Meetings/2009-08-05/IRC

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[2009-08-05 20:29:20] <Seddon> well thats not too bad timing
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[2009-08-05 20:36:57] =-= Topic for #wikimedia-uk-board is ``The next Wikimedia UK board meeting will be here on Wednesday 5 August at 8.30pm BST | Agenda at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-08-05/Agenda | Please come and listen but only Board members will be voiced | Please share your comments in #Wikimedia-UK''
[2009-08-05 20:36:57] =-= Topic for #wikimedia-uk-board was set by mpeel on 02 August 2009 05:53:46
[2009-08-05 20:36:57] === #wikimedia-uk-board http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/
[2009-08-05 20:37:09] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk-board +v AndrewRT_  by ChanServ
[2009-08-05 20:37:16] <mpeel> hi AndrewRT_ 
[2009-08-05 20:37:43] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk-board +m  by mpeel
[2009-08-05 20:38:22] =-= YOU are now known as AndrewRT
[2009-08-05 20:38:32] <Seddon> ok sorted
[2009-08-05 20:38:38] <AndrewRT> sorry about that connection problems
[2009-08-05 20:38:49] <AndrewRT> hi all
[2009-08-05 20:38:53] <mpeel> ok, shall we get started?
[2009-08-05 20:39:10] [INFO] You are no longer marked as away.
[2009-08-05 20:39:25] <AndrewRT> sure
[2009-08-05 20:40:22] <mpeel> ok. If I stop saying anything for a long period of time, I've probably either dropped off to sleep or lost my internet connection...
[2009-08-05 20:40:27] <mpeel> Agenda is at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-08-05/Agenda
[2009-08-05 20:40:42] <mpeel> 1. Apologies for Absence
[2009-08-05 20:40:49] <mpeel> Steve has sent his apologies
[2009-08-05 20:41:01] <mpeel> I can't remember hearing anything from skenmy
[2009-08-05 20:41:12] <Seddon> mpeel see above
[2009-08-05 20:41:19] <AndrewRT> i can see him but marked as away
[2009-08-05 20:41:35] -->| randmontoya (n=randmont@dsl017-048-227.sfo4.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #wikimedia-uk-board
[2009-08-05 20:41:38] <AndrewRT> seddon?
[2009-08-05 20:41:42] <mpeel> ok, thanks Seddon - he's not around.
[2009-08-05 20:41:57] <mpeel> Seddon: skenmy i know was away yesterday and was on his way back from somewhere
[2009-08-05 20:42:03] <mpeel> (quote from earlier)
[2009-08-05 20:42:11] <mpeel> 2. Minutes of Meeting dated 2009-07-21 and 2009-07-28 - approval & actions
[2009-08-05 20:42:12] <AndrewRT> has anyone spoken to him today?
[2009-08-05 20:42:24] <Seddon> no ill try and ring him now
[2009-08-05 20:42:46] <AndrewRT> shall we continue with the mins in teh meantime?
[2009-08-05 20:43:06] <mpeel> just to check - cfp, are you hear?
[2009-08-05 20:43:08] <mpeel> * hear = here
[2009-08-05 20:43:11] <cfp> yeah i'm here
[2009-08-05 20:43:17] <mpeel> thanks
[2009-08-05 20:43:26] <mpeel> ok, minutes
[2009-08-05 20:43:32] <mpeel> at: http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-07-21
[2009-08-05 20:43:37] <mpeel> and http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-07-28
[2009-08-05 20:43:43] <mpeel> is everyone happy with them?
[2009-08-05 20:43:53] <AndrewRT> i am ;)
[2009-08-05 20:43:55] <cfp> yeah.
[2009-08-05 20:44:00] <AndrewRT> zeyi?
[2009-08-05 20:44:02] <zeyi> yes
[2009-08-05 20:44:18] <mpeel> On the first - there's an unmarked action on AndrewRT - " AT expects to send out the details of the February 2009 Wikipedia Loves Art prizes this week."
[2009-08-05 20:44:24] <mpeel> and on the second, there's another one on zeyi
[2009-08-05 20:44:37] <AndrewRT> I've marked this as cf now
[2009-08-05 20:44:38] <cfp> andrew's sorted the former
[2009-08-05 20:44:40] <Seddon> skenmy will do his best to commandeer a laptop
[2009-08-05 20:45:19] <mpeel> ah, thanks AndrewRT. There's still one on zeyi under "Role of Board, Chair, Secretary, Initiatives Director"
[2009-08-05 20:45:25] <AndrewRT> zeyi - you haven't managed to do an initiatives report for today?
[2009-08-05 20:46:00] <zeyi> I have contected every leaders,
[2009-08-05 20:46:16] <zeyi> nothing can report for last week
[2009-08-05 20:46:45] <zeyi> as we just finish the initiative meeting the last week,
[2009-08-05 20:47:02] <zeyi> three projects just started to prepare to do something
[2009-08-05 20:47:04] <zeyi> :)
[2009-08-05 20:47:14] <AndrewRT> ok would you mind just sayign that briefly on http://uk.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Meetings/2009-08-05/Agenda/Initiatives_Report&action=edit&redlink=1
[2009-08-05 20:47:25] <zeyi> ok, do now
[2009-08-05 20:47:29] <mpeel> ok, AndrewRT - do you want to run us through the actions?
[2009-08-05 20:47:35] <AndrewRT> sure
[2009-08-05 20:47:40] <AndrewRT> starting with the first set of minutes
[2009-08-05 20:47:54] <AndrewRT> http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-07-21
[2009-08-05 20:48:05] <AndrewRT> 2. TD agreed to contact the gazette on behalf of WMUK to solicit a pro-bono lawyer
[2009-08-05 20:48:26] <AndrewRT> given the discussions on the email list, I'd like to suggest we drop this action
[2009-08-05 20:48:34] <AndrewRT> hence I've marked (not done)
[2009-08-05 20:48:42] <AndrewRT> is that ok?
[2009-08-05 20:48:52] <mpeel> doesn't that want to be {{canc}}?
[2009-08-05 20:48:58] <AndrewRT> yes good point
[2009-08-05 20:49:02] <mpeel> that's probably wise, although we may want to consider this course of action later in the meeting...
[2009-08-05 20:49:13] <AndrewRT> changed
[2009-08-05 20:49:31] <AndrewRT> sure, shall we come back to it if need be?
[2009-08-05 20:49:35] <mpeel> ok
[2009-08-05 20:49:43] <AndrewRT> > 3. The cost to attend the Online Information 2009 (1-3 Dec, London) co....
[2009-08-05 20:49:56] <AndrewRT> Steve etal have tried to get a free slot but haven't been able
[2009-08-05 20:50:00] <AndrewRT> so we can close that too
[2009-08-05 20:50:09] <mpeel> yup
[2009-08-05 20:50:19] <AndrewRT> > AT expects to send out the details of the February 2009 Wikipedia Loves Art prizes this week.
[2009-08-05 20:50:20] <mpeel> not the best way to close actions, but never mind...
[2009-08-05 20:50:34] <AndrewRT> spoke to the last prize giver this afternoon
[2009-08-05 20:50:42] <AndrewRT> so those are now ready to send out ASAP
[2009-08-05 20:50:57] <mpeel> great. Can these be announced in the upcoming newsletter?
[2009-08-05 20:50:58] -->| GDonato (n=GDonato@wikimedia/GDonato) has joined #wikimedia-uk-board
[2009-08-05 20:51:05] <AndrewRT> yes good idea
[2009-08-05 20:51:19] <AndrewRT> there's no other things I'd like to mention with the actions from 21st - are there any qs?
[2009-08-05 20:51:34] <mpeel> "JS agreed to check with the Open Knowledge Foundation if we can advertise for members on their mailing list."
[2009-08-05 20:51:43] <mpeel> that was marked " Done (yes)"
[2009-08-05 20:51:45] <AndrewRT> he has and we can
[2009-08-05 20:51:55] <mpeel> does that mean that we can advertise, or that we have advertised?
[2009-08-05 20:52:00] <AndrewRT> seddon?
[2009-08-05 20:52:35] <Seddon> we can, id like to draft up an email and get it vetted by the board through email this week
[2009-08-05 20:52:44] <AndrewRT> thanks seddon
[2009-08-05 20:52:54] <mpeel> great, thanks Seddon - can that be put down as an action?
[2009-08-05 20:52:59] <Seddon> yep
[2009-08-05 20:52:59] <AndrewRT> sure I'll do that
[2009-08-05 20:53:11] <AndrewRT> any other qs on 21st?
[2009-08-05 20:53:47] <mpeel> none from me
[2009-08-05 20:53:59] <AndrewRT> cfp, zeyi?
[2009-08-05 20:54:27] <AndrewRT> seddon?
[2009-08-05 20:54:30] <AndrewRT> presume none
[2009-08-05 20:54:36] <AndrewRT> onto the mins of 28th: http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-07-28
[2009-08-05 20:54:39] <cfp> nope
[2009-08-05 20:55:12] <AndrewRT> all the actions are self-explanatory
[2009-08-05 20:55:25] <AndrewRT> so there's none I want to mention in particular - any qs on these?
[2009-08-05 20:55:37] <AndrewRT> I've marked Zeyi's as "done" now
[2009-08-05 20:55:56] <mpeel> all seems ok to me
[2009-08-05 20:56:41] <zeyi> ok, thanks, Andrew
[2009-08-05 20:57:06] <mpeel> cfp, Seddon - happy with the actions from the 28th?
[2009-08-05 20:57:14] <Seddon> yep all good
[2009-08-05 20:57:23] <cfp> yes
[2009-08-05 20:57:30] <mpeel> thanks. Moving along.
[2009-08-05 20:57:33] <mpeel> 3. Matters arising 
[2009-08-05 20:57:38] <mpeel> 3.1. Use of wikipedia.org.uk as a portal for WMUK (MP)
[2009-08-05 20:57:55] * mpeel tries to remember if he added this
[2009-08-05 20:58:14] <mpeel> ah, AndrewRT added it.
[2009-08-05 20:58:23] <AndrewRT> it was from a previous action
[2009-08-05 20:58:41] <AndrewRT> you were to find out what revenue WM-DE get from their portal
[2009-08-05 20:58:50] <mpeel> so, there was an email sent around from WMDE showing the benefits (and experienced drawbacks) of having such a portal
[2009-08-05 20:58:51] <AndrewRT> and then the board was to discuss if we wnat to do the same
[2009-08-05 20:59:30] <cfp> i still think it's a bad idea, both in terms of usability and in terms of the legal risks
[2009-08-05 20:59:50] <mpeel> I'm inclined to agree with cfp now.
[2009-08-05 20:59:52] <AndrewRT> echo cfp
[2009-08-05 21:00:05] <AndrewRT> it seem to be revenue vs risks
[2009-08-05 21:00:12] <mpeel> Seddon, zeyi - what do you think?
[2009-08-05 21:00:15] <Seddon> i like to note that i stand on the opposite side of the fence on this one
[2009-08-05 21:00:20] <AndrewRT> and the risks are too unquantified atm
[2009-08-05 21:00:26] <Seddon> i agree the risks exist
[2009-08-05 21:00:39] <Seddon> andrewrt nails it on the head right there 
[2009-08-05 21:00:53] <mpeel> do the benefits outweigh the risks + time spent on it, though?
[2009-08-05 21:01:04] <AndrewRT> can we easily quantify the risks better?
[2009-08-05 21:01:06] <Seddon> we dont know do we
[2009-08-05 21:01:13] <Seddon> atm its all conjecture
[2009-08-05 21:01:16] <zeyi> I am afraid we can handle this risk
[2009-08-05 21:01:21] <Seddon> we have nothing concrete either way
[2009-08-05 21:01:59] <mpeel> I'm not sure that there will be anything more concrete than WMDE's experiences.
[2009-08-05 21:02:00] <Seddon> that is what we need to establish, find out the risks, run a test for a few months to see what the traffic is
[2009-08-05 21:02:09] <AndrewRT> is it worth getting advice on it atm?
[2009-08-05 21:02:17] <mpeel> AndrewRT: who from? a lawyer?
[2009-08-05 21:02:26] <AndrewRT> i guess so
[2009-08-05 21:02:33] <Seddon> mpeel, then if we take that as stick in the sand, if we are taking as much money as them then it is in my opinion most definitely worth it
[2009-08-05 21:02:48] <Seddon> but we need to find all this out
[2009-08-05 21:03:04] <AndrewRT> find it out from whom - presumably a lawyer?
[2009-08-05 21:03:04] <Seddon> i think we should at some point in the future get legal advice on the situation
[2009-08-05 21:03:10] <Seddon> yes
[2009-08-05 21:03:30] <AndrewRT> i suggest we park it and com back in, say, 6 months
[2009-08-05 21:03:31] <Seddon> we need a long term pro bono lawyer anyway
[2009-08-05 21:03:37] <AndrewRT> _come_
[2009-08-05 21:03:50] <Seddon> id be happy to go with that
[2009-08-05 21:04:05] <Seddon> i dont think writing it off is a good move nor going into it blindly
[2009-08-05 21:04:46] <mpeel> I'm slightly worried about the domain in the meantime - whether it will be squatted, or redirected to something bad.
[2009-08-05 21:05:04] <mpeel> rather than parking it, is it worth assisting the WMF in obtaining the domain?
[2009-08-05 21:05:13] <cfp> i get the im
[2009-08-05 21:05:15] <cfp> sorry
[2009-08-05 21:05:23] <cfp> i got the impression that no assistance was necessary
[2009-08-05 21:05:29] <cfp> though we could point htat out to them again
[2009-08-05 21:05:33] <cfp> as they 
[2009-08-05 21:05:35] <mpeel> assistance = poking and prodding until they do something. ;)
[2009-08-05 21:05:53] <cfp> fine
[2009-08-05 21:05:56] <cfp> sounds sensible then
[2009-08-05 21:05:57] <Seddon> the man that owns it said that he is more than happy to continue to hold the domain and protect it from being misused
[2009-08-05 21:06:06] <Seddon> he isnt a domain reseller or anything like that
[2009-08-05 21:06:28] <Seddon> he is just an ordinary dude who seem to be interested in the best interest of the foundation
[2009-08-05 21:06:32] <Seddon> and us
[2009-08-05 21:06:38] <AndrewRT> sounds good
[2009-08-05 21:06:42] <mpeel> sounds like the type of person that we should encourage to become a member
[2009-08-05 21:07:10] <mpeel> ok, so conclusion: leave for now, return to later in the year?
[2009-08-05 21:07:10] <AndrewRT> in that case shall we just leave it as it is for now and revisit in ~Jan
[2009-08-05 21:07:23] <Seddon> yer
[2009-08-05 21:07:24] <mpeel> I guess we can have an initiative proposal written up in the meantime for this.
[2009-08-05 21:08:03] <mpeel> ok, moving on. 4. Reports (5 mins/ea max) 
[2009-08-05 21:08:07] <mpeel> 4.1 Secretary (AT)
[2009-08-05 21:08:11] <mpeel> report at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-08-05/Agenda/Secretary%27s_Report
[2009-08-05 21:08:37] <AndrewRT> I sent a couple of emails about this too
[2009-08-05 21:08:49] <mpeel> Re: point (1) - would everyone be happy with moving the website to http://www.wikimedia.org.uk , subject to this being technically possible?
[2009-08-05 21:08:54] <AndrewRT> I plan to sent a reply to the charity saying sorry cant help
[2009-08-05 21:09:08] <AndrewRT> i would support that mpeel
[2009-08-05 21:09:11] <mpeel> (i.e. keeping hosting by the WMF & SUL etc.)
[2009-08-05 21:09:22] <Seddon> i would too asap
[2009-08-05 21:09:57] <mpeel> please action me to enquire about that, then.
[2009-08-05 21:10:00] <AndrewRT> ok
[2009-08-05 21:10:07] <mpeel> (assuming cfp, zeyi are happy)
[2009-08-05 21:10:09] <AndrewRT> any other qs on my report? 
[2009-08-05 21:10:15] <cfp> sounds fine. could we move to gb.wikimedia.org and have wikimedia.org.uk as a redirect if it's not technically possible
[2009-08-05 21:10:51] <mpeel> cfp: I'm not sure that I like the idea of using "gb" - I don't think it encompasses the whole of the UK as well as "uk" does...
[2009-08-05 21:11:18] <AndrewRT> as a backup might be worth it
[2009-08-05 21:11:24] <cfp> there was a comment on the talk page saying it does in certain contexts
[2009-08-05 21:11:37] <AndrewRT> in case we cant do .org.uk for whatever reason
[2009-08-05 21:11:45] <cfp> e.g. the olympics. and apparently some iso code if i remember right
[2009-08-05 21:11:59] <Seddon> GB encompases it even less
[2009-08-05 21:12:01] <mpeel> the other possibility would be to not use the WMF to host the wiki
[2009-08-05 21:12:25] <mpeel> setting up a new wiki and importing the existing content is easily possible, but we'd lose features like SUL.
[2009-08-05 21:12:26] <AndrewRT> do you want to look into it and report back?
[2009-08-05 21:13:00] <mpeel> ok
[2009-08-05 21:13:22] <Seddon> i dont see the problem myself
[2009-08-05 21:13:24] -->| zeyi_ (i=561895fc@gateway/web/freenode/x-dgguisuzbzjgiyml) has joined #wikimedia-uk-board
[2009-08-05 21:13:33] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk-board +v zeyi_  by ChanServ
[2009-08-05 21:13:43] <AndrewRT> u ok there zeyi?
[2009-08-05 21:13:47] |<-- zeyi has left irc.freenode.net ("Page closed")
[2009-08-05 21:14:09] <Seddon> i think we should just stay where we are
[2009-08-05 21:14:20] <mpeel> moving along, 4.2 Treasurer (TH) - cfp's report is at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-08-05/Agenda/Treasurer%27s_Report
[2009-08-05 21:14:31] <cfp> any c
[2009-08-05 21:14:36] <cfp> questions
[2009-08-05 21:14:42] <mpeel> woo re: bank account balance. :)
[2009-08-05 21:14:57] <AndrewRT> great news
[2009-08-05 21:15:20] <AndrewRT> do we need any controls in place to ensure the designated funds from the WMF 
[2009-08-05 21:15:21] <mpeel> internet banking - I hadn't received anything as of the 1st August; anything since then I won't know about until saturday.
[2009-08-05 21:15:30] <AndrewRT> ...are not spent on general admin, for instance
[2009-08-05 21:15:50] <cfp> i've created sub accounts in gnucash
[2009-08-05 21:16:18] <cfp> so it'll be clear from the accounts that they haven't been spent on general admin etc
[2009-08-05 21:16:31] <AndrewRT> cheers
[2009-08-05 21:16:55] <AndrewRT> no other qs from me
[2009-08-05 21:17:07] <cfp> are we happy with the fact it wasn't £5k
[2009-08-05 21:17:25] <cfp> do we want to try and get what we lost due to currency movements?
[2009-08-05 21:17:35] <mpeel> I'm not sure that we have a choice.
[2009-08-05 21:17:41] <mpeel> and I don't think it particularly matters...
[2009-08-05 21:17:52] <mpeel> it gets us over the £5K CC application boundary anyway
[2009-08-05 21:17:58] <Seddon> if we spend 5000 between now and then, ill be suprised
[2009-08-05 21:18:04] <cfp> ok that was my inclination
[2009-08-05 21:18:27] <AndrewRT> not a problem as long as we have >£5k total
[2009-08-05 21:18:44] <mpeel> could we have seperate balances for each initiative in future reports? is that possible?
[2009-08-05 21:19:19] <cfp> sure
[2009-08-05 21:19:22] <mpeel> thanks cfp
[2009-08-05 21:19:31] <mpeel> shall we move on?
[2009-08-05 21:19:35] <cfp> k
[2009-08-05 21:19:38] <mpeel> 4.3 Chair (MP) - rather short report at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-08-05/Agenda/Chair%27s_Report . I've also been doing various bits and pieces, but nothing that I felt needed to be included in the report. Any comments/questions?
[2009-08-05 21:19:57] <AndrewRT> Wikimedia Ukraine
[2009-08-05 21:20:08] <AndrewRT> have you spoken to their board?
[2009-08-05 21:20:26] <mpeel> not since the 23rd july
[2009-08-05 21:20:45] <mpeel> I need to follow that up at some point.
[2009-08-05 21:21:01] <AndrewRT> ok no qs other than that
[2009-08-05 21:21:25] <mpeel> 4.4 Initiatives (zeyi_) - report is at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-08-05/Agenda/Initiatives_Report
[2009-08-05 21:21:48] <AndrewRT> thanks zeyi for that
[2009-08-05 21:22:02] <mpeel> I'm rather puzzled by "The prize of Britain loves Wikipedia has been concerned."
[2009-08-05 21:22:12] <mpeel> is that Wikipedia Loves Art?
[2009-08-05 21:22:17] <AndrewRT> i guess so
[2009-08-05 21:22:28] <mpeel> zeyi_?
[2009-08-05 21:22:53] <skenmy> Hi all!
[2009-08-05 21:22:58] <AndrewRT> hi paul!
[2009-08-05 21:22:58] <mpeel> hi skenmy 
[2009-08-05 21:23:12] <skenmy> Been away since Sunday
[2009-08-05 21:23:14] <mpeel> skenmy: can you see the logs above, or do you want a quick description of where we're at?
[2009-08-05 21:23:17] <skenmy> just got home :)
[2009-08-05 21:23:22] <skenmy> i have logs
[2009-08-05 21:23:26] <AndrewRT> http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-08-05/Agenda - we're at 4.4
[2009-08-05 21:23:38] <AndrewRT> zeyi_ you there?
[2009-08-05 21:23:42] <skenmy> thanks
[2009-08-05 21:23:46] [INFO] Ping reply from zeyi_ in 1.22 seconds.
[2009-08-05 21:23:55] <zeyi_> sorry, here
[2009-08-05 21:24:07] <AndrewRT> mpeel>	I'm rather puzzled by "The prize of Britain loves Wikipedia has been concerned."
[2009-08-05 21:24:26] <AndrewRT> presume that's Wikipedia Loves Art - the one we ran in Feb 2009?
[2009-08-05 21:25:00] <zeyi_> yes, it is, I thought we discussed it at begining?
[2009-08-05 21:25:21] <AndrewRT> yep, just teh name needs changing
[2009-08-05 21:25:29] <mpeel> we did - was confused as Britain Loves Wikipedia is a different initiative.
[2009-08-05 21:26:01] <mpeel> anything else we want to discuss here?
[2009-08-05 21:26:12] <AndrewRT> one from me
[2009-08-05 21:26:19] <AndrewRT> on http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Initiatives#Timeline
[2009-08-05 21:26:28] <AndrewRT> we have a deadine for the end of this month
[2009-08-05 21:26:36] <AndrewRT> "Establish a plan for each initiative including timetable, aim and outline costing"
[2009-08-05 21:26:56] <AndrewRT> zeyi could you follow up with each initiative leader whether we are on track with this?
[2009-08-05 21:27:20] <zeyi_> yes, do it before every meeting :)
[2009-08-05 21:27:26] <AndrewRT> thanks
[2009-08-05 21:27:30] <AndrewRT> no more from me
[2009-08-05 21:27:57] <mpeel> 4.5 Conferences (Seddon) - report is at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-08-05/Agenda/Conferences%27s_Report
[2009-08-05 21:28:06] <AndrewRT> thanks for that seddon
[2009-08-05 21:28:11] <AndrewRT> no qs from me
[2009-08-05 21:28:35] <mpeel> I'm happy - is everyone else?
[2009-08-05 21:28:49] <mpeel> (looking at cfp, skenmy, zeyi_ , and of course Seddon )
[2009-08-05 21:28:58] <skenmy> nothing here!
[2009-08-05 21:29:05] <zeyi_> none here
[2009-08-05 21:29:14] <cfp> nothing
[2009-08-05 21:29:27] <mpeel> 4.6 Corporate relations (SV) I guess we'll skip over, unless anyone's heard a report from him.
[2009-08-05 21:29:35] <skenmy> Nope
[2009-08-05 21:29:36] <Seddon> i need to discuss with board members one to one on the repercussions of my CC searcj
[2009-08-05 21:29:38] <AndrewRT> i can give an update if you want
[2009-08-05 21:29:39] <Seddon> search
[2009-08-05 21:29:53] <mpeel> Seddon: discuss in the next section?
[2009-08-05 21:30:00] <Seddon> yes prehaps
[2009-08-05 21:30:02] <mpeel> AndrewRT: if you could.
[2009-08-05 21:30:09] <AndrewRT> k update:
[2009-08-05 21:30:15] <AndrewRT> spoke to steve v yesterday
[2009-08-05 21:30:22] <AndrewRT> he's very busy with work atm
[2009-08-05 21:30:39] <AndrewRT> he's ok for me to share that he's facing possible redundancy
[2009-08-05 21:30:49] <AndrewRT> so is having to focus his efforts there 
[2009-08-05 21:30:58] <AndrewRT> and will be out of action for maybe a week or two
[2009-08-05 21:31:13] <AndrewRT> afterwards he'll be coming back and working on WMUK stuff again!
[2009-08-05 21:31:23] <AndrewRT> he has heard from Steve Bowbrick at BBC
[2009-08-05 21:31:39] <AndrewRT> he rang SV after receieving a nice bottle of wine!
[2009-08-05 21:31:52] <AndrewRT> SB wants to progress the BBC now which is good news
[2009-08-05 21:32:01] <mpeel> that is good
[2009-08-05 21:32:08] <AndrewRT> thats' it!
[2009-08-05 21:32:23] <mpeel> are there any actions on him that need to be done urgently, that could be done by the rest of us? Or are all his actions OK to wait for his return?
[2009-08-05 21:32:42] <AndrewRT> i asked him that - he said not atm, will refer things if anythign arises
[2009-08-05 21:32:50] <mpeel> ok, thanks AndrewRT 
[2009-08-05 21:33:28] <mpeel> 4.7 Volunteers report (skenmy)
[2009-08-05 21:33:31] <mpeel> nothing on wiki
[2009-08-05 21:33:35] <skenmy> Nothing to report here - been away for a few days. 
[2009-08-05 21:33:35] <AndrewRT> presume nothing to report skenmy?
[2009-08-05 21:33:41] <skenmy> However
[2009-08-05 21:33:43] <AndrewRT> that's fine
[2009-08-05 21:33:59] <skenmy> I am concerned that my business card action is dragging on and on
[2009-08-05 21:34:01] * mpeel mentally swaps around the order of those statements)
[2009-08-05 21:34:39] <mpeel> skenmy: what is holding the action up at the moment?
[2009-08-05 21:34:41] <AndrewRT> good point - I've marked it as "done"
[2009-08-05 21:34:52] <AndrewRT> cfp and I wanted to see if we could find cheaper ones
[2009-08-05 21:34:53] <skenmy> my lack of time
[2009-08-05 21:35:25] <AndrewRT> are you just waiting on us?
[2009-08-05 21:35:42] <skenmy> Partially
[2009-08-05 21:36:08] <cfp> i thought i sent an email on this during the last board meeting
[2009-08-05 21:36:17] <AndrewRT> i'm aware that you've got a lot of actions
[2009-08-05 21:36:37] <AndrewRT> atm skenmy - do you want to transfer some to someone else?
[2009-08-05 21:36:41] <skenmy> I'm concerned that I am holding this up
[2009-08-05 21:37:03] <skenmy> if anyone wants to take the business cards on I won't stop them :)
[2009-08-05 21:37:41] <AndrewRT> I can do it if you want and no one else objects
[2009-08-05 21:37:51] <cfp> go ahead andrew, thanks
[2009-08-05 21:37:54] <skenmy> That would be handy
[2009-08-05 21:38:16] <AndrewRT> ok
[2009-08-05 21:38:19] <mpeel> thanks AndrewRT 
[2009-08-05 21:38:57] <AndrewRT> is that all for your report skenmy?
[2009-08-05 21:38:58] <mpeel> skenmy: it would be good to see some progress with the membership drive, if you're able to find the time.
[2009-08-05 21:39:07] <skenmy> sure thing
[2009-08-05 21:39:15] <skenmy> I will try and prioritise that
[2009-08-05 21:39:23] <skenmy> that's all from me :)
[2009-08-05 21:39:33] <mpeel> On to the main business of the evening, then. 5. Charity Commission application (AT) 
[2009-08-05 21:39:46] <AndrewRT> i think the first section's yours :)
[2009-08-05 21:39:48] <mpeel> (draft application is at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Charity_Commission_application )
[2009-08-05 21:39:53] <mpeel> darn. :)
[2009-08-05 21:39:55] <AndrewRT> http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Charity_Commission_application#C_Assessing_the_organisation.E2.80.99s_public_benefit
[2009-08-05 21:40:23] <mpeel> I have an action to add our response to HMRC as an appendix to this.
[2009-08-05 21:40:30] <mpeel> ... which I will try to do sooner rather than later.
[2009-08-05 21:40:31] <AndrewRT> approval was put on hold pending decision on whether we should just support WMF projects or also other free content work
[2009-08-05 21:40:51] <AndrewRT> mpeel posted an email to mailing list which hasn't had much response
[2009-08-05 21:40:56] <mpeel> was the conclusion of that to support other free content work as possible/appropriate?
[2009-08-05 21:41:13] <AndrewRT> I've posted an email to the chapters list - quite a few other chapters support non-WMF free content
[2009-08-05 21:41:18] <mpeel> based on the discussions in the last meeting, and also the emails on the chapters mailing list.
[2009-08-05 21:41:21] <AndrewRT> yeah I'm happy to go with that conclusion
[2009-08-05 21:41:45] <mpeel> is this appropriately phrased in this section?
[2009-08-05 21:41:59] <mpeel> i.e. by "Currently, our primary means of making said content available is via the projects of the Wikimedia Foundation - including Wikipedia, Wikimedia Commons, etc. - but also include such services as Flickr (an image hosting website)."
[2009-08-05 21:42:07] <AndrewRT> I'd still rather you didn't refer to flickr
[2009-08-05 21:42:14] <AndrewRT> which after all is a commercial service 
[2009-08-05 21:42:44] <mpeel> that doesn't matter - it's still making free content available.
[2009-08-05 21:43:03] <mpeel> however, I'm happy for the mention of that to be removed, if we have an alternative phrasing.
[2009-08-05 21:43:07] <AndrewRT> i wont push it!
[2009-08-05 21:43:45] <AndrewRT> is everyone happy with section C as it now stands?
[2009-08-05 21:44:10] <skenmy> no problems here!
[2009-08-05 21:44:12] <mpeel> with the exception of the addition of appendices
[2009-08-05 21:44:17] <AndrewRT> sure
[2009-08-05 21:44:51] <mpeel> I will mark any future changes i make to this in bold, and will draw them to the attention of you all.
[2009-08-05 21:45:08] <mpeel> cfp, Seddon, zeyi_ - is this section OK with you?
[2009-08-05 21:45:25] <zeyi_> fine for me
[2009-08-05 21:45:50] <cfp> yup
[2009-08-05 21:46:03] <Seddon> yep, if anything comes up, ill mail the board
[2009-08-05 21:46:29] <mpeel> ok, I think that's this section done.
[2009-08-05 21:46:35] <mpeel> 5.2 Section D (vulnerable people) - see CRB & Child Protection (JS)
[2009-08-05 21:46:38] <mpeel> Seddon?
[2009-08-05 21:47:26] <Seddon> ok, in a nutshell, if we are gonna be going into schools, all trustees will need to have CRB's done, plus any member that wants to go into schools
[2009-08-05 21:47:37] <Seddon> it also requires us to have child protection policies
[2009-08-05 21:47:41] <mpeel> are we legally entitled to do that?
[2009-08-05 21:48:05] <Seddon> what do you mean by entitled?
[2009-08-05 21:48:14] <AndrewRT> mpeel - my understand is yes, and we're obliged to
[2009-08-05 21:48:19] <mpeel> just finding link ... internet is being solw.
[2009-08-05 21:48:54] <mpeel> "Are you entitled to ask exempted questions under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (ROA) 1974 Exceptions Order 1975?"
[2009-08-05 21:48:58] <mpeel> from http://www.crb.gov.uk/using_the_website/new_organisation.aspx
[2009-08-05 21:49:01] <Seddon> if we have regular contact with children, we have to
[2009-08-05 21:49:18] <Seddon> yes its a requirement
[2009-08-05 21:49:19] <mpeel> we need to know which category of http://www.crb.gov.uk/guidance/rb_guidance/eligible_posts.aspx applies
[2009-08-05 21:49:49] <mpeel> presumably 04?
[2009-08-05 21:49:54] <AndrewRT> "charity trustee of a children's charity"
[2009-08-05 21:50:01] <AndrewRT> 07
[2009-08-05 21:50:19] <mpeel> is there a definition of "children's charity"?
[2009-08-05 21:50:22] <AndrewRT> volunteers wont be working unsupervised
[2009-08-05 21:50:35] <Seddon> a charity that has regular contact with children
[2009-08-05 21:51:01] <mpeel> ok. I've always interpreted "children's charity" as a charity that exists purely for the benefit of children - e.g. NPCC
[2009-08-05 21:51:21] <AndrewRT> i would say it's 01 actually - "A position whose normal duties include work in one of the following establishments: iv. an educational institution exclusively or mainly for children (under 18’s)"
[2009-08-05 21:51:30] <AndrewRT> mpeel - hehe, if only!
[2009-08-05 21:51:30] <mpeel> sorry, NPCC = NSPCC
[2009-08-05 21:52:10] <mpeel> ok, 01 makes sense to me.
[2009-08-05 21:52:29] <Seddon> mpeel, as a charity, the CC recommends conducting CRB's on all trustees anyway
[2009-08-05 21:52:40] <mpeel> so, Seddon, what do we need to do?
[2009-08-05 21:52:59] <Seddon> well we need to get legal advice
[2009-08-05 21:53:13] <AndrewRT> there's another issue with this
[2009-08-05 21:53:25] <Seddon> and consider whether at this time, going into schools will make our application more difficult
[2009-08-05 21:53:34] <AndrewRT> seddon, you mentioned before that if we apply ...
[2009-08-05 21:53:37] <AndrewRT> beat me to it!
[2009-08-05 21:54:08] <AndrewRT> so is one option to delay the schools project until after the charity application has been resolved?
[2009-08-05 21:54:32] <Seddon> yes, and then discuss with the CC what they would require
[2009-08-05 21:54:49] <zeyi_> how long we can figure out this ?
[2009-08-05 21:55:05] <AndrewRT> the other option presumably is to get all the systems, procedures checks in place now when we apply?
[2009-08-05 21:55:40] <AndrewRT> zeyi_ - i guess it will take a few months for the CC to decide
[2009-08-05 21:55:53] <Seddon> yes its between delaying one initiative, or delaying the chapter getting charity status for months longer
[2009-08-05 21:56:04] <mpeel> I would expect that there will be some back-and-forth discussion.
[2009-08-05 21:56:17] <AndrewRT> one initiative = our biggest initiative!
[2009-08-05 21:56:17] <zeyi_> so if we go for 1st choice, we have to delay school project as three main initiatives?
[2009-08-05 21:56:18] <Seddon> as catering for vulnerable children will add complexity to our application
[2009-08-05 21:56:22] <mpeel> is the work required for a child protection policy really that long?
[2009-08-05 21:56:29] <Seddon> let me find it 
[2009-08-05 21:56:42] <mpeel> we can say that we are currently carrying out CRB checks, and do that in parallel with the application to CC.
[2009-08-05 21:57:04] <AndrewRT> mpeel - i agree with doing in parallel
[2009-08-05 21:57:05] <mpeel> just saying "we were unclear as to whether we could apply for CRB checks; now that we are clear on this, we are requesting them."
[2009-08-05 21:57:31] <mpeel> + "as we have not yet gone into schools (a project that we have just started), we do not believe this is a problem as yet."
[2009-08-05 21:57:38] <skenmy> I'm sorry all - but I have to dart off - too much stuff to be done around the house now i'm back
[2009-08-05 21:57:45] <AndrewRT> or just  - we are about to start a new initiative involving schools and are doing CRN checks now
[2009-08-05 21:57:59] <AndrewRT> coudl you give your quick view on this before you go?
[2009-08-05 21:58:00] <mpeel> skenmy: before you go, are you able to prepare the newsletter?
[2009-08-05 21:58:05] <skenmy> I agree with doing it in paralell
[2009-08-05 21:58:07] <skenmy> I am
[2009-08-05 21:58:15] <mpeel> thanks skenmy 
[2009-08-05 21:58:28] <AndrewRT> should we delay the project or risk the charity application?
[2009-08-05 21:58:29] <skenmy> sorry for having to leave
[2009-08-05 21:59:07] <skenmy> of those two options, it's delay the project
[2009-08-05 21:59:09] <mpeel> AndrewRT: I don't think that delaying is an option, on the basis that CC would probably find out about the project anyway during basic background searches.
[2009-08-05 21:59:18] <skenmy> however we need legal advice on the situation
[2009-08-05 21:59:22] <mpeel> especially because funding for that is part of the WMF grant.
[2009-08-05 21:59:59] <mpeel> which bits do we need legal advice on?
[2009-08-05 22:00:01] <mpeel> CRB checks?
[2009-08-05 22:00:02] <Seddon> Iv added the information to the same page as the CC quotes
[2009-08-05 22:00:11] <mpeel> or the child protection policy?
[2009-08-05 22:00:12] <Seddon> mpeel, the whole vulnerable people section
[2009-08-05 22:00:24] <AndrewRT> mpeel - we could change it to only 18+ universities
[2009-08-05 22:00:50] <AndrewRT> that would comply with the grant and open it to U18 later
[2009-08-05 22:01:07] <Seddon> http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-08-05/Agenda/CRB_%26_Child_Protection#Procedures
[2009-08-05 22:01:42] <mpeel> they seriously want _all_ of that?
[2009-08-05 22:02:00] <Seddon> yep, if we are gonnna cater for children under 18
[2009-08-05 22:02:06] <mpeel> for what we're doing, that seems way OTT.
[2009-08-05 22:02:20] <mpeel> for a school, it wouldn't be, but for this little project...
[2009-08-05 22:02:55] <AndrewRT> it sounds a lot, but I'm confident we could do it
[2009-08-05 22:02:59] <AndrewRT> with proper support
[2009-08-05 22:03:50] <mpeel> when do we need to get the CC application submitted by, in lieu of us passing the £5k mark?
[2009-08-05 22:04:00] <AndrewRT> there's no clear deadline as such
[2009-08-05 22:04:13] <Seddon> this financial year
[2009-08-05 22:04:14] <AndrewRT> but we are under an active obligation to apply now that we have passed the £5k
[2009-08-05 22:04:20] <AndrewRT> within a reasonable time
[2009-08-05 22:04:33] <AndrewRT> when I suggested 6 weeks, they seemed ok with that
[2009-08-05 22:04:42] <AndrewRT> i think waiting to the end of the financial year would be too long
[2009-08-05 22:04:48] <mpeel> ok, I think we need to start doing various things in parallel then.
[2009-08-05 22:04:58] <Seddon> AndrewRT, thats just the end point
[2009-08-05 22:05:00] <mpeel> 1) finding out about CRB checks - who we request them from, how much they are
[2009-08-05 22:05:07] <mpeel> 2) starting to draft child protection policies
[2009-08-05 22:05:09] <Seddon> action me to do that
[2009-08-05 22:05:11] <mpeel> 3) finding a lawyer
[2009-08-05 22:05:21] <Seddon> 3 needs to come before 2 in my opinion
[2009-08-05 22:05:40] <mpeel> we can start to draft anyhow
[2009-08-05 22:05:40] <AndrewRT> is it a lawyer we need or a charity advice centre?
[2009-08-05 22:05:54] <mpeel> and then modify those in the case of legal comments
[2009-08-05 22:05:59] <mpeel> AndrewRT: I don't know.
[2009-08-05 22:06:12] <AndrewRT> i was thinking someone like NCVO would be best placed to help (http://www.ncvo-vol.org.uk/)
[2009-08-05 22:06:58] <AndrewRT> >	1) finding out about CRB checks - who we request them from, how much they are
[2009-08-05 22:07:17] <mpeel> NCVO seems like a good place to start.
[2009-08-05 22:07:24] <Seddon> sorry for this flood
[2009-08-05 22:07:31] <Seddon> but more from the CC site
[2009-08-05 22:07:34] <Seddon> Trustees are expected to find out what the relevant law is, how it applies to their organisation, and to comply with it where appropriate. They should also adopt best practice as far as possible – advice on this is available from a number of knowledgeable sources, some of which are listed below. Children are an especially vulnerable group and therefore the Charity Commission is concerned to...
[2009-08-05 22:07:36] <Seddon> ...stress the importance of charities having proper safeguards in place for their protection.
[2009-08-05 22:08:12] <mpeel> Seddon: url?
[2009-08-05 22:08:12] <Seddon> ill get the list of groups they recommend
[2009-08-05 22:08:19] <Seddon> http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/supportingcharities/protection.asp#4
[2009-08-05 22:10:16] <Seddon> the first para seems a little disjointed
[2009-08-05 22:10:18] <Seddon> its say
[2009-08-05 22:10:29] <Seddon> Certain types of charity are set up to assist or care for those who are particularly vulnerable, perhaps because of their age, physical or mental ability or ill health.
[2009-08-05 22:10:47] <Seddon> but it does not say that the below is restricted to those types of charities
[2009-08-05 22:10:49] <Seddon> then says
[2009-08-05 22:10:59] <Seddon> Charity trustees are responsible for ensuring that those benefiting from, or working with, their charity are not harmed in any way through contact with it.
[2009-08-05 22:11:13] <Seddon> id rather not be making assumptions 
[2009-08-05 22:11:19] <mpeel> I'm not sure how far we can get with this here - can we divide up this workload, and work on it during the next 1-2 weeks?
[2009-08-05 22:11:40] <Seddon> ok, how do we want to split this up?
[2009-08-05 22:11:55] <mpeel> my suggestion was above
[2009-08-05 22:12:11] <mpeel> 1) finding out about CRB checks - who we request them from, how much they are - Seddon, I guess
[2009-08-05 22:12:20] <mpeel> 2) starting to draft child protection policies - Seddon/all
[2009-08-05 22:12:48] <mpeel> 3) finding legal advice (lawyer, or NCVO, etc.) - AndrewRT perhaps?
[2009-08-05 22:13:07] <mpeel> is that OK? Is there anything else that needs to be done here?
[2009-08-05 22:13:13] <Seddon> not for now
[2009-08-05 22:13:25] <mpeel> AndrewRT, cfp, zeyi_, what do you think?
[2009-08-05 22:13:31] <Seddon> oh hang on
[2009-08-05 22:13:31] <AndrewRT> sure i can do 3
[2009-08-05 22:13:36] <Seddon> contact foundation
[2009-08-05 22:13:57] <zeyi_> I think it is effective way to do so 
[2009-08-05 22:14:01] <Seddon> see if they still have their offer open of providing us with legal advice
[2009-08-05 22:14:19] <Seddon> we need it tbh
[2009-08-05 22:14:26] <AndrewRT> legal advice is for charity status
[2009-08-05 22:14:33] <AndrewRT> wasn't for child protection policies
[2009-08-05 22:14:47] <Seddon> i suppose
[2009-08-05 22:15:05] <mpeel> It's probably worth sending them an email updating them about the situation
[2009-08-05 22:15:17] <Seddon> indeed
[2009-08-05 22:15:26] <mpeel> I'm not sure that we want to directly ask for help with legal advice for this yet, though - NCVO might be able to provide an alternative.
[2009-08-05 22:15:35] <Seddon> we need to show that we are actually trying to do something about it
[2009-08-05 22:15:36] <cfp> sorry i was called away. i trust you lot to sort this. let me know if there' �
[2009-08-05 22:15:39] <mpeel> (as in, put us in contact with pro bono groups)
[2009-08-05 22:15:43] <cfp> s something particular you need help with
[2009-08-05 22:16:11] <AndrewRT> as per my email, I suggest we ask for advice on the general charity status issue now as well
[2009-08-05 22:16:25] <mpeel> AndrewRT: from whom?
[2009-08-05 22:16:30] <AndrewRT> legal advice
[2009-08-05 22:16:36] <AndrewRT> paid by the WMF
[2009-08-05 22:17:10] <Seddon> agreed
[2009-08-05 22:17:36] <mpeel> that makes sense, given HMRC's responses thus far.
[2009-08-05 22:17:57] <Seddon> i would like to point out that for the CC
[2009-08-05 22:18:17] <Seddon> they consider the legal perspective to be the key thing
[2009-08-05 22:18:33] <mpeel> perhaps AndrewRT could send an email to the WMF updating them on the situation, checking that this option still exists, and if so, requesting it?
[2009-08-05 22:18:40] <AndrewRT> sure
[2009-08-05 22:19:18] <mpeel> My understanding with the CC was that, if they don't think that the objects make the group a charity, they'll work with them until they do.
[2009-08-05 22:19:47] <AndrewRT> cfp - could you put me in touch with a suitable lawyer via your barrister friend?
[2009-08-05 22:20:40] <AndrewRT> mpeel - that only applies if it's a concern about the wording; it wouldn't apply if they think our activities were fundamentally non-charitable
[2009-08-05 22:21:01] <mpeel> AndrewRT: you're probably right.
[2009-08-05 22:21:04] <mpeel> ok, I think we've reached a conclusion here. Shall we move on to 5.3 Section E - Conflicts of interest policy (AndrewRT I presume)?
[2009-08-05 22:21:16] <AndrewRT> can I just confirm the agreed actions:
[2009-08-05 22:21:26] <AndrewRT> finding out about CRB checks - who we request them from, how much they are - Seddon
[2009-08-05 22:21:52] <AndrewRT> finding legal advice (lawyer, or NCVO, etc.) incl talk to WMF - AndrewRT 
[2009-08-05 22:22:01] <AndrewRT> anything else?
[2009-08-05 22:22:15] <mpeel> starting to draft child protection policies - Seddon
[2009-08-05 22:22:28] <AndrewRT> are we doing this now or waiting till advice received?
[2009-08-05 22:22:35] <Seddon> Ill have a shot at that but i dont know how good ill be at that
[2009-08-05 22:22:50] <mpeel> My view is that we should start now, and conclude it when we have advice.
[2009-08-05 22:23:05] <Seddon> i have little to no experience, legal or otherwise, at drafting such procedures or policies
[2009-08-05 22:23:22] <mpeel> presumably standard forms of this sort of policy exist?
[2009-08-05 22:23:43] <Seddon> ill find something :)
[2009-08-05 22:23:53] <mpeel> or we could start something simple based on Tango's draft at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Charity_Commission_application#Child_protection_policy
[2009-08-05 22:24:08] <AndrewRT> ok I'll note those as actions
[2009-08-05 22:24:15] <AndrewRT> in the meantime, delay the application till next meeting?
[2009-08-05 22:24:29] <mpeel> I don't think we have a choice not to delay the application.
[2009-08-05 22:24:53] <AndrewRT> ok
[2009-08-05 22:25:00] <AndrewRT> we always have a choice ;)
[2009-08-05 22:25:15] <AndrewRT> move on to section E?
[2009-08-05 22:25:20] <mpeel> ok
[2009-08-05 22:25:27] <AndrewRT> Section E - Conflicts of interest policy
[2009-08-05 22:25:38] <AndrewRT> I've drafted one at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Conflicts_of_interest_policy
[2009-08-05 22:25:49] <AndrewRT> based on charity ommission guidance and some other things I found on the net
[2009-08-05 22:26:13] <AndrewRT> comments?
[2009-08-05 22:26:23] <AndrewRT> cfp, zeyi_, seddon, mpeel?
[2009-08-05 22:26:41] <mpeel> it needs going through and tidying/reworking in places, which I guess is best done out of meeting.
[2009-08-05 22:26:49] <mpeel> (thanks for starting this, btw)
[2009-08-05 22:26:52] <Seddon> it seems ok but ill need time to go through it with a toothcomb
[2009-08-05 22:26:54] <mpeel> you've marked three points as in need of discussion.
[2009-08-05 22:27:17] <mpeel> did you want to go through those three?
[2009-08-05 22:27:49] <mpeel> AndrewRT?
[2009-08-05 22:28:07] <AndrewRT> sure
[2009-08-05 22:28:50] <AndrewRT> there's a question about what relationship with the Foundation creates a conflict of intrest when discussion, e.g. the Fundraising Agreement
[2009-08-05 22:29:15] <AndrewRT> myu suggest is that being an admin on a WMF project wouldn't, but sitting on a committee would
[2009-08-05 22:29:26] <mpeel> sitting on any committee?
[2009-08-05 22:29:33] <mpeel> or the appropriate one for the agreement?
[2009-08-05 22:29:39] <AndrewRT> no any committee
[2009-08-05 22:29:55] <AndrewRT> e.g. KTC excused himself when we signed the Chapter Agreement
[2009-08-05 22:30:08] <AndrewRT> because he sat on the (I think) election committee
[2009-08-05 22:30:10] <Seddon> As a question to raise here, just WMF committee's?
[2009-08-05 22:30:21] <AndrewRT> yes WMF committees
[2009-08-05 22:30:33] <AndrewRT> not sure about ArbCom
[2009-08-05 22:30:43] <mpeel> I'm never sure, but I think a communication committee exists, the mailing list for which I'm registered on as part of our chapter activities. The phrasing here might mean that I would have to recuse myself from such discussions, which I think is unnecessary.
[2009-08-05 22:31:23] <AndrewRT> the key thing is - is there a conflict of loyalties?
[2009-08-05 22:31:28] <Seddon> yes, things like ARBCOM and MEDCOM were what i had wondered, they are considered to be official in the realms of the project, but are they outside?
[2009-08-05 22:31:50] <Seddon> after all i doubt the foundation would 
[2009-08-05 22:31:54] <AndrewRT> well, ArbCom is strictly speakign appointed by Jimbo
[2009-08-05 22:32:12] <AndrewRT> in his quasi official WMF role
[2009-08-05 22:32:41] <AndrewRT> you could argue they're part of the project community rather than a WMF committee 
[2009-08-05 22:33:15] <AndrewRT> what do you think Seddon?
[2009-08-05 22:34:19] <Seddon> well i cant really comment as im currently on medcom which is techincally an official committee  :p
[2009-08-05 22:34:38] <mpeel> hmm; circularity...
[2009-08-05 22:35:04] <AndrewRT> well, I wanted to provoke people to start thinkign about these things
[2009-08-05 22:35:17] <mpeel> MEDCOM is mediation committee?
[2009-08-05 22:35:23] <mpeel> not medical committee?
[2009-08-05 22:35:27] <Seddon> yes :P
[2009-08-05 22:35:28] <AndrewRT> and to be aware of the kind of situations where a conflict coudl arise
[2009-08-05 22:35:55] <Seddon> well in situations where ARBCOM or whatever are in the press
[2009-08-05 22:36:00] <Seddon> which has happend
[2009-08-05 22:36:14] <Seddon> then they should excuse themselves
[2009-08-05 22:36:27] <Seddon> so i suppose in those instances they should be counted
[2009-08-05 22:36:33] <Seddon> and a COI exists
[2009-08-05 22:37:13] <AndrewRT> ok - it's not a problem, we just need to remember when the Fundraiser Agreement comes up for adoption
[2009-08-05 22:37:20] <AndrewRT> and make sure we do everything by the book
[2009-08-05 22:37:25] <AndrewRT> can I move onto the next item?
[2009-08-05 22:37:34] <mpeel> can I suggest a modification to "Agreements with the Wikimedia Foundation or other chapters where a board member has previously served on one of their committees, except where the member served on the committee as a chapter representative"?
[2009-08-05 22:37:53] <AndrewRT> sure
[2009-08-05 22:38:06] <mpeel> thanks
[2009-08-05 22:38:21] <AndrewRT> does ComCom have chapter reps then?
[2009-08-05 22:38:27] <mpeel> effectively
[2009-08-05 22:38:41] <mpeel> I wouldn't be on it unless I was a chapter rep, at least with my current situation.
[2009-08-05 22:38:55] <AndrewRT> are you on ComCom?
[2009-08-05 22:39:29] <mpeel> I'm on the thing vaguely defined as the Communications Committee, as in I'm subscribed to the mailing list, which seems to be the entirety of ComCom at present.
[2009-08-05 22:39:42] <mpeel> the whole setup is apparently very fuzzy, though.
[2009-08-05 22:39:45] <mpeel> it used to be more formal
[2009-08-05 22:39:47] <mpeel> now it's less so
[2009-08-05 22:39:53] <mpeel> yet still retains the committee name.
[2009-08-05 22:40:09] <mpeel> (I'm subscribed to the mailing list with my WMUK-press-contact hat on)
[2009-08-05 22:40:10] <AndrewRT> you're not isted on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications_committee
[2009-08-05 22:40:53] <mpeel> I'm not sure how up to date that page is.
[2009-08-05 22:41:00] <AndrewRT> i think we need to be careful on that one - if you start to make decisions not connected to WMUK then you might develop a conflict of loyalty
[2009-08-05 22:41:32] <mpeel> no decisions are really made on the mailing list, just discussions
[2009-08-05 22:41:41] <AndrewRT> is it worth you clarifying your role on the committee?
[2009-08-05 22:42:01] <mpeel> I will do, even just so that I have it clear in my head. :)
[2009-08-05 22:42:16] <AndrewRT> cheers
[2009-08-05 22:42:22] <mpeel> ok, let's move on from this point.
[2009-08-05 22:42:34] <mpeel> ... seeing as we're already 20 minutes over. :(
[2009-08-05 22:42:35] <AndrewRT> can i move onto: "it is not considered necessary to have a register of interests or any annual declaration."
[2009-08-05 22:42:48] <AndrewRT> ok that's fine - other points were minor
[2009-08-05 22:43:06] <AndrewRT> as we're not approving at this meeting I suggest we leave and reconsider at our leisure before next meeting
[2009-08-05 22:43:24] <mpeel> can't we just have an empty register of interests?
[2009-08-05 22:43:45] <AndrewRT> we have one item in it atm
[2009-08-05 22:43:47] <mpeel> it may be that we need to have an entry at some point in the future, and having this set down as policy might cause problems then.
[2009-08-05 22:43:55] <mpeel> we do?
[2009-08-05 22:44:11] <AndrewRT> referred to later on - I need to update this
[2009-08-05 22:44:18] <AndrewRT> http://board.wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Register_of_interests
[2009-08-05 22:44:18] <mpeel> ok
[2009-08-05 22:44:29] <mpeel> shall we leave this for off-irc discussion, then?
[2009-08-05 22:44:46] <AndrewRT> ok
[2009-08-05 22:44:58] <mpeel> anything more with the CC application?
[2009-08-05 22:45:15] <mpeel> (I'm assuming that cfp, Seddon and zeyi_ are still around and awake...)
[2009-08-05 22:45:27] <Seddon> yep
[2009-08-05 22:45:34] <zeyi_> yes
[2009-08-05 22:45:51] <mpeel> 6. Newsletter (PW) - we covered this briefly before, is there anything we want to discuss now?
[2009-08-05 22:45:52] <AndrewRT> dont think so
[2009-08-05 22:45:58] <AndrewRT> when's it due?
[2009-08-05 22:46:11] <mpeel> we said that we wanted to get it out at the begining of the month
[2009-08-05 22:46:18] <mpeel> so... about 4 days ago
[2009-08-05 22:46:21] <mpeel> ;)
[2009-08-05 22:46:28] <AndrewRT> last one went out 15 July
[2009-08-05 22:46:41] <AndrewRT> so 15-7 = 8 August
[2009-08-05 22:46:50] <AndrewRT> Saturday
[2009-08-05 22:46:56] <AndrewRT> is that do-able?
[2009-08-05 22:46:56] <mpeel> I suggest that we aim for the 14th August this month
[2009-08-05 22:47:00] <mpeel> given the newsletter's current state
[2009-08-05 22:47:07] <AndrewRT> ok
[2009-08-05 22:47:17] <AndrewRT> do we need to assign sections tonite then?
[2009-08-05 22:47:52] <mpeel> unless anyone wants to volunteer for some sections, I don't think we do
[2009-08-05 22:48:05] <mpeel> (I assume skenmy can organize the newsletter sections by email)
[2009-08-05 22:48:27] <AndrewRT> shall we get each initiative person to do a section?
[2009-08-05 22:48:49] <AndrewRT> launching their initiative?
[2009-08-05 22:48:53] <mpeel> makes sense
[2009-08-05 22:49:04] <AndrewRT> Action PW, MP, SV then!
[2009-08-05 22:49:13] <AndrewRT> I can do one on charity status update if you want
[2009-08-05 22:49:52] <AndrewRT> plus WLA prizes as already agreed
[2009-08-05 22:50:08] <AndrewRT> i think that will do for that
[2009-08-05 22:51:39] <mpeel> ok, let's move on to 7. AOB
[2009-08-05 22:51:43] <mpeel> anyone?
[2009-08-05 22:51:52] <AndrewRT> none from me
[2009-08-05 22:51:55] <mpeel> (ping cfp, Seddon, zeyi_)
[2009-08-05 22:52:20] <Seddon> ill write up a section on the OKCON
[2009-08-05 22:52:34] <AndrewRT> for the newsletter seddon?
[2009-08-05 22:52:57] <Seddon> yes
[2009-08-05 22:53:06] <AndrewRT> great thanks
[2009-08-05 22:53:43] <mpeel> ok, next meeting. 11 or 18 August?
[2009-08-05 22:54:06] <AndrewRT> i would like 18th
[2009-08-05 22:54:18] <Seddon> 18th
[2009-08-05 22:54:20] <mpeel> do we need to meet before then for anything?
[2009-08-05 22:54:23] <mpeel> e.g. CC application?
[2009-08-05 22:54:26] <AndrewRT> it's difficult to attend meetings, write up mins, chase actions and also do stuff all in a week
[2009-08-05 22:54:44] <AndrewRT> cfp - when did we get the money through?
[2009-08-05 22:54:56] <mpeel> ok, 18th August it is. 8.30-10.30pm BST.
[2009-08-05 22:55:08] <AndrewRT> cheers
[2009-08-05 22:55:16] <mpeel> Can we fit both CC application and initiatives in, do you think?
[2009-08-05 22:55:24] <AndrewRT> are we still doing alternate initiatives and non?
[2009-08-05 22:55:44] <mpeel> ideally, yes, I guess - although CC application is a priority...
[2009-08-05 22:56:14] <AndrewRT> there's a lot of work to do on the CC application before the board needs to discuss again
[2009-08-05 22:56:31] <AndrewRT> could we do 18th - inits mtg, 1st Sep, regular meeting?
[2009-08-05 22:56:50] <mpeel> brief discussion of CC application at the next meeting, then, but focusing on initiatives mostl?
[2009-08-05 22:57:00] <zeyi_> we have to catch the deadline of initiative
[2009-08-05 22:57:17] <zeyi_> so, perhaps another meeting in this month
[2009-08-05 22:57:19] <AndrewRT> I'm fine with that - aim to send CC application after 1st Sep?
[2009-08-05 22:57:33] <mpeel> I guess so. :(
[2009-08-05 22:57:41] <AndrewRT> zeyi - can't we do that in a fortnight's time?
[2009-08-05 22:57:43] <Seddon> yer
[2009-08-05 22:58:09] <cfp> sorry was afk. got the money through yesterday andrew
[2009-08-05 22:58:24] <zeyi_> I assume we can done some by 18th, hope we can have plan or probably we need another meeting by the end of August
[2009-08-05 22:58:38] <AndrewRT> thansk cfp - that means if we send 1st Sep it'll be 4 weeks after receipt which is within the 6 weeks
[2009-08-05 22:59:00] <zeyi_> as we have a deadline. 
[2009-08-05 22:59:21] <mpeel> I'll probably be back here (in Poland) around the 1st Sept, so may or may not be able to make that meeting, as an advanced warning.
[2009-08-05 22:59:59] <mpeel> zeyi_: we'll focus on initiatives on the 18th, then can add another meeting in if necessary.
[2009-08-05 23:00:23] <mpeel> ok, I think that brings us to the end of this meeting. Thanks all for coming.
[2009-08-05 23:00:28] <AndrewRT> thanks mpeel
[2009-08-05 23:00:30] <AndrewRT> thanks all
[2009-08-05 23:00:40] <zeyi_> thanks all

#wikimedia-uk

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[2009-08-05 20:37:04] =-= Topic for #Wikimedia-UK is ``Discussion of Wikimedia UK - http://uk.wikimedia.org | Board meetings in #wikimedia-uk-board | The next board meeting is on Wednesday 5 August at 8.30pm BST | This channel is logged during WMUK board meetings''
[2009-08-05 20:37:04] =-= Topic for #Wikimedia-UK was set by mpeel on 02 August 2009 05:53:09
[2009-08-05 20:37:05] === #wikimedia-uk http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/
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[2009-08-05 20:39:45] <mpeel> board meeting is starting now-ish in #wikimedia-uk-board
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[2009-08-05 21:01:40] <mpeel> does anyone have any views on using wikipedia.org.uk as a portal, similar to wikimedia.de?
[2009-08-05 21:03:37] * mpeel starts poking people - GDonato, issyl0, kibble, Majorly, randmontoya, Reedy, roberthl , seanw 
[2009-08-05 21:03:49] <seanw> sup
[2009-08-05 21:04:00] <seanw> Do we own the domain?
[2009-08-05 21:04:17] * kibble hides
[2009-08-05 21:04:17] <mpeel> no, but we know the person that does, and they're apparently willing to transfer it to us.
[2009-08-05 21:04:41] <kibble> I'm not in the UK, so I can't comment on the legal risks
[2009-08-05 21:04:53] <kibble> but I like the idea from an American perspective :-)
[2009-08-05 21:05:01] <seanw> Do we have sufficient things to put on it like wikimedia.de ?
[2009-08-05 21:05:11] <seanw> If we don't, it will look sparse.
[2009-08-05 21:05:24] <kibble> personally, I'd prefer it be a portal. I coulda sworn there was one before with things like "English", "Welsh", "Scots, etc. all linked
[2009-08-05 21:06:05] <mpeel> there's always plenty of standard material that can be put on it.
[2009-08-05 21:11:20] <kibble> UK = United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
[2009-08-05 21:11:24] <kibble> don't forget the Nor-Irelanders!
[2009-08-05 21:11:43] <AndrewRT> well yes
[2009-08-05 21:11:59] <AndrewRT> but I think the ISO code GB strictly speaking includes th whole of the UK
[2009-08-05 21:12:10] <AndrewRT> very confusing!
[2009-08-05 21:12:22] <kibble> yeah, it's crazy
[2009-08-05 21:12:30] <kibble> and I don't understand the whole drama about Wikimedia Ukraine
[2009-08-05 21:12:46] <AndrewRT> nothing we can't sort out, I'm sure
[2009-08-05 21:12:47] <mpeel> Welcome to the UK ... erm GB ... erm England ... erm "here".
[2009-08-05 21:13:08] <kibble> hehe
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[2009-08-05 21:16:38] <AndrewRT> kibble - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-2:GB for ref
[2009-08-05 21:16:41] <AndrewRT> includes NI
[2009-08-05 21:17:00] <kibble> I believe you, I'm just saying why it's confusing
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