Meetings/2009-07-07/IRC

#wikimedia-uk-board

[20:30] mpeel: agenda is at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-07-07/Agenda
[20:30] mpeel: apologies for absence - zeyi will be late, and cfp and steve can't make it.
[20:30] mpeel: 2. Minutes of Meeting dated 2009-06-23 - approval & actions
[20:31] mpeel: http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-06-23 - everyone happy with them?
[20:31] AndrewRT: I am 
[20:31] skenmy: No issues here.
[20:31] Seddon: yep
[20:32] AndrewRT: thats apporved then
[20:32] AndrewRT: I've marked the actions with their status
[20:32] mpeel: I made a few tweaks on the 29 june - http://uk.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Meetings%2F2009-06-23&diff=4429&oldid=4423 - but after those, I'm happy.
[20:33] AndrewRT: (oops)
[20:33] AndrewRT: thanks for these corrections
[20:34] mpeel: AndrewRT: are you happy to run us through the actions?
[20:34] AndrewRT: sure
[20:34] AndrewRT: most are self-explanatory
[20:35] AndrewRT: so I'll just do the ones marked discuss
[20:35] AndrewRT: interrupt me if you want any others explained
[20:35] AndrewRT: so to start:
[20:35] AndrewRT: 6. SV, MP, JS to collate press response template list
[20:35] AndrewRT: I've marked this as done
[20:35] AndrewRT: We now have six scenarios listed at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Media_relations#Media_response
[20:36] AndrewRT: (a) is the board happy that we don't need to add any more scenarios
[20:36] AndrewRT: (b) can we decide who is going to write the scenario responses
[20:36] mpeel: additional scenarios can be added as and when they're thought up
[20:36] mpeel: it'll never be a complete list...
[20:36] AndrewRT: ok, so we're happy with the list for now?
[20:37] AndrewRT: Seddon, skenmy, mpeel?
[20:37] skenmy: looks okay for now - echo mpeel
[20:37] mpeel: I'm broadly happy with it as it stands
[20:37] Seddon: echo mpeel
[20:38] AndrewRT: so there's not much point having a list of scenarions if we dont have responses
[20:38] AndrewRT: who can we ask to put these together?
[20:38] mpeel: I guess that's my job
[20:38] AndrewRT: can I action you then mpeel?
[20:38] mpeel: ok
[20:39] mpeel: I can write the first drafts
[20:39] AndrewRT: thanks
[20:39] AndrewRT: moving on then
[20:39] mpeel: but please can everyone edit them... 
[20:39] AndrewRT: sure
[20:39] AndrewRT: 8. MP agreed to contact pro bono lawyer groups by email
[20:39] AndrewRT: we spoke earlier on the phone on this
[20:39] AndrewRT: thsi action originally arose from the discussion with Tango
[20:39] mpeel: If we're going to get a pro bono lawyer, then we need to have something to give them immediately
[20:39] mpeel: at the moment, I don't think we have a specific urgent job
[20:40] AndrewRT: we do have two jobs that need a lawyer
[20:40] AndrewRT: (a) new WMF-WMUK agreement
[20:40] AndrewRT: (b) charity commission application
[20:40] mpeel: (a) is too high level a discussion at the moment, focusing on the generalities rather than the legal specifics
[20:40] AndrewRT: what shall we do, wait until they reach a later stage and then approach potential legal help?
[20:41] cimon joined the chat room.
[20:41] mpeel: I think we need to wait until it returns to specifics first
[20:41] mpeel: (b) we need to discuss later
[20:41] mpeel: but again, I don't think we need specific help right now - the situation's changed with the WMF grant
[20:41] AndrewRT: ok, in that case I suggest we drop this action and reopen it later on
[20:42] mpeel: I agree: let's put it on hold for a short while.
[20:42] AndrewRT: movign on
[20:43] AndrewRT: 13. Once this is established, JS, MP, AT will work on a submission
[20:43] AndrewRT: this is a reference to the Online Info 2009 conference
[20:43] AndrewRT: seddon did you say you had something on this>
[20:43] Seddon: indeed
[20:43] Seddon: see the conferences report
[20:43] Seddon: the submission is linked
[20:44] AndrewRT: ok shall we discuss then? mpeel?
[20:44] mpeel: discuss during the report section
[20:44] Seddon: sure thing
[20:44] AndrewRT: and finally
[20:44] AndrewRT: 16. MP to investigate what other domains names are available so that the Board can decide whether to request ownership ourselves or enable the WMF to own them.
[20:44] AndrewRT: we've had some emails round about this
[20:45] AndrewRT: mpeel do you want to talk about this now?
[20:45] mpeel: I can do, if everyone's happy to discuss it now
[20:45] mpeel: not sure there's a place for it later in the agenda
[20:45] AndrewRT: sure - preusme it'll be brief
[20:45] skenmy: sure
[20:46] mpeel: I sent an email around to the board, asking for everyone's views on this
[20:46] mpeel: the basic summary is that there's a lot of concern about the legal implications of owning the domains, so the chapter probably shouldn't own them.
[20:47] AndrewRT: the ones we're talking about are wikipedia.org.uk i presume?
[20:47] mpeel: those + others
[20:47] mpeel: related to wikimedia projects
[20:47] mpeel: From here, we have two options: 1) open up the discussion onto the mailing list, 2) send an email to Erik pointing out the domains and requesting that they register them
[20:47] AndrewRT: I think we should avoid owning these ourselves
[20:47] AndrewRT: the benefits seem to be very small compared to the potential risks
[20:47] mpeel: there's the boarder issue of getting back squatted domains, which perhaps we can take an active role in helping the WMF get ownership of them.
[20:48] mpeel: * boarder = broader
[20:48] AndrewRT: indeed - we can help teh WMF on this
[20:48] AndrewRT: but I think this should be driven by how important the WMF tihnks it is
[20:48] Seddon: hmmmm
[20:48] AndrewRT: I'm not sure the community will be too interested in this topic
[20:48] skenmy: There is, also, the cost aspect of owning all these domains
[20:48] skenmy: for little gain
[20:49] mpeel: skenmy: the cost is fairly small
[20:49] Seddon: i have to say that before we start saying that there is little gain that we look into it
[20:49] AndrewRT: I suggest a note addressed to foundation posted onto internal
[20:49] mpeel: if we were to use them as portals, then the gain could be considerable
[20:49] Seddon: we have no idea what the income propects are
[20:49] Seddon: that is my point mpeel
[20:49] skenmy: income?
[20:49] Seddon: skenmy: donations
[20:49] AndrewRT: you mean in terms of redirected traffic
[20:50] mpeel: the classic example would be wikipedia.de
[20:50] mpeel: that's raised a lot of money for WMDE
[20:50] skenmy: well sure, we can foreard traffic with them
[20:50] mpeel: but has also lead to law suits
[20:50] AndrewRT: can we find out how much they get for that?
[20:50] skenmy: but do we have the funds to do this? how many domains are we looking at?
[20:50] Seddon: well the only one thatll be worthwhile is the wikipedia domain
[20:50] Seddon: the others i doubt would be of any huge usage
[20:51] skenmy: so wikipedia.co.uk ? .org.uk ?
[20:51] Seddon: yer
[20:51] mpeel: those are the major ones
[20:51] skenmy: Cost is small then 
[20:51] mpeel: there are others - see http://board.wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Domain_names
[20:51] mpeel: specifically, "Available domains "
[20:52] mpeel: (don't want to list them publically)
[20:52] mpeel: AndrewRT: I can enquire with WMDE about the revenue from wikipedia.de
[20:52] mpeel: please action me on that
[20:53] AndrewRT: ok
[20:53] AndrewRT: and approach the WMF at the same time?
[20:53] mpeel: we need to reach consensus first
[20:54] AndrewRT: well, we can at least ask their views on whether they would want to own them themselves and how important they think the issue is
[20:54] mpeel: I suggest that I raise this for discussion on the mailing list, and then if there's consensus against us owning them then we pass it to the WMF.
[20:54] skenmy: I'm happy for this to go ahead, assuming we won't be pursuing crazy names like vvik1p3dia.co.uk
[20:55] AndrewRT: ok that's fine
[20:55] skenmy: Sounds good to me, mpeel
[20:55] AndrewRT: action MPeel to email WMDE and WMUK-L
[20:55] mpeel: ok, thanks AndrewRT
[20:56] AndrewRT: well thats all teh actions from the minutes - are there any other items people wnat to raise?
[20:56] mpeel: "7. TD agreed to contact the gazette on behalf of WMUK to solicit a pro-bono lawyer"
[20:56] mpeel: what's the status on that?
[20:56] AndrewRT: I spoke to him briefly
[20:57] AndrewRT: he said he'll try to do it by next mtg
[20:57] mpeel: ok
[20:57] skenmy: Is it relevant as per #8?
[20:58] AndrewRT: well, MP and I decided not to do #8 for now
[20:59] mpeel: shall we continue, and discuss this in #wikimedia-uk on the side?
[20:59] AndrewRT: I've asked Tango on the public channel
[20:59] AndrewRT: sure
[20:59] AndrewRT: any other qs on the actions?
[20:59] mpeel: Seddon, skenmy?
[21:00] skenmy: none
[21:00] Seddon: none
[21:00] mpeel: ok, 3. # Matters arising - effectively done in the above
[21:00] mpeel: 4. Reports (5 mins/ea max)
[21:00] mpeel: 1. Secretary
[21:00] AndrewRT:        http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-07-07/Agenda/Secretary%27s_Report    
[21:00] mpeel: report is at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-07-07/Agenda/Secretary%27s_Report
[21:00] AndrewRT: I'd like to propose we say yes to #6
[21:01] AndrewRT: any questions?
[21:01] AndrewRT: I'll volunteer for that in the absense of others
[21:01] mpeel: can you elaborate a little on what they're after?
[21:02] AndrewRT: WMID need WMF to write "letters of introduction" for WMID members
[21:02] AndrewRT: i think it's so they can get a visa
[21:02] AndrewRT: WMF have said fine but we don't want to have to translate poor english
[21:02] AndrewRT: and suggested they approach another chapter
[21:03] AndrewRT: so WMID approached us!
[21:03] AndrewRT: I think it's good to help our fellow chapters, particularly one like WMID
[21:03] mpeel: I'm surprised that the WMF wasn't willing to help them directly
[21:03] AndrewRT: who are from a devloping country (one of teh few chapters that are)
[21:04] skenmy: This is good chapter relations
[21:04] mpeel: I agree with you - we should say yes, if we're able to help
[21:04] Seddon: yes i agree
[21:04] AndrewRT: mpeel - yes I am a bit too
[21:04] AndrewRT: ok, any volunteers or do I have to do it?
[21:04] Seddon: Ill happily do it
[21:04] AndrewRT: cheers thanks!
[21:05] AndrewRT: I'll forward you the details
[21:05] AndrewRT: anything else onmy report?
[21:05] mpeel: if you post them on the internal wiki, then we could all lend a hand (I assume they can't be made public)
[21:05] Seddon: i have question related to hmrc
[21:05] AndrewRT: tbh i think it's more a one person job that
[21:05] AndrewRT: seddon?
[21:05] mpeel: AndrewRT: ok
[21:06] Seddon: have we had a response from the reponse letter or do you think itll be the 6-10 week waiting period
[21:06] Seddon: ?
[21:06] AndrewRT: no response yet
[21:06] AndrewRT: i dont think it will be a full 6 weeks but we'll see!
[21:06] AndrewRT: per my conversation with charity com we should
[21:07] AndrewRT: send them our application without waiting for HMRC to respond
[21:08] skenmy: Let's get that moving
[21:08] mpeel: I've added an item to the agenda - "Application to Charities Commission (AT)"
[21:08] mpeel: following from reports
[21:09] mpeel: shall we continue?
[21:09] AndrewRT: please
[21:09] mpeel: Treasurer (TH)
[21:09] AndrewRT: if everyone's ok with my report
[21:09] mpeel: no report...
[21:09] mpeel: Chair (MP)
[21:09] AndrewRT: SV mentioned he had a new member
[21:09] mpeel: AndrewRT: has he sent in an application, or was he a potential member?
[21:10] • skenmy is unaware of this...
[21:10] AndrewRT: don know
[21:10] mpeel: this was mentioned in steve's emails
[21:10] mpeel: but I don't know how far it's progressed...
[21:10] AndrewRT: Science Online sounds interesting
[21:10] mpeel: my report is at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-07-07/Agenda/Chair%27s_Report
[21:10] AndrewRT: too late to get us a speaking slot this year I take it?
[21:11] mpeel: I can ask, if we think it's worth me talking about Wikimedia
[21:11] AndrewRT: sounds good
[21:11] mpeel: I was principally interested in going for the general discussions, and making aquaintances, though
[21:11] AndrewRT: if you can get us in, we could get someone else to do a talk
[21:12] mpeel: registration's open to anyone - see http://www.scienceonlinelondon.org/register.php
[21:12] mpeel: only 4 places left, though
[21:12] AndrewRT: their programme is still open
[21:12] AndrewRT: do you fancy following up, see if its worth getting a WMUK speaker in?
[21:13] AndrewRT: I'll do if no on else can
[21:13] You were granted voice by ChanServ.
[21:13] AndrewRT: AndrewRT>I'll do it if no one else can
[21:13] Seddon: Well we should get someone attending that
[21:13] AndrewRT: can someone voice mpeel?
[21:14] You were granted voice by ChanServ.
[21:14] skenmy: done
[21:14] You were granted voice by ChanServ.
[21:14] mpeel: ok, I'm back (and in the right channel). 
[21:15] AndrewRT: mpeel - Science Online
[21:15] mpeel: I'm happy to send them an email offering a talk on wikimedia/wikipedia
[21:15] mpeel: please action me on that
[21:15] AndrewRT: thanks
[21:15] AndrewRT: no other qs for the report
[21:16] mpeel: ok, Conferences (JS)
[21:16] mpeel: report at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-07-07/Agenda/Conferences%27s_Report
[21:16] Seddon: ok well as you can see, a submission has been sent via michael burns
[21:16] Seddon: (who is steve's line manager i think)
[21:17] Seddon: he knows one of the people running the conference
[21:17] Seddon: and is lobbying for a speaking spot for us
[21:17] Seddon: nothing guarenteed
[21:17] AndrewRT: looks good
[21:17] Seddon: and will depend on whether there are gaps in thier programme
[21:18] AndrewRT: who did you have in midn to do the talk?
[21:19] Seddon: well i dont mind doing it myself so long as its not the saturday, but im more than happy to let someone else do it if you guys feel having some older would mean we get taken more seriously 
[21:19] skenmy:                          
[21:20] AndrewRT: I should be able to do it as well
[21:20] Seddon: skenmy: nono really, its something that i have to be aware of, and i have to think whats in the best interests for the chapter
[21:20] mpeel: I'm happy with you doing it Seddon
[21:20] AndrewRT: shall we discuss closer to the time?
[21:21] Seddon: sure thing
[21:21] Seddon: once we know what day we will be speaking on, if we are even gonna be speaking will help
[21:21] Seddon: on a second note
[21:21] Seddon: im jsut talking in text with jonathan gray from the open knowledge foundation
[21:21] AndrewRT: btw, on a side note - could everyone add themselves to http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Speakers
[21:21] AndrewRT: seddon - ah excellent
[21:22] Seddon: andrew suggested about how we could joint host the open knowledge conference next march
[21:22] Seddon: it would make sense
[21:22] Seddon: given we have an unsure budget atm
[21:22] mpeel: that sounds like a great opportunity
[21:22] Seddon: and it would give us experience
[21:22] skenmy: I like the sound of that one
[21:23] AndrewRT: what does jg think of that idea?
[21:23] Seddon: we could either run our agm with it as well in the background
[21:23] mpeel: could you get details of the last open knowledge conference, in terms of e.g. how much the conference cost financially, etc.
[21:24] Seddon: he said it would be a great idea and suggested that we could run a whole WMUK track in the afternoon
[21:24] Seddon: but ill carry on talking with him about the conference
[21:24] Seddon: and one thing which i forgot to mention in the report
[21:24] mpeel: ah - ignore me, didn't realise that you were meaning our andrew. 
[21:24] Seddon:                          
[21:25] AndrewRT: hehe too many andrews in the world
[21:25] Seddon: yes ill get details on the previous and next conference
[21:25] Seddon: one last thing
[21:25] AndrewRT: yep?
[21:25] Seddon: Wikimedia France approached me to localise the video logo for them
[21:26] AndrewRT: thats good
[21:26] Seddon: so they seem to like it enough and ill work on that over the next few days
[21:26] Seddon: thats it from me
[21:26] AndrewRT: thanks for all that Seddon
[21:26] mpeel: all sounds great - thanks Seddon
[21:27] mpeel: # Corporate relations (SV)
[21:27] AndrewRT: Steve has been busy - see the emails
[21:27] mpeel: yup
[21:27] AndrewRT: with BBC, government on Crown Copyright
[21:27] AndrewRT: etc
[21:27] mpeel: (sorry - was just checking emails from him)
[21:27] AndrewRT: presume we'll get a full report at next meeting
[21:28] mpeel: "no time for any report" ... "most of what I have done the board knows from mails last week"
[21:28] AndrewRT: ah
[21:28] mpeel: 4.6 Volunteers report (PW)
[21:28] mpeel: skenmy?
[21:28] skenmy: Nothing to report, i'm afraid! Discussions with business card producers are still in progress, other than that nothing new this week.
[21:28] AndrewRT: could you ask him to do a full report next time?
[21:28] mpeel: AndrewRT: will do
[21:28] skenmy: Actions for the upcoming week:
[21:28] Seddon: skenmy: i need to grab you after this meeting
[21:28] AndrewRT: skenmy - how are we doing with membership drive issues?
[21:28] skenmy: Chase up / finalise business card design and order
[21:29] skenmy: Devlop membership drive further and begin "the push"
[21:29] skenmy: Develop and distribute newsletter
[21:29] skenmy: anything else I need to focus on?
[21:29] AndrewRT: that sounds plenty to keep you busy
[21:29] AndrewRT:                          
[21:29] mpeel: sounds like you have a busy week.  looking forward to seeing the outcome of those three.
[21:29] AndrewRT: when the July newsletter due out?
[21:29] skenmy: ASAP
[21:29] skenmy: I will write tomorrow
[21:30] skenmy: and submit to the ML for approval
[21:30] mpeel: should we set a deadline for distributing it?
[21:30] AndrewRT: I've put a couple of tips on the talk page
[21:30] AndrewRT:        http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Newsletter/July2009    
[21:30] skenmy: Noticed. Many thanks AT + MP
[21:30] mpeel: say, by the 14th (next Tuesday)?
[21:30] skenmy: mpeel - if it's not out by then I will eat my hat 
[21:30] mpeel: skenmy: I'll hold you to that. 
[21:30] skenmy: (a.k.a. I'm happy with that deadline)
[21:30] AndrewRT: when did teh Juen one get out?
[21:31] skenmy: late
[21:31] skenmy: (June, that is)
[21:31] mpeel: 24th
[21:31] AndrewRT: so 24-7=17
[21:31] AndrewRT: week on Friday
[21:32] AndrewRT: ur aiming for next Tuesday then
[21:32] skenmy: It's probably pertinent to note that I am out of the country 18th - 21st
[21:32] AndrewRT: is Tuesday a good day to have as a deadline?
[21:32] AndrewRT: maybe Sunday - end of the weekend would be better?
[21:32] skenmy: tuesday is the best day for a deadline for me
[21:32] AndrewRT: oh ok
[21:32] skenmy: it's the one day I have the evening dedicated to WMUK
[21:32] AndrewRT: do you want anyone else to write anything for it?
[21:32] mpeel: it may be wednesday before I can distribute around the wikis
[21:33] skenmy: if people wish to write, then please go ahead 
[21:33] AndrewRT: or are you ok driving it then
[21:33] skenmy: I can copyedit / flesh out ideas
[21:33] AndrewRT: please shout if you need a hand with any particular section
[21:33] skenmy: if you want to write an article, stick it in and I can copyedit
[21:33] mpeel: I'll keep adding bits to the press coverage section as and when I spot something
[21:33] skenmy: if you have ideas, on the talkpage and I can flesh
[21:33] skenmy: I shall shout if / when I need help!
[21:33] mpeel: will also try to do a write-up of this weekend's wikimeet (unless anyone else is willing)
[21:33] AndrewRT: cheers
[21:34] skenmy: is that this coming weekend?
[21:34] AndrewRT: I'll action PW, MP to get the newsletter out by Tuesday/Weds
[21:34] skenmy: latest approval date Tuesday
[21:34] mpeel: skenmy: yes, sunday
[21:34] skenmy: distribution Wednesday
[21:34] skenmy: I might be able to make that one...
[21:34] AndrewRT: ah excellent
[21:34] skenmy: (might also be an ideal opportunity to hand over the WMUK phone, mpeel?)
[21:35] mpeel: skenmy: my trip to poland's been delayed, not entirely sure when it will be
[21:35] skenmy: righty ho
[21:35] mpeel: will keep you + the board up to date as and when I know more
[21:35] skenmy: End from me, unless anything more?
[21:35] AndrewRT: thanks for the report skenmy
[21:36] skenmy: apologies for no wiki report
[21:36] mpeel: all sounds good - thanks skenmy
[21:36] mpeel: 5. Application to Charities Commission (AT)
[21:36] mpeel: AndrewRT?
[21:36] AndrewRT: one sec
[21:36] AndrewRT: just spoke to ZH
[21:36] AndrewRT: she'd be joining us in ~5mins
[21:36] AndrewRT: right Charity Comm
[21:36] mpeel: great
[21:37] AndrewRT: application form is here: http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/Library/publications/pdfs/cc5atext.pdf
[21:37] AndrewRT: can be filled in online
[21:37] AndrewRT: much of it is straightforward - name, address etc
[21:37] AndrewRT: section C is the difficult bit
[21:37] AndrewRT: "Assessing the organisation’s public benefit"
[21:38] AndrewRT: basically a big block of white paper which says "justify why you are a charity"
[21:38] AndrewRT: I suggest we shouldn't rush that
[21:38] mpeel: definitely - we should make that as good as we can
[21:39] AndrewRT: section D we should also think about
[21:39] AndrewRT: "Vulnerable people"
[21:39] AndrewRT: do we work with vulnerable people - i.e. children
[21:39] mpeel: D2 (c) needs checking
[21:39] mpeel: "(c) Are you allowed by law to carry out CRB checks on your trustees? "
[21:40] AndrewRT: well, first q is, do we fill in this section at all
[21:40] AndrewRT: "You must complete this section if your organisation works with children and/or vulnerable adults"
[21:40] Seddon: yes
[21:40] AndrewRT: does WMUK work with children?
[21:40] Seddon: we will be working with children
[21:40] mpeel: yes - work in schools
[21:40] AndrewRT: definitely?
[21:40] Seddon: I certainly think so
[21:40] mpeel: plus, a decent chunk of the wikimedia community... 
[21:40] AndrewRT: in that case, we should probably get a child protection policy in place as well
[21:41] AndrewRT: before we submit the form
[21:41] AndrewRT: actually we've talked about a lot of this before
[21:42] AndrewRT: right - actions
[21:42] AndrewRT: I suggest one person to start drafting the main form
[21:42] mpeel: the logical person for that would be you...
[21:42] AndrewRT: someone to draft the "Assessing the organisation’s public benefit"
[21:43] AndrewRT: and someone to do "Vulnerable people"
[21:43] AndrewRT: we could get one person to do it all, but it wont be done by next meeting!
[21:43] skenmy: I'm guessing at least one of those falls to me?
[21:43] AndrewRT: yes good point
[21:43] AndrewRT: Vulnerable Peopel is about volunteers!
[21:43] AndrewRT: or is it?
[21:44] skenmy: equal opportunities and whatnot
[21:44] mpeel: that seems a logical link to make
[21:44] skenmy: I can take that one
[21:44] Majorly left the chat room. (Connection timed out)
[21:44] AndrewRT: thanks skenmy
[21:44] mpeel: it's volunteers that will need CRB checks, I guess, in addition to possibly trustees
[21:44] AndrewRT: mpeel fancy volunteering for a chunk?
[21:44] mpeel: I can start drafting the assessment of public benefit
[21:45] AndrewRT: thanks
[21:45] AndrewRT: and I'll do the rest of the form
[21:45] skenmy: teamwork!
[21:45] mpeel: will do so on wiki - the more people that can lend a hand, the better... 
[21:45] skenmy: o/\o
[21:45] skenmy: ditto mpeel
[21:45] AndrewRT: can we all commit to haev a draft ready to review by next mtg?
[21:45] mpeel: we should definitely commit to that
[21:45] AndrewRT: assumign its in a fortnights time
[21:45] skenmy: do we have a word count?
[21:45] mpeel: preferably sooner...
[21:45] skenmy: or is it just go for it
[21:46] AndrewRT: skenmy - no, but you can see how bug a white space is there on tge form
[21:46] AndrewRT:        http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/Library/publications/pdfs/cc5atext.pdf    
[21:46] AndrewRT: _big_
[21:46] zeyi joined the chat room.
[21:46] mpeel: I guess it should be as succinct as possible - no point in having waffle - but also as long as is necessary
[21:46] AndrewRT: hi zeyi!
[21:46] mpeel: good evening zeyi
[21:47] zeyi was granted voice by ChanServ.
[21:47] AndrewRT: right we all ok with charity commission for now?
[21:48] zeyi: hi, mike, may i just catch up your process
[21:48] AndrewRT:        http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-07-07/Agenda    
[21:48] AndrewRT: we're at #5
[21:48] mpeel: what Andrew said... 
[21:48] AndrewRT: just about to start your section Zeyi!
[21:49] zeyi: ok
[21:49] AndrewRT: mpeel?
[21:49] mpeel: 6. Initiatives (ZH)
[21:49] zeyi: first, We need to set up the initiatives, which we have discussed last week
[21:50] zeyi: members agree to set up the activities with schools
[21:50] zeyi: Mike, can you introduce it as you were there?
[21:50] AndrewRT: sorry, what do you mean by "set up"?
[21:51] zeyi: the attended members agreed to do the school activity as one of three initiatives
[21:52] AndrewRT: well, that's a decision for the board to make
[21:52] mpeel: not quite sure how to introduce it ... there was a fair amount (~ 1 hour) of discussion about how to go about the schools project
[21:52] AndrewRT: which we should be making today
[21:52] zeyi: oh, sorry for the word,
[21:52] mpeel: I'll post the logs onto the board wiki, and will ask people's approval to make it public.
[21:52] AndrewRT: have we got many volunteers who are interested in gettign involved with that project?
[21:52] zeyi: they suggested to do the school project,
[21:52] • skenmy waves
[21:53] AndrewRT: that;s one 
[21:53] mpeel: information / discussion is on the project is at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Initiatives/Proposals/Schools_project
[21:53] mpeel: skenmy: ?
[21:53] mpeel: ah - skenmy has volunteered
[21:53] skenmy: I'm happy to volunteer for this
[21:53] mpeel: also ironholds
[21:53] skenmy: as I was the one who developed it
[21:54] zeyi: so can we discuss do we agree to do it?
[21:54] mpeel: it's worth noting that this project has essentially been funded, via the WMF grant
[21:54] AndrewRT: yes I think we should
[21:54] mpeel: so we should definitely do it
[21:54] • skenmy nods
[21:54] skenmy: there is £2,000 available incompatible encoding
[21:54] AndrewRT: what can we _complete_ by AGM?
[21:54] AndrewRT: in respect of this project?
[21:54] mpeel: talks given in N schools?
[21:54] skenmy: a target number of workshops held?
[21:55] AndrewRT: how many do you suggest skenmy?
[21:55] AndrewRT: mpeel?
[21:55] mpeel: I would suggest ~ half a dozen by the end of the year as a minimum
[21:55] zeyi: great, we need to start with some target schools firstly, as members have geographic contacts probably
[21:56] skenmy: I work in a school
[21:56] mpeel: (end of year = 2009)
[21:56] AndrewRT: ok 6 sounds good
[21:56] skenmy: I am having loads of workshop ideas floting in my head
[21:56] Seddon: i think that september is where we need to target
[21:56] mpeel: we have until september to get things ready, and make first contact
[21:56] zeyi: I agree as the new term start
[21:56] mpeel: then when the schools start, it's time to start going into schools...
[21:56] skenmy: agreed
[21:57] skenmy: there is 1 week left of school right now
[21:57] skenmy: then it's the summer break
[21:57] zeyi: what things we have to done by contacting schools?
[21:57] zeyi: can we please list them?
[21:58] AndrewRT: whose the best person to lead this intiative?
[21:58] AndrewRT: skenmy?
[21:58] skenmy: I'm willing to lead.
[21:58] skenmy: my mind is ticking over with ideas right now
[21:59] skenmy: we can centre the workshops on improving the school's own wikipedia entry
[21:59] skenmy: by fact-finding
[21:59] skenmy: taking photographs
[21:59] skenmy: etc
[21:59] AndrewRT: I'm happy with skenmy leading
[21:59] mpeel: that's a really good idea - proviso WP:COI
[21:59] skenmy: yup yup
[21:59] AndrewRT: everyone else ok?
[21:59] Seddon: yep i like that
[21:59] zeyi: yes, ok for me.
[22:00] mpeel: interestingly, it's the opposite approach to that generally taken with talking to museums... 
[22:00] skenmy: I improved my own school's WP entry while avoiding POV and COI
[22:00] skenmy: so I know it is possible
[22:00] mpeel: I'm more than happy for skenmy to lead this
[22:00] AndrewRT: shall we action skenmy to set off on this?
[22:00] skenmy: action away
[22:00] zeyi: great, it is possible the example to show other potential schools
[22:00] • skenmy adds to newsletter...
[22:00] AndrewRT: shall we decide on two more initiatives?
[22:00] skenmy: I will pilot any scheme in my own school first
[22:01] AndrewRT: good idea
[22:01] mpeel: are they on board for doing that?
[22:01] zeyi: yes, that's good as a example
[22:01] zeyi: can we just call volunteers from all members?
[22:01] AndrewRT: yes indeed
[22:01] mpeel: Tango42: I spoke to my mum (a primary school teacher) about how to contact schools and she suggested going on the BECTA online forums and asking people there for advice or even if they would like us to come into their schools
[22:01] AndrewRT: get members involved
[22:01] skenmy: mpeel - There will be no objection 
[22:02] skenmy: if not
[22:02] skenmy: I have links to all schools in the East of England
[22:02] zeyi: great
[22:02] AndrewRT: skenmy - you can use http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Speakers for this too
[22:03] skenmy: yup!
[22:03] AndrewRT: shall we move onto the other two initiatives?
[22:04] zeyi: skenmy-can you put your original ideas on web to call vonlunteers and suggestions, linking to initiative web?
[22:04] AndrewRT: i think another one with most promise is http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Initiatives/Proposals/London_Loves_Wikipedia
[22:04] skenmy: sure can
[22:04] skenmy: I will develop the wiki page
[22:04] zeyi: thanks!
[22:05] mpeel: AndrewRT: I definitely think that one's worth taking forward
[22:06] AndrewRT: it needs expanding
[22:06] AndrewRT: and it needs someone to lead
[22:06] zeyi: Skenmy-I create a red link in the initiative, please develop a new wiki page.
[22:06] mpeel: are you leading this, Andrew?
[22:06] skenmy: at this point i'm afraid I must dip out
[22:06] AndrewRT: I can't I'm afraid
[22:06] skenmy: thanks all
[22:06] AndrewRT: cheers skenmy
[22:07] AndrewRT: I have to go soon too
[22:07] mpeel: thanks skenmy for coming
[22:07] mpeel: AndrewRT: when you leave, we're no longer quorate
[22:07] AndrewRT: is everyone ok to adopt LLW/WLA as our #2?
[22:07] AndrewRT: mpeel: yes indeed
[22:07] zeyi: yes, and as you know it best, who do you think is able to lead it?
[22:08] AndrewRT: we dont have to get a leader yet
[22:08] AndrewRT: per http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Initiatives
[22:08] mpeel: it logically fits in with me talking to museums etc.
[22:08] AndrewRT: I can help and assist but would prefer someone else to lead
[22:08] mpeel: so I would broadly be happy to lead if necessary.
[22:08] AndrewRT: shall we put it out to the email list?
[22:08] AndrewRT: ask for a volunteer?
[22:09] mpeel: ask for volunteers in general, rather than asking for a lead
[22:09] mpeel: then see whether someone willing & able to lead emerges
[22:09] AndrewRT: huh?
[22:09] AndrewRT: we need a lead
[22:10] AndrewRT: although I suppose you've put your name forward as a backstop
[22:10] Majorly_ joined the chat room.
[22:10] AndrewRT: do you want to send the email then?
[22:10] mpeel: ok, I can do
[22:10] AndrewRT: seddon, zeyi, are you both happy to have Britain/London Loves Wikipedia as our #2 initiative?
[22:11] Seddon: indeed, given the success of wikipedia loves art, we should expand
[22:11] AndrewRT: ok I have three potential suggestions for inititative #3
[22:11] mpeel: we should try to do better than Wiki Loves Art in the Netherlands has done last month... 
[22:11] zeyi: yes, definitely
[22:12] zeyi: and I am willing to assist it
[22:12] AndrewRT: 1) (possibly cheating) my interview with Imperial College
[22:12] AndrewRT: although not participative, it may have a very significant impact on acheiving our mission
[22:12] mpeel: that should be listed as an initiative (a completed one?), but probably shouldn't be in the three...
[22:13] AndrewRT: indeed, it would be a completed one
[22:13] AndrewRT: 2) BBC lunch & learn
[22:13] AndrewRT: per Steve's emails
[22:13] AndrewRT: looks like we could say we'd have completed, say, three by next AGM
[22:14] AndrewRT: 3) some kind of "content access" work
[22:14] AndrewRT: we have funding for that but no initiative
[22:14] AndrewRT: so we need to think of something to do with the money!
[22:15] AndrewRT: any preference for our #3 or any other ideas?
[22:15] AndrewRT: anything else from http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Initiatives/Proposals stand out?
[22:15] mpeel: (2) is something that's being developed, rather than something that will definitely take place
[22:15] mpeel: so I think that's best continuing to be developed rather than adopted as an initiative now.
[22:15] zeyi: I would like to discuss with Steve's BBC idea first, see if it is ok to complete on time
[22:16] mpeel: (3) we've possibly been a little too successful in getting money with this...
[22:16] AndrewRT: if we want to keep to our timetable at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Initiative#Timeline
[22:16] AndrewRT: we need to decide on the three tonight
[22:16] AndrewRT: we could provisionally agree and confirm later
[22:16] mpeel: funding-wise, content access work is the appropriate one to develop
[22:17] AndrewRT: do you have anything in mind?
[22:17] zeyi: may i confirm what content access work really mean?
[22:17] mpeel: basically, encouraging museums etc. to release their work online such that Wikipedia et al. can use it.
[22:17] Seddon: releasing content from archives
[22:17] mpeel: mostly in terms of photographs/videos/audio from archives
[22:18] AndrewRT: not really participative that one
[22:18] mpeel: the main task is getting to museums and talking to them about doing that
[22:18] AndrewRT: - when we discussed this at the last meeting we said we'd focus on participative initiatives
[22:18] mpeel: an aspect of that would potentially be to do some behind-the-scenes tours for members
[22:18] AndrewRT: so it coudl drive membership etc
[22:18] AndrewRT: oh ok
[22:18] mpeel: during which we could e.g. work on wikipedia articles about specific objects
[22:19] mpeel: so that has the potential to be participative
[22:20] AndrewRT: tbh I think the BBC idea seems more developed than the content access idea
[22:20] AndrewRT: although they're both really only "half" ideas
[22:20] mpeel: yes, it is - but that focuses one one specific company, whereas this focuses on many
[22:20] AndrewRT: how about we adopt them both and decide to do at least one of them
[22:20] mpeel: so there's much less of a single-mode-failure issue here
[22:20] AndrewRT: later on
[22:21] mpeel: is the BBC idea actually an initiative?
[22:21] mpeel: tbh, I view it almost as a subset of cultural partnerships, at least at the moment...
[22:22] mpeel: zeyi, Seddon, what are your thoughts on this?
[22:22] AndrewRT: the BBc lunch and learns are a specific idea, which is what we need
[22:22] Seddon: i agree, the bbc learning lunches is part part of building an ongoing relationship with the bbc
[22:22] AndrewRT: I'm going to have to go now, so can we get to a decision on this
[22:23] mpeel: Shall we say that the third initiative is "cultural partnerships", broadly defined?
[22:23] Seddon: yep ok
[22:23] mpeel: with the aim of running at least 2-3 related events prior to the AGM
[22:23] AndrewRT: i think that's a good way of getting nothing done
[22:23] zeyi: I vote for BBC first, and will wait for discussing with steve see timetable?
[22:24] zeyi: ok,
[22:24] AndrewRT: have you come across SMART
[22:24] AndrewRT: specific, measured, realistic, time defined
[22:24] mpeel: yes
[22:24] AndrewRT: that's what we need for our initiative
[22:24] zeyi: "cultural partnership"
[22:24] Seddon: schools, bbc learning lunches, and london loves wiki
[22:24] mpeel: ok, then I don't think this is the best time to come to a decision on this.
[22:25] zeyi: agree with seddon
[22:25] AndrewRT: i agree with Seddon - schood, bbc, llw
[22:25] Seddon: anything else is a bonus, but i expect that those should be completed
[22:25] mpeel: it would be better to get Steve involved with a discussion about bbc learning lunches before deciding on it as an "initiative"
[22:25] AndrewRT: hopefully content access can be a fourth anyway
[22:25] Seddon: indeed
[22:25] AndrewRT: how about bbc tentative, to be confirmed at next meeting when steve is here?
[22:26] Seddon: agreed
[22:26] mpeel: ok
[22:26] AndrewRT: great!
[22:26] mpeel: moving on, 7. AOB?
[22:26] Seddon: none
[22:26] AndrewRT: none from me
[22:27] mpeel: none here
[22:27] mpeel: zeyi?
[22:27] mpeel: 8. Date & content of next meeting
[22:27] mpeel: date - 21 July, 8.30pm?
[22:27] AndrewRT: fortnight = 21st
[22:27] AndrewRT: fine by me
[22:27] mpeel: or is there a better time/day?
[22:27] mpeel: (again, zeyi?)
[22:27] AndrewRT: content - per http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Initiative#Timeline, agree initiative leads
[22:28] AndrewRT: and volunteer lists
[22:28] mpeel: I'll add agenda items for all 3 initiatives
[22:28] AndrewRT: review charity commission
[22:28] mpeel: do we want to discuss membership or finance?
[22:28] mpeel: or can they wait for the next?
[22:28] AndrewRT: not really
[22:28] AndrewRT: what do we need to discuss on those?
[22:29] mpeel: finance is probably just a report, actually
[22:29] mpeel: membership - progress, plan going forward
[22:29] mpeel: again can probably be a report, expanded if necessary.
[22:29] AndrewRT: maybe meeting after?
[22:29] AndrewRT: charity com plus initiatives will take quite a while i imagine
[22:29] mpeel: ok, sounds good
[22:29] mpeel: that's the meeting done, then - thanks all for coming
[22:30] AndrewRT: thanks everyone
[22:30] AndrewRT: speak to you soon

#wikimedia-uk

[20:30] mpeel: Board meeting is starting now in #wikimedia-uk-board
[20:40] cimon joined the chat room.
[20:58] Reedy_ joined the chat room.
[20:58] AndrewRT: Tango42 - question for you re your action:
[20:58] AndrewRT: is it better to wait until we have something specific t ask for?
[20:58] AndrewRT: or are you confident the gazette will be able to get us an on call lawyer without needing specifics?
[21:00] Tango42: i'm not confident about anything
[21:00] Tango42: i think it's worth a shot, though
[21:00] Tango42: we do have specific things to ask for, though
[21:00] Tango42: the chapter agreement and charity registration
[21:01] AndrewRT: yep
[21:01] AndrewRT: ok thanks, I'll leave it as cf
[21:01] mpeel: Tango42: I'm worried that those two aren't at the point right now when they can be effectively discussed with a lawyer
[21:02] mpeel: chapter agreement is tending towards higher level, strategic discussions
[21:02] mpeel: charity registration - the situation's changed with the WMF grant, and (although I haven't looked at it yet) I'm not sure that we need a lawyer to write the CC application.
[21:03] Tango42: still good to have a chat with a lawyer about both
[21:03] Tango42: it won't be a quick thing to get one anyway
[21:04] mpeel: It will take longer if we haven't got something interesting for them to start doing straight off
[21:04] mpeel: I'm not sure that a chat would be a good hook.
[21:07] Tango42: Why do WMID members need visas? And to were?
[21:08] Tango42: *wher
[21:08] Tango42: iuewhiawuehawgtihuarg
[21:08] Tango42: *where
[21:08] AndrewRT: er dont know
[21:08] mpeel: I assume Wikimedia
[21:08] AndrewRT: I'll update you when we find out
[21:08] mpeel: * Wikimania
[21:08] AndrewRT: possible Wikimania
[21:09] Tango42: i think we need to know what the letters of introduction are for before we write them
[21:09] Seddon: Tango: they have written them but need the english to be improved i presume
[21:09] Seddon: ill get in touch with cary and see if i can get some info
[21:09] Tango42: and don't you generally need to know someone before you can introduce them?
[21:09] Tango42: So they just want us as translators?
[21:09] Seddon: yep
[21:10] Tango42: Surely they have people with good English skills...
[21:10] Seddon: were not even a middle man, just a chapter helping another
[21:11] Tango42: it just seems rather odd
[21:11] Tango42: I think we should know exactly what we are doing before we do it
[21:11] Reedy left the chat room. (No route to host)
[21:11] AndrewRT: Tango42>Surely they have people with good English skills...
[21:12] AndrewRT: why would you think that?
[21:12] AndrewRT: This is indonesia we're talking about here, developing country
[21:13] mpeel: sorry - can't send messages in #wikimedia-uk-board atm...
[21:13] mpeel: I'm happy to send them an email offering a talk on wikimedia/wikipedia
[21:14] Tango42: It may be developing, but presumably the people involved in the chapter are the wealthier, better educated members of the population
[21:14] mpeel: it's a problem on my end .... brb
[21:14] You were granted voice by ChanServ.
[21:14] mpeel: ok, I'm back
[21:14] AndrewRT: I'm not sure whether english is the lingua franca there or not
[21:14] Tango42: lingua francas don't have locations, that's the point
[21:15] AndrewRT: i know the chapter people we speak to on teh list don't have too good english
[21:16] Tango42: I don't have an objection to us helping them, I'm just confused by why they need our help
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[21:41] Seddon:        http://www.research-live.com/events/one-day-conferences/the-5th-annual-online-research-conference-30-sept-2009/4000078.article    
[21:41] Seddon: this might be a worthwhile conference to attend
[21:42] Seddon: its not an open knowledge conference so to speak
[21:42] Seddon: but it certainly is within the realms of what we do
[21:43] Seddon: ok i take that back
[21:43] Seddon: we dont have the money right now
[21:43] AndrewRT: we have £500 remember
[21:43] Seddon: This is £345 to attend
[21:44] Seddon: maybe even £500 as we arnt a MRS member
[21:44] Seddon: and that doesnt include vat
[21:44] Majorly left the chat room. (Connection timed out)
[21:44] Seddon: so that £575
[21:46] zeyi joined the chat room.
[21:46] Seddon: I could email and find out if they would be willing to allow us to attend for free
[21:46] Majorly_ left the chat room. (Connection timed out)
[21:46] mpeel: it's always worth asking
[22:01] Tango42: I spoke to my mum (a primary school teacher) about how to contact schools and she suggested going on the BECTA online forums and asking people there for advice or even if they would like us to come into their schools
[22:02] AndrewRT: thanks
[22:17] Tango42: interviews and the BBC thing don't sound like initiatives to me, they are valuable activities, but they don't directly do anything
[22:18] AndrewRT: the interview did do lots
[22:19] AndrewRT: it's going to reach over 1000 university lecturers
[22:19] AndrewRT: and through them tens of thousands of students
[22:19] AndrewRT: who will then be inspired to contribute content to WP
[22:20] Tango42: It's a good way to increase awareness, but i don't think it will directly do much. If we're only going to do a small number of things they need to all be big things that will look good in press releases, etc.
[22:21] AndrewRT: we'll see. I think it will do a hige amount, far more than, say, Wikipedia Loves Art
[22:21] Tango42: I'm worried you are trying to find things you can count towards your target rather than actually doing 3 initatives
[22:23] Tango42: no!
[22:23] Tango42: don't broadly define things
[22:23] Tango42: that's just deciding to do nothing
[22:23] Tango42: you'll just define it after the event to be whatever it is you actually did
[22:26] Tango42: SMART targets are good, this BBC thing doesn't seem to be measurable to me. You can't quantify whatever it is that it achieves
[22:26] AndrewRT: how about 3 meetings with 20 people there?
[22:26] Tango42: meeting people isn't on our list of objectives
[22:27] Tango42: you need a [S]pecific thing you intend to achieve
[22:27] Seddon: Tango: holding a learning lunch is measurable
[22:28] Tango42: not unless it results in something happening and you can't know what it will result in. That means it isn't specific.
[22:30] AndrewRT: thanks all