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[2009-10-20 20:35:38] =-= Topic for #wikimedia-uk-board is ``The next Wikimedia UK board meeting will be here on Tuesday 20 October at 8.30pm BST | Agenda at | Please come and listen but only Board members will be voiced | Please share your comments in #Wikimedia-UK''
[2009-10-20 20:35:38] =-= Topic for #wikimedia-uk-board was set by mpeel on 20 October 2009 20:31:44
[2009-10-20 20:35:40] === #wikimedia-uk-board
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[2009-10-20 21:08:53] -->| Tango42 (n=chatzill@wikimedia/Tango) has joined #wikimedia-uk-board
[2009-10-20 21:15:21] * Seddon waves to Tango42
[2009-10-20 21:15:34] * Tango42 waves back
[2009-10-20 21:16:21] <Seddon> skype is so much more efficient
[2009-10-20 21:17:19] <mpeel> no technical problems with skype so far.
[2009-10-20 21:17:22] <Seddon> in 35 minutes we have managed to get through all of the actions and almost all of the reports
[2009-10-20 21:17:50] <mpeel> I wonder whether it would be worth switching to it for the whole meeting - or does that present problems for anyone that listens to this meeting?
[2009-10-20 21:18:35] <skenmy> glad to hear it!
[2009-10-20 21:18:41] <skenmy> sorry I can't be there :)
[2009-10-20 21:23:23] <Seddon> it certainly is good to get through all the unecessary faff that is very slow on irc
[2009-10-20 22:05:01] <AndrewRT> In the room...
[2009-10-20 22:05:13] <AndrewRT> everyone here?
[2009-10-20 22:05:15] <skenmy> hello!
[2009-10-20 22:05:18] <steve__> yes
[2009-10-20 22:05:18] <mpeel> hi
[2009-10-20 22:05:37] <AndrewRT> how u doing paul?
[2009-10-20 22:05:38] <mpeel> Andrew: I hope you managed to take lots of notes during that?
[2009-10-20 22:05:45] <skenmy> im good :)
[2009-10-20 22:05:49] <AndrewRT> well, a list of decision points
[2009-10-20 22:05:57] <AndrewRT> is that enough?
[2009-10-20 22:06:05] <mpeel> probably, yes
[2009-10-20 22:06:10] <mpeel> Tango42 may disagree. :)
[2009-10-20 22:06:15] <AndrewRT> hehe
[2009-10-20 22:06:15] <mpeel> ok, running quickly through the agenda
[2009-10-20 22:06:18] <mpeel> 1. Apologies for Absence
[2009-10-20 22:06:18] <AndrewRT> surely not ;)
[2009-10-20 22:06:23] <AndrewRT> zeyi
[2009-10-20 22:06:26] <mpeel> Zeyi apologized for not being able to make the meeting
[2009-10-20 22:06:37] <mpeel> skenmy wasn't able to make the skype meeting for technical reasons
[2009-10-20 22:06:38] [INFO] You are no longer marked as away.
[2009-10-20 22:06:42] <mpeel> 2. Minutes of Meeting dated 2009-09-29 and Meeting dated 2009-10-11 - approval & actions
[2009-10-20 22:06:50] <skenmy> damn vodafone
[2009-10-20 22:06:52] <mpeel> the minutes are at:
[2009-10-20 22:06:53] <mpeel>
[2009-10-20 22:06:59] <mpeel> and
[2009-10-20 22:07:00] <mpeel>
[2009-10-20 22:07:07] <AndrewRT> everyone was happy on skype
[2009-10-20 22:07:07] <mpeel> is everyone happy with the minutes?
[2009-10-20 22:07:13] <AndrewRT> skenmy - you ok?
[2009-10-20 22:07:19] <skenmy> no issues here
[2009-10-20 22:07:38] <mpeel> AndrewRT: were there any decisions that need making on the action items?
[2009-10-20 22:07:45] <AndrewRT> on did you manage to speak to your school?
[2009-10-20 22:07:50] <AndrewRT> skenmy?
[2009-10-20 22:08:04] <AndrewRT> mpeel - not that I noted just approval
[2009-10-20 22:08:22] <mpeel> thanks AndrewRT 
[2009-10-20 22:08:22] <skenmy> No. The email will be sent on my return.
[2009-10-20 22:08:26] <AndrewRT> cheers
[2009-10-20 22:08:45] <mpeel> 3. Matters arising - was skipped over, as this was essentially done during the previous section.
[2009-10-20 22:08:51] <mpeel> 4. Reports
[2009-10-20 22:08:54] <mpeel> these are at:
[2009-10-20 22:09:02] <mpeel> ... well. they're at the links on the wiki agenda. :)
[2009-10-20 22:09:07] <AndrewRT>
[2009-10-20 22:09:08] <mpeel> see the links on
[2009-10-20 22:09:20] <AndrewRT> action me to print off the charitycommission receipt
[2009-10-20 22:09:35] <AndrewRT>
[2009-10-20 22:09:41] <mpeel> skenmy: any questions on AndrewRT's report?
[2009-10-20 22:10:01] <skenmy> none
[2009-10-20 22:10:06] <mpeel> Treasurer's report was at
[2009-10-20 22:10:06] <AndrewRT> Tres Rep: Four members applications received
[2009-10-20 22:10:09] <skenmy> on any of the reports, fwiw :)
[2009-10-20 22:10:13] <mpeel> thanks skenmy 
[2009-10-20 22:10:24] <AndrewRT> cfp - could you pm the names to skenmy
[2009-10-20 22:10:31] <cfp> yes ok
[2009-10-20 22:10:39] <AndrewRT> ae you ok to approve skenmy?
[2009-10-20 22:10:39] <skenmy> thanks
[2009-10-20 22:10:53] <skenmy> any objections in the meeting?
[2009-10-20 22:10:57] <AndrewRT> none to any
[2009-10-20 22:10:58] <mpeel> nope
[2009-10-20 22:11:07] <skenmy> I'm happy to go with you guys on this :)
[2009-10-20 22:11:16] <AndrewRT> approve then
[2009-10-20 22:11:21] <AndrewRT> _approved_
[2009-10-20 22:11:24] <mpeel> one doesn't need to be pending the cheque clearing, as they provided cash, which I converted to a cheque. Obviously, I personally vouch for that cheque clearing.
[2009-10-20 22:11:25] <skenmy> yes
[2009-10-20 22:11:29] <cfp> good good. i'll get them processed
[2009-10-20 22:11:45] <cfp> yup i saw that, thanks mike
[2009-10-20 22:11:46] <mpeel> (I wrote on the appropriate application form which one that applied to)
[2009-10-20 22:12:05] <mpeel> I'd also like to thank the donor who gave £10 cash to the chapter at the wikimeet
[2009-10-20 22:12:12] <mpeel> (I don't know whether they want to be named or not, so won't name them)
[2009-10-20 22:12:35] <AndrewRT> have u got their email address?
[2009-10-20 22:12:42] <mpeel> yes
[2009-10-20 22:12:48] <mpeel> I thanked them personally at the meeting, though... :)
[2009-10-20 22:12:56] <AndrewRT> ok sure
[2009-10-20 22:13:04] <mpeel> do we want to go through the rest of the reports, or shall we move on to the Annual Wikimedia Fundraiser?
[2009-10-20 22:13:22] <AndrewRT> no i think note them all and move to Fundraiser
[2009-10-20 22:13:34] <AndrewRT> for the benefit of the meeting shall i summarise?
[2009-10-20 22:13:43] <mpeel> please AndrewRT 
[2009-10-20 22:13:53] <AndrewRT> MP and me have had an IRC meeting with Rand
[2009-10-20 22:13:53] <mpeel> (I'll be back in a few mins... sorry)
[2009-10-20 22:14:06] <AndrewRT> he advised us to put our proposal on the internal wiki
[2009-10-20 22:14:10] <AndrewRT> which we have at 
[2009-10-20 22:14:24] <AndrewRT>
[2009-10-20 22:14:38] <AndrewRT> Rand and Eric have said they will look at this week
[2009-10-20 22:14:47] <AndrewRT> I have asked the board to approe the following:
[2009-10-20 22:14:55] <AndrewRT> MPa nd me to continue discussions with Rand
[2009-10-20 22:15:13] <AndrewRT> once we reach agreement, email the details round the board for approval
[2009-10-20 22:15:30] <skenmy> No objections here
[2009-10-20 22:15:32] <AndrewRT> if there are no objections within 48 hours or if the proposal is contraversial
[2009-10-20 22:15:38] <mpeel> (I'm back)
[2009-10-20 22:15:39] <AndrewRT> MP and me then authorised to sign
[2009-10-20 22:15:54] <AndrewRT> otherwise, we'll have an emeragency IRCmeeting (probably next Friday ish)
[2009-10-20 22:16:04] <AndrewRT> is that summary ok?
[2009-10-20 22:16:20] <mpeel> one point
[2009-10-20 22:16:28] <mpeel> there were two possibilities in the agreement
[2009-10-20 22:16:33] <mpeel> a preferred option, and a fallback option
[2009-10-20 22:17:13] <mpeel> if we go with either of those, then we go via the "no objections" route
[2009-10-20 22:17:15] <AndrewRT> are you happy with that approach skenmy?
[2009-10-20 22:17:20] <skenmy> I am.
[2009-10-20 22:17:21] <mpeel> if the fallback option isn't liked, then we have the emergency meeting.
[2009-10-20 22:17:31] <AndrewRT> thanks, that that bit agreed
[2009-10-20 22:17:37] <AndrewRT> second point - membership check box
[2009-10-20 22:17:42] <AndrewRT> we discussed three options
[2009-10-20 22:17:50] <AndrewRT> 1) checkboc to take membership fee out of donation
[2009-10-20 22:18:03] <AndrewRT> broadly along the lines of
[2009-10-20 22:18:24] <AndrewRT> 2) Prominent advert on the donation page for people to join at the same time
[2009-10-20 22:18:37] <AndrewRT> if they click, they're taken to second page to pay again for their subs
[2009-10-20 22:18:52] <AndrewRT> 3) No membership link, but invite them to join when acknowedging their donation
[2009-10-20 22:19:11] <AndrewRT> the feeling was (1) would result in potentially >1,000 inactive members
[2009-10-20 22:19:25] <AndrewRT> so the decision was to go for (2)
[2009-10-20 22:19:32] <AndrewRT> are you happy with that skenmy?
[2009-10-20 22:19:46] <skenmy> I concur - 1 would also reduce the amount of donations.
[2009-10-20 22:19:52] <skenmy> 2 is my prefr
[2009-10-20 22:19:53] <mpeel> (1) there were also concerns about how the membership fee is split from the donation
[2009-10-20 22:20:34] <mpeel> so, (2) it is.
[2009-10-20 22:20:38] <AndrewRT> as mpeel said we will talk to Rand about how we intend to treat that
[2009-10-20 22:20:56] <AndrewRT> then we discussed how we woudl use the money
[2009-10-20 22:21:05] <mpeel> the concerns are still there for (2), but to a much lesser extent, so I don't think there will be a problem there.
[2009-10-20 22:21:11] <AndrewRT> and how this would be advertised to potential donors
[2009-10-20 22:21:29] <AndrewRT>
[2009-10-20 22:21:56] <AndrewRT> It was agreed we would continue to draft this on wiki
[2009-10-20 22:22:28] <AndrewRT> i don't think we decided how we would finalise the text?
[2009-10-20 22:22:44] <mpeel> I think I cut off the discussion before we decided that.
[2009-10-20 22:23:12] <cfp> send an email round a reasonable time before the deadline?
[2009-10-20 22:23:15] <mpeel> it's worth noting that we have 4 weeks from the start of the fundraiser to decide the exact division of the money.
[2009-10-20 22:23:35] <AndrewRT> except we need to agree the text before the website goes live
[2009-10-20 22:23:44] <AndrewRT> who shoudl run with this?
[2009-10-20 22:24:14] <mpeel> An email to both the board, and the wikimediauk-l mailing list, a reasonable time before the 1st november would work well.
[2009-10-20 22:24:21] <AndrewRT> from whom though?
[2009-10-20 22:24:28] <Seddon> I would volunteer but i have 10 deadlines due all on the 30th October
[2009-10-20 22:24:29] <mpeel> AndrewRT: you've been doing an excellent job so far on the page, would you be willing to continue that?
[2009-10-20 22:24:36] <AndrewRT> yeah i suppose so
[2009-10-20 22:24:41] <mpeel> with everyone's assistance, of course
[2009-10-20 22:25:04] <AndrewRT> ok, I'll send an email round and we can approve based on 24hrs to object
[2009-10-20 22:25:26] <AndrewRT> everyone happy with that?
[2009-10-20 22:25:32] <mpeel> yup
[2009-10-20 22:25:40] <AndrewRT> the other things we talked about:
[2009-10-20 22:25:49] <AndrewRT> - need to agree wording on WMF site
[2009-10-20 22:25:57] <AndrewRT> - wording on our site
[2009-10-20 22:26:19] <AndrewRT> - need to talk to the WMF re the "40%" prominence split on the donation page
[2009-10-20 22:26:58] <AndrewRT> they kind of link to the other text - shall i pick up those with Tango42?
[2009-10-20 22:27:18] <AndrewRT> and mpeel can you carry on with the 40% discussions? or shall we add to our discussions with Rand?
[2009-10-20 22:27:32] <mpeel> AndrewRT: I think that should be added to our discussions with Rand at the appropriate time
[2009-10-20 22:27:39] <mpeel> probably once the agreement's been signed
[2009-10-20 22:27:46] <mpeel> unless it comes up earlier
[2009-10-20 22:27:48] <AndrewRT> ok sure, mpeel and I shall take that on then
[2009-10-20 22:28:00] <AndrewRT> I think that was everything on the Fundraising Agreement
[2009-10-20 22:28:07] <AndrewRT> was there anything else?
[2009-10-20 22:28:18] <skenmy> nothing from me
[2009-10-20 22:28:24] <mpeel> I can't think of anything
[2009-10-20 22:28:27] <AndrewRT> newsletter then?
[2009-10-20 22:28:30] <mpeel> 6. Newsletter (PW)
[2009-10-20 22:28:41] <mpeel> the October one has been started at
[2009-10-20 22:28:48] <mpeel> ... we're starting to run out of October, though.
[2009-10-20 22:29:00] <mpeel> so we should write the rest of the sections (currently there's only press coverage)
[2009-10-20 22:29:09] <skenmy> and I have a grand total of 1 day left to do anything :P
[2009-10-20 22:29:13] <AndrewRT> i suggest a section on the pending fundraiser
[2009-10-20 22:29:38] <AndrewRT> mpeel can you and/or seddon do something on the exciting disussions you're having with various people?
[2009-10-20 22:29:55] <Seddon> yes :)
[2009-10-20 22:30:05] <AndrewRT> Tango42 - dont suppose you fancy doing a few sentences on the Fundraiser?
[2009-10-20 22:30:31] <mpeel> AndrewRT: I can put something together on that, in cooperation with Seddon.
[2009-10-20 22:31:13] <AndrewRT> we could do with perhaps one more section
[2009-10-20 22:31:42] <AndrewRT> any ideas?
[2009-10-20 22:32:14] <mpeel> I asked Gordon if he would be willing to write something about the Wiki Wednesday meeting
[2009-10-20 22:32:20] <AndrewRT> how about our new meeting format and our in person meeting?
[2009-10-20 22:32:41] <mpeel> he's just replied saying cc'ing someone else that may have some notes, so this may lead somewhere.
[2009-10-20 22:32:55] <AndrewRT> how about steve__ fancy writing up about our in person meeting?
[2009-10-20 22:33:12] <AndrewRT> plus our Skype-ing?
[2009-10-20 22:33:34] <steve__> could do I suppose
[2009-10-20 22:33:38] <AndrewRT> cheers!
[2009-10-20 22:33:52] <AndrewRT> i think that's everythign done then - aim to get out this weekend?
[2009-10-20 22:34:11] <mpeel> I should be able to distribute it on-wiki on sat or sun
[2009-10-20 22:34:16] <AndrewRT> cheers
[2009-10-20 22:34:27] <skenmy> I am AFK entirely for a week from Saturday
[2009-10-20 22:34:28] <mpeel> so having a deadline of end of the 24th october at the latest would be good
[2009-10-20 22:34:55] <mpeel> skenmy: so when would be best for you to send it to members?
[2009-10-20 22:35:04] <skenmy> friday evening
[2009-10-20 22:35:14] <skenmy> I am totally afk, no chance of internet access at all
[2009-10-20 22:35:39] <skenmy> (doing the warwickshire ring on a barge :P)
[2009-10-20 22:35:40] <mpeel> ok, so deadline of 5pm on the 23rd october?
[2009-10-20 22:35:56] <AndrewRT> ok sure
[2009-10-20 22:36:03] <skenmy> sure thing
[2009-10-20 22:36:10] <skenmy> I will try and get things copyedited if people want me to
[2009-10-20 22:36:22] <mpeel> I've just been sent a link to about the Wiki Wednesday
[2009-10-20 22:36:23] <skenmy> but i'm just everywhere at the moment
[2009-10-20 22:36:46] <mpeel> we can use extracts from that for the newsletter, and link to the blog post for full info.
[2009-10-20 22:36:54] <AndrewRT> gd idea
[2009-10-20 22:37:08] <mpeel> ok. 7. AOB?
[2009-10-20 22:37:25] <AndrewRT> i have two items I'm afraid
[2009-10-20 22:37:31] <mpeel> go for it AndrewRT 
[2009-10-20 22:37:37] <AndrewRT> I've mentioned them before
[2009-10-20 22:37:42] <AndrewRT> #1: Usability Study
[2009-10-20 22:38:01] <AndrewRT> I'd like to go back to them and report on our discussions
[2009-10-20 22:38:22] <AndrewRT> about allocating them the £10,000 we talked about
[2009-10-20 22:38:27] <AndrewRT> what should I tell them?
[2009-10-20 22:39:05] <mpeel> good question
[2009-10-20 22:39:26] <AndrewRT> and when could we make a firm decision about supporting them
[2009-10-20 22:39:31] <skenmy> would it not be worth waiting to see what level of donations we get first?
[2009-10-20 22:39:40] <cfp> yeah i agree with skenmy
[2009-10-20 22:39:41] <skenmy> we agree in principle to support them financially
[2009-10-20 22:39:43] <AndrewRT> yes - presumably after the fundraiser happens
[2009-10-20 22:40:00] <AndrewRT> ok, so keen on the idea, details to wait until when
[2009-10-20 22:40:06] <AndrewRT> February?
[2009-10-20 22:40:07] <skenmy> however exact figures are to be delayed until we have our accounts settled
[2009-10-20 22:40:39] <AndrewRT> well, we'll have a goo idea of the ball park figures we're going to raise by the end of November
[2009-10-20 22:40:40] <skenmy> sounds good to me
[2009-10-20 22:41:12] <AndrewRT> ok thanks I'll tell them that
[2009-10-20 22:41:21] <AndrewRT> my second item was a similar quetsion
[2009-10-20 22:41:27] <AndrewRT> regarding the Celtic league
[2009-10-20 22:41:35] <AndrewRT> we didnt' discuss this in Skype
[2009-10-20 22:41:49] <AndrewRT> but it was on
[2009-10-20 22:42:05] <AndrewRT> "Up to £5,000 will support Wikipedia projects centred on the UK, such as the Celtic Wikipedias project"
[2009-10-20 22:42:34] <AndrewRT> I've spoken offline to some people about this - my idea was to have some kind of bounty programme in conjunction with Wikipedia Academies
[2009-10-20 22:42:45] <AndrewRT> all subject of course to teh amount we raise
[2009-10-20 22:43:02] <AndrewRT> again - I said I'd report back after today's meeting
[2009-10-20 22:43:14] <AndrewRT> what do people think in principle?
[2009-10-20 22:43:40] <mpeel> In principle, we should be doing this sort of activity, IMO
[2009-10-20 22:43:44] <mpeel> I'm less sure about the amount of money
[2009-10-20 22:43:53] <steve__> anything educational gets my support
[2009-10-20 22:44:09] <mpeel> but it depends on the balance between the 'bounty programme' and the wikipedia academies
[2009-10-20 22:44:24] <AndrewRT> shall i write something up at Initiatives/Proposals
[2009-10-20 22:44:36] <mpeel> I do think that it would be good to start small with any bounty programme, and then increase the scope if it works well to start with.
[2009-10-20 22:44:39] <AndrewRT>
[2009-10-20 22:44:43] <mpeel> AndrewRT: that's a good way forward.
[2009-10-20 22:45:40] <AndrewRT> bearing in mind we approached them, we need to be clear about what we are offering and what the conditions are
[2009-10-20 22:45:52] <AndrewRT> or what we might offer
[2009-10-20 22:46:17] <AndrewRT> seddon, skenmy, cfp any views?
[2009-10-20 22:46:35] <skenmy> I support in principle
[2009-10-20 22:46:42] <skenmy> we need to hash the details out :)
[2009-10-20 22:47:12] <AndrewRT> ok - I'll say that then - board are happy in principle, lets talk and get some details together
[2009-10-20 22:47:24] <AndrewRT> thanks, that's my two items
[2009-10-20 22:48:03] <mpeel> thanks AndrewRT 
[2009-10-20 22:48:12] <mpeel> Seddon: did you want to mention your AOB point from the skype conversation
[2009-10-20 22:48:13] <mpeel> ?
[2009-10-20 22:48:43] <Seddon> just that im working with the icommons legal person in getting pro bono assistance for the charity commission thing
[2009-10-20 22:49:05] <mpeel> thanks seddon - hope that leads somewhere.
[2009-10-20 22:49:12] <mpeel> Does anyone else have any AOB?
[2009-10-20 22:49:25] <skenmy> none!
[2009-10-20 22:49:32] <mpeel> 8. Date & content of next meeting. 3 November, 8.30pm, on Initiatives?
[2009-10-20 22:49:38] <cfp> none here
[2009-10-20 22:49:46] <AndrewRT> sounds good
[2009-10-20 22:50:05] <mpeel> Would it be worth switching to using Skype throughout this meeting, or is having this IRC discussion afterwards useful?
[2009-10-20 22:50:53] <AndrewRT> we need it for teh record and to keep being participative
[2009-10-20 22:51:21] <mpeel> There are alternative ways of doing the record - e.g. using EtherPad to record decisions as we went.
[2009-10-20 22:51:33] <mpeel> (EtherPad is a real-time collaborative writing website)
[2009-10-20 22:51:56] <mpeel> The main thing is being participative, I guess.
[2009-10-20 22:52:26] <mpeel> shall we discuss this on the mailing list, and wrap up here?
[2009-10-20 22:53:00] <mpeel> cfp, Seddon, skenmy, steve__, AndrewRT?
[2009-10-20 22:53:06] <AndrewRT> sure
[2009-10-20 22:53:11] <Seddon> yep
[2009-10-20 22:53:12] <cfp> fine
[2009-10-20 22:53:14] <skenmy> sure :)
[2009-10-20 22:53:28] <mpeel> ok, thanks all for coming. <end>
[2009-10-20 22:53:39] <AndrewRT> cheers mpeel
[2009-10-20 22:53:50] [QUIT] Disconnected from irc:// (irc:// [[Reconnect][Reconnect to][reconnect]]


[2009-10-20 20:40:39] -->| YOU (AndrewRT) have joined #Wikimedia-UK
[2009-10-20 20:40:39] =-= Topic for #Wikimedia-UK is ``Discussion of Wikimedia UK - | Bot missing? or wait | Next Board meeting on 20 October at 8.30pm BST in #wikimedia-uk-board  | This channel is logged during WMUK board meetings''
[2009-10-20 20:40:39] =-= Topic for #Wikimedia-UK was set by mpeel on 20 October 2009 20:31:19
[2009-10-20 20:40:40] === #wikimedia-uk
[2009-10-20 20:40:52] <AndrewRT> First part of the board meeting just about to begin on Skype
[2009-10-20 20:41:04] <AndrewRT> we'll be back here at 9:30 on irc
[2009-10-20 20:49:04] |<-- KTC has left ("Leaving")
[2009-10-20 21:08:45] -->| Tango42 (n=chatzill@wikimedia/Tango) has joined #Wikimedia-UK
[2009-10-20 21:21:18] -->| Majorly_ (n=chatzill@wikimedia/Majorly) has joined #Wikimedia-UK
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[2009-10-20 21:31:36] <mpeel> We're running marginally late... 10 minutes?
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[2009-10-20 21:43:58] <mpeel> sorry; we'll be longer. A very active discussion is going on at the moment about fundraising...
[2009-10-20 21:45:24] <roberthl> this voice idea makes sense if the meetings are going quicker, would be nice to investigate recording or live streaming it though
[2009-10-20 21:51:23] <Seddon> i will look into it
[2009-10-20 21:51:30] <Seddon> this is very much an experiment
[2009-10-20 21:52:04] <skenmy> live streaming is very very possible
[2009-10-20 21:52:10] <skenmy> with very little issue
[2009-10-20 21:53:26] <mpeel> almost there...
[2009-10-20 22:01:13] <mpeel> ... or not ... :(
[2009-10-20 22:04:57] <mpeel> ok, the skype segment has ended
[2009-10-20 22:05:13] <mpeel> apologies for that taking so long; there were a lot of good discussions going on.
[2009-10-20 22:05:22] <AndrewRT> about to start the IRC meeting now
[2009-10-20 22:13:37] <mpeel> If anyone has any questions, please shout them out - I realise that we're going fairly quickly through this...
[2009-10-20 22:15:07] <Tango42> oh, hang on! I had a question and completely forgot to bring it up at the appropriate time
[2009-10-20 22:15:42] <Tango42> The volunteers report mentioned discussion about a problem with a Wikipedia article - isn't our policy to just point them in the direction of OTRS?
[2009-10-20 22:15:58] <mpeel> that's a question for skenmy 
[2009-10-20 22:16:37] <AndrewRT> we do have a role to support the projects and assisting people who want to contibute is in that remit
[2009-10-20 22:16:51] <skenmy> The user in question is of the opinion that we are to delete the article based on their word alone. I'm trying to educate the user and advise, rather than fob them off :)
[2009-10-20 22:16:58] <AndrewRT> as long as we make it clear these aren't our websites and we have no responsibility for them
[2009-10-20 22:17:26] <skenmy> indeed
[2009-10-20 22:17:26] <Tango42> I think pointing people towards OTRS is better than handling it ourselves - it makes it much clear that we aren't responsible
[2009-10-20 22:17:54] <skenmy> Tango42, i'm acting in a "not an official view of the board" capacity - it's not in my nature to fob people off :P
[2009-10-20 22:18:31] <Tango42> educating and advising is one thing, but it is a small step from there to actually editing the article for them and then you potentially get the chapter sued
[2009-10-20 22:19:25] <Tango42> There is no such thing as "in an unofficial capacity" - you are a member of the chapter board and were contacted in that capacity. No matter what you say to the contrary, it will be assumed you are acting in that capacity
[2009-10-20 22:20:13] <Tango42> We might be able to convince a judge otherwise, but it would take significantly more effort than just saying "We are independent of Wikipedia and the WMF, it has nothing at all to do with us."
[2009-10-20 22:20:16] <AndrewRT> Tango42 is absolutely right - we need to take particular care when responding and try not to cross the line!
[2009-10-20 22:20:27] <Tango42> (and effort=money when it comes to lawyers)
[2009-10-20 22:20:51] <Tango42> Indeed, that's why I think it is better to not even walk towards the line
[2009-10-20 22:24:02] <AndrewRT> ...STEP AWAY FROM THE LINE.... ;)
[2009-10-20 22:25:58] <Tango42> I'm reminded of the London Underground...
[2009-10-20 22:28:32] <Tango42> mpeel: The 40% thing should be a condition of us signing
[2009-10-20 22:28:55] <Tango42> There is really no point us agreeing to all their conditions if all we get in return is a tiny box in the corner of their donation page
[2009-10-20 22:29:36] <mpeel> Tango42: yes, the 40% thing is a condition of us signing. Whether we agree that the WMF has implemented that properly is something to discuss once the implementation is available to view.
[2009-10-20 22:29:54] <mpeel> so we sign with the 40% agreement as stands
[2009-10-20 22:30:05] <mpeel> and then kick up at the earliest opportunity if we feel that we're not getting that.
[2009-10-20 22:30:26] <AndrewRT> 40% thing is written into the agreement
[2009-10-20 22:30:44] <Tango42> But the WMF clearly interprets that clause as being met by their proposed wireframes. We need to make it clear that we disagree with that interpretation before we sign or it is too late
[2009-10-20 22:30:52] * mpeel is aware that rand's in the room. ;-)
[2009-10-20 22:30:55] <AndrewRT> indeed we'll raise that
[2009-10-20 22:31:09] <Tango42> AndrewRT: Yes, I can write a few words for the newsletter - what is the deadline?
[2009-10-20 22:31:22] <AndrewRT> end of the week?
[2009-10-20 22:31:27] <Tango42> ok
[2009-10-20 22:31:32] <AndrewRT> cheers tango42
[2009-10-20 22:31:38] <Tango42> np
[2009-10-20 22:31:39] <mpeel> Tango42: I've already had conversations with rand about that, and we'll continue those as appropriate.
[2009-10-20 22:31:54] <Tango42> Good, but don't sign anything until it is dealt with
[2009-10-20 22:32:02] <AndrewRT> sure
[2009-10-20 22:32:14] <Tango42> Signing in the hope that it will be sorted out later is always a bad idea
[2009-10-20 22:38:43] <Tango42> AndrewRT: I've added something to our wiki page on the fundraiser about the usability project
[2009-10-20 22:39:03] <AndrewRT> which page?
[2009-10-20 22:39:07] <Tango42> We should look into running some studies in the UK on how people use the projects
[2009-10-20 22:39:21] <Tango42>
[2009-10-20 22:39:40] <mpeel> "Up to £10,000 will be used to develop better technology in Wikimedia, in partnership with the Usability Project. In particular, running usability studies to find out how people in the UK use the Wikimedia projects and how things could be improved for them."
[2009-10-20 22:39:42] <Tango42> The WMF's studies were entirely restricted to people from SF I think
[2009-10-20 22:40:18] <mpeel> Tango42: I think that they were talking to people remotely as well, but the in-person ones were in SF only
[2009-10-20 22:40:42] <Tango42> By doing a UK study we could get some very useful info and we would be doing something related to the UK, rather than a global thing, which we should be trying to do as much as possible
[2009-10-20 22:40:48] <Tango42> Yes, I mean the in-person studies
[2009-10-20 22:40:57] <Tango42> you learn far more from them than questionaires
[2009-10-20 22:42:25] <mpeel> it's a lot more difficult to quantify in-person studies than questionnaires, though
[2009-10-20 22:42:32] <mpeel> you learn more, but about a smaller sample
[2009-10-20 22:42:48] <mpeel> so small number statistics can be a big problem
[2009-10-20 22:43:09] <mpeel> additionally, what you learn is different from person to person, rather than being standardized.
[2009-10-20 22:46:30] <Tango42> Usually the in-person results are easy to interpret. "90% of subjects couldn't find the "Help" link.", for example, doesn't need a large sample size to be useful.
[2009-10-20 22:47:00] <Tango42> You aren't looking for things specific to individuals, you are looking for things that crop up with multiple subjects
[2009-10-20 22:47:34] <mpeel> Tango42: with your suggestion for scholarships, it's worth bearing in mind that the WMF aren't sure whether they want to be handing out designated scholarships again next year; they might insist on them being for anyone if it went through them.
[2009-10-20 22:47:49] <mpeel> of course, we could handle the scholarships entirely ourselves, which would remove that issue.
[2009-10-20 22:48:04] <Tango42> Re. Celtic language stuff - we can probably get grants for that, rather than it coming out of general funds
[2009-10-20 22:48:28] <AndrewRT> Tango42 - I was thinking of approaching National Assembly for Wales etc as well
[2009-10-20 22:48:37] <AndrewRT> would be good if we could put our own money in tto
[2009-10-20 22:48:59] <AndrewRT> _too_
[2009-10-20 22:49:24] <Seddon> I could do that, i have a few contacts 
[2009-10-20 22:50:19] <Tango42> mpeel: Yes, I saw that. We'll have to wait and see - I can imagine them discovering that that just isn't an option if they want to get lots of funds. We could try an organise it ourselves as an alternative - I did have a pie-in-the-sky idea of getting a chartered plane to take lots of UK Wikimedians to Wikimania and back either free or subsidised. We might be able to get an airline to give...
[2009-10-20 22:50:20] <Tango42> a free plane - worth asking!
[2009-10-20 22:50:50] <mpeel> Tango42: busses, planes... what's next?
[2009-10-20 22:50:55] <Tango42> Does the National Assembly give out those kind of grants? I was thinking of NGOs
[2009-10-20 22:51:07] <Tango42> mpeel: An aircraft carrier, of course.
[2009-10-20 22:51:26] <Tango42> I wasn't planning of keeping the plane - just borrowing it for one return journey!
[2009-10-20 22:51:40] <AndrewRT> yes they do - support Welsh language
[2009-10-20 22:52:54] <Tango42> The minutes of the voice meeting is the record...
[2009-10-20 22:53:49] [INFO] Disconnecting from IRC.  Click close again to exit now.
[2009-10-20 22:53:49] <Tango42> Streaming the meetings would be something we could usefully do with our own server in a colo
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