Minutes 2008-11-10/IRC

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Nov 10 20:27:16 *	Now talking on #wikimedia-uk-board
Nov 10 20:27:16 *	Topic for #wikimedia-uk-board is: The next Wikimedia UK board meeting is Monday at 8.30pm UTC | Only board members are voiced. If you wish to make a comment, please use #wikimedia-uk. | Channel will be publicly logged during board meeting
Nov 10 20:27:16 *	Topic for #wikimedia-uk-board set by KTC at Tue Nov 04 22:49:25 2008
Nov 10 20:27:17 *	ChanServ gives voice to KTC
Nov 10 20:27:20 *	AndrewRT (n=chatzill@ has joined #wikimedia-uk-board
Nov 10 20:27:20 *	ChanServ gives voice to AndrewRT
Nov 10 20:27:31 <AndrewRT>	hi all
Nov 10 20:27:37 <mpeel>	good evening
Nov 10 20:27:39 <KTC>	hi
Nov 10 20:27:46 <mpeel>	are you back from spain now?
Nov 10 20:27:58 *	ChanServ gives channel operator status to KTC
Nov 10 20:28:14 <Warofdreams>	hi
Nov 10 20:28:16 *	KTC sets mode +m #wikimedia-uk-board
Nov 10 20:28:22 *	ChanServ removes channel operator status from KTC
Nov 10 20:28:33 <AndrewRT>	yep flew back in last night
Nov 10 20:28:51 <KTC>	shall we begin?
Nov 10 20:29:10 <mpeel>	ok
Nov 10 20:29:14 <Warofdreams>	I see that we are all here
Nov 10 20:29:26 <KTC>	http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK_v2.0/Board_meetings/2008-11-10/Agenda
Nov 10 20:29:44 <KTC>	with minutes of last meeting at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK_v2.0/Board_meetings/2008-11-04
Nov 10 20:29:55 <KTC>	any correction?
Nov 10 20:30:31 <cfp>	hi all.
Nov 10 20:30:48 <mpeel>	looks fine to me
Nov 10 20:30:52 <AndrewRT>	none from me!
Nov 10 20:31:05 <AndrewRT>	thanks for getting on with everything in my absense :)
Nov 10 20:31:29 <mpeel>	agenda seems to be missing company formation...
Nov 10 20:31:30 <cfp>	looks fine.
Nov 10 20:31:37 <Warofdreams>	and thanks for feeding back on the bank account, even while you were on holiday :)
Nov 10 20:31:41 <KTC>	4.1 expenses claim form then
Nov 10 20:32:04 <KTC>	mpeel, i thought of that after i wrote the agenda, i um thought we'll just fit it in somewhere later on :)
Nov 10 20:32:06 <AndrewRT>	no probs
Nov 10 20:32:23 <cfp>	mpeel you happy with them now?
Nov 10 20:32:32 <Warofdreams>	expenses claim form - they generally look good
Nov 10 20:32:54 <Warofdreams>	just the instructions on signing at the bottom don't seem to quite match what we agreed
Nov 10 20:32:59 <mpeel>	cfp: yup. Thanks for taking the time to implement my suggestions.
Nov 10 20:33:20 <Warofdreams>	it says that the treasurer has to sign them all off, and the chair additionally signs any over £100
Nov 10 20:33:37 <Warofdreams>	whereas we suggested the treasurer or chair signs off (but not their own)
Nov 10 20:33:52 <Warofdreams>	and any over £100 require an additional signatory
Nov 10 20:34:11 <cfp>	yup but if you put in the treasurer's name
Nov 10 20:34:17 <cfp>	then it uses the chair's in the second box
Nov 10 20:34:23 <cfp>	and the secretary's in third
Nov 10 20:34:33 <Warofdreams>	ah.  that's very good.
Nov 10 20:34:42 <AndrewRT>	impressive!
Nov 10 20:34:46 <cfp>	and if you put in the chair's name it uses the treasurer's in the second and the secretary's in the third
Nov 10 20:35:00 <KTC>	:)
Nov 10 20:35:02 <mpeel>	only problem with that is: if we want to put someone else's name in for the second box, then they'll appear as treasurer on the form...
Nov 10 20:35:19 <mpeel>	unless I've misunderstood how you change the name.
Nov 10 20:35:20 <Warofdreams>	presumably then, we can edit it if we want a different combination, for example if someone is away.
Nov 10 20:35:32 <cfp>	yeah it's not hard to just shove in name in there instead
Nov 10 20:35:42 <cfp>	it's just optimised for what will happen 99% of the time
Nov 10 20:36:04 <Warofdreams>	that's great then.  Good work!
Nov 10 20:36:30 <KTC>	r we happy with it then ? :)
Nov 10 20:36:47 <mpeel>	Tango42 raised one issue...
Nov 10 20:36:59 <cfp>	oh whether we can legally refund bike costs
Nov 10 20:37:06 <mpeel>	yup
Nov 10 20:37:20 <AndrewRT>	I suggest we go with the HMRC rates
Nov 10 20:37:20 <cfp>	someone justified it through "maintenance costs"
Nov 10 20:37:43 <AndrewRT>	otherwise the person receiving the payment may have to be taxed as a benefit in kind
Nov 10 20:38:02 <cfp>	which are?
Nov 10 20:38:05 <Warofdreams>	do you know what the HMRC rates are?
Nov 10 20:38:13 <AndrewRT>	Rates are here: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/RATES/travel.htm
Nov 10 20:38:26 *	schiste (n=schiste@80.101.89-79.rev.gaoland.net) has joined #wikimedia-uk-board
Nov 10 20:38:33 <cfp>	oh 20p for bikes
Nov 10 20:38:33 <AndrewRT>	i should say HMRC rates or lower
Nov 10 20:38:45 <KTC>	bikes!
Nov 10 20:39:10 <AndrewRT>	huh?
Nov 10 20:39:30 <KTC>	that answer the question whether we can pay for bikes :)
Nov 10 20:39:33 <KTC>	that's all :)
Nov 10 20:39:40 <mpeel>	yup
Nov 10 20:39:44 <cfp>	that's an easy change. it looks up the bike rate from a cell
Nov 10 20:39:56 <Warofdreams>	great
Nov 10 20:40:00 <cfp>	i'll add passenger payments too
Nov 10 20:40:03 <mpeel>	perhaps motor cycles should be added to the form too?
Nov 10 20:40:12 <cfp>	i hsould have thought to google that page before
Nov 10 20:40:14 <cfp>	yup will do
Nov 10 20:42:01 <KTC>	anything else on this?
Nov 10 20:42:01 <Warofdreams>	ok, on to bank account
Nov 10 20:42:30 <AndrewRT>	Tom emailed me regarding the Mem&Arts
Nov 10 20:42:44 <cfp>	in short: i've not done much on it. but i think we should wait to hear back from chap com before sending anything off
Nov 10 20:42:44 <AndrewRT>	I've arranged to get a copy certified by an accountant friend
Nov 10 20:42:59 <AndrewRT>	we'll sort it tomorrow and then shall i send to sfp?
Nov 10 20:43:04 <AndrewRT>	cfp?
Nov 10 20:43:30 <cfp>	great thanks a lot
Nov 10 20:43:40 <AndrewRT>	have u got the forms?
Nov 10 20:43:52 <cfp>	i'll also need the details mentioned in my email from everyone else (Andrew's sent them already)
Nov 10 20:43:59 <cfp>	yeah i have the forms
Nov 10 20:44:11 <mpeel>	do we all need to be in the same place to sign the application for the bank account?
Nov 10 20:44:35 <mpeel>	I didn't realise you wanted the details emailing - will send you mine after the meeting.
Nov 10 20:45:47 <cfp>	no i wasn't really expecting them then, more letting everyone know what was needed
Nov 10 20:45:49 <AndrewRT>	who needs to sign the application?
Nov 10 20:46:03 <cfp>	but unless anyone has come up with reasons why we don't want the coop?
Nov 10 20:46:07 <mpeel>	everyone who needs to be a signatory
Nov 10 20:46:11 <cfp>	everyone.
Nov 10 20:46:24 <cfp>	no i think ktc'd have to sign it too
Nov 10 20:46:30 <cfp>	i'll double check. one sec.
Nov 10 20:48:20 <mpeel>	if he's not a signatory, then wouldn't he be "priciple personnel", which doesn't need to be signed?
Nov 10 20:48:27 <mpeel>	* principal
Nov 10 20:50:33 <KTC>	cfp? still here?
Nov 10 20:52:20 <cfp>	yes mpeel's right
Nov 10 20:52:25 <cfp>	sorry my computer was dieing
Nov 10 20:52:49 <cfp>	ktc wouldn't have to sign anything unless he wanted to be a signatory
Nov 10 20:53:16 <Warofdreams>	and do we need four signatories?
Nov 10 20:53:46 <AndrewRT>	i suggest three would be enough - or even two
Nov 10 20:53:54 <AndrewRT>	how often would we be writing cheques?
Nov 10 20:53:57 <cfp>	it's up to you.
Nov 10 20:54:11 <KTC>	at this stage, prob not very often
Nov 10 20:54:16 <KTC>	later on, maybe more often
Nov 10 20:54:22 <cfp>	the signatories page is the only one that has to be signed by multiple people (the other ones could just be sent as individual pages)
Nov 10 20:54:31 <mpeel>	is it just for writing cheques that you need to be a signatory for?
Nov 10 20:54:33 <cfp>	"individual people" i mean
Nov 10 20:54:39 <KTC>	later on being after AGM and when we're doing (more) things
Nov 10 20:54:41 <mpeel>	is it not also for e.g. paying into the account?
Nov 10 20:54:45 <cfp>	well and getting online access i imagine
Nov 10 20:54:56 <AndrewRT>	We have two signatories for the expenses claims - would make sense to have the same two people as signatories
Nov 10 20:54:58 <cfp>	anyone can pay into any account
Nov 10 20:55:11 <KTC>	mpeel, what bank have you been to that ask for paying in account to be a member of that account ? :D
Nov 10 20:55:16 <cfp>	but certainly only the signatories can get money out
Nov 10 20:55:40 <mpeel>	I've never needed to pay into someone else's bank account. Just wanted to make sure.
Nov 10 20:55:57 <Warofdreams>	cfp: or someone with a written letter of authorisation from a signatory and ID.
Nov 10 20:57:13 <KTC>	so
Nov 10 20:57:21 <KTC>	what we deciding on this?
Nov 10 20:57:32 <mpeel>	who needs to be a signatory?
Nov 10 20:57:38 <cfp>	i'm not sure how they'd look on having ktc as a signatory
Nov 10 20:57:42 <Warofdreams>	having more signatories can be useful
Nov 10 20:57:46 <cfp>	if he didn't want to give the full information
Nov 10 20:57:59 <cfp>	though there's nothing in the form that explicitly forbids it
Nov 10 20:58:02 <Warofdreams>	when we desperately need to get a cheque signed to pay for something
Nov 10 20:58:18 <KTC>	Warofdreams, the cheque book is with one person anyway... 
Nov 10 20:58:34 <mpeel>	you can get multiple cheque books, can't you?
Nov 10 20:58:39 <Warofdreams>	yes
Nov 10 20:58:44 <KTC>	cfp, it's not i don't want to, it's just it may just be easier, though should be okay anyway
Nov 10 20:59:22 <Warofdreams>	I suggest that two to four signatories would be ideal
Nov 10 20:59:30 <AndrewRT>	How about three then?
Nov 10 20:59:44 <cfp>	and then which of the options? requiring all of them? requiring any two? requiring just one?
Nov 10 20:59:55 <Warofdreams>	not requiring all of them
Nov 10 21:00:04 <Warofdreams>	requiring two is good for higher amounts
Nov 10 21:00:11 <AndrewRT>	I suggest any two of three or any one of three below £100 (if teh bank allows this)
Nov 10 21:00:48 <mpeel>	the form allows 1, 2, all, one or more, or other combination.
Nov 10 21:00:51 <cfp>	well there's an "other combination" option, but i very much doubt they have the systems in place to enforce such things
Nov 10 21:01:07 <cfp>	so i'd suggest we stick to 1,2 or all
Nov 10 21:01:15 <Warofdreams>	cfp: in my experience, they are formally quite strict on the rules
Nov 10 21:01:27 <Warofdreams>	although they don't always check the signatures are actually who they are supposed to be
Nov 10 21:01:30 <mpeel>	I'd suggest 2 - all would give logistical problems, 1 would be a bit of a hazard.
Nov 10 21:01:44 <cfp>	ok everyone happy with 2?
Nov 10 21:01:53 <KTC>	*nod*
Nov 10 21:01:54 <mpeel>	Tango42: I strongly advise against ever having single signatories, it's a significant risk
Nov 10 21:01:54 <mpeel>	[21:01] Tango42: All someone has to do to empty the account is write several cheques for £99
Nov 10 21:02:22 <AndrewRT>	ok how about 2 of 3
Nov 10 21:02:35 <cfp>	so, me, andrew and ?
Nov 10 21:02:44 <cfp>	we could try ktc see if they raise an objection?
Nov 10 21:02:47 <Warofdreams>	whoever can make a meeting to sing the forms?
Nov 10 21:02:52 <Warofdreams>	*sign
Nov 10 21:03:02 <KTC>	whatever, but living closer may be ideal
Nov 10 21:03:05 <cfp>	like i said the form doesn't explicitly require all signatories to have completed section 5
Nov 10 21:03:11 <mpeel>	would they raise an objection, or just reject the application?
Nov 10 21:03:31 <cfp>	there are no indications they'd do either
Nov 10 21:03:32 <KTC>	cfp, is these forms online?
Nov 10 21:03:40 <cfp>	yeah, as a pdf
Nov 10 21:03:46 <KTC>	link? :)
Nov 10 21:04:03 <cfp>	http://www.co-operativebank.co.uk/cfscombi/pdf/CFS_COMMAPP_WEB.pdf
Nov 10 21:04:08 <Warofdreams>	why not open the account with signatories who are confident that there will be no problem; we can always add KTC afterwards - that way, in the unlikely event there is an issue
Nov 10 21:04:14 <Warofdreams>	it won't affect us opening the account
Nov 10 21:04:21 <KTC>	ty cfp
Nov 10 21:04:32 <cfp>	yeah ok that sounds sensible.
Nov 10 21:04:47 <cfp>	so perhaps just andrew and i initially?
Nov 10 21:05:14 <cfp>	it would remove the need for a meeting to sign the forms
Nov 10 21:05:26 <KTC>	how come?
Nov 10 21:05:42 <KTC>	doesn't andrew need to sign it ?
Nov 10 21:06:12 <cfp>	i'd just post it to him
Nov 10 21:06:32 <cfp>	would be rather more efficient than meeting...
Nov 10 21:06:43 <AndrewRT>	makes sense as I'd need to post the Mem&ARts to you anyway
Nov 10 21:07:00 <KTC>	just make sure u agree on who's posting the thing ;)
Nov 10 21:07:23 <KTC>	so u don't both try and mail each other the forms ;)
Nov 10 21:07:25 <cfp>	i think we can handle that.
Nov 10 21:07:38 <KTC>	right, anything else ?
Nov 10 21:07:40 <cfp>	so are we agreed on me and andrew being the initial signatories
Nov 10 21:07:48 <mpeel>	sounds fine to me
Nov 10 21:07:53 <AndrewRT>	im ok with that
Nov 10 21:08:15 <cfp>	then actually, rather than e-mailing me your bank details
Nov 10 21:08:26 <Warofdreams>	yes, that's fine; we should add another signatory soon after
Nov 10 21:08:32 <cfp>	if you could all (except ktc) print out the "section 5" page
Nov 10 21:08:38 <cfp>	fill it in, and email it to me
Nov 10 21:08:51 <cfp>	@ Holywell Manor, Manor Road, Oxford, OX1 3UH
Nov 10 21:08:54 <cfp>	not e-mail, post
Nov 10 21:09:13 <cfp>	and if KTC could do the same thing with the "section 7" page
Nov 10 21:09:16 <AndrewRT>	do we have to sign that page too?
Nov 10 21:09:24 <cfp>	yeah
Nov 10 21:10:00 <cfp>	i'll sort out the signatories page privately with andrew later.
Nov 10 21:10:08 <cfp>	actually ktc doesn't need to do anything at all
Nov 10 21:10:31 <AndrewRT>	ok
Nov 10 21:10:32 <cfp>	(since the section 7 page doesn't require a signature as we noted above, though i will need his address etc)
Nov 10 21:10:42 <cfp>	is that clear?
Nov 10 21:10:48 <mpeel>	ok
Nov 10 21:10:54 <KTC>	huh, what's the difference between section 5 & 7 apart from a sig?
Nov 10 21:11:59 <mpeel>	"If you have more than four Directors/Designated Members, a minimum of four must complete this section [section 5]"
Nov 10 21:12:06 <mpeel>	so 4 people must sign section 5
Nov 10 21:12:16 <cfp>	yes. all but ktc
Nov 10 21:12:28 <cfp>	if you sign section 5 you'll be credit checked
Nov 10 21:12:28 <mpeel>	the 5th I guess can get away with just having their info in section 7
Nov 10 21:13:06 <cfp>	ktc seems to have the most concerns over their record, and hence it makes sense for him to not sign section 5
Nov 10 21:13:28 <KTC>	i have a concern over a certain bank, but yeah okay
Nov 10 21:13:43 <cfp>	yeah but banks share records
Nov 10 21:14:51 <KTC>	okay, next on the agenda if we all happy ?
Nov 10 21:15:00 <mpeel>	cfp: for paying into the bank account, do I just need to take cheques/cash into a branch of a co-operative, and fill in a form that they have there, or do I need something beforehand?
Nov 10 21:15:05 <AndrewRT>	im happy
Nov 10 21:15:18 <Warofdreams>	they should send us a paying in book
Nov 10 21:15:25 <cfp>	so you can pay in by bacs, or just take a cheque to a post office or branch
Nov 10 21:15:40 <AndrewRT>	hopefully we can post cheques - thats what i normally do with my coop personal account
Nov 10 21:16:30 <mpeel>	which is it? paying in book required, or just the cheque/cash?
Nov 10 21:16:38 <KTC>	right, 4.3?
Nov 10 21:16:40 <cfp>	paying in books are never required
Nov 10 21:16:48 <cfp>	they're just conveniences.
Nov 10 21:16:48 <mpeel>	ok, thanks
Nov 10 21:17:08 <Warofdreams>	cfp: yes.  very convenient for our records!
Nov 10 21:17:09 <AndrewRT>	4.3 is partly me
Nov 10 21:17:14 <mpeel>	just wanted to be clear on that, as I guess I'll be the one paying most of the money in to start with, from membership...
Nov 10 21:17:38 <cfp>	well i'll make sure you get a book of paying in slips
Nov 10 21:17:57 <mpeel>	great, thanks
Nov 10 21:18:19 <cfp>	(i expect everything will be sent to andrew as his address is the registered business one)
Nov 10 21:19:29 <mpeel>	sorry, one last query with the bank account - is no ID from us required to submit the application form?
Nov 10 21:20:55 <KTC>	i persume they do a check against Compaines House for the list of Directors & credit reference agency for address check (at the minimum)
Nov 10 21:21:27 <cfp>	yeah. application is by post
Nov 10 21:21:35 <cfp>	so if it's not mentioned on that form they don't need it
Nov 10 21:21:49 <cfp>	(and it's not mentioned on that form unless i missed something)
Nov 10 21:22:30 <mpeel>	ok, thanks.
Nov 10 21:22:35 <mpeel>	section 4.3, then?
Nov 10 21:22:40 <KTC>	yes please! :)
Nov 10 21:22:43 <KTC>	andrew?
Nov 10 21:22:44 <AndrewRT>	shall i respond?
Nov 10 21:22:52 <AndrewRT>	Per Michael Bimmler (ChapCom member): I drafted a resolution which is at the moment in the voting phase. This is usually a sign that things will move pretty quickly (though I won't commit myself to any specific date right now). If you don't hear anything from us by Friday, please feel free to poke someone
Nov 10 21:22:53 >cfp<	i emailed you
Nov 10 21:22:54 <AndrewRT>	Michael Bimmler has also posted a good explanation of the process on the emailing list - did everyone read this - http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediauk-l/2008-November/003071.html
Nov 10 21:23:08 <cfp>	NB. Each additional named individual must complete Section 7. No proof of identity or address is required.
Nov 10 21:23:30 <cfp>	(i quote)
Nov 10 21:23:41 <mpeel>	AndrewRT: is the standard Chapters Agreement available online anywhere?
Nov 10 21:24:02 <AndrewRT>	i haven't see it anywhere
Nov 10 21:24:51 <cfp>	<Tango42> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Agreement_between_chapters_and_Wikimedia_Foundation
Nov 10 21:24:52 <mpeel>	http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Agreement_between_chapters_and_Wikimedia_Foundation
Nov 10 21:24:53 <Warofdreams>	Tango42>	http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Agreement_between_chapters_and_Wikimedia_Foundation
Nov 10 21:24:58 <Warofdreams>	:)
Nov 10 21:25:01 <mpeel>	:)
Nov 10 21:26:19 <AndrewRT>	Shall we all read this before teh next meeting and then discuss it then?
Nov 10 21:26:28 <KTC>	okay
Nov 10 21:26:47 <mpeel>	ok
Nov 10 21:27:17 <AndrewRT>	if we are ok with the standard agreement we wont need to negotiate with the Foundation beyond being apporved as a chapter
Nov 10 21:27:25 <KTC>	um
Nov 10 21:27:33 <KTC>	there's Tango's email list suggestion
Nov 10 21:27:50 <KTC>	Tango42> did people see my suggestions on the mailing list? 1) Get permission to use Wikimedia England, etc. in addition to Wikimedia UK and 2) Clarify meaning of "commercial"
Nov 10 21:27:58 <AndrewRT>	yes shall we discuss that too next time?
Nov 10 21:28:01 <Warofdreams>	I certainly agree with point 1)
Nov 10 21:28:28 <Warofdreams>	could discuss this next time
Nov 10 21:28:40 <cfp>	it seems we all agree on 1
Nov 10 21:28:45 <mpeel>	we should probably hold off discussion of this until we WMF gets in contact with us about it...
Nov 10 21:28:53 <AndrewRT>	i'd personally like an opportunity to read it all through first
Nov 10 21:28:58 <cfp>	though if it's going to cause major issues it may not be worth arguing over it.
Nov 10 21:29:00 <mpeel>	we can't really do much until then anyway.
Nov 10 21:29:01 <cfp>	sure.
Nov 10 21:29:05 <KTC>	right, next!
Nov 10 21:29:23 <Warofdreams>	Membership Rules
Nov 10 21:29:30 <mpeel>	still at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK_v2.0/Membership
Nov 10 21:29:46 <AndrewRT>	did we get much response from the message posted out?
Nov 10 21:30:03 <mpeel>	there were some responses at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_UK_v2.0/Membership#Membership_fee
Nov 10 21:30:30 <mpeel>	mostly from Tango42 and User:RexxS
Nov 10 21:30:51 <AndrewRT>	The core issues are do we charge and do we charge now
Nov 10 21:30:58 <AndrewRT>	(i think)
Nov 10 21:31:12 <AndrewRT>	i'm not sure whether there's a consensus on either
Nov 10 21:31:44 <mpeel>	I think that the only person that doesn't think we should charge from the start is cfp; please correct me if I'm wrong.
Nov 10 21:32:56 <AndrewRT>	How many people have expressed a definite view one way or another?
Nov 10 21:33:03 <cfp>	i've made my arguments in the past.
Nov 10 21:33:20 <cfp>	i'm not sure i've convinced anyone though, so perhaps it's time for me to shut up
Nov 10 21:33:45 <mpeel>	AndrewRT and Tango42, I think.
Nov 10 21:34:09 <cfp>	the major issue as i see it is access: we don't want to disuade people from joining now because of the cost who would otherwise have joined and then campaigned at the agm for low fees
Nov 10 21:34:45 <mpeel>	I think that we have three options: wait and see if we get any more feedback before the next meeting (I only sent around the notice a few days ago), set up a definitive poll asking for people's votes on options, or make a decision amongst us.
Nov 10 21:35:16 <KTC>	looking at the rate of response, i'll go with the latter 2 options
Nov 10 21:35:38 <Warofdreams>	I suspect that a definitive poll wouldn't get a much greater response
Nov 10 21:36:37 <Warofdreams>	mpeel: you posted the notice around, do you feel that you are likely to get more feedback soon?
Nov 10 21:36:41 <AndrewRT>	If we do charge then we have until teh bank account is opened to make a decision - so we can take our time a bit
Nov 10 21:36:54 <cfp>	with this level of interest we're going to struggle to make quorum even without a fee
Nov 10 21:37:06 <cfp>	yeah i guess.
Nov 10 21:37:11 <cfp>	so defer another week?
Nov 10 21:37:26 <mpeel>	in the same notice, I mentioned the newsletter, with a link to the subscription page. That's been pretty busy, while the members rules page hasn't.
Nov 10 21:37:38 <KTC>	we really have to wait till WMF approve us anyway, as we'll have problem accepting members and then they ask us to change our constitiution
Nov 10 21:37:40 <AndrewRT>	thats interesting
Nov 10 21:37:44 <mpeel>	from that, I'd draw one of two conclusions: people either aren't interested, or they're taking their time to read the page
Nov 10 21:38:17 <Warofdreams>	or a third option: they are happy with it being free or having a reasonable fee, and don't care too much either way
Nov 10 21:38:20 <mpeel>	I suggest that we make a preliminary decision today, state that, and see whether anyone disagrees.
Nov 10 21:38:26 *	schiste has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
Nov 10 21:39:04 <KTC>	let's go with that
Nov 10 21:39:31 <AndrewRT>	i like mpeel's suggestion
Nov 10 21:40:10 <Warofdreams>	i also like mpeel's suggestion
Nov 10 21:40:30 <mpeel>	my feeling is that £10 standard, £5 consessions, is about right - with optional donations via the same form if people want to give us more.
Nov 10 21:41:02 <KTC>	that seems reasonable, and i like it :)
Nov 10 21:41:07 <AndrewRT>	i think the fee should be set to cover admin costs of around £500 per year
Nov 10 21:41:19 <cfp>	concessions for students and unemployed?
Nov 10 21:41:20 <AndrewRT>	how many people do you think will join up?
Nov 10 21:41:44 <mpeel>	cfp: the standard is students and oaps, I believe.
Nov 10 21:42:07 <mpeel>	Tango42 said on the talk page "under 18's, full time students and OAPs"
Nov 10 21:42:29 <KTC>	that's the standard meaning i think
Nov 10 21:42:39 <Warofdreams>	i quite like the suggestion to make it multiples of £12 for easier direct debits (at some point in the future) - so it could be £12 standard, £6 concessions
Nov 10 21:42:39 <mpeel>	AndrewRT: will admin costs be that high, and can't we cover some of that with donations?
Nov 10 21:42:57 <Warofdreams>	and we could note that it is "£1/50p month"
Nov 10 21:43:29 <mpeel>	I have no problems with that, but would note that the fee can be introduced in the future if we (WMUK2) want.
Nov 10 21:43:33 <AndrewRT>	mpeel: £500 is a generous bedget to allow for accounts preparation, hiring a room for the AGM, filing fees etc
Nov 10 21:43:42 <cfp>	nah i think unemployed are normally counted as well for charities. (at least they are for e.g. political parties)
Nov 10 21:44:17 <AndrewRT>	i think unemployed should get concessions
Nov 10 21:44:19 <cfp>	£12/£6 does seem sensible
Nov 10 21:44:29 <AndrewRT>	i agree with £12/£6
Nov 10 21:44:58 <KTC>	i didn't think political parties were charity. the one i'm a member of just take a token amount for under i think 25, or was it 30
Nov 10 21:45:02 <KTC>	*shrug*
Nov 10 21:45:26 <KTC>	AndrewRT, just note that it might be raise later
Nov 10 21:45:27 <mpeel>	ok, so £12 standard, £6 for under 18's, full time students, unemployed and OAPs, then?
Nov 10 21:45:31 <KTC>	12/6 seems reasonable atm
Nov 10 21:45:34 <AndrewRT>	wiki germany has 440 member each paying EUR24
Nov 10 21:46:12 <KTC>	a future board will have a better idea on how much is needed base on membership numebrs / cost etc
Nov 10 21:46:27 <mpeel>	next issue: should board members pay the membership fees?
Nov 10 21:46:34 <AndrewRT>	i suggest the AGM each year should vote on the fees
Nov 10 21:46:37 <mpeel>	(my feeling: definitely yes)
Nov 10 21:46:48 <cfp>	yes certainly
Nov 10 21:46:52 <AndrewRT>	mpeel: yes - Board members must be members, why not?
Nov 10 21:46:56 *	schiste (n=schiste@80.101.89-79.rev.gaoland.net) has joined #wikimedia-uk-board
Nov 10 21:47:21 <Warofdreams>	yes
Nov 10 21:47:38 <KTC>	good good, next issue ?
Nov 10 21:47:59 <mpeel>	At some point I'll need everyone's details for the Register of Members.
Nov 10 21:48:17 <KTC>	remind us what details are needed exactly
Nov 10 21:48:43 <mpeel>	see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK_v2.0/Membership ...
Nov 10 21:48:57 <AndrewRT>	mpeel; I've drawn up a Register of Members for us 5 already
Nov 10 21:49:06 <AndrewRT>	based on teh info on the form 10
Nov 10 21:49:08 <mpeel>	oh, ok.
Nov 10 21:49:12 <KTC>	great
Nov 10 21:49:15 <mpeel>	could I please have a copy of it, then?
Nov 10 21:49:19 <KTC>	4.5 Newsletter
Nov 10 21:50:36 <AndrewRT>	KTC: can i raise this later?
Nov 10 21:50:43 <KTC>	ok
Nov 10 21:50:46 <AndrewRT>	registers i mean
Nov 10 21:51:04 <mpeel>	Newsletter: I've started a series of pages for it at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK_v2.0/Newsletter
Nov 10 21:51:22 <mpeel>	subscribers list is at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK_v2.0/Newsletter/Subscribers - and has a fair few names already.
Nov 10 21:51:25 <KTC>	can we all work on it for next week?
Nov 10 21:51:42 <AndrewRT>	Looks good - does the Board need to approve each newsletter or can we discuss it offline and mandate someone to send uit out when ready?
Nov 10 21:51:46 <mpeel>	I've started putting together a newsletter at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK_v2.0/Newsletter/November2008 but it needs fleshing out.
Nov 10 21:51:56 <Warofdreams>	I'd be happy to take the lead on that
Nov 10 21:52:06 <Warofdreams>	although it makes a good collaborative project
Nov 10 21:52:20 <mpeel>	Warofdreams: great, it needs a designated editor.
Nov 10 21:52:25 <Warofdreams>	it seems a logical part of being Communications Officer
Nov 10 21:52:30 <AndrewRT>	yes indeed!
Nov 10 21:52:55 <mpeel>	Some sections will probably come from specific people - e.g. Members from myself.
Nov 10 21:53:23 <KTC>	if we all agree to work on it, next then :)
Nov 10 21:53:29 <AndrewRT>	shall we set a deadline?
Nov 10 21:53:39 <mpeel>	are we happy for Warofdreams to say when it should go out to everyone?
Nov 10 21:54:20 <KTC>	yes
Nov 10 21:54:23 <AndrewRT>	ok
Nov 10 21:54:42 <mpeel>	BTW, I've decided to hold off getting bot approval for this for a short while. The first issue or two I'll manually distribute, to make sure everything works smoothly.
Nov 10 21:54:52 <cfp>	k.
Nov 10 21:55:01 <Warofdreams>	I'm just wondering when - either soon, or not until the end of the month, or December's issue will be awkward
Nov 10 21:55:01 <KTC>	4.6 Business plan (for the bank account), have we got one ?
Nov 10 21:55:03 <AndrewRT>	thanks for working on this mpeel
Nov 10 21:55:22 <cfp>	i meant to do it over the weekend
Nov 10 21:55:26 <AndrewRT>	warofdreams - i suggest Friday
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Nov 10 21:55:37 <cfp>	but this fortnights turning out kind of busy.
Nov 10 21:55:48 <KTC>	ok
Nov 10 21:55:53 <AndrewRT>	how soon do you think you could do it cfp?
Nov 10 21:56:23 <cfp>	well i'm sure i'll have it done by the time we've heard back from chapcom, collected all the bank account bits of gumph etc etc
Nov 10 21:56:47 <AndrewRT>	ok should the Board approve it before it is sent to the coop?
Nov 10 21:56:48 <cfp>	it's not on the critical path at the moment.
Nov 10 21:56:52 <cfp>	yes certainly
Nov 10 21:56:58 <AndrewRT>	ok
Nov 10 21:56:59 <Warofdreams>	ok, lets aim for 14th for the newsletter to be ready
Nov 10 21:57:12 <KTC>	ok on that Warofdreams 
Nov 10 21:57:22 <KTC>	make that an action in the minutes, and moving on to 4.7 then
Nov 10 21:57:26 <KTC>	(plan)
Nov 10 21:57:35 <KTC>	WER Ltd.
Nov 10 21:57:38 <KTC>	we got a response
Nov 10 21:57:44 <AndrewRT>	excellent!
Nov 10 21:57:46 <cfp>	i'll try and get a business plan done next weekend. failing that, thursday/friday next week.
Nov 10 21:57:53 <AndrewRT>	thx cfp
Nov 10 21:58:27 <Warofdreams>	yes, Allison replied on WER Ltd and has offered to write to the Foundation to confirm their situation, if it would be useful for us
Nov 10 21:58:43 <KTC>	and she don't think it's an issue anyhow
Nov 10 21:58:50 <AndrewRT>	does WER have anything that may be useful for us?
Nov 10 21:58:53 <AndrewRT>	webiste?
Nov 10 21:58:57 <AndrewRT>	membership list?
Nov 10 21:58:59 <AndrewRT>	funds?
Nov 10 21:59:06 <KTC>	the domain belong to an individual
Nov 10 21:59:14 <AndrewRT>	who?
Nov 10 21:59:18 <KTC>	they don't have any funds as far as i know
Nov 10 21:59:20 <mpeel>	funds: last I heard, it didn't have enough to cover expenses.
Nov 10 21:59:28 <Warofdreams>	website would be good to get control of, and I think we could negotiate that quite easily
Nov 10 21:59:39 <mpeel>	"The chapter's domain, presently registered to James F., is http://wikimedia.org.uk/ and all chapter email and websites are under this domain."
Nov 10 22:00:00 <mpeel>	"The following domains also exist but are not used nor controlled by the Chapter in any way.
Nov 10 22:00:01 <mpeel>	    * http://wikipedia.co.uk - owned by Bomis, redirect to the English Wikipedia
Nov 10 22:00:01 <mpeel>	    * http://wikipedia.org.uk - owned by Chris Brooking, redirect to the English Wikipedia
Nov 10 22:00:01 <mpeel>	    * http://wikimedia.co.uk - owned by James F., non-responsive on port 80
Nov 10 22:00:34 <KTC>	James F. have previously agreed to let us use the domain as WER have done
Nov 10 22:00:52 <AndrewRT>	thx mpeel can we mandate someone to approach James F and get control over these
Nov 10 22:01:02 <Warofdreams>	membership: they have very few members, as they haven't actively been letting people know that they can join
Nov 10 22:01:03 <mpeel>	WMUK should really be formally in charge of the domain, rather than it being in the hands of an individual.
Nov 10 22:01:05 <KTC>	but is holding on being the registrant until someone (WMF?) decide on what they want to do with chapters / local domains
Nov 10 22:01:31 <AndrewRT>	mpeel: i agree but maybe we should wait a while to get more established first
Nov 10 22:01:39 <mpeel>	AndrewRT: yes, indeed.
Nov 10 22:02:00 <mpeel>	let's become an official chapter first, then sort out the domain names.
Nov 10 22:02:32 <KTC>	right, 4.8 Incorporation (I updated the agenda since we started the meeting)
Nov 10 22:02:37 <AndrewRT>	ok
Nov 10 22:02:38 <mpeel>	membership: we can request a copy of their Register of Members if we want.
Nov 10 22:03:12 <AndrewRT>	mpeel: might be a good idea shall i take that as an action?
Nov 10 22:03:12 <mpeel>	sorry: that doesn't really need to be discussed. 4.8.
Nov 10 22:03:31 <AndrewRT>	4.8 this was a point i asked for
Nov 10 22:03:46 <AndrewRT>	First - as you all now we were incorporated last Wednesday!
Nov 10 22:03:59 <AndrewRT>	Companies House managed to do it in two working days
Nov 10 22:04:06 <AndrewRT>	rather than the 5-10 they advertise
Nov 10 22:04:08 <mpeel>	do you have the official paperwork?
Nov 10 22:04:17 <mpeel>	(and wohoo!)
Nov 10 22:04:32 <AndrewRT>	Yes teh certificate of incorporation was waiting for me when i got back from Spiain
Nov 10 22:04:47 <AndrewRT>	Can I raise two points
Nov 10 22:04:51 <AndrewRT>	First - registers
Nov 10 22:05:14 <AndrewRT>	I've put together a set of official registers for me to keep at the resgistered office
Nov 10 22:05:32 <AndrewRT>	comprises a register of Members, register of Directors, Secretaries and charges
Nov 10 22:05:43 <mpeel>	charges?
Nov 10 22:05:45 <AndrewRT>	all teh details come from the form 10 previously signed
Nov 10 22:06:01 <AndrewRT>	charges - if we decide to mortgage any of our assets - currently none!
Nov 10 22:06:17 <AndrewRT>	suggestion for register of members
Nov 10 22:07:01 <AndrewRT>	we keep a signle spreadsheet where columns A:G are the officiakl register available for inspection
Nov 10 22:07:07 <AndrewRT>	with names, addresses ets
Nov 10 22:07:11 <AndrewRT>	etc
Nov 10 22:07:40 <AndrewRT>	and have columns H onwards with additional info like project Usernames, email addresses etc
Nov 10 22:07:48 <AndrewRT>	that the mem sec will need
Nov 10 22:08:13 <mpeel>	as the "Rules" page stands, we won't be collecting project usernames.
Nov 10 22:08:18 <AndrewRT>	in the unlikely event someone requests a copy we just need to remember to only provide columns A:G
Nov 10 22:08:28 <AndrewRT>	i thought it was optional?
Nov 10 22:09:01 <cfp>	i think we decided to not even ask for them
Nov 10 22:09:05 <cfp>	ignorance is bliss
Nov 10 22:09:05 <mpeel>	I think we decided during the last meeting that they weren't necessary.
Nov 10 22:09:08 <cfp>	(in this case)
Nov 10 22:09:14 <AndrewRT>	i didnt' see those changes
Nov 10 22:09:20 <AndrewRT>	ok that makes it easier
Nov 10 22:09:44 <AndrewRT>	one thing on registers
Nov 10 22:10:00 <AndrewRT>	please can everyone remember to please let me know ASAP if you move house
Nov 10 22:10:13 <AndrewRT>	i need to update companies House within 14 days!
Nov 10 22:11:04 <AndrewRT>	ok other thing i wanted to mention quickly
Nov 10 22:11:13 <mpeel>	one point with registers...
Nov 10 22:11:21 <AndrewRT>	go on
Nov 10 22:11:35 <mpeel>	the master copy of the register of members has to be with the secretary unless we tell companies house otherwise
Nov 10 22:11:40 <mpeel>	but I'll be making most of the changes to it
Nov 10 22:11:46 <AndrewRT>	yes thanks for raising this
Nov 10 22:12:05 <mpeel>	I assume I'll hold a copy, and email it to you regularly so that it becomes the master copy?
Nov 10 22:12:13 <AndrewRT>	are all membership changes going to be approved by teh Board?
Nov 10 22:12:32 <mpeel>	addition/subtraction of membership, yes
Nov 10 22:12:33 <KTC>	the board should, even if it's procedral
Nov 10 22:12:37 <mpeel>	possibly not change in membership details
Nov 10 22:12:41 <mpeel>	e.g. address
Nov 10 22:12:44 <KTC>	*nod*
Nov 10 22:12:45 <AndrewRT>	good point
Nov 10 22:13:04 <AndrewRT>	im happy to go with mpeel's suggestion
Nov 10 22:13:18 <AndrewRT>	alternative is just to keep the register of members at the mem secs house
Nov 10 22:13:38 <AndrewRT>	is that an option mpeel?
Nov 10 22:13:57 <mpeel>	it's not a practical option, from the way I'm set up...
Nov 10 22:13:57 <cfp>	would google documents be sensible for some of these things?
Nov 10 22:14:10 <AndrewRT>	i havent tried that before
Nov 10 22:14:16 <AndrewRT>	is it secure?
Nov 10 22:14:44 <mpeel>	That would raise problems if it were the master copy - I would expect the physical location of the computer to be the location of the master copy.
Nov 10 22:15:13 <AndrewRT>	yes what would you put down as the physical location
Nov 10 22:15:15 <AndrewRT>	?
Nov 10 22:15:21 <AndrewRT>	would it be in teh uk?
Nov 10 22:15:53 <mpeel>	with google, it could be anywhere.
Nov 10 22:15:59 <cfp>	yeah i suppose so.
Nov 10 22:16:08 <cfp>	pain.
Nov 10 22:16:50 <AndrewRT>	nice idea thou!
Nov 10 22:17:17 <KTC>	next?
Nov 10 22:17:32 <AndrewRT>	one other point on incorporation
Nov 10 22:17:43 <KTC>	ok
Nov 10 22:17:49 <AndrewRT>	whenever we send out any official correpondence
Nov 10 22:18:01 <AndrewRT>	including emails, including website things
Nov 10 22:18:11 <AndrewRT>	we need to include certain information
Nov 10 22:18:23 <AndrewRT>	company number, registered office etc etc
Nov 10 22:18:48 <AndrewRT>	i'll send an email out with full details
Nov 10 22:18:49 <mpeel>	could you provide us with standard text for doing this, please?
Nov 10 22:18:56 <mpeel>	ah - never mind.
Nov 10 22:19:01 <cfp>	yes i was going to ask the same thing. thanks AndrewRT
Nov 10 22:19:13 <AndrewRT>	i dont think its explicit but do you think we;ll need this for the newsletter?
Nov 10 22:19:41 <mpeel>	It would be a good thing to include at the footer of it, methinks.
Nov 10 22:19:45 <KTC>	yeah
Nov 10 22:19:47 <AndrewRT>	or for the meta pages
Nov 10 22:19:56 <AndrewRT>	ok i'll put something together
Nov 10 22:20:12 <AndrewRT>	that was all on 4.8 thx
Nov 10 22:20:14 <Warofdreams>	great, I'll minute that as an action
Nov 10 22:20:15 <mpeel>	AndrewRT: we could probably have a standard template for putting at the bottom of the meta pages.
Nov 10 22:20:25 <AndrewRT>	mpeel: ok i;ll do this
Nov 10 22:20:40 <KTC>	5. Timetable. how we doing?
Nov 10 22:20:50 <AndrewRT>	i've updated the incorporation
Nov 10 22:21:22 <mpeel>	we need a new line about hearing back from ChapCom...
Nov 10 22:21:32 <AndrewRT>	"Begin negotiations with WMF" seems to have merged with "Submit draft Memorandum and Arts to Chapter Committee"
Nov 10 22:22:02 <KTC>	it did didn't it
Nov 10 22:22:18 <KTC>	should prob just merge those 2 lines
Nov 10 22:22:30 <AndrewRT>	Shall we pencil in Friday for "hearing back from ChapCom"
Nov 10 22:22:41 <AndrewRT>	i second KTC's suggestion
Nov 10 22:22:53 <mpeel>	ok to both
Nov 10 22:23:01 <mpeel>	who's going to edit the timeline?
Nov 10 22:23:08 <mpeel>	(we only want one person doing so at once...)
Nov 10 22:23:09 <Warofdreams>	I've done it
Nov 10 22:23:23 <AndrewRT>	v good
Nov 10 22:23:39 <KTC>	any other issue with it ?
Nov 10 22:23:42 <mpeel>	"Begin opening bank account" needs to be pushed back until after hearing back from ChapCom...
Nov 10 22:23:49 <AndrewRT>	Are we agreed to delay opening bank account until heard back from chapcom?
Nov 10 22:23:53 <KTC>	yes
Nov 10 22:23:57 <mpeel>	yes
Nov 10 22:24:05 <Warofdreams>	ok, I'll update that
Nov 10 22:24:22 <AndrewRT>	"Apply to HMRC for tax-exempt status" shall i take that as an action?
Nov 10 22:24:23 <KTC>	there's a "Apply to HMRC for tax-exempt status" for this wednesday...
Nov 10 22:24:48 *	Majorly has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
Nov 10 22:25:08 <mpeel>	someone should investigate that and find out what's needed...
Nov 10 22:25:24 <KTC>	"Begin accepting applications for guarantor membership" need to be pushed back until after chapcom as well as we don't want any more members until we know we won't have to modify the MoA/AoA
Nov 10 22:25:25 <AndrewRT>	"Begin accepting applications for guarantor membership" can also be merged with "Begin accepting donations and applications for supporting membership" now that we're charging
Nov 10 22:25:46 <mpeel>	yup: at the later date?
Nov 10 22:25:50 <AndrewRT>	mpeel: just a form to fill in, i can do it if everyone's happy for that
Nov 10 22:26:08 <KTC>	<Tango42> HMRC will need Mem and Arts, so that should probably wait until chapcom has replied
Nov 10 22:26:10 <mpeel>	AndrewRT: will it need things like bank account numbers?
Nov 10 22:26:32 <AndrewRT>	mpeel: dont think so
Nov 10 22:26:39 <Warofdreams>	so, next actions:
Nov 10 22:26:46 <Warofdreams>	12 Nov: Apply to HMRC for tax-exempt status
Nov 10 22:26:47 <cfp>	i'm happy to do the hmrc form if you want, but i'm also more than happy for you to do it
Nov 10 22:26:48 <cfp>	(thanks)
Nov 10 22:26:54 <Warofdreams>	14 Nov: Conclude negotiations with WMF, sign contract
Nov 10 22:27:04 <Warofdreams>	14 Nov: Begin opening bank account
Nov 10 22:27:16 <Warofdreams>	14 Nov?: Begin accepting applications for guarantor membership, donations and applications for supporting membership
Nov 10 22:27:23 <mpeel>	we won't be concluding negotiations with WMF on the 14 november...
Nov 10 22:27:32 <mpeel>	we'll be hearing back some preliminary results, is all...
Nov 10 22:27:37 <mpeel>	(as far as I understand it)
Nov 10 22:28:10 <KTC>	we need to agree on that business plan before the bank application can be sent off, but "begin" is a weassel word anyway
Nov 10 22:28:15 <AndrewRT>	details on HMRC here: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/charities/becoming/recognition.htm - no we dont need bank account at this stage
Nov 10 22:28:16 <Warofdreams>	true.  as I understand it, there's not much for them to decide, but it needs approval at a board meeting
Nov 10 22:28:19 <KTC>	we can say we've began via our discussion anyway
Nov 10 22:28:29 <mpeel>	we'll need a bank account for paying in cash and cheques; if we start accepting membership before we have one, then what do we do with those?
Nov 10 22:29:12 <mpeel>	does anyone know when the next WMF board meeting actually is?
Nov 10 22:29:17 <AndrewRT>	mpeel: i think qwe should delay accepting members until we have a bank account
Nov 10 22:29:20 <cfp>	well just hold on to them for now i guess
Nov 10 22:29:34 <mpeel>	AndrewRT: I'd agree.
Nov 10 22:29:44 <cfp>	i think the board's approval is just a signing off process
Nov 10 22:29:56 <cfp>	i think we can safely apply for the bank account as soon as we here from chapcom
Nov 10 22:30:03 <Warofdreams>	ok, I've updated http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK_v2.0/Timeline
Nov 10 22:30:27 <Warofdreams>	I've not changed the date for concluding negotiations with the WMF, as we have no knowledge of how long that will take
Nov 10 22:30:38 <mpeel>	cfp: yes, my point was that they should be seperate items, as Warofdreams has put into the timeline.
Nov 10 22:31:28 <mpeel>	HMRC: if it requires Mem & Arts, then shouldn't that also be on the 14th?
Nov 10 22:32:28 <Warofdreams>	might as well be
Nov 10 22:32:43 <AndrewRT>	ok so delay until ChapCom gets back to us
Nov 10 22:32:47 <mpeel>	Warofdreams: I'd remove "applications for supporting membership", and possibly split "start accepting donations" into a seperate point after bank account is opened...
Nov 10 22:33:46 <mpeel>	or, as andrew said above, move both guarantor membership and donations to after the bank account is open.
Nov 10 22:33:51 <AndrewRT>	I suggest "Begin accepting applications for guarantor membership, donations and applications for supporting membership" to "Begin accepting membership applications and donations"
Nov 10 22:34:15 <AndrewRT>	also need to put back to 13 Dec
Nov 10 22:34:22 <Warofdreams>	ok, will do
Nov 10 22:34:49 <mpeel>	if we only start accepting membership on 13 december, can we have the AGM a month later???
Nov 10 22:34:55 <KTC>	nope!
Nov 10 22:35:23 <cfp>	well we can in theory i think.
Nov 10 22:35:40 <cfp>	we need to provide one months notice to the membership at the time at which we provide the notice
Nov 10 22:35:49 <mpeel>	in practice, who do we send the announcement to? Just ourselves?
Nov 10 22:35:51 <Warofdreams>	aren't we going to begin accepting applications for guarantor membership on 14 Nov, but not process them until 13 Dec, as we previously stated?
Nov 10 22:36:31 <AndrewRT>	i think we only previously stated that because guarantor membership was to be free
Nov 10 22:37:19 <AndrewRT>	mpeel: i think we need a month's gap between starting to accept members and then calling the AGM
Nov 10 22:37:45 <AndrewRT>	So put back Announce AGM to 13 January
Nov 10 22:38:02 <AndrewRT>	?
Nov 10 22:38:09 <cfp>	why?
Nov 10 22:38:26 <Warofdreams>	or, we accept applications from Friday, but don't process them until 13 Dec, and we have the same timing
Nov 10 22:38:30 <cfp>	we'll announce the agm on the mailing list, everyone will have plenty of notice
Nov 10 22:38:37 <cfp>	and our legal obligations will still be satisfied
Nov 10 22:38:49 <cfp>	(we'll be the only 5 members that legally have to be notified)
Nov 10 22:39:14 <cfp>	not having the agm till feb seems a bit of an unnecessary delay
Nov 10 22:39:20 <AndrewRT>	wont it be easier to collect the subs at the same time as people sign up?
Nov 10 22:39:45 <AndrewRT>	or will we get people to send us cheques and keep them in a box until the account is opened?
Nov 10 22:40:10 <Warofdreams>	that was my thought
Nov 10 22:40:22 <KTC>	we need time for people to be members, and before the agm, so they can stand for the board
Nov 10 22:40:38 <mpeel>	KTC: good point.
Nov 10 22:40:46 <AndrewRT>	what if the account opening takes, say four months (not unheard of) and teh cheques expire
Nov 10 22:41:12 <AndrewRT>	KTC: I agree
Nov 10 22:42:02 <mpeel>	Just as a reminder: "If after 6 months of being a company we have still not held an AGM at which all of the board stood down, or if we have not processed more than 95% of the membership applications received more than one month before the AGM, by the time it happens, then we will ask the WMF to withdraw any trademark license and official UK chapter status they have given us."
Nov 10 22:42:05 <Warofdreams>	I know the Co-op can be a bit inefficient sometimes, but in a simple case like this, there's no reason why it should take anywhere near four months
Nov 10 22:42:11 <cfp>	well we can get round the legal requirement of notice for anyone that wants to stand for the board, e.g. we recommend everyone
Nov 10 22:42:21 <cfp>	yup.
Nov 10 22:43:08 <mpeel>	do cheques actually expire?
Nov 10 22:43:25 <KTC>	yes, and no. i've banked check that's "expired"
Nov 10 22:43:27 <mpeel>	if they do, then we could simply ask the applicants for new ones, if they are accepted.
Nov 10 22:43:34 <KTC>	but there is an official period where they're valid
Nov 10 22:44:05 <AndrewRT>	officially i understand its three months
Nov 10 22:44:34 <KTC>	cfp, the problem isn't us recommending people. according to the AoA, they need to have a notice signed by 14 days before the AGM
Nov 10 22:44:52 <AndrewRT>	i'm just looking at how often the WMF meets - from this http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Meetings it seems there can be months between meetings
Nov 10 22:45:21 <KTC>	that's only the in person meeting?
Nov 10 22:45:23 <AndrewRT>	so this could take a while
Nov 10 22:45:24 <cfp>	no they don't.
Nov 10 22:45:45 <cfp>	there's a proviso for skipping that if i remember right
Nov 10 22:45:55 <mpeel>	cfp: I can't see it if there is.
Nov 10 22:46:26 <mpeel>	"No person  may be appointed a Director at any general meeting unless: ... he or she is retiring as a Director; or"
Nov 10 22:46:30 <mpeel>	... then the 14 day thing.
Nov 10 22:46:35 <mpeel>	http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK_v2.0/AoA#Appointment_of_Directors
Nov 10 22:46:53 <KTC>	yes, which mean anyone apart from us 5 will need the 14 days
Nov 10 22:47:20 <cfp>	ok i misremembered.
Nov 10 22:47:37 <cfp>	well in that case i guess two months between starting accepting and the agm is reasonable
Nov 10 22:47:56 <AndrewRT>	so is everyone happy with us accepting members before we have a bank account?
Nov 10 22:48:27 <cfp>	starting accepting forms yes,
Nov 10 22:48:36 <mpeel>	Some points...
Nov 10 22:48:36 <cfp>	but it's misleading to say we're accepting members at that point
Nov 10 22:48:49 <mpeel>	we have yet to create a membership application form
Nov 10 22:49:00 <cfp>	they're not members till they've paid i presume, which requires the bank account
Nov 10 22:49:04 <mpeel>	payment would _have_ to be by cheque, not cash.
Nov 10 22:49:22 <AndrewRT>	i should say: is everyone happy with us inviting membership applications before we have a bank account?
Nov 10 22:49:53 <AndrewRT>	and they couldn't pay by bank transfer either
Nov 10 22:51:00 <mpeel>	I would be happy with it.
Nov 10 22:51:44 <KTC>	if we're making it clear the application will be pending until we opened the bank account and then approval of the application, okay
Nov 10 22:51:47 <mpeel>	... so long as we finalize the application form, and membership guidelines, before then.
Nov 10 22:52:17 <mpeel>	cfp, Warofdreams? What do you think, AndrewRT?
Nov 10 22:52:37 <Warofdreams>	based on an earlier point, I've just e-mailed Michael Snow to ask when the Foundation board are next due to meet
Nov 10 22:52:52 <KTC>	Warofdreams, thanks
Nov 10 22:53:17 <Warofdreams>	I'm happy with this proposal
Nov 10 22:53:24 <cfp>	yeah i'm happy with it
Nov 10 22:53:45 <cfp>	we should probably tell people that if they wait bank transfers will be available though
Nov 10 22:54:03 <Warofdreams>	yes, definitely
Nov 10 22:54:08 <AndrewRT>	i'll go with the majority :)
Nov 10 22:54:25 <mpeel>	back to the original point: date when we want to start inviting membership applications?
Nov 10 22:54:39 <Warofdreams>	thinking about timing, I won't be around on Friday to finalise the newsletter, so I would like to make the deadline for it Monday
Nov 10 22:54:44 <AndrewRT>	although we should still bring the membership form etc back to teh next meetin for approval
Nov 10 22:55:01 <Warofdreams>	if we do this, then Monday or Tuesday, after the next board meeting, would be good
Nov 10 22:55:04 <mpeel>	Approve at next meeting, invite membership applications the day after?
Nov 10 22:55:07 <Warofdreams>	we can announce it in the newsletter
Nov 10 22:55:08 <AndrewRT>	i suggest start inviting membership applications after next meeting
Nov 10 22:55:10 <AndrewRT>	yes
Nov 10 22:55:13 <mpeel>	ok
Nov 10 22:55:14 <KTC>	yes yes yes
Nov 10 22:55:25 <mpeel>	Please put an action on me to make an application form, then.
Nov 10 22:55:30 <Warofdreams>	will do
Nov 10 22:55:55 <KTC>	anything else on this ?
Nov 10 22:56:02 <AndrewRT>	i suggest we leave teh rest of the timetable as it is for now
Nov 10 22:56:17 <AndrewRT>	once those changes are made
Nov 10 22:56:33 <mpeel>	I have a couple of queries about possible additions to it...
Nov 10 22:56:45 <AndrewRT>	ok
Nov 10 22:56:51 <mpeel>	Namely, direct debits, and gift aid.
Nov 10 22:57:05 <Warofdreams>	ok, I've finished updating the timeline
Nov 10 22:57:11 <mpeel>	do we want to set those up prior to the AGM?
Nov 10 22:57:18 <AndrewRT>	Gift aid as soon as "Receive tax exempt status" comes through
Nov 10 22:57:29 <KTC>	i think direct debit can take time
Nov 10 22:57:35 <KTC>	so start the process of getting it
Nov 10 22:57:44 <KTC>	but don't make it a pre-requir
Nov 10 22:57:46 <AndrewRT>	DDs  maybe discuss after bank account set up
Nov 10 22:57:55 <cfp>	yeah i'm not sure what hoops exactly we need to jump through to accept direct debits.
Nov 10 22:58:05 <Warofdreams>	yes.  it'll be very good to get them set up, but it's not easy
Nov 10 22:58:07 <cfp>	certainly something for me to investigate
Nov 10 22:58:33 <AndrewRT>	is that a volunteer?
Nov 10 22:58:45 <AndrewRT>	cfp - action for later once the bank account set up?
Nov 10 23:00:00 <AndrewRT>	can we move on?
Nov 10 23:00:08 <cfp>	yup. action for me.
Nov 10 23:00:20 <mpeel>	should we add them to the timeline as "Begin setting up direct debit" and likewise for gift aid?
Nov 10 23:00:22 <cfp>	will try to investigate prior to sending everything off
Nov 10 23:01:00 <cfp>	(strike "try to" i definitely will)
Nov 10 23:01:18 <Warofdreams>	why don't we find out what setting up direct debit involves before committing ourselves to doing it at a particular point
Nov 10 23:01:34 <mpeel>	ok
Nov 10 23:02:04 <Warofdreams>	Treasurers Report?
Nov 10 23:02:14 <mpeel>	KTC, shall we move on?
Nov 10 23:02:18 <KTC>	yes
Nov 10 23:02:32 <KTC>	do have a a treas or sec report, or rather, is there anything to report?
Nov 10 23:02:36 <AndrewRT>	I suggested this item for the Agenda
Nov 10 23:02:46 <AndrewRT>	shoudl be a standing item
Nov 10 23:03:06 <AndrewRT>	for this meeting, just interested to know how much the Formation meeting cost
Nov 10 23:03:09 <cfp>	nothing additional to what's been discussed above
Nov 10 23:03:19 <AndrewRT>	cfp, how many expense forms have you had back?
Nov 10 23:03:24 <cfp>	just the one.
Nov 10 23:03:32 <cfp>	(yours)
Nov 10 23:03:40 <AndrewRT>	the one i emailed this evening!
Nov 10 23:03:43 <AndrewRT>	;)
Nov 10 23:03:43 <KTC>	:D
Nov 10 23:03:53 <AndrewRT>	is everyone else planning to put one in?
Nov 10 23:03:56 <cfp>	i'll send out the forms with the correct bike prices etc at the end of this meeting
Nov 10 23:04:04 <cfp>	though it shouldn't make any difference to anyone
Nov 10 23:04:25 <mpeel>	I was planning on putting one in, but with a reduced price per mile, if possible - 15p to cover petrol, rather than the full 40p.
Nov 10 23:04:59 <Warofdreams>	I am also planning on putting one in
Nov 10 23:05:03 <AndrewRT>	ok perhaps update at the next meeting - knowing the costs will help future budgeting
Nov 10 23:05:31 <KTC>	AOCB then?
Nov 10 23:05:34 <KTC>	Andrew?
Nov 10 23:05:48 <AndrewRT>	Secretay's report - nothing this time but maybe in the future!
Nov 10 23:05:53 <AndrewRT>	no AOCB from me
Nov 10 23:06:08 <mpeel>	I had one query, which was related to the AGM.
Nov 10 23:06:14 <KTC>	i thought u had a point u wanted to bring up later in the meeting, or did we already do that
Nov 10 23:06:18 <mpeel>	it might be a bit too far in advance, though.
Nov 10 23:06:20 <KTC>	yes mpeel 
Nov 10 23:06:46 <cfp>	i'm not sure there's much to be gained from claiming less than the going rate. if you feel guilty just be more generous when it comes to donation time
Nov 10 23:06:53 <AndrewRT>	KT: nope that was the register of members point that was covered
Nov 10 23:07:12 <mpeel>	In discussions with Tango after the last board meeting, I realised that I might be able to get a room for the AGM at Manchester University. I can look into that if it's thought to be worth investigating.
Nov 10 23:07:28 <KTC>	sure it's worth investigating
Nov 10 23:07:35 <AndrewRT>	yes please
Nov 10 23:07:40 <mpeel>	(basically: I book rooms all the time for internal meetings, but am not sure what the case is for external meetings)
Nov 10 23:08:05 <mpeel>	would Manchester be a suitable location for the AGM, or would somewhere further south be better?
Nov 10 23:08:18 <Warofdreams>	We might get a better turnout in London or Brum, but Manchester would be quite good
Nov 10 23:08:28 <Warofdreams>	more convenient for people coming from Scotland or NI
Nov 10 23:08:36 <KTC>	Manchester is a big city, i'm sure it would be fine 
Nov 10 23:08:41 *	mpeel looks up Brum on a map as he has no clue where it is
Nov 10 23:09:01 <Warofdreams>	look in the middle.  Might be listed as Birmingham.
Nov 10 23:09:01 <cfp>	i really think brum is the only sensible city for the agm
Nov 10 23:09:08 <mpeel>	ah, ok. :)
Nov 10 23:09:12 <KTC>	:D
Nov 10 23:09:22 <mpeel>	closest I found was "Brum Brum UK" in Birmingham. :-D
Nov 10 23:09:25 <cfp>	there are a lot of people who go to london meetups
Nov 10 23:09:35 <AndrewRT>	can i suggest we look into this closer to the time
Nov 10 23:09:36 <cfp>	we don't want to stray too far from that crowd
Nov 10 23:09:39 <cfp>	yes certainly
Nov 10 23:09:48 <Warofdreams>	Just a quick AOCB on contacts on other language editions of Wikipedia
Nov 10 23:09:53 <Warofdreams>	do we have any?
Nov 10 23:10:02 <AndrewRT>	i dont
Nov 10 23:10:08 <Warofdreams>	I'm sure the majority of members will be active on English language projects
Nov 10 23:10:16 <AndrewRT>	are you meaning other languages native to the UK?
Nov 10 23:10:28 <AndrewRT>	gaelic etc?
Nov 10 23:10:40 <Warofdreams>	in particular, but any which are widely spoken in the UK would be good
Nov 10 23:10:47 <AndrewRT>	or other languages generally?
Nov 10 23:10:59 <mpeel>	One person who signed up on one of the lists (guarantor/supporter/interested) is active mostly on the Russian Wikipedia.
Nov 10 23:11:22 <Warofdreams>	I think that Welsh, Gaelic, probably Cornish, Manx would be important to keep updated
Nov 10 23:11:37 <AndrewRT>	i agree with WarofDreams
Nov 10 23:11:42 <Warofdreams>	but we may well get other members who are mostly active on other languages
Nov 10 23:12:03 <AndrewRT>	we should send our newsletter to those noticeboards too
Nov 10 23:12:17 <AndrewRT>	and maybe ask someone to translate for us?
Nov 10 23:12:34 <KTC>	if we can, that would be good
Nov 10 23:13:02 <Warofdreams>	yes, it would be good, but it'd still be worth sending some info if it has to be in English
Nov 10 23:13:20 <KTC>	yep
Nov 10 23:13:32 <AndrewRT>	yes i agree
Nov 10 23:13:39 <AndrewRT>	is there an acxtion for teh Board here?
Nov 10 23:13:47 <AndrewRT>	_action_
Nov 10 23:14:35 <Warofdreams>	search out people who might help translate.  I can post to the mailing list, but if anyone has any ideas, to share over at the Newsletter page on meta
Nov 10 23:15:26 <KTC>	ask around the people who translate mediawiki and site notices
Nov 10 23:15:31 <cfp>	keeping them informed is the most important thing. if someone in their community is interested they can translate for us, but i don't think we need to worry too much about organising that ourself
Nov 10 23:15:57 <mpeel>	perhaps we should only request that the summary is translated; the whole newsletter would hopefully be a rather large translation job.
Nov 10 23:16:02 <Warofdreams>	I guess beyond that, finding the relevant places to send or post info to on each project
Nov 10 23:16:13 <Warofdreams>	mpeel: yes, I think that is the best approach
Nov 10 23:16:36 <AndrewRT>	can you take that as an action WarofDreams in conjunction with the newsletter?
Nov 10 23:16:37 <cfp>	can we move on, if that's not rude? i could do with scooting off rather.
Nov 10 23:16:49 <Warofdreams>	Andrew: will do.
Nov 10 23:16:51 <KTC>	AOCB ??
Nov 10 23:16:53 <cfp>	thanks wod
Nov 10 23:17:09 <AndrewRT>	yes me too
Nov 10 23:17:12 <AndrewRT>	r we done?
Nov 10 23:17:13 <mpeel>	one last, probably quick thing from me.
Nov 10 23:17:24 <AndrewRT>	pl?
Nov 10 23:17:59 <mpeel>	there have been a couple of email sent around to us all about events at which an "official"ish wikipedia person was requested at.
Nov 10 23:18:10 <mpeel>	unfortunately I can't find the emails right now. :(
Nov 10 23:18:33 <KTC>	i know which ones you mean
Nov 10 23:18:57 <mpeel>	should we say "We're not in a position to do things like this" yet, or should we try to respond properly to them?
Nov 10 23:19:15 <AndrewRT>	i know the ones too
Nov 10 23:19:30 <AndrewRT>	i think our focus should be on forming the company etc
Nov 10 23:19:43 <AndrewRT>	and we should only do those things if we have extra time
Nov 10 23:20:09 <KTC>	we should all consider whether we individually can do it, but focus on what Andrew said
Nov 10 23:20:10 <AndrewRT>	i think its ok to say we cant deal with this yet if we cant
Nov 10 23:20:16 <mpeel>	I'd agree, but we should make sure that they get some sort of response, though, rather than silence.
Nov 10 23:20:24 <Warofdreams>	if one of us can make something, then great, but if not, we send a polite no explaining why we're not really in a position to do it
Nov 10 23:20:32 <AndrewRT>	good idea
Nov 10 23:20:45 <cfp>	seems reasonable.
Nov 10 23:20:53 <AndrewRT>	should the comms sec coordinate responses?
Nov 10 23:20:58 <AndrewRT>	wariofdreams?
Nov 10 23:21:02 <cfp>	also seems reasonable
Nov 10 23:21:42 <KTC>	*nod*
Nov 10 23:21:42 <Warofdreams>	that sounds ok.  if anyone is planning to attend something in an official capacity, please let me know ASAP, otherwise my default response will be a polite no.
Nov 10 23:21:50 <AndrewRT>	ok thanks
Nov 10 23:21:54 <cfp>	(someone's being playing too much mario...)
Nov 10 23:22:00 <mpeel>	great, thanks.
Nov 10 23:22:02 <KTC>	okay, one last thing for the minutes. I would like to ask the board to recognize and approve (as a board of an actual incorproated company) all the decisions we have taken up to this point as minuted in the past minutes
Nov 10 23:22:18 <cfp>	yes, i approve them all.
Nov 10 23:22:25 <Warofdreams>	I recognise and approve them all
Nov 10 23:22:56 <AndrewRT>	good idea - i agree too
Nov 10 23:23:01 <mpeel>	yes, although I would prefer if the appropriate ones were specifically identified as resolutions of the board.
Nov 10 23:23:42 <AndrewRT>	how would this be done mpeel?
Nov 10 23:23:49 <cfp>	perhaps we should explicitly write down a resolution summarising the important bits that we'd agree on next week
Nov 10 23:24:37 <KTC>	we can do that
Nov 10 23:24:38 <mpeel>	cfp: I like that idea.
Nov 10 23:25:11 <cfp>	it's mostly just the positions at this stage i presume.
Nov 10 23:25:17 <KTC>	right, we are done then?
Nov 10 23:25:23 <KTC>	(please :D)
Nov 10 23:25:25 <cfp>	same time next week?
Nov 10 23:25:27 <AndrewRT>	yep
Nov 10 23:25:32 <AndrewRT>	good for me
Nov 10 23:25:32 <KTC>	monday or tuesday ?
Nov 10 23:25:34 <Warofdreams>	cfp, can I action you to prepare a resolution?
Nov 10 23:25:47 <AndrewRT>	tuesday is slightly better for me
Nov 10 23:26:02 <cfp>	monday is slightly better for me...
Nov 10 23:26:06 <Warofdreams>	I am happy with either Mon or Tue next week
Nov 10 23:26:14 <mpeel>	I have no preference next week (and thanks to everyone for agreeing to have this week's today rather than tomorrow)
Nov 10 23:26:32 <cfp>	errr i have a lot of bank stuff to do, would someone else like to volunteer
Nov 10 23:26:40 <KTC>	i'll do it
Nov 10 23:26:43 <cfp>	(sorry)
Nov 10 23:26:46 <cfp>	thanks KTC
Nov 10 23:26:52 <Warofdreams>	ok, will action you, KTC.  thanks.
Nov 10 23:27:10 <KTC>	um, if it's one monday, and one tuesday, and no preference otherwise
Nov 10 23:27:37 <AndrewRT>	up to you KTC!
Nov 10 23:27:43 <KTC>	i'll flip a coin ;)
Nov 10 23:27:49 <cfp>	seems fair
Nov 10 23:28:10 <KTC>	it was tail, so tuesday
Nov 10 23:28:15 <cfp>	oook
Nov 10 23:28:21 <Warofdreams>	ok, great
Nov 10 23:28:22 <cfp>	lady luck has spoken
Nov 10 23:28:24 <AndrewRT>	see you all then then
Nov 10 23:28:26 <AndrewRT>	bye
Nov 10 23:28:28 <cfp>	see you then
Nov 10 23:28:30 *	AndrewRT has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0/2008052906]")
Nov 10 23:28:30 <KTC>	bye
Nov 10 23:28:31 <Warofdreams>	for the logs, it's 23:29


Nov 10 20:27:16 *	Now talking on #wikimedia-uk
Nov 10 20:27:16 *	Topic for #wikimedia-uk is: Discussion of Wikimedia UK | Discuss the Oxford Wikimania 2010 bid in #wikimania-oxford | The next Wikimedia UK board meetings is Monday at 8.30pm UTC in #wikimedia-uk-board | This channel will be publicly logged during the board meeting
Nov 10 20:27:16 *	Topic for #wikimedia-uk set by mpeel at Tue Nov 04 22:51:42 2008
Nov 10 20:27:17 *	#wikimedia-uk :http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/
Nov 10 20:28:31 <KTC>	hi all
Nov 10 20:36:05 *	schiste has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
Nov 10 20:36:21 *	schiste (n=schiste@80.101.89-79.rev.gaoland.net) has joined #wikimedia-uk
Nov 10 20:38:18 <Tango42>	suggestion for expenses forms: Don't have the names of the signatories done electronically since the form may be printed off before you know who is going to turn up at the meeting when you want to get it signed.
Nov 10 20:39:12 <Tango42>	there are official rates for bikes! Who knew? That resolves my concern, then.
Nov 10 20:41:31 <KTC>	those names can be removed before easily before being printed
Nov 10 20:41:45 <mpeel>	Tango42: hopefully we'll know before who will be at the meetings, otherwise it should be pretty easy to get the form reprinted (or just modify it by hand if needed)
Nov 10 20:42:12 <cfp>	there wouldn't be a lot of point holding a meeting without the chair, treasurer and secretary
Nov 10 20:42:54 <mpeel>	cfp: we've already held a meeting without the secretary.
Nov 10 20:43:05 <Tango42>	If you didn't have all of them, then it would be silly to hold a meeting, but you could hold a meeting without one of them and if that one happens to be on the form you need to cross it out and make a mess
Nov 10 20:43:13 <Tango42>	what do you really gain by having the names printed on?
Nov 10 20:43:20 <mpeel>	the chair isn't required (we can nominate someone else to do their job), and the treasurer is only needed when talking about money...
Nov 10 20:44:40 <cfp>	well before i had ......... ............ chair/treasurer  (delete as appropriate)
Nov 10 20:44:57 <cfp>	oh and "(must not be the same person as mentioned above)
Nov 10 20:45:02 <cfp>	which made the boxes a lot bigger
Nov 10 20:45:16 <cfp>	and hence squashed everything else when it's being shrunk to fit on page a4
Nov 10 20:45:41 <Tango42>	can't you have the comment written underneath the box, or something?
Nov 10 20:48:36 <cfp>	the whole page still gets squashed
Nov 10 20:58:51 <Tango42>	What's going on here? I thought all board candidates agreed that they wouldn't have any problems opening an account...
Nov 10 20:59:15 <KTC>	i may have problem with one particular bank certain type of account
Nov 10 20:59:22 <KTC>	i have no problem opening account in general
Nov 10 20:59:28 <KTC>	it's just save the hussle
Nov 10 20:59:32 <KTC>	(sp)
Nov 10 20:59:47 <KTC>	i'm having issues with a certain bank atm
Nov 10 20:59:53 <KTC>	that's all :)
Nov 10 20:59:58 <Tango42>	ok
Nov 10 21:00:23 <Tango42>	it doesn't sound like something that would cause a problem - banks share any information that they're likely to hold against you
Nov 10 21:01:02 <Tango42>	I strongly advise against ever having single signatories, it's a significant risk
Nov 10 21:01:16 <Tango42>	All someone has to do to empty the account is write several cheques for £99
Nov 10 21:24:28 <Tango42>	http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Agreement_between_chapters_and_Wikimedia_Foundation
Nov 10 21:24:46 <mpeel>	thanks Tango42
Nov 10 21:25:01 <Tango42>	lol
Nov 10 21:25:06 <Warofdreams>	thanks!
Nov 10 21:25:11 <cfp>	great minds...
Nov 10 21:25:13 <Tango42>	np
Nov 10 21:25:17 <cfp>	(thanks tango)
Nov 10 21:26:38 <Tango42>	did people see my suggestions on the mailing list? 1) Get permission to use Wikimedia England, etc. in addition to Wikimedia UK and 2) Clarify meaning of "commercial"
Nov 10 21:26:49 <KTC>	yes
Nov 10 21:27:07 <Tango42>	good
Nov 10 21:37:10 <Tango42>	General comment: You have a mandate from the community to make decisions on our behalf. You don't need to do a detailed consultation process on everything. Just be brave and make decisions!
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Nov 10 21:39:09 <AndrewRT>	yes but we did stand on the basis that we'd be open and inclusive from the start!
Nov 10 21:39:37 <Tango42>	yeah, but you have to strike a balance
Nov 10 21:40:12 <Tango42>	don't be afraid to just make decisions as you see fit - almost everything can be fixed later
Nov 10 21:40:37 <Tango42>	the important thing is that you get to a stage where you accept members, from there the law handles the whole accountability aspect
Nov 10 21:51:55 <Tango42>	by "unemployed" do you mean "in receipt of Job Seeker's Allowance"? These things need to be precise.
Nov 10 21:53:19 <AndrewRT>	do they? We're a charity after all, we can rely on people donating what they feel is right
Nov 10 21:53:30 <cfp>	i think we trust people to be honest
Nov 10 21:55:17 *	Majorly (n=Majorly@wikimedia/Majorly) has joined #wikimedia-uk
Nov 10 21:59:14 <Tango42>	if it's not precise you'll have to deal with all the people asking for clarification
Nov 10 22:08:36 <Tango42>	if you've heard back from Comp House, does that mean this is the first official board meeting? If so, you may want to minute some of the decisions from the previous unofficial ones - appointing officers, for example
Nov 10 22:11:45 <Tango42>	and you're remembering you need an explicit resolution to open the bank account?
Nov 10 22:12:57 <KTC>	"TH recommended using the Co-operative Bank. This was provisionally agreed by the board; TH to collate all necessary information and fill out the forms. Board to wait for AT's views before confirming this decision."
Nov 10 22:13:07 <KTC>	and AT confirmed it via email
Nov 10 22:14:03 <Tango42>	that was the last meeting, yes? You weren't a company then.
Nov 10 22:14:23 <Tango42>	You can't have a board meeting before there is a company to be the board of.
Nov 10 22:14:48 <cfp>	we're unlikely to send off the forms before the next meeting in any case (we still have to wait for chapcom)
Nov 10 22:14:51 <Tango42>	The resolution also needs to explicitly say who will be signatories and what the requirements will be
Nov 10 22:15:27 <KTC>	we need to agree on the business plan before we actually apply for the account
Nov 10 22:15:38 <KTC>	so there will be another meeting agreeing to it first
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Nov 10 22:25:33 <Tango42>	HMRC will need Mem and Arts, so that should probably wait until chapcom has replied
Nov 10 22:26:49 <Tango42>	mpeel: Not as far as I can remember, it was a while I go I researched it
Nov 10 22:34:33 <Tango42>	BTW, check out http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/f9c3e8300dc9c4b789a6aa4495500477/compdetails - very exciting! :)
Nov 10 22:35:22 <KTC>	Tango42, we know, that's how we knew before the meeting we were incoroprated :)
Nov 10 22:35:41 <Tango42>	Why didn't you tell the rest of us?
Nov 10 22:35:57 <KTC>	it's going out as part of the newletter :)
Nov 10 22:36:01 <KTC>	later this week
Nov 10 22:36:37 <mpeel>	sorry: I stumbled across it a few days ago, but wasn't sure if it meant we were properly incorporated, so only sent the email about it to the board.
Nov 10 22:37:14 <Tango42>	An email to the mailing list announcing it would be good, in addition to the newsletter - it's big news!
Nov 10 22:41:20 <Tango42>	If the account opening takes 4 months, you're all fired!
Nov 10 22:42:30 <Tango42>	(Well, you could just about manage the 6 month deadline, but you would be cutting it close)
Nov 10 22:43:11 <Tango42>	I thought you could only recommend existing board members, or did you change that?
Nov 10 22:44:15 <Tango42>	mpeel: Depends on how the bank feels on the day. They're often reluctant to accept checks over 6 months old. You would need to return all the cheques so people can destroy them themselves.
Nov 10 22:45:05 <mpeel>	if they're 6 months old, then WMUK2 is _really_ in trouble.
Nov 10 22:49:08 <Tango42>	6 weeks would probably be enough - 2 weeks for people to apply, 1 week for you to approve them, then send out the notification 21 clear days before, then there's a week for people to notify you they they intend to stand, then a week for you to notify the rest of the members about who is standing, and then a week off, and then the AGM
Nov 10 22:49:52 <cfp>	yeah seems reasonable.
Nov 10 22:50:38 <mpeel>	I'd prefer a little more leeway than that, but that would be doable.
Nov 10 22:52:44 <Tango42>	yeah, it's a bare minimum
Nov 10 22:53:31 <Tango42>	A couple of extra weeks would be good, but it means the AGM could be quite a bit later than planned.
Nov 10 22:54:05 <KTC>	yes, but while we need to move as quickly as possible, we need to ensure it's not too quick
Nov 10 22:54:23 <KTC>	i.e. so people that want to be member before the first AGM / want to stand for board can actually do so
Nov 10 23:27:07 <Tango42>	be careful when doing anything official - officially you are just board members of Wiki UK Ltd., I doubt anyone actually cares if Wiki UK Ltd. attends their events. There's not much you can do until we have chapter status.
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Nov 10 23:28:53 <KTC>	yes, but the events have just ask for someone, not someone from the Wikimedia UK chapter
Nov 10 23:29:06 <Tango42>	that's ok, then
Nov 10 23:29:11 *	Warofdreams (n=chatzill@82-38-118-184.cable.ubr06.shef.blueyonder.co.uk) has left #wikimedia-uk
Nov 10 23:29:40 <KTC>	right, thanks for your input Tango42, i'm off
Nov 10 23:29:41 <KTC>	cya
Nov 10 23:29:46 <Tango42>	np
Nov 10 23:29:47 <Tango42>	cya
Nov 10 23:29:49 <mpeel>	KTC: any idea when you'll get the logs online?
Nov 10 23:29:58 <KTC>	now ;)
Nov 10 23:30:02 <mpeel>	thanks. :)
Nov 10 23:30:11 <mpeel>	g'night to you, then.