Meetings/2009-07-21/IRC

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[2009-07-21 20:42:52] <steve_> Hi all
[2009-07-21 20:42:52] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk-board -o mpeel  by ChanServ
[2009-07-21 20:43:01] <AndrewRT> hi steve
[2009-07-21 20:43:03] <Zeyi_> hi, everyone!
[2009-07-21 20:43:05] <AndrewRT> how was south africa?
[2009-07-21 20:43:21] <steve_> very busy spent all week and today and yesterday playing catch up
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[2009-07-21 20:43:36] <AndrewRT> :)
[2009-07-21 20:43:40] <steve_> had a big piece on it in PR Week last week too
[2009-07-21 20:44:00] <steve_> client is South African Tourism (world cup 2010 and all that)
[2009-07-21 20:44:09] <AndrewRT> mpeel we ready to start?
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[2009-07-21 20:44:26] <mpeel> yup; sorry computer locked for a second
[2009-07-21 20:44:28] <AndrewRT> steve_ sounds like lots of work!
[2009-07-21 20:44:36] <mpeel> ok, agenda is at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-07-21/Agenda
[2009-07-21 20:44:55] <mpeel> 2. Apologies for Absence - Skenmy's given his apologies, and Seddon will be here at about 21.15.
[2009-07-21 20:45:02] <mpeel> ... that was of course 1., not 2.
[2009-07-21 20:45:09] <mpeel> 2. Minutes of Meeting dated 2009-07-07 - approval & actions
[2009-07-21 20:45:23] <mpeel> minutes are at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-07-07 - is everyone happy with them?
[2009-07-21 20:45:41] <steve_> no views as I was away in SA
[2009-07-21 20:46:06] <AndrewRT> looks like only you and me were there, mpeel
[2009-07-21 20:46:11] <AndrewRT> are you happy with them?
[2009-07-21 20:46:29] <mpeel> zeyi was there, but a little later
[2009-07-21 20:46:41] <AndrewRT> zeyi - are you happy with the minutes for the bit you were there?
[2009-07-21 20:46:44] <mpeel> I'm happy with them, following from the couple of modifications I've made.
[2009-07-21 20:46:52] <Zeyi_> i am here!
[2009-07-21 20:47:05] <mpeel> most notably http://uk.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Meetings/2009-07-07&diff=4728&oldid=4718
[2009-07-21 20:47:09] <Zeyi_> yes, I was ok for all the content I knew
[2009-07-21 20:47:15] <steve_> who am I to object 
[2009-07-21 20:47:19] <steve_> so i will not
[2009-07-21 20:47:30] <AndrewRT> I didnt understand that mpeel
[2009-07-21 20:47:33] <AndrewRT> could you explain
[2009-07-21 20:47:56] <AndrewRT> i dont recall discussing using a portal
[2009-07-21 20:48:22] <mpeel> AndrewRT: see http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-07-07/IRC
[2009-07-21 20:48:30] <mpeel> search for "portal" (around 20:49)
[2009-07-21 20:48:47] <mpeel> e.g. what wikipedia.de have
[2009-07-21 20:49:03] <mpeel> which ultimately redirects users to de.wikipedia.org , rather than wikimedia.de
[2009-07-21 20:49:14] <AndrewRT> ok thats fine then
[2009-07-21 20:49:51] <mpeel> let's take that as the minutes approved
[2009-07-21 20:49:53] <AndrewRT> ok so that minutes approved then?
[2009-07-21 20:49:56] <mpeel> AndrewRT: do you want to take us through the actions?
[2009-07-21 20:50:01] <AndrewRT> sure
[2009-07-21 20:50:24] <AndrewRT> just to start, we seem to have a bit of a problem with actions at the moment
[2009-07-21 20:50:42] <AndrewRT> i.e. people agree to do things and then they end up not getting done
[2009-07-21 20:50:53] <AndrewRT> (a lot of crosses on that page!)
[2009-07-21 20:51:01] <Zeyi_> :) i agree
[2009-07-21 20:51:02] <AndrewRT> I know I'm as guilty as anyone else
[2009-07-21 20:51:15] <mpeel> what's the best solution? Less actions, or more prodding of people to do them?
[2009-07-21 20:51:16] <AndrewRT> but is there something we can do to keep on top of these?
[2009-07-21 20:51:34] <AndrewRT> I've been following up actions before meetings and that has had some impact
[2009-07-21 20:51:42] <cfp> i think the system's as good as it could be. the odd prod might not hurt i guess
[2009-07-21 20:51:43] <AndrewRT> shoudl I do more of this?
[2009-07-21 20:51:57] <mpeel> if we're having a bi-weekly meeting, would it be worth a reminder a week after the meeting?
[2009-07-21 20:52:14] <AndrewRT> that makes sense
[2009-07-21 20:52:30] <AndrewRT> would that be helpful - steve_, zeyi_?
[2009-07-21 20:52:35] <steve_> yes
[2009-07-21 20:52:48] <steve_> Being very busy a memory jogger is useful
[2009-07-21 20:52:49] <cfp> yes that sounds sensible. the few times i've been prodded and it's had an effect it's been because i've genuinely forgotten aobut an action (or wasn't aware i'd been given it).
[2009-07-21 20:53:04] <AndrewRT> also, can people shout up if they're not sure how to complete an action
[2009-07-21 20:53:09] <mpeel> cfp: they are listed on the minutes... :-)
[2009-07-21 20:53:10] <AndrewRT> or if they wont be able to do it for a time
[2009-07-21 20:53:22] <AndrewRT> mpeel - that's no guarantee!
[2009-07-21 20:53:30] <steve_> although sometimes obstacles do occur to stop an action moving forward and it just drifts
[2009-07-21 20:53:44] <steve_> BBC learning Lunches is one
[2009-07-21 20:54:02] <AndrewRT> I think we should also be more open to dropping actions when situations change
[2009-07-21 20:54:16] <steve_> or postponing them
[2009-07-21 20:54:39] <mpeel> sure, so long as it can be justified...
[2009-07-21 20:54:50] <AndrewRT> should we also put times on actions - e.g. do this by +1mth
[2009-07-21 20:55:07] <mpeel> most actions should be for the next meeting
[2009-07-21 20:55:14] <AndrewRT> not all
[2009-07-21 20:55:17] <steve_> no that's silly in my view - everyone will try and do it as soon as they can anyway
[2009-07-21 20:55:20] <AndrewRT> some can wait for longer
[2009-07-21 20:55:34] <cfp> yes yes but the minutes don't go up immediately. and it's easy to forget to check them if you're busy
[2009-07-21 20:55:43] <Zeyi_> yes, i think 2 weeks can make some progress
[2009-07-21 20:55:52] <mpeel> we should aim to have most of them done by the next meeting. :-) If that's not possible, then a guideline as to how long it will take would be useful.
[2009-07-21 20:55:59] <steve_> I like th weekly prods
[2009-07-21 20:56:12] <AndrewRT> I'll do that then going forward
[2009-07-21 20:56:16] <AndrewRT> ont othe details
[2009-07-21 20:56:31] <AndrewRT> all the follow up from the actions are listed at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-07-07
[2009-07-21 20:56:48] <AndrewRT> First one I'd like to mention: 1. JS to send the tokens of our appreciation to the retiring Directors, tellers and external speakers.
[2009-07-21 20:56:59] <AndrewRT> thi action has been outstanding since teh AGM
[2009-07-21 20:57:07] <AndrewRT> is it worth doing it now, or should we drop it?
[2009-07-21 20:57:20] <mpeel> As I understand it, tokens exist, it's just that they're not mailed
[2009-07-21 20:57:26] <AndrewRT> yes thats right
[2009-07-21 20:57:29] <mpeel> I think this is something best discussed when Seddon's around.
[2009-07-21 20:58:07] <AndrewRT> ok
[2009-07-21 20:58:16] <AndrewRT> the other items are pretty self-explanatory
[2009-07-21 20:58:29] <AndrewRT> and will be discussed in teh relevant sections
[2009-07-21 20:58:38] <AndrewRT> are there any items anyone wants to raise?
[2009-07-21 20:59:10] <mpeel> none here
[2009-07-21 20:59:19] <mpeel> (wrt the actions, anyhow)
[2009-07-21 20:59:32] <AndrewRT> Steve_, Zeyi_, cfp?
[2009-07-21 20:59:49] <Zeyi_>   none here as well
[2009-07-21 20:59:54] <cfp> nope.
[2009-07-21 20:59:58] <steve_> wasn't the tokens issue dependent on 'cash' which for several weeks was a problem
[2009-07-21 21:00:13] <steve_> no it no longer is - I cannot see why it cannot be resolved now
[2009-07-21 21:00:19] <mpeel> steve_: I think that was the central issue
[2009-07-21 21:01:15] <steve_> nothing more from me
[2009-07-21 21:01:18] <mpeel> shall we move on?
[2009-07-21 21:01:23] <mpeel> 3. Matters arising - are there any?
[2009-07-21 21:01:30] <AndrewRT> dont think so
[2009-07-21 21:01:35] <mpeel> in which case 4. Reports (5 mins/ea max) 
[2009-07-21 21:01:40] <mpeel> 4.1 # Secretary (AT)
[2009-07-21 21:01:45] <mpeel> which is at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-07-21/Agenda/Secretary%27s_Report
[2009-07-21 21:02:03] <AndrewRT> there a few things in there
[2009-07-21 21:02:10] <AndrewRT> but nothing that particularly needs discussing
[2009-07-21 21:02:16] <mpeel> AndrewRT: is there an eta on #2?
[2009-07-21 21:02:38] <AndrewRT> prob this week
[2009-07-21 21:02:38] <mpeel> also, what happened with #8?
[2009-07-21 21:02:57] <AndrewRT> just wanted to confirm the prizes were still available before sending this out
[2009-07-21 21:03:08] <AndrewRT> #8 - the interviewer has to rearrange
[2009-07-21 21:03:33] <mpeel> they're still interested, but the timing was wrong?
[2009-07-21 21:03:41] <AndrewRT> he was coming to nottingham for it you see
[2009-07-21 21:03:55] <AndrewRT> but couldnt make the date we arranged
[2009-07-21 21:04:16] <AndrewRT> It's up to him - I dont think WMUK will gain a hige amount from this so I'm happy to work round his schedule
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[2009-07-21 21:05:16] <AndrewRT> any other qs?
[2009-07-21 21:05:50] <steve_> no only well done on your talk
[2009-07-21 21:05:56] <AndrewRT> cheers
[2009-07-21 21:06:04] <mpeel> Thanks AndrewRT. Moving on (yell if we want to go back a step at any time)...
[2009-07-21 21:06:04] <AndrewRT> I posted a summary to the email list as well
[2009-07-21 21:06:06] <mpeel> 4.2 Treasurer (TH) - report at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-07-21/Agenda/Treasurer%27s_Report
[2009-07-21 21:06:12] <steve_> the first of many i hope
[2009-07-21 21:06:18] <cfp> any questions?
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[2009-07-21 21:06:33] <mpeel> AndrewRT: ditto the well done with your talk
[2009-07-21 21:06:37] <Seddon> sorry im late
[2009-07-21 21:06:48] <cfp> just on the treasurer's report seddon: http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-07-21/Agenda/Treasurer%27s_Report . questions?
[2009-07-21 21:07:10] <AndrewRT> looks good
[2009-07-21 21:07:12] <AndrewRT> thanks for that
[2009-07-21 21:07:23] <mpeel> cfp: I talked to someone here who may send in a membership application soonish.
[2009-07-21 21:07:42] <steve_> has my PR friend joined yet?
[2009-07-21 21:07:43] <mpeel> (here == on irc)
[2009-07-21 21:07:49] <cfp> no he hasn't.
[2009-07-21 21:08:02] <AndrewRT> I have a fb friend whose application is on its way too
[2009-07-21 21:08:03] <cfp> ok let me know if you want me to get in touch with him
[2009-07-21 21:08:04] <steve_> that's a surprise
[2009-07-21 21:08:06] <cfp> cool.
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[2009-07-21 21:08:33] <Seddon> ill check with jonathan gray from OKFN if its ok to send an invitation for membership to thier mailing list
[2009-07-21 21:08:46] <Seddon> i imagine we may get quite a few people interested 
[2009-07-21 21:09:00] <steve_> good move
[2009-07-21 21:09:12] <cfp> thanks seddon.
[2009-07-21 21:09:25] <mpeel> anything more with this?
[2009-07-21 21:09:35] <AndrewRT> nope
[2009-07-21 21:09:38] <Seddon> nothing more from me
[2009-07-21 21:09:43] <mpeel> 4.3 Chair's report - http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-07-21/Agenda/Chair%27s_Report
[2009-07-21 21:09:48] <mpeel> any questions?
[2009-07-21 21:10:02] <AndrewRT> well done on Science Online
[2009-07-21 21:10:06] <AndrewRT> that sounds like a good oppo
[2009-07-21 21:10:18] <mpeel> thanks ... could be interesting... :-)
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[2009-07-21 21:11:17] <mpeel> sorry zeyi - didn't notice that you didn't have voice
[2009-07-21 21:11:27] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk-board -o mpeel  by ChanServ
[2009-07-21 21:11:41] <zeyi> thanks
[2009-07-21 21:11:42] <mpeel> what do you all think to having a WMUK blog?
[2009-07-21 21:11:56] <AndrewRT> the Oxford Symposium - do you want a decision on who goes from this meeting?
[2009-07-21 21:11:57] <steve_> excellent idea - would be keen to participate
[2009-07-21 21:12:07] <mpeel> AndrewRT: good point
[2009-07-21 21:12:17] <zeyi> I think it is good, but do we need to think about what we should put on?
[2009-07-21 21:12:21] <mpeel> backstep... who should go to the oxford symposium?
[2009-07-21 21:12:37] <AndrewRT> am I right in thinking they've given us two places?
[2009-07-21 21:12:44] <Seddon> mpeel and cfp
[2009-07-21 21:12:50] <steve_> whose nearest and most appropriate 
[2009-07-21 21:12:53] <mpeel> they're going to see if we can get two places
[2009-07-21 21:12:56] <mpeel> it's not guaranteed
[2009-07-21 21:13:08] <cfp> ok. well i'd certainly be happy to go.
[2009-07-21 21:13:11] <AndrewRT> so one agreed, possibly two?
[2009-07-21 21:13:14] <steve_> CFP for sure - Mike if it is convenient
[2009-07-21 21:13:20] <mpeel> AndrewRT: that's how I read it.
[2009-07-21 21:13:32] <cfp> i might be able to wangle a place at the dinner anyway as i have a friend who's a fellow at st.catz
[2009-07-21 21:13:46] <AndrewRT> I'd suggest Mike as the #1 given he's had the contacts, cfp #2, and I'd like to go as #3
[2009-07-21 21:13:48] <steve_> yum yum
[2009-07-21 21:13:56] <AndrewRT> if we get a 3rd or if one of the others pull out
[2009-07-21 21:14:09] <mpeel> tbh AndrewRT that might be asking a bit too much from them
[2009-07-21 21:14:17] <mpeel> given that the meeting's only supposed to be for ~ 50 people
[2009-07-21 21:14:35] <AndrewRT> what if you or cfp cant make it at the last min?
[2009-07-21 21:15:03] <cfp> if you have a really strong desire to go Andrew I'm prepared to step aside. though i am literally next door...
[2009-07-21 21:15:08] <Seddon> when is this dinner?
[2009-07-21 21:15:17] <zeyi> I would like to suggest attending people to introduce the conference to our blog or email-list,
[2009-07-21 21:15:19] <mpeel> then a substitution would make sense - but I'm not sure whether we could go back to them by email now and ask them for 3 places.
[2009-07-21 21:15:23] <cfp> september 10th if i remember right
[2009-07-21 21:15:33] <AndrewRT> mpeel - that's fine
[2009-07-21 21:15:47] <Seddon> definitely wont be doing that :)
[2009-07-21 21:15:57] <mpeel> evening of the 10th is the "registration, reception and dinner", with the symposium on the 11th.
[2009-07-21 21:16:07] <steve_> we have our 'three' candidates - let's just see how many seats at the dinner we get and match it
[2009-07-21 21:16:09] <mpeel> zeyi: it's not a conference, it's a smallish meeting.
[2009-07-21 21:17:19] <AndrewRT> I'm conscious we have an awful lot to discuss this meeting, could we speed up a bit
[2009-07-21 21:17:28] <mpeel> ok, so are we decided on me, cfp, and Andrew if either me or cfp can't make it?
[2009-07-21 21:17:37] <Seddon> yep
[2009-07-21 21:17:42] <AndrewRT> I'm fine with that
[2009-07-21 21:17:43] <steve_> oui
[2009-07-21 21:17:49] <cfp> should be productive
[2009-07-21 21:17:49] <mpeel> ok, moving on
[2009-07-21 21:17:58] <zeyi> Mpeel: I know it is symposium, just consider people there have some interest points 
[2009-07-21 21:17:59] <AndrewRT> blog - do you want a decision on that today mpeel?
[2009-07-21 21:18:08] <mpeel> yes, if possible
[2009-07-21 21:18:23] <mpeel> we have a number of things in the pipeline that would make good blog posts-
[2009-07-21 21:18:23] <AndrewRT> i think it would be an excellent idea to have a WMUK blog
[2009-07-21 21:18:30] <AndrewRT> other chapters and the WMF do it too
[2009-07-21 21:18:31] <steve_> agree
[2009-07-21 21:18:35] <mpeel> e.g. the WLA prizes, Steve's twitter questionnaire, etc.
[2009-07-21 21:18:39] <AndrewRT> yep
[2009-07-21 21:18:47] <Seddon> yep
[2009-07-21 21:18:50] <AndrewRT> mpeel thanks for your offer to set this up
[2009-07-21 21:18:58] <mpeel> AndrewRT: no problem, please action me to do so
[2009-07-21 21:19:00] <AndrewRT> could you take this as an action
[2009-07-21 21:19:02] <AndrewRT> thx
[2009-07-21 21:19:09] <mpeel> there's a question of what level of approval we should have before posting a blog entry
[2009-07-21 21:19:16] <AndrewRT> I suggested we just say any board member can post
[2009-07-21 21:19:17] <zeyi> yes
[2009-07-21 21:19:31] <mpeel> should it be approved by a quorum, or are we happy to let any board member post when they're happy with what they've written?
[2009-07-21 21:19:35] <AndrewRT> or do we want to have more approval?
[2009-07-21 21:19:44] <AndrewRT> I dont think quorum is necessary
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[2009-07-21 21:19:52] <AndrewRT> haow about one other board member?
[2009-07-21 21:19:53] <Seddon> prehaps, blog post is sent to board 24 hours before posting
[2009-07-21 21:20:00] [INFO] This channel requires that you have registered and identified yourself with the network's nickname registration services (e.g. NickServ). Please see the documentation of this network's nickname registration services that should be found in the MOTD (/motd to display it).
[2009-07-21 21:20:03] <Seddon> if no issues after 24, then its posted?
[2009-07-21 21:20:04] <AndrewRT> yeah agree with Seddon
[2009-07-21 21:20:07] <mpeel> 24 hours seems a bit long
[2009-07-21 21:20:08] <steve_> like Mr Seddon's idea
[2009-07-21 21:20:12] <mpeel> especially if sometihng urgent comes up
[2009-07-21 21:20:24] <AndrewRT> mpeel - not really, given the kind of subjects
[2009-07-21 21:20:24] <Seddon> mpeel: 24 hours is fast for us :P
[2009-07-21 21:20:33] <AndrewRT> quite!
[2009-07-21 21:20:39] <mpeel> ok, let's go with that for now then. :-)
[2009-07-21 21:20:49] <AndrewRT> ok, so draft to email list then if no objections can post
[2009-07-21 21:20:56] <Seddon> indeed
[2009-07-21 21:21:03] <AndrewRT> that means board email list of course!
[2009-07-21 21:21:04] <mpeel> email list == board, or wikimediauk-l?
[2009-07-21 21:21:05] <cfp> blogger has a feature whereby posts can be held prior to publishing
[2009-07-21 21:21:19] <cfp> i'm sure other blogging clients have something similar
[2009-07-21 21:21:27] <AndrewRT> so does wordpress
[2009-07-21 21:21:28] <mpeel> I'd probably do an install of wordpress, as I'm familiar with that
[2009-07-21 21:21:35] <AndrewRT> that would make sense
[2009-07-21 21:21:40] <AndrewRT> where would you put it mpeel?
[2009-07-21 21:21:40] <steve_> wordpress works well I use it
[2009-07-21 21:21:52] <mpeel> http://blog.wikimedia.org.uk/
[2009-07-21 21:22:00] <mpeel> + http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/blog
[2009-07-21 21:22:18] <AndrewRT> okmakes sense
[2009-07-21 21:22:29] <mpeel> shall we move on?
[2009-07-21 21:22:41] <mpeel> 4.4 Conferences (JS) - Seddon?
[2009-07-21 21:22:57] <Seddon> http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-07-21/Agenda/Conferences%27s_Report
[2009-07-21 21:23:03] <Seddon> i just hastily wrote that up
[2009-07-21 21:23:16] <Seddon> but it pretty much covers everything
[2009-07-21 21:23:33] <steve_> I do not seem to be able to open these reports on my browser sorry
[2009-07-21 21:23:36] <AndrewRT> thanks for sorting out the "tokens"!
[2009-07-21 21:23:38] <mpeel> "Tokens of appreciation have been posted, should get to recipients over th next few days" - great
[2009-07-21 21:23:43] <mpeel> thanks for doing that
[2009-07-21 21:23:51] <AndrewRT> I'll update the actions on the minutes!
[2009-07-21 21:24:06] <mpeel> steve_: they are linked to from the agenda at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-07-21/Agenda
[2009-07-21 21:24:07] <Seddon> cfp: ill get a expenses form for the postage to you asap
[2009-07-21 21:24:20] <mpeel> (or visit the Wikimedia UK website, and click on "agenda" on the top of the main page)
[2009-07-21 21:24:27] <AndrewRT> you wanted to discuss the OKFN /WMUK conference?
[2009-07-21 21:24:29] <cfp> Seddon: fine.
[2009-07-21 21:25:41] <mpeel> Seddon: OKFN?
[2009-07-21 21:25:54] <Seddon> Open Knowledge Foundation
[2009-07-21 21:26:31] <mpeel> you wanted to discuss?
[2009-07-21 21:26:32] <AndrewRT> did you want to discuss this Seddon?
[2009-07-21 21:26:33] <Seddon> they have said that they would be more than pleased to have Wikimedia UK as a partner
[2009-07-21 21:26:43] <AndrewRT> great news, what happens next?
[2009-07-21 21:27:17] <Seddon> well i need to see if we have ay volunteers suitable to be on the research track programme committee
[2009-07-21 21:27:33] <Seddon> but before that
[2009-07-21 21:27:49] <Seddon> i wanted to ensure that all board members are happy for this to occur
[2009-07-21 21:27:57] <steve_> very happy
[2009-07-21 21:28:00] <AndrewRT> yes I think we agreed that last meeting
[2009-07-21 21:28:04] <mpeel> what will we need to do/provide?
[2009-07-21 21:28:14] <AndrewRT> what's the "research track programme committee"?
[2009-07-21 21:28:35] <Seddon> well one of the tracks at the conference will be research into open knowledge etc
[2009-07-21 21:29:04] <AndrewRT> is that the only committee we'll be involved in?
[2009-07-21 21:29:05] <Seddon> this committee will decide on the papers and talk that will occur in that track
[2009-07-21 21:29:17] <Seddon> no, its likely ther will be other
[2009-07-21 21:29:18] <AndrewRT> only track I should say
[2009-07-21 21:29:26] <AndrewRT> but this is the main one?
[2009-07-21 21:29:31] <Seddon> no
[2009-07-21 21:29:37] <Seddon> there will be several
[2009-07-21 21:29:46] <Seddon> they have suggested that WMUK have a track of its own
[2009-07-21 21:29:52] <AndrewRT> is there an overall conference committee?
[2009-07-21 21:29:53] |<-- zeyi has left irc.freenode.net (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
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[2009-07-21 21:30:00] <Seddon> AndrewRT: yes
[2009-07-21 21:30:07] <AndrewRT> will we be on that>
[2009-07-21 21:30:08] <AndrewRT> ?
[2009-07-21 21:30:18] <Seddon> yep
[2009-07-21 21:30:25] <Seddon> ill prob volunteer myself for that
[2009-07-21 21:30:29] <AndrewRT> ah great
[2009-07-21 21:30:39] <AndrewRT> I guess thats the next step then
[2009-07-21 21:30:54] <Seddon> indeed, ill make sure i keep the board aprised of everything
[2009-07-21 21:30:58] <AndrewRT> thanks
[2009-07-21 21:30:59] <mpeel> do we need to provide anything in terms of finances, or location, etc., or is it all involvement on the organization of the sessions side?
[2009-07-21 21:31:07] <AndrewRT> do you need anything from us atm?
[2009-07-21 21:31:15] <Seddon> i have said that we cannot make any gaurentee in terms of funding till the annual fundraiser
[2009-07-21 21:31:36] <AndrewRT> arwe they looking for us to contribute?
[2009-07-21 21:32:03] <Seddon> i would presume so but they havnt asked anything from us
[2009-07-21 21:32:22] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk-board +o mpeel  by ChanServ
[2009-07-21 21:32:24] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk-board +v zeyi  by ChanServ
[2009-07-21 21:32:25] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk-board -o mpeel  by ChanServ
[2009-07-21 21:32:27] <Seddon> right now nothing has been agreed or decided, planning literally has just started
[2009-07-21 21:32:55] <Seddon> so we should have a decent amount of manourvering room
[2009-07-21 21:33:10] <AndrewRT> OKCon charges £15 for attendence - what will we do about that?
[2009-07-21 21:33:26] <zeyi> OKCon?
[2009-07-21 21:33:49] <mpeel> AndrewRT: we need to do something about that?
[2009-07-21 21:34:07] <AndrewRT> OKCon = Open Knowledge Conference
[2009-07-21 21:34:07] <mpeel> seems sensible+logical to charge for attendence to cover costs
[2009-07-21 21:34:18] <AndrewRT> mpeel - we didn't charge our members to attend our last AGM
[2009-07-21 21:34:40] <mpeel> would we hold our AGM as part of this, or seperate?
[2009-07-21 21:34:43] <AndrewRT> take it we're still planning to coincide the AGM
[2009-07-21 21:34:50] <Seddon> well they hold thier AGM there
[2009-07-21 21:34:53] <AndrewRT> it will be the same time of the year
[2009-07-21 21:34:59] <Seddon> so it shouldnt be too difficult to hold ours
[2009-07-21 21:35:17] <mpeel> could we give free access to the AGM, but charge for attendance to the conference?
[2009-07-21 21:35:18] <Seddon> im hoping to talk to jonathan gray about all of this asap
[2009-07-21 21:35:20] <AndrewRT> we need to ensure that members can attend the WMUK AGM without having to pay
[2009-07-21 21:35:36] <Seddon> that will almost certainly be the case 
[2009-07-21 21:35:36] <AndrewRT> thanks ok Seddon, just trying to think of everything!
[2009-07-21 21:35:57] <Seddon> ill make sure the agm is free for members
[2009-07-21 21:36:02] <AndrewRT> cheers
[2009-07-21 21:36:24] <mpeel> anything more with this, or shall we move on?
[2009-07-21 21:36:28] <zeyi> Seddon: I would like to be vonlunteer as well as have organized academic conference before
[2009-07-21 21:36:39] <mpeel> (& thanks Seddon for your work with this)
[2009-07-21 21:36:42] <zeyi> just let me know if you need some help
[2009-07-21 21:36:46] <AndrewRT> I'm happy to move on mpeel
[2009-07-21 21:36:58] <Seddon> i dont think there is anything else
[2009-07-21 21:36:59] <mpeel> 4.5 Corporate relations (steve_)
[2009-07-21 21:37:02] <Seddon> move on :)
[2009-07-21 21:37:24] <mpeel> which I see is now at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-07-21/Agenda/Corporate_Report
[2009-07-21 21:37:36] <mpeel> (as of ~ 3 mins ago...)
[2009-07-21 21:38:01] <AndrewRT> thanks for this report steve
[2009-07-21 21:38:12] <mpeel> steve_: are you here?
[2009-07-21 21:38:38] <steve_> yes - just trying to draft my report on the fly
[2009-07-21 21:38:45] <steve_> half done
[2009-07-21 21:38:50] <mpeel> do you want to discuss now, or come back later?
[2009-07-21 21:39:05] <AndrewRT> suggest we coem back
[2009-07-21 21:39:20] <mpeel> 4.6 Volunteers report (PW) we can't do as skenmy's not here
[2009-07-21 21:39:23] <steve_> have a look at what is there
[2009-07-21 21:39:28] <AndrewRT> ok
[2009-07-21 21:39:49] <steve_> Need approval on PRCA point at bottom from you guys
[2009-07-21 21:39:52] <AndrewRT> "Requests to use Wikipedia content - have come in from a couple of parties and have simply asked about nature of usage"
[2009-07-21 21:40:23] <AndrewRT> is it best to have you handling these kind of requests or would you prefer someone else?
[2009-07-21 21:40:26] <steve_> nothing big - i just wanted to ensure they were not using it in any 'peculiar way' that might infringe state laws
[2009-07-21 21:40:36] <steve_> someone else please
[2009-07-21 21:40:41] <AndrewRT> I know you mentioned before you didn't have a huge amount of wikimedia experience
[2009-07-21 21:40:50] <AndrewRT> mpeel - are you happy to field in future?
[2009-07-21 21:40:55] <mpeel> I can do
[2009-07-21 21:41:01] <mpeel> they might be best going to info@wikimedia.org.uk
[2009-07-21 21:41:05] <mpeel> so that they go through OTRS
[2009-07-21 21:41:09] <mpeel> then we can all lend a hand as necessary
[2009-07-21 21:41:13] <AndrewRT> i suggest that's probably the best way forward
[2009-07-21 21:41:28] <steve_> will redirect there in future
[2009-07-21 21:41:31] <AndrewRT> Steve do you mind forwarding anything like this that comes through to corporate@ to info@
[2009-07-21 21:41:37] <AndrewRT> cheers
[2009-07-21 21:41:57] <mpeel> PRCA - sounds fine to me. Would he be running the case study past us once complete?
[2009-07-21 21:42:24] <AndrewRT> sounds fine to me too - what did he have in mind?
[2009-07-21 21:42:38] <steve_> I would expect so - he'd feed his thoughts back to me and then I'd share will all of you
[2009-07-21 21:42:56] <AndrewRT> what woudl he do - interview one of us?
[2009-07-21 21:43:07] <steve_> He is training and teaching businessmen on social media - we are just a case study example 
[2009-07-21 21:43:42] <AndrewRT> I presume he's going to write the cae study himself
[2009-07-21 21:43:42] <steve_> so it would be a bit like the Leonard Guldbrandsson presentation from February that you all saw a few weeks back
[2009-07-21 21:43:47] <AndrewRT> he doesnt want us to write it?
[2009-07-21 21:43:56] <steve_> No I think he could
[2009-07-21 21:44:08] <steve_> He might like material if we care to send things on to him
[2009-07-21 21:44:17] <AndrewRT> so what is he asking board approval _for_?
[2009-07-21 21:45:02] <steve_> only as a formality 
[2009-07-21 21:45:13] <mpeel> ok, we need to move on - we're running low on time already...
[2009-07-21 21:45:21] <mpeel> is there anything else with your report that needs discussing, steve_?
[2009-07-21 21:45:34] <AndrewRT> well, I'm happy for you to tell him we support this and we're happy to help him if he wants
[2009-07-21 21:45:36] <steve_> Press releases idea
[2009-07-21 21:46:02] <steve_> whenever there is a big 'event' - we get the hits on the relevant wikipedia page
[2009-07-21 21:46:20] <steve_> and release it to the press as a 'helpful' gesture for any story they are running
[2009-07-21 21:46:29] <AndrewRT> i think generally we could do with raising our profile
[2009-07-21 21:46:33] <steve_> to build up good relationships with them for the times when we need to use them
[2009-07-21 21:46:33] <mpeel> if it's UK-related, then that makes sense
[2009-07-21 21:46:41] <AndrewRT> and anythign like this that gets us in the press is positive
[2009-07-21 21:46:51] <AndrewRT> what do we need to do to turn this into reality?
[2009-07-21 21:46:52] <steve_> Who do we need to talk to to get hits on a page data
[2009-07-21 21:46:58] <mpeel> it's an idea that we should run past Jay Walsh of the WMF, though, to make sure that it doesn't interfere with anything he's doing (and ask for general suggestions from him)
[2009-07-21 21:47:20] <steve_> a person who can say '4million hits' and 'yes it is ok; to go public
[2009-07-21 21:47:32] <steve_> eg Michael Jackson death
[2009-07-21 21:47:34] <mpeel> see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Popular_pages
[2009-07-21 21:47:46] <steve_> Apollo landings
[2009-07-21 21:47:51] <AndrewRT> presumably we need someone to actually write the press releases
[2009-07-21 21:47:52] <steve_> etc
[2009-07-21 21:47:56] <mpeel> solar eclipse tomorrow. :-)
[2009-07-21 21:47:57] <AndrewRT> and approve them
[2009-07-21 21:48:01] <steve_> swine flu will probably be another soon
[2009-07-21 21:48:47] <steve_> need a simple format - saying little more than in the spirit of cooperation we are releasing the number of page views of page XXXX to the media - any additional questions call XXX
[2009-07-21 21:49:11] <mpeel> I'm not sure we'd be releasing anything - it's more that we'd be pointing things out.
[2009-07-21 21:49:12] <steve_> you have the full press lists that i have created for the Board
[2009-07-21 21:49:25] <steve_> ..which is perhaps an additional point for my report     :-)
[2009-07-21 21:49:37] <AndrewRT> mpeel - i presume  steve's proposal is that we release press releases
[2009-07-21 21:50:03] <Seddon> thats a good point, andrewrt: can you action me to get the Wikimedia press list 
[2009-07-21 21:50:04] <mpeel> AndrewRT: yes, but we're not releasing previously hidden/unknown information, we're just pointing it out
[2009-07-21 21:50:34] <mpeel> "Wikimedia press list"?
[2009-07-21 21:50:45] <AndrewRT> is the information steve needs already publically available?
[2009-07-21 21:50:58] <Seddon> AndrewRT: yep
[2009-07-21 21:51:01] <mpeel> I'm not aware that there is one - more an informal network of people... :-)
[2009-07-21 21:51:15] <steve_> I cannot 'go public' on anything as part of Dow Jones - it needs one of you to front a press statement
[2009-07-21 21:51:35] <Seddon> mpeel: there is a wikimedia press contact list that can be requested by chapters
[2009-07-21 21:51:40] <Seddon> at least i believe so
[2009-07-21 21:51:48] <mpeel> Seddon: ah, ok. I haven't heard of that.
[2009-07-21 21:51:55] <steve_> Any press statement we make in this arena will be supported by our friend at Ketchum PR if we copy him in - he has even wider press lists than we do
[2009-07-21 21:52:24] <steve_> I sent a press list to you all a few weeks back
[2009-07-21 21:52:30] <mpeel> there is http://internal.wikimedia.org/wiki/Press_Contacts but it's rather outdated
[2009-07-21 21:52:46] <steve_> mine was up to date
[2009-07-21 21:52:48] <mpeel> ah, sorry - wrong way around
[2009-07-21 21:52:54] <mpeel> that's people within WMF for the press. :-)
[2009-07-21 21:53:16] <mpeel> ok, we need to move on - do we need to make any decisions here?
[2009-07-21 21:53:31] <mpeel> or will we deal with things by email as they come up?
[2009-07-21 21:53:39] <AndrewRT> steve_ - in light of the fact that this is already available, does that change your view?
[2009-07-21 21:53:41] <steve_> is the idea worthy of support and is someone ready to work with me and front it
[2009-07-21 21:54:04] <steve_> No - if people do not know it is there what value does it serve
[2009-07-21 21:54:31] <mpeel> seems worthwhile, so long as it's not too formal. I'm happy to work with you on it, in collaboration with the rest of the board.
[2009-07-21 21:54:41] <AndrewRT> so your suggestions is essentially we do mini press releases to reflect the content of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Popular_pages?
[2009-07-21 21:54:42] <steve_> good
[2009-07-21 21:54:48] <steve_> yes
[2009-07-21 21:55:28] <mpeel> I'd imagine only the biggest spikes, though - along the lines of Michael Jackson 
[2009-07-21 21:55:37] <steve_> correct only the spikes
[2009-07-21 21:55:46] <steve_> one a month say
[2009-07-21 21:56:03] <AndrewRT> mpeel - are you happy to work with steve on this?
[2009-07-21 21:56:04] <mpeel> shall we continue this discussion via email?
[2009-07-21 21:56:13] <mpeel> AndrewRT: I said I was above...
[2009-07-21 21:56:18] <AndrewRT> ok
[2009-07-21 21:56:31] <mpeel> Moving on... 5. Charity Commission application - at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Charity_Commission_application
[2009-07-21 21:56:34] <AndrewRT> I'm happy to do this then - zeyi, seddon, cfp you happy in principle?
[2009-07-21 21:56:43] <Seddon> yep
[2009-07-21 21:57:21] <AndrewRT> we've got half an hour left and lots to do - what do you want to do mpeel?
[2009-07-21 21:57:27] <zeyi> great,
[2009-07-21 21:57:29] <mpeel> push on
[2009-07-21 21:57:30] <AndrewRT> drop the initiatives?
[2009-07-21 21:57:43] <AndrewRT> limit cc application to 15 mins?
[2009-07-21 21:57:53] <mpeel> cc to 15 mins would be good
[2009-07-21 21:57:57] <AndrewRT> ok
[2009-07-21 21:58:06] <mpeel> can we overrun a bit, or do people need to leave at 22.30?
[2009-07-21 21:58:09] <AndrewRT> are you happy with the order - my bits first, then mpeel's then PW's
[2009-07-21 21:58:18] <mpeel> AndrewRT: makes sense
[2009-07-21 21:58:25] <AndrewRT> can we get into the habit of running to time
[2009-07-21 21:58:42] <AndrewRT> otherwise people will always expect us to overrun and we always will!
[2009-07-21 21:58:49] <mpeel> please could everyone put their reports on the wiki before the meeting, rather than during, then...
[2009-07-21 21:58:50] <zeyi> ok for me
[2009-07-21 21:59:04] <AndrewRT> yes indeed!
[2009-07-21 21:59:17] <steve_> I stand guilty
[2009-07-21 21:59:19] <steve_> sorry
[2009-07-21 21:59:20] <AndrewRT> ok, if you recall at the last meeting we split the application into 3
[2009-07-21 21:59:27] <AndrewRT> I did the "easy" bits
[2009-07-21 21:59:36] <AndrewRT> Mike did the "public benefit " test
[2009-07-21 21:59:43] <AndrewRT> Paul the "Vulnerable people"
[2009-07-21 21:59:52] <AndrewRT> we're starting with the "easy" bits
[2009-07-21 21:59:56] <AndrewRT> http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Charity_Commission_application
[2009-07-21 22:00:09] <AndrewRT> sections A, B, E anf F
[2009-07-21 22:00:20] <AndrewRT> I suggest we just work through and take qs as they arise
[2009-07-21 22:00:24] <AndrewRT> is that ok?
[2009-07-21 22:00:28] <AndrewRT> start with section A
[2009-07-21 22:00:32] <mpeel> AndrewRT: I made a few modifications to what you put down, hope they were ok.
[2009-07-21 22:00:47] <AndrewRT> np
[2009-07-21 22:00:51] <AndrewRT> I'll look now
[2009-07-21 22:01:15] <mpeel> AndrewRT: http://uk.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Charity_Commission_application&diff=4644&oldid=4595
[2009-07-21 22:01:40] <mpeel> also http://uk.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Charity_Commission_application&diff=4654&oldid=4652
[2009-07-21 22:01:41] <AndrewRT> I think we need to wait until we have physical receipt of teh money
[2009-07-21 22:01:49] <AndrewRT> as proof
[2009-07-21 22:02:00] <AndrewRT> 2nd one's fine
[2009-07-21 22:02:07] <mpeel> I thought that intention for the gift to be made was sufficient?
[2009-07-21 22:02:17] <AndrewRT> we need "proof"
[2009-07-21 22:02:23] <mpeel> although hopefully physical receipt will happen sooner rather than later...
[2009-07-21 22:02:24] <AndrewRT> cash in the bank is the best proof!
[2009-07-21 22:02:49] <mpeel> ok - will we need to request a bank statement once the funds have arrived, then
[2009-07-21 22:02:50] <mpeel> ?
[2009-07-21 22:02:58] <AndrewRT> any comments on section A?
[2009-07-21 22:03:10] <mpeel> rather than waiting for the next one (assuming paper statements are sent to us as standard...)
[2009-07-21 22:03:10] <AndrewRT> mpeel - no, we just print off the online statement
[2009-07-21 22:03:19] <AndrewRT> sure.ly...
[2009-07-21 22:03:21] <AndrewRT> cfp?
[2009-07-21 22:03:33] <cfp> sorry was afk
[2009-07-21 22:03:36] <cfp> oen sec
[2009-07-21 22:04:15] <cfp> it's still not in yet
[2009-07-21 22:04:15] <cfp> and the relevant wmf person is out of the office this week
[2009-07-21 22:04:22] <cfp> so if there's been some problem with the transfer it won't be fixed till next week
[2009-07-21 22:04:26] <cfp> i'll keep checking daily though
[2009-07-21 22:04:56] <mpeel> AndrewRT: [shall we mention the winter fundraiser as a deadline?]
[2009-07-21 22:05:03] <AndrewRT> I suggest we do
[2009-07-21 22:05:08] <AndrewRT> is everyone ok with this?
[2009-07-21 22:05:10] <mpeel> makes sense to me
[2009-07-21 22:05:23] <steve_> ok
[2009-07-21 22:05:26] <AndrewRT> zeyi, steve_, seddon - you ok with section A?
[2009-07-21 22:05:35] <zeyi> ok for me
[2009-07-21 22:06:11] <Seddon> yep section a seem fine
[2009-07-21 22:06:35] <mpeel> does section B need discussion? Seems pretty brief.
[2009-07-21 22:06:43] <AndrewRT> one sec
[2009-07-21 22:06:57] <AndrewRT> sectoin A - I've recommended we haev a December financial year end
[2009-07-21 22:07:03] <AndrewRT> is that ok with everyone?
[2009-07-21 22:07:19] <steve_> can't see why not - I am ok
[2009-07-21 22:07:21] <AndrewRT> "I recommend we run the financial year to the calendar year; this gives a few months to prepare the formal annual accounts in time for their approval at the spring AGM"
[2009-07-21 22:07:25] <mpeel> the most important viewpoint here isp probably cfp's
[2009-07-21 22:07:35] <AndrewRT> indeed!
[2009-07-21 22:07:50] <mpeel> cfp: what do you think?
[2009-07-21 22:07:51] <AndrewRT> this is also after the end of the fundraiser
[2009-07-21 22:08:01] <mpeel> AndrewRT: no, it's not
[2009-07-21 22:08:05] <mpeel> fundraiser runs into jan
[2009-07-21 22:08:09] <AndrewRT> oh
[2009-07-21 22:08:15] <AndrewRT> do you know when it ends then?
[2009-07-21 22:08:25] <mpeel> last year I think it was jan 12
[2009-07-21 22:08:34] <AndrewRT> that could be a hassle
[2009-07-21 22:08:36] <cfp> i'm happy either way.
[2009-07-21 22:08:39] <AndrewRT> shoudl we make it 31 Jan then?
[2009-07-21 22:08:43] <cfp> i'm keeping the accounts up to date as we go
[2009-07-21 22:08:52] <AndrewRT> giving us two moths to do the accounts by an end March AG
[2009-07-21 22:09:13] <cfp> (though i'm still lacking a few receipts... andrew...)
[2009-07-21 22:09:19] <AndrewRT> oh yes
[2009-07-21 22:09:23] <AndrewRT> I'll get on to that!
[2009-07-21 22:09:46] <cfp> what's the deadline for submitting accounts to company's house?
[2009-07-21 22:09:53] <mpeel> AndrewRT: the current draft of the fundraising agrement says "starting in November 2009 and concluding in January 2010"
[2009-07-21 22:10:18] <AndrewRT> cfp - normally year end + 9 months
[2009-07-21 22:10:42] <AndrewRT> first time it will be 5/8/10 as we'll have a year longer than 12 mths
[2009-07-21 22:10:43] <cfp> oh ok. so that's a comfortable leeway. and there are no problems with our first year being long?
[2009-07-21 22:10:52] <cfp> ok
[2009-07-21 22:10:55] <AndrewRT> still quite comfortable
[2009-07-21 22:11:00] <AndrewRT> so u hapy with 31/1 then?
[2009-07-21 22:11:26] <cfp> yeah. fine.
[2009-07-21 22:11:29] <AndrewRT> zeyi, steve_, seddon please DO SAY SOMETHING
[2009-07-21 22:11:35] <Seddon> im reading :)
[2009-07-21 22:11:35] <steve_> happy
[2009-07-21 22:11:39] <AndrewRT> it's hard to do IRC when everyone's quite
[2009-07-21 22:11:42] <AndrewRT> quiet
[2009-07-21 22:11:50] <AndrewRT> thanks
[2009-07-21 22:12:08] <mpeel> 5 mins
[2009-07-21 22:12:10] <Seddon> it makes sense for the agm to continue running around the march time
[2009-07-21 22:12:13] <AndrewRT> everyone ok with section A?
[2009-07-21 22:12:15] <cfp> jan 1st would give me a few weeks of holiday to prepare them, but jan 31st is probably late enough for me to have a few easter holiday weeks
[2009-07-21 22:12:18] <cfp> so it's fine either way
[2009-07-21 22:12:32] <AndrewRT> Seddon?
[2009-07-21 22:12:35] <AndrewRT> Steve_
[2009-07-21 22:12:38] <AndrewRT> Zeyi?
[2009-07-21 22:12:39] <mpeel> AndrewRT: I'm happy
[2009-07-21 22:12:45] <AndrewRT> cfp?
[2009-07-21 22:12:50] <Seddon> im happy with section a, said above :p
[2009-07-21 22:13:09] <zeyi> I am ok as well, said before
[2009-07-21 22:13:11] <AndrewRT> rigth, that's 3, I'll move to section B
[2009-07-21 22:13:25] <AndrewRT> http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Charity_Commission_application#B_Governing_document
[2009-07-21 22:13:31] <AndrewRT> all pretty factual, all ok with that?
[2009-07-21 22:13:34] <steve_> happy
[2009-07-21 22:13:38] <mpeel> looks fine
[2009-07-21 22:13:52] <zeyi> good
[2009-07-21 22:13:56] <AndrewRT> http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Charity_Commission_application#E_Private_benefit
[2009-07-21 22:14:07] <AndrewRT> are we happy that no director is receiving any private benefit?
[2009-07-21 22:14:18] <Seddon> yep
[2009-07-21 22:14:30] <mpeel> yup
[2009-07-21 22:14:32] <AndrewRT> happy with this?
[2009-07-21 22:14:44] <steve_> yep
[2009-07-21 22:14:44] <mpeel> E1 needs discussion
[2009-07-21 22:14:47] <zeyi> yes
[2009-07-21 22:15:18] <AndrewRT> yeah
[2009-07-21 22:15:22] <AndrewRT> I suggest we draft a policy
[2009-07-21 22:15:29] <Seddon> on wiki?
[2009-07-21 22:15:32] <AndrewRT> sounds reasonable for us to have one
[2009-07-21 22:15:35] <AndrewRT> sure on wiki
[2009-07-21 22:15:38] <AndrewRT> approve next meeting?
[2009-07-21 22:15:39] <mpeel> AndrewRT: I agree, can you do that?
[2009-07-21 22:15:58] <steve_> approve next meeting (agree)
[2009-07-21 22:16:08] <mpeel> (at least, start a draft - Tango42 should have useful comments)
[2009-07-21 22:16:17] <AndrewRT> ok
[2009-07-21 22:16:27] <AndrewRT> http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Charity_Commission_application#F_Information_required_for_the_Register_of_Charities
[2009-07-21 22:16:46] <AndrewRT> this is all pretty factual 
[2009-07-21 22:17:04] <AndrewRT> I'll add the personal details from the register of directorswhen it's sent in
[2009-07-21 22:17:07] <steve_> it will be detailed when we send?
[2009-07-21 22:17:10] <mpeel> "    People of a particular ethnic or racial origin " - would other languages tick that box?
[2009-07-21 22:17:28] <mpeel> or "Other defined groups" - Wikimedians
[2009-07-21 22:17:30] <AndrewRT> dont think so no
[2009-07-21 22:17:50] <AndrewRT> hmm, not sure wikimedians are a separate group like that
[2009-07-21 22:18:02] <AndrewRT> steve_ - yes
[2009-07-21 22:18:36] <steve_> fine with me
[2009-07-21 22:18:54] <mpeel> I'm happy with section F as it is.
[2009-07-21 22:19:04] <AndrewRT> right so everyone happy with my bits - shall we move onto Mike's?
[2009-07-21 22:19:10] <AndrewRT> section C
[2009-07-21 22:19:45] <AndrewRT> mpeel?
[2009-07-21 22:19:53] <mpeel> I wrote a fair bit for this...
[2009-07-21 22:19:56] <mpeel> it's on the wiki...
[2009-07-21 22:19:58] <mpeel> comments welcome...
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[2009-07-21 22:20:20] <Seddon> so this is a hash between our objects and the hmrc letters?
[2009-07-21 22:20:31] <mpeel> broadly, yes
[2009-07-21 22:20:38] <mpeel> explaining how our objects are for the public benefit
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[2009-07-21 22:20:41] <Seddon> ok cool
[2009-07-21 22:21:01] <AndrewRT> I've made a few points on the talk page
[2009-07-21 22:21:10] <mpeel> I've written the text from scratch, though, rather than basing it off the HMRC letters as the latter ones of those were a little too focused on one issue.
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[2009-07-21 22:21:25] <AndrewRT> first, it would be sensible to use all the info from the HMRC letters in this section
[2009-07-21 22:21:31] <AndrewRT> - perhaps added as an appendix
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[2009-07-21 22:21:46] <mpeel> AndrewRT: having them as an appendix makes sense
[2009-07-21 22:21:56] <Seddon> agree with the appendix
[2009-07-21 22:22:01] <AndrewRT> mpeel - I dont understand "one issue"
[2009-07-21 22:22:09] <AndrewRT> they were focussed on whether WMUK was charitable
[2009-07-21 22:22:19] <AndrewRT> that's kinda the central issue here as well
[2009-07-21 22:22:24] <mpeel> the latter ones were focused on whether Wikipedia was charitable
[2009-07-21 22:22:29] <mpeel> that's not all that we do
[2009-07-21 22:22:50] <AndrewRT> ok, this leads on the second thing I think we need to discuss here
[2009-07-21 22:23:00] <AndrewRT> we've had a few discussions on this before
[2009-07-21 22:23:13] <AndrewRT> and I think it would be useful to make a decision 
[2009-07-21 22:23:19] <mpeel> on...?
[2009-07-21 22:23:27] <AndrewRT> What exactly is Wikimedia UK for?
[2009-07-21 22:23:36] <AndrewRT> is it just to support Wikimedia projects
[2009-07-21 22:23:39] <mpeel> erm... see what I wrote for section C? ;-)
[2009-07-21 22:23:55] <AndrewRT> or is it also to advocate other "free content" projects
[2009-07-21 22:24:21] <mpeel> my viewpoint was always that it was primarily to support Wikimedia projects, but could also support other projects as appropriate
[2009-07-21 22:24:22] <AndrewRT> my view is that we shoudl focus on Wikimedia projects
[2009-07-21 22:24:33] <mpeel> our objects are certainly much broader than just the Wikimedia projects
[2009-07-21 22:24:52] <AndrewRT> objects have to be broader
[2009-07-21 22:25:10] <AndrewRT> the analogy is a UK charity set up to help a particular orhpanage in India
[2009-07-21 22:25:19] <Seddon> the type of activities we would undertake doesnt seem hugely convincing to me but im not sure how it could be improved
[2009-07-21 22:25:20] <AndrewRT> they cant say that in their articles
[2009-07-21 22:25:33] <AndrewRT> because what happens if the orphanage closes when tehy have funds left over
[2009-07-21 22:25:38] <AndrewRT> hence they have to be general
[2009-07-21 22:26:18] <mpeel> there are other projects that exist that aren't run by the WMF, which I could envisage us supporting - e.g. Wikisky, Wikimapia, etc.
[2009-07-21 22:26:24] <AndrewRT> My proposal is we take the following phrase:
[2009-07-21 22:26:27] <AndrewRT> "Our primary means of making said content available at the present time is via the projects of the Wikimedia Foundation - including Wikipedia, Wikimedia Commons, etc. - but also include such services as Flickr (an image hosting website). The types of activities we will likely be undertaking include:"
[2009-07-21 22:26:41] <AndrewRT> and delete ". - but also include such services as Flickr (an image hosting website). "
[2009-07-21 22:26:44] <Seddon> i like that idea mpeel
[2009-07-21 22:26:53] <AndrewRT> mpeel = we couldn't do that as "Wikimedia UK"
[2009-07-21 22:27:02] <Seddon> how so?
[2009-07-21 22:27:02] <AndrewRT> theoretically we could as "Wiki UK Ltd"
[2009-07-21 22:27:11] <AndrewRT> the chapters agreement wouldnt allow us
[2009-07-21 22:27:16] <AndrewRT> (or at least the new one wont)
[2009-07-21 22:27:30] <mpeel> we're currently working under the old one
[2009-07-21 22:27:40] <zeyi> I agree Andrew
[2009-07-21 22:27:56] <Seddon> I didnt realise that
[2009-07-21 22:28:06] <AndrewRT> but nothing we have done in the last x months and nothing even suggested under Initiatives/Ideas has anything to do with other projects
[2009-07-21 22:28:12] <mpeel> which specific part of the new one won't let us do that?
[2009-07-21 22:28:45] <mpeel> and is that section under discussion with the WMF? (if not, it should be)
[2009-07-21 22:28:46] <AndrewRT> "3.2.Programs and Activities. Chapter shall be free to plan, develop, carry out, and publicize its activities as it sees fit, subject to the general principle that Chapter's authorization to identify itself as a Foundation chapter, and the scope of its rights to hold itself out as a Foundation chapter, is based on and limited to its carrying out programs and activities that further the...
[2009-07-21 22:28:46] <AndrewRT> ...purposes and objectives of the Wikimedia movement"
[2009-07-21 22:29:07] <AndrewRT> it's all under discussion!
[2009-07-21 22:29:25] <mpeel> I'd argue that other projects that we could support would further the Wikimedia movement
[2009-07-21 22:29:49] <cfp> i'm not sure the current debate is productive. but i'd agree with andrew's suggested change.
[2009-07-21 22:29:56] <mpeel> as in "Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment."
[2009-07-21 22:30:06] <cfp> simple and clear is what we should be going for here.
[2009-07-21 22:30:25] <AndrewRT> what do the other board members think?
[2009-07-21 22:30:29] <steve_> I'd agree with CFP
[2009-07-21 22:30:34] <mpeel> My aim with adding the mention of flickr is to broaden our activities in the eyes of the CC, such that we're not seen as purely focused and dependent on the WMF.
[2009-07-21 22:30:48] <mpeel> I'm happy for that mention to be removed if the rest of the board wants, though.
[2009-07-21 22:31:08] <AndrewRT> i think its very important to get this right - it affects the way we promote ourselves for instance
[2009-07-21 22:31:17] <AndrewRT> is it - join us and support Wikipedia etc
[2009-07-21 22:31:25] <AndrewRT> or join us and support free knowledge?
[2009-07-21 22:31:36] <Seddon> in my opinion the latter
[2009-07-21 22:31:51] <cfp> there are other organisations for supporting free knowledge. we're specifically for wiki approaches to free knowledge.
[2009-07-21 22:31:51] <mpeel> I like "Supporting free and open knowledge in the United Kingdom"
[2009-07-21 22:32:05] <mpeel> (from our main page)
[2009-07-21 22:32:07] <steve_> they are not mutually exclusive
[2009-07-21 22:32:19] <AndrewRT> yeah but that's because you wrote it! :)
[2009-07-21 22:32:27] <Seddon> I think i wrote it :p
[2009-07-21 22:32:32] <mpeel> Seddon wrote it. :)
[2009-07-21 22:32:33] <AndrewRT> okfine!
[2009-07-21 22:32:48] <Seddon> its my fault :)
[2009-07-21 22:32:59] <Seddon> hmmmmm i certainly see cfp's point
[2009-07-21 22:33:13] <cfp> a minor drafting point cut "at the present time" and add "Currently" as teh first word of the sentence
[2009-07-21 22:33:41] <cfp> if we're really concerned about them thinking we're too tied to the wmf, also add "(though this may change)"
[2009-07-21 22:33:47] <AndrewRT> ok, well I'm happy to bow to the majority opinion
[2009-07-21 22:34:17] <Seddon> The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage people around the world to collect and develop educational content under a free license or in the public domain, and to disseminate it effectively and globally.
[2009-07-21 22:34:26] <mpeel> cfp: thanks, change made
[2009-07-21 22:34:29] <AndrewRT> the risk is that people turn round later, havign joined WMUK thinking it was all about Wikimedia, to find their donations are used to support a non-Wikimedia project 
[2009-07-21 22:34:39] <steve_> CFP gets my vote
[2009-07-21 22:34:51] <Seddon> i agree andrew
[2009-07-21 22:35:19] <mpeel> I think there's two issues here - how we present ourselves to CC, and how we mentally think about ourselves
[2009-07-21 22:35:35] <AndrewRT> the key thing is to decide what we are about
[2009-07-21 22:35:36] <mpeel> I was really not wanting to provoke this discussion around the CC application...
[2009-07-21 22:35:50] <AndrewRT> we need to have this discussion
[2009-07-21 22:35:58] <mpeel> we're already over time, and we haven't done anything on initiatives yet.
[2009-07-21 22:36:24] <mpeel> and this strikes me as something best addressed on the mailing list
[2009-07-21 22:36:27] <Seddon> i think andrew has a fair point, now i suppose the key thing in this is educational
[2009-07-21 22:36:47] <AndrewRT> I'm happy to take this discussion to the mailing list
[2009-07-21 22:36:47] <Seddon> (realises that may be obvious)
[2009-07-21 22:36:56] <AndrewRT> yes gd point seddon
[2009-07-21 22:37:03] <cfp> we could arrange to have a meeting next week to have the rest of our discussions
[2009-07-21 22:37:36] <mpeel> would everyone be happy with cfp's suggestion?
[2009-07-21 22:37:50] <AndrewRT> I'd have to give my apologies if we did
[2009-07-21 22:38:16] <AndrewRT> Is everyone happy with me minuting the decision
[2009-07-21 22:38:36] <mpeel> could you phrase the decision here, please?
[2009-07-21 22:39:01] <mpeel> (I'm rather fuzzy now as to what it was... ;-) )
[2009-07-21 22:39:02] <AndrewRT> "Board agreed that Wiki UK could support both Wikimedia and non-Wikimedia projects and this should be made clear to prospective members and supporters" 
[2009-07-21 22:39:13] <AndrewRT> maybe "would"
[2009-07-21 22:39:31] <AndrewRT> I'll also take an action to publicise this on the list and ask for comments
[2009-07-21 22:39:40] <cfp> i'd support that. though i got the impression something more (which i supported rather less) was decided
[2009-07-21 22:39:42] <Seddon> shall we clarify "non-wikimedia educational projects"
[2009-07-21 22:40:05] <mpeel> I'd prefer to get the member's views and reactions on that before setting it in stone.
[2009-07-21 22:40:35] <steve_> let's defer to members then
[2009-07-21 22:40:40] <mpeel> perhaps "Board agreed in principle that Wiki UK Ltd ..."
[2009-07-21 22:40:50] <AndrewRT> what other proposals are there?
[2009-07-21 22:40:56] <AndrewRT> cfp?
[2009-07-21 22:40:58] <mpeel> or "Board recognized that the objectives allow Wiki UK Ltd..."
[2009-07-21 22:41:27] <AndrewRT> mpeel - agree with 1st, 2nd is stating the obvious
[2009-07-21 22:41:53] <AndrewRT> ok I'll just take an action to get views first and we can ratify next time round
[2009-07-21 22:41:55] <cfp> defer to members sounds wise
[2009-07-21 22:41:56] <mpeel> ok, 1st then. :)
[2009-07-21 22:42:36] <AndrewRT> shall we hold off approving http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Charity_Commission_application#C_Assessing_the_organisation.E2.80.99s_public_benefit
[2009-07-21 22:42:37] <mpeel> ... or defer to members, which seems to be the consensus.
[2009-07-21 22:42:42] <AndrewRT> until this is decided?
[2009-07-21 22:42:46] <mpeel> ok
[2009-07-21 22:42:51] <mpeel> shall we briefly discuss section D?
[2009-07-21 22:42:55] <Seddon> yes, hold off
[2009-07-21 22:42:57] <AndrewRT> yes please
[2009-07-21 22:43:25] <AndrewRT> http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Charity_Commission_application#D_Vulnerable_people
[2009-07-21 22:43:26] <mpeel> we might be best off deferring Initiatives for a discussion next week (on the 28th july)
[2009-07-21 22:43:36] <AndrewRT> I'm not sure the answer to D2 is correct
[2009-07-21 22:43:54] <mpeel> neither am I, and I answered it... :)
[2009-07-21 22:44:19] <AndrewRT> specifically, now we are running the Schools project i think that makes us a "childrens charity"
[2009-07-21 22:44:25] <mpeel> section D needs to be investigated by someone - could Skenmy do this on his return, perhaps?
[2009-07-21 22:44:30] <Seddon> i agree andrew
[2009-07-21 22:44:30] <AndrewRT> whcih means all trustees have to be checked
[2009-07-21 22:44:46] <AndrewRT> are you familiar with these issues seddon?
[2009-07-21 22:44:47] <mpeel> I wasn't clear with that - we're not working with children unsupervised.
[2009-07-21 22:45:14] <mpeel> which seemed to me to be the applicable bit of being a childrens charity
[2009-07-21 22:45:25] <mpeel> & required for CRB checks
[2009-07-21 22:45:26] <Seddon> mpeel: the law is changing
[2009-07-21 22:45:32] <AndrewRT> I'm not sure thats in the legislation
[2009-07-21 22:45:38] <mpeel> Seddon: it always does, just as I think I understand it. :)
[2009-07-21 22:45:38] <AndrewRT> AndrewRT>	are you familiar with these issues seddon?
[2009-07-21 22:45:48] <Seddon> mpeel: regular contact, even if supervised requires crb
[2009-07-21 22:45:58] <Seddon> andrewrt, not intensely familiar
[2009-07-21 22:46:08] <AndrewRT> would you be able to look into it?
[2009-07-21 22:46:22] <Seddon> sure thing, i have been reading into recently anyway
[2009-07-21 22:46:28] <AndrewRT> thanks!
[2009-07-21 22:46:32] <mpeel> it strikes me that the CC could probably give some guidance here; at the very least they could share their viewpoint.
[2009-07-21 22:46:46] <Seddon> but from what i understand, if it is more than once a month, a person requires a crb check
[2009-07-21 22:46:54] <mpeel> it's probably worth giving them a quick phone call to ask.
[2009-07-21 22:47:05] <AndrewRT> i thought the same seddon
[2009-07-21 22:47:20] <Seddon> ill give them a call mpeel
[2009-07-21 22:47:27] <mpeel> does that extend to all trustees, or just those working in schools
[2009-07-21 22:47:27] <mpeel> ?
[2009-07-21 22:47:29] <AndrewRT> so, defer section D until we're clear about this?
[2009-07-21 22:47:32] <mpeel> thanks Seddon 
[2009-07-21 22:47:37] <Seddon> yep
[2009-07-21 22:47:56] <AndrewRT> mpeel - from what i understand if the charity does a significant amount of regulated work, all trustees must be checked
[2009-07-21 22:48:04] <AndrewRT> even if they dont go anywhere near the school
[2009-07-21 22:48:09] <AndrewRT> and have nothing to do with the project
[2009-07-21 22:48:12] <mpeel> AndrewRT: lovely, more paperwork to go through...
[2009-07-21 22:48:19] <AndrewRT> yep
[2009-07-21 22:48:21] <AndrewRT> fraid so
[2009-07-21 22:48:37] <AndrewRT> more expense as well!
[2009-07-21 22:48:40] <mpeel> ok, I think we've reached the end of the CC application discussion?
[2009-07-21 22:48:43] <AndrewRT> yep
[2009-07-21 22:49:00] <AndrewRT> defer initiatives till next week?
[2009-07-21 22:49:07] <mpeel> zeyi: are you OK with that?
[2009-07-21 22:49:09] <steve_> ok
[2009-07-21 22:49:35] <zeyi> ok 
[2009-07-21 22:49:42] <mpeel> 7. AOB
[2009-07-21 22:49:55] <mpeel> anyone?
[2009-07-21 22:49:56] <zeyi> will paul attend the next meeting?
[2009-07-21 22:49:57] <AndrewRT> none from me
[2009-07-21 22:50:01] <mpeel> (please say "none" if not)
[2009-07-21 22:50:07] <AndrewRT> zeyi - yes i think so
[2009-07-21 22:50:14] <cfp> none
[2009-07-21 22:50:15] <Seddon> none important other than im having another call with jonathan later this week
[2009-07-21 22:50:26] <AndrewRT> he's away "18th - 21st."
[2009-07-21 22:50:27] <mpeel> I have none.
[2009-07-21 22:50:46] <zeyi> none from me
[2009-07-21 22:50:52] <mpeel> 7. Date and content of next meeting - 28th July on Initiatives, 4th August on CC application?
[2009-07-21 22:51:05] <mpeel> * CC application + reports + approval of minutes etc.
[2009-07-21 22:51:34] <mpeel> is everyone happy with that?
[2009-07-21 22:51:44] <steve_> yep
[2009-07-21 22:51:46] <cfp> the 4th is a bit problematic for me as i'm flying home that day so i'd prefer to get as much done as poss on the 28th
[2009-07-21 22:51:47] <zeyi> ok here
[2009-07-21 22:51:53] <AndrewRT> 3rd is bank holiday
[2009-07-21 22:52:05] <AndrewRT> do we still want to do 4th or 5th?
[2009-07-21 22:52:14] <mpeel> I'm in Poland on the 4th (1st to 8th), but will hopefully have some sort of internet access.
[2009-07-21 22:52:16] <cfp> and if there are any particular issues people want ot raise with me the 28th'd be the best day to raise them.
[2009-07-21 22:52:18] <Seddon> defer to 5th?
[2009-07-21 22:52:43] <Seddon> cfp, if you have anything to report, we could do it on the 28th and leave it for a few weeks
[2009-07-21 22:52:46] <cfp> because i'm in south africa/mozambique for 18 days later in august.
[2009-07-21 22:52:56] <Seddon> anthing important sort out via email
[2009-07-21 22:52:58] <cfp> yeah.
[2009-07-21 22:53:01] <AndrewRT> how about 28th then 10th?
[2009-07-21 22:53:12] <cfp> that works for me
[2009-07-21 22:53:20] <mpeel> AndrewRT: that leaves rather too long between now and the next discussion of the CC application for my liking...
[2009-07-21 22:53:23] <AndrewRT> i meant 11th
[2009-07-21 22:53:44] <cfp> 11th i'm flying home and definitely can't make. so just ignore me. you have it when it's convenient for you
[2009-07-21 22:53:44] <AndrewRT> true
[2009-07-21 22:54:01] <AndrewRT> 28th & 5th?
[2009-07-21 22:54:05] <mpeel> cfp: could you do the 5th?
[2009-07-21 22:54:24] <cfp> yeah i think so. my parents can survive a few hours without me.
[2009-07-21 22:54:38] <mpeel> ok, unless there's any objections, let's go with that.
[2009-07-21 22:54:41] <steve_> any day in the previous suggestion is OK with me
[2009-07-21 22:54:44] <AndrewRT> ok we did talk about 
[2009-07-21 22:54:52] <AndrewRT> having a mid term face to face meeting
[2009-07-21 22:55:00] <AndrewRT> I think that might be a good idea
[2009-07-21 22:55:05] <steve_> add a 'yes' to whatever set of days is agreed from me
[2009-07-21 22:55:19] <mpeel> AndrewRT: the problem with that I guess is funding
[2009-07-21 22:55:32] <mpeel> unless we organize it at a museum... ;-)
[2009-07-21 22:55:47] <AndrewRT> I think it would be money well spent
[2009-07-21 22:55:53] <steve_> I can drive Seddon to a 'central location' for nothing and take him back again
[2009-07-21 22:55:55] <mpeel> definitely, but do we have the money to spend?
[2009-07-21 22:56:11] <AndrewRT> could we solicit a donation?
[2009-07-21 22:56:15] <AndrewRT> couple of £00?
[2009-07-21 22:56:18] <Seddon> im an hour from london over the next week
[2009-07-21 22:56:38] <Seddon> but that would expensive for the notherners
[2009-07-21 22:57:14] <Seddon> where would we be thinking about for location?
[2009-07-21 22:57:17] <AndrewRT> iin principle should we do one, if we could get the funding?
[2009-07-21 22:57:19] <mpeel> I would say that I would be happy to drive down to london, but am currently looking at a costly repair to my car thanks to a couple of vandals, so that might not be the case any more. :-(
[2009-07-21 22:57:24] <steve_> somewhere around Nottingham would be a compromise
[2009-07-21 22:57:32] <AndrewRT> you're welcoem to come to my house!
[2009-07-21 22:57:39] <Seddon> manchester good again?
[2009-07-21 22:57:41] <cfp> we don't have a lot of money. and i'm not convinced there's a lot to be gained from a face to face meeting
[2009-07-21 22:57:55] <AndrewRT> it might help improve our functioning as a board
[2009-07-21 22:58:16] <steve_> OK - but if we change minds I will chauffeur mr Seddon
[2009-07-21 22:58:21] <mpeel> I should be able to get myself to Nottingham without using chapter funds.
[2009-07-21 22:58:31] <cfp> maybe. i'm a little bit sceptical.
[2009-07-21 22:58:37] <cfp> we could combine it with something else
[2009-07-21 22:58:48] <cfp> e.g. the september 10th thing down here
[2009-07-21 22:58:59] <AndrewRT> like that idea
[2009-07-21 22:59:02] <cfp> that way it makes slightly more economic sense.
[2009-07-21 22:59:16] <cfp> (plus it's incredibly easy for me...)
[2009-07-21 22:59:17] <steve_> OK by me
[2009-07-21 22:59:33] <cfp> if you give me enough notice i can get guest rooms for anyone that wants one.
[2009-07-21 22:59:34] <mpeel> meeting on saturday the 12th september?
[2009-07-21 22:59:35] <steve_> Beers are on CFP that day then
[2009-07-21 22:59:44] <steve_> (joke)
[2009-07-21 22:59:45] <cfp> though i'm not sure expenses cover guest rooms.
[2009-07-21 22:59:52] <Seddon> ill get back to you guys with regards to that
[2009-07-21 22:59:55] <mpeel> given that the 11th will be taken up all day.
[2009-07-21 23:00:00] <mpeel> (for me and tom)
[2009-07-21 23:00:03] <Seddon> im unsure when my fieldtrips are
[2009-07-21 23:00:10] <cfp> (they're about £30 a night i think)
[2009-07-21 23:00:17] <cfp> ok well lets sort this nearer the time.
[2009-07-21 23:00:19] <steve_> Not needed - a day outing for me
[2009-07-21 23:00:23] <AndrewRT> yeah good idea
[2009-07-21 23:00:28] <mpeel> ok
[2009-07-21 23:00:33] <cfp> call it a night?
[2009-07-21 23:00:36] <AndrewRT> thanks
[2009-07-21 23:00:37] <AndrewRT> please
[2009-07-21 23:00:45] <mpeel> yup - thanks all for coming
[2009-07-21 23:00:45] <steve_> night all
[2009-07-21 23:00:50] <AndrewRT> thanks all

#wikimedia-uk

[2009-07-21 20:23:04] -->| YOU (AndrewRT) have joined #Wikimedia-UK
[2009-07-21 20:23:04] =-= Topic for #Wikimedia-UK is ``Discussion of Wikimedia UK - http://uk.wikimedia.org | Board meetings in #wikimedia-uk-board | The next board meeting is on Tuesday 21 July at 8.30pm BST | This channel is logged during WMUK board meetings''
[2009-07-21 20:23:04] =-= Topic for #Wikimedia-UK was set by mpeel_ on 08 July 2009 00:33:34
[2009-07-21 20:23:04] === #wikimedia-uk http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/
[2009-07-21 20:23:04] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk +v AndrewRT  by ChanServ
[2009-07-21 20:27:55] <Tango42> Are we expecting latecomers? Last time I checked the agenda there were 5 people coming, I see 2...
[2009-07-21 20:28:08] |<-- Majorly has left irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out)
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[2009-07-21 20:30:26] <mpeel> we have AndrewRT and cfp (hi to the both of you)
[2009-07-21 20:30:32] <mpeel> Seddon's running about 45 mins late
[2009-07-21 20:30:37] <mpeel> zeyi can't connect...
[2009-07-21 20:30:46] <mpeel> http://irc.freenode.net/ doesn't seem to work
[2009-07-21 20:31:04] <AndrewRT> hi mpeel
[2009-07-21 20:31:07] <AndrewRT> hi cfp
[2009-07-21 20:31:26] <AndrewRT> skenmy has given his apologies hasn't he
[2009-07-21 20:31:45] <mpeel> AndrewRT: yup, apologies received from skenmy
[2009-07-21 20:31:53] -->| Majorly (n=chatzill@wikimedia/Majorly) has joined #Wikimedia-UK
[2009-07-21 20:31:56] <mpeel> not sure about Steve...
[2009-07-21 20:32:00] <AndrewRT> anyone heard from him?
[2009-07-21 20:32:15] <AndrewRT> can anyone help Zeyi?
[2009-07-21 20:32:28] [INFO] You are no longer marked as away.
[2009-07-21 20:32:35] <mpeel> I don't know of an alternative, save for installing a proper client...
[2009-07-21 20:32:39] <mpeel> does anyone have any ideas?
[2009-07-21 20:34:18] <AndrewRT> I use the ChatZilla add on to Firefox
[2009-07-21 20:35:18] <mpeel> http://mibbit.com/java/ might also be a possibility, but I can't get it to work here
[2009-07-21 20:35:43] <mpeel> aah - she has the wrong url
[2009-07-21 20:35:44] <mpeel> http://webchat.freenode.net/
[2009-07-21 20:36:16] <mpeel> have emailed her
[2009-07-21 20:36:39] <mpeel> we're not quorum without her, so we'll have to wait
[2009-07-21 20:36:57] <geniice> eh [[seamonkey]] comes with chatzilla built in
[2009-07-21 20:37:07] <mpeel> has anyone heard anything from Steve?
[2009-07-21 20:38:01] <AndrewRT> he sent an email at 16:27 to the board
[2009-07-21 20:38:05] <AndrewRT> today that is
[2009-07-21 20:38:24] <mpeel> no mention of whether he could attend in that, though
[2009-07-21 20:38:31] <mpeel> also no report
[2009-07-21 20:38:37] <Tango42> I use firefox+chatzilla, it works very well
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[2009-07-21 20:40:36] <geniice> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SeaMonkey is less mainstream
[2009-07-21 20:40:43] <KTC> hi
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[2009-07-21 20:41:28] <AndrewRT> hi zeyi, steve
[2009-07-21 20:41:37] <Zeyi_> hi
[2009-07-21 20:41:47] <mpeel> steve join #wikimedia-uk-board
[2009-07-21 20:41:52] <AndrewRT> please identify yourself and join #wikimedia-uk-board
[2009-07-21 20:42:06] <Zeyi_>  #wikimedia-uk-board
[2009-07-21 20:43:25] <--| wpeel2 has left #Wikimedia-UK
[2009-07-21 20:43:58] <AndrewRT> board meeting is just starting in #wikimedia-uk-board - please join us there
[2009-07-21 20:51:52] <KTC> i think you guys just like the colour red ;)
[2009-07-21 20:52:15] <mpeel> KTC: it is a pretty colour. :-)
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[2009-07-21 20:54:01] <geniice> hmm have we ever used a geonotice to advertise wikimedia-uk?
[2009-07-21 20:54:21] <AndrewRT> how would that work?
[2009-07-21 20:55:22] <Tango42> You choose a geographic area and everyone with an IP address registered in that area gets a sitenotice-like message
[2009-07-21 20:55:39] <KTC> that's a interesting idea
[2009-07-21 20:55:45] <KTC> the answer no btw
[2009-07-21 20:55:52] <Tango42> One was used for the last london meetup and got a few extra people - it is probably worth it
[2009-07-21 20:56:14] <mpeel> geniice: Tango42: is there a URL for that?
[2009-07-21 20:57:32] <geniice> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Geonotice
[2009-07-21 20:57:34] <Tango42> I've been pressing for a mini-fundraising drive sometime soon - a geonotice (advertising both donations and membership) would be a good way to publicise that. (We should get some degree of community approval for it from whatever sites we want to put it on, but I don't see that being too difficult.)
[2009-07-21 20:57:55] <geniice> the foundation is not going to let us run a fundraiser on wikipedia
[2009-07-21 20:58:15] <KTC> hey, i want my "gift" lol :D
[2009-07-21 20:58:25] <Tango42> Why not?
[2009-07-21 20:58:25] <KTC> (i really don't care)
[2009-07-21 20:58:53] <KTC> but honestly, it might not look that good sending it so late now to the external speakers
[2009-07-21 20:58:56] <AndrewRT> yes thats one draw back of doing things in public
[2009-07-21 20:59:04] <AndrewRT> it creates expectations!
[2009-07-21 20:59:13] <KTC> doesn't exactly send the right msg to them about us
[2009-07-21 20:59:15] <Tango42> As long as we do it properly, Rand seems pretty open to all kinds of fundraising
[2009-07-21 20:59:53] <Tango42> What happened with the gifts? They seemed one of the easier actions to complete and I remember some progress being made on them
[2009-07-21 21:03:02] <mpeel> Tango42: lack of money for postage, as I understood it.
[2009-07-21 21:04:06] <Tango42> The charity has over £200 in the bank. A stamp costs 39p. (Ok, it's probably more than 100g, but you get my point!)
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[2009-07-21 21:04:49] <AndrewRT> well, it was about £30 actually
[2009-07-21 21:04:52] <mpeel> yes, it's something that should have been solvable...
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[2009-07-21 21:07:01] <KTC> hi
[2009-07-21 21:07:30] <Seddon> hey ktc :)
[2009-07-21 21:07:39] <Seddon> nice to see you here
[2009-07-21 21:07:39] <cfp> if a geonotice is a possibility that's a great idea.
[2009-07-21 21:08:10] <mpeel> what would we want to put on a geonotice?
[2009-07-21 21:12:27] <cfp> "Please consider supporting your local wikipedians by [joining] or [donating] to Wikimedia UK."
[2009-07-21 21:12:28] <KTC> blog is okay if people actually write in/for it
[2009-07-21 21:16:08] <KTC> what is this symposium?
[2009-07-21 21:16:39] <mpeel> "Pictures in Public – Digital Connections between Collections, Researchers and the Public"
[2009-07-21 21:16:47] <mpeel> it's related to the Public Catalogue Foudation
[2009-07-21 21:16:52] <mpeel> * Foundation
[2009-07-21 21:16:59] <mpeel> who are putting 200,000 oil paintings from the UK online
[2009-07-21 21:17:04] <KTC> i thought it was different to #1 result from google for Oxford Symposium :D
[2009-07-21 21:17:17] <KTC> cool cool
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[2009-07-21 21:21:50] <geniice> did we find out what consultation the goverment is currently doing over crown copyright?
[2009-07-21 21:22:28] <AndrewRT> huh?
[2009-07-21 21:22:37] <AndrewRT> steve is talkign to someone about this
[2009-07-21 21:22:43] <AndrewRT> but not via an official consultation
[2009-07-21 21:23:07] <geniice> there aparently is one
[2009-07-21 21:23:12] <geniice> I'd like to find it
[2009-07-21 21:23:23] <geniice> I haz opinions
[2009-07-21 21:24:58] <AndrewRT> please let me know if you find it
[2009-07-21 21:25:29] <KTC> Seddon : haven't got it yet :D
[2009-07-21 21:26:10] <AndrewRT> http://blogs.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/digitalengagement/post/2009/06/09/Data-So-what-happens-now.aspx
[2009-07-21 21:26:15] <AndrewRT> thsi post mentions it
[2009-07-21 21:26:48] <geniice> I'll go looking
[2009-07-21 21:35:38] <Tango42> Previous discussions thought it best not to charge for AGM/conference in order to improve attendance. It should be covered by membership fees, ideally.
[2009-07-21 21:36:10] <mpeel> £15 > £6/£12, though - so access to the whole OKCon conference couldn't be covered...
[2009-07-21 21:36:59] <Tango42> that is a problem with joint conferences...
[2009-07-21 21:37:15] <AndrewRT> do you think we shoudl have a joint conference then Tango?
[2009-07-21 21:37:33] <Tango42> I don't know... I did like the idea, but I didn't think of this problem
[2009-07-21 21:37:50] <Seddon> well if we were to run our own conference, the membership fees wouldnt cover the cost of running it
[2009-07-21 21:38:17] <Seddon> if it was just like the agm then possibly
[2009-07-21 21:38:19] <Tango42> Part of the benefit is economies of scale making it cheaper, so if they can't do if for less than £15, it seems unlikely that we could on our own
[2009-07-21 21:38:37] <AndrewRT> they do offer help for people who cant afford the fee
[2009-07-21 21:38:51] <Seddon> but i would be looking at a significantly larger audience for our own
[2009-07-21 21:38:51] <AndrewRT> and in reality most people would be paying more than £15 for travel there anyway
[2009-07-21 21:42:00] <geniice> where?
[2009-07-21 21:42:26] <Seddon> london
[2009-07-21 21:42:34] <Seddon> if we gave an early enough date
[2009-07-21 21:42:45] <Seddon> gave the date early enough*
[2009-07-21 22:08:28] <geniice> if Wikimedia-uk is going to have a fundraise can someone turn up at the london meetup with donation bucket
[2009-07-21 22:09:03] <mpeel> I have a big, bright orange bucket I can bring along to one... ;-)
[2009-07-21 22:11:11] <Tango42> a donation bucket and a stack of membership forms
[2009-07-21 22:16:33] <Tango42> sorry, I wasn't paying attention, what do I have comments on?
[2009-07-21 22:16:43] <mpeel> COI policy
[2009-07-21 22:17:00] <Tango42> ah, yes. I started one, but didn't get very far
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[2009-07-21 22:23:44] <KTC> shldn't we have concluded that before we set up the chapter ;)
[2009-07-21 22:24:39] <AndrewRT> well, we sort of discussed around it
[2009-07-21 22:28:21] <KTC> then fx / don't sign the new one
[2009-07-21 22:28:23] <KTC> *fix
[2009-07-21 22:29:46] <AndrewRT> do we want to spend time and money supporting non-Wikimedia projects?
[2009-07-21 22:31:16] <KTC> the idea of wikim/pedia is not wikim/pedia for wikim/pedia sake (at least for a lot of people), but it as part of open knowledge and what not with the focus on doing it via wikim/pedia 
[2009-07-21 22:31:40] <KTC> however, if a project further that objective but isn't funded by wikimedia
[2009-07-21 22:31:45] <KTC> i don't see why not support it
[2009-07-21 22:33:15] <KTC> definitely (in my eyes) "join us and support free knowledge". in this case, we just focus on doing it via wiki
[2009-07-21 22:33:54] <KTC> if it were the other one, wikimedia would never had started all its non wikipedia projects
[2009-07-21 22:36:51] <mpeel> KTC: huh?
[2009-07-21 22:37:00] <mpeel> "wikimedia would never had started all its non wikipedia projects" doesn't make sense
[2009-07-21 22:38:40] <KTC> "is it - join us and support Wikipedia etc" - if its that, or if wikiMedia started as a non-profit with aims of furthering an encylopedia or whatever, then it wouldn't have / can't have started any new projects
[2009-07-21 22:40:05] <KTC> if we say we are here to support wikipedia, wikinews, ...., then you're limiting yourself to the projects WMF has now, but not any they might yet to come up with, and limiting urself to the mean rather than the end goal
[2009-07-21 22:40:12] <AndrewRT> I meant Wikipedia etc = Wikipedia and teh other Wm projects
[2009-07-21 22:41:01] <KTC> "sum of all knowledge" - wikipedia, wikinews and whatever is the mean to that end
[2009-07-21 22:41:27] <KTC> we should be supporting that end, sure via the mean, but not to the exclusion of any other means to it
[2009-07-21 22:41:40] <mpeel> KTC: ah, I misread your comment as "wikimedia would never had started all its non _wikimedia_ projects" - oops. :)
[2009-07-21 22:44:59] <KTC> i think you might be right on section D
[2009-07-21 22:45:28] <KTC> there were a big news story recently about author not happy with having to go through all these checks / on certain register to read in school
[2009-07-21 22:45:51] <AndrewRT> yes I read that front page in the independent?
[2009-07-21 22:47:42] <geniice> philip pullman
[2009-07-21 22:48:13] <KTC> he was what made the news, but i don't think he's the only one with issues
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[2009-07-21 23:13:57] <Tango42> Seddon, let's talk over here
[2009-07-21 23:14:04] <Tango42> I think it's a good question
[2009-07-21 23:14:43] <Tango42> I still want to do a mini-fundraiser in the next few weeks - half to get some cash and half as a practice run for the winter drive
[2009-07-21 23:15:56] <Tango42> Seddon?
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[2009-07-21 23:17:22] <Seddon> yes, it might be worthwhile
[2009-07-21 23:18:00] <Tango42> I'm thinking £1,000-£10,000 would be a good range to aim for for the mini-drive
[2009-07-21 23:18:09] <Tango42> And £10,000-£100,000 for the major-drive
[2009-07-21 23:18:28] <Tango42> (Yes, those are rather big ranges, we want something more precise if we're going to have a progress bar)
[2009-07-21 23:19:50] <Seddon> hmmm ok, we really are on different levels of thinking
[2009-07-21 23:19:53] <Tango42> Did David Mitchell, or whoever it was that wrote that article, ever respond to our attempts at contact?
[2009-07-21 23:20:00] <Tango42> What are you thinking?
[2009-07-21 23:20:07] <Seddon> if we had a few hundred from the minidrive id be happy
[2009-07-21 23:20:20] <Seddon> £10000 as upper limit for major drive
[2009-07-21 23:20:33] <Tango42> 100 people donating £10 each and we've got £1000, that should be more than achievable
[2009-07-21 23:21:06] <geniice> Tango42>	 de doesn't get 100K and they are far better developed than us
[2009-07-21 23:21:23] <Tango42> de's total annual income is about €1,000,000
[2009-07-21 23:21:46] <Tango42> a sizable proportion of that comes from the WMF drive (not a majority, I think, but still a lot)
[2009-07-21 23:22:03] <Tango42> Where are you getting your numbers from?
[2009-07-21 23:22:23] <Seddon> Tango42: the dream center in my head
[2009-07-21 23:22:32] <Tango42> not you, geniice
[2009-07-21 23:23:14] <geniice> Tango42 what they were saying a few years back just before they got their full time employee
[2009-07-21 23:23:25] <Tango42> a few years back?
[2009-07-21 23:23:30] <Tango42> What relevance does that have?
[2009-07-21 23:23:59] <Tango42> The movement has grown a little since then...
[2009-07-21 23:24:42] <geniice> questionable
[2009-07-21 23:24:47] <Tango42> nonsense
[2009-07-21 23:25:00] <geniice> article creation rate has fallen
[2009-07-21 23:25:01] <Tango42> the movement has grown dramatically since then
[2009-07-21 23:25:18] <Tango42> If you aren't going to discuss this seriously, just go away
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[2009-07-21 23:30:19] <geniice> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Enwikipediagrowth6.PNG
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[2009-07-21 23:30:52] <Tango42> yes, I know the statistics
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[2009-07-21 23:31:17] <Tango42> Try looking at unique visitors per month - that's the one that most likely correlated with donations
[2009-07-21 23:31:52] <geniice> Only if you can find an effective way to appeal to the general public
[2009-07-21 23:32:20] <Tango42> well, obviously
[2009-07-21 23:32:34] <Tango42> you really aren't helping
[2009-07-21 23:34:30] <Tango42> Everyone - listen up
[2009-07-21 23:35:34] <Tango42> I have a deal for you. I will run a fundraising campaign starting 9th August and running for 2 weeks. It will raise over £1000. When it does, you people stop doubting me. Agreed?
[2009-07-21 23:36:32] <Tango42> Seddon, mpeel, AndrewRT, cfp, geniice?
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[2009-07-21 23:37:54] <geniice> I'm not doubting you.
[2009-07-21 23:38:53] <Tango42> you're doubting my memory of WMDE's accounts
[2009-07-21 23:39:31] <geniice> no we are simply looking at them in different ways
[2009-07-21 23:39:56] <Tango42> How many ways are there of seeing that a million euros is a lot of money?
[2009-07-21 23:40:48] <geniice> De is not UK. In particular there is no language abarrier between the WMF and the UK population.
[2009-07-21 23:41:17] <geniice> incerdently how are we doing on working out how to spend the foundation grant?
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[2009-07-21 23:42:20] <Tango42> Which is why I'm predicting a maximum of 10% of their income, likely just a little over 1%
[2009-07-21 23:42:52] <Tango42> Slow progress at the moment. It would help if our initiatives director turned up to meetings more often, and on time...
[2009-07-21 23:43:04] <geniice> if we can spend the foundation grant well then yes I would accept your fundraiseing targets as doable
[2009-07-21 23:43:35] <Tango42> well, the grant will take a year to spend, the winter drive is in less than 6 months
[2009-07-21 23:43:44] <Tango42> hopefully we can start spending it well
[2009-07-21 23:43:51] <Tango42> if we don't, then that will hurt donations
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[2009-07-21 23:45:30] <AndrewRT> hi Tangio
[2009-07-21 23:45:33] <AndrewRT> sorry been away
[2009-07-21 23:45:55] <AndrewRT> interesting suggestion - have you spoken to the director in charge of fundrauising, paul skenmy?
[2009-07-21 23:49:26] [ERROR] Unknown command ``tango42?''.
[2009-07-21 23:49:35] <AndrewRT> Tango42?
[2009-07-21 23:50:03] <Tango42> I've been talking to cfp, I thought he was in charge of fundraising
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[2009-07-21 23:50:23] <AndrewRT> cfp does the admin side, paul the volunteer side
[2009-07-21 23:51:16] <Tango42> i'm not really intending to get money of volunteers, they donate time. I'm getting money off the public
[2009-07-21 23:51:32] <AndrewRT> thats also covered by paul
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[2009-07-21 23:51:39] <AndrewRT> members & supporters
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[2009-07-21 23:52:50] <Tango42> Well, he's welcome to make contact with me and talk about it
[2009-07-21 23:53:04] <Tango42> At the moment, I'm just getting on with it
[2009-07-21 23:54:07] <AndrewRT> oh dear
[2009-07-21 23:54:10] <Tango42> Once I'm ready to go I will present a full proposal to the board who can rubber stamp it or not, their choice. If you reject it, though, you can expect me to give up on you as a lost cause, since I've done everything I can to get you to get on with it
[2009-07-21 23:54:19] <AndrewRT> now you're starting to worry me again
[2009-07-21 23:54:33] <Tango42> You should be worried
[2009-07-21 23:54:47] <Tango42> You're a failure of a board, which is why I'm having to get on with things myself
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[2009-07-21 23:58:04] <mpeel> sorry for not replying earlier
[2009-07-21 23:58:14] <mpeel> please Tango42 don't work in opposition to us - work with us
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[2009-07-21 23:58:31] <mpeel> talk to the appropriate people - in this case, skenmy.
[2009-07-21 23:58:31] <Tango42> I'm working for the good of the chapter, what you do is up to you
[2009-07-21 23:59:41] <Majorly> zomg drama
[2009-07-21 23:59:46] <Tango42> I've been talking to you and cfp at length. Neither of you have previously mentioned that skenmy is apparently in charge of fundraising
[2009-07-21 23:59:57] <Tango42> I haven't seen him do anything related to fundraising