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Apologies about the rather confusing logs near the end - there was a massive netsplit.


[2009-03-02 20:30:06] <AndrewRT> KTC has emailed his apologies
[2009-03-02 20:30:10] <AndrewRT> so we need a chair
[2009-03-02 20:30:35] <Warofdreams> i don't mind chairing
[2009-03-02 20:30:52] <AndrewRT> well volunteered!
[2009-03-02 20:31:25] <Warofdreams> I thought I'd better get in before the rush :)
[2009-03-02 20:31:41] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk-board +o mpeel  by chanserv
[2009-03-02 20:31:46] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk-board +m  by mpeel
[2009-03-02 20:31:56] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk-board -o mpeel  by chanserv
[2009-03-02 20:32:16] <mpeel> are we all here, then?
[2009-03-02 20:32:20] <AndrewRT> yep
[2009-03-02 20:32:25] <mpeel> cfp?
[2009-03-02 20:32:34] <cfp> yup
[2009-03-02 20:32:37] <cfp> evening all
[2009-03-02 20:32:42] <Warofdreams> evening
[2009-03-02 20:32:50] <AndrewRT> hi Tom
[2009-03-02 20:32:53] <Warofdreams> ok, we've had apologies, so minutes of last meeting
[2009-03-02 20:32:56] <Warofdreams> available at
[2009-03-02 20:33:16] <AndrewRT> I had a query here:
[2009-03-02 20:33:21] <AndrewRT> can anyone remember?
[2009-03-02 20:33:44] <AndrewRT> Seddon could you clarify?
[2009-03-02 20:33:57] <Warofdreams> it wasn't entirely clear to me; I just typed what I'd assumed, but as I'm not directly involved
[2009-03-02 20:34:02] <mpeel> My recollection agrees with yours, Andrew.
[2009-03-02 20:34:20] <Warofdreams> I'm quite happy to agree with you, Andrew
[2009-03-02 20:34:50] <mpeel> [22:32] Seddon: press releases (articles) , i know we discussed it last week but upon reflection i think that wikimania having its own articles would be better
[2009-03-02 20:34:50] <mpeel> [22:32] Seddon: simply because it avoids it looking like its just piggy backing on the chapter
[2009-03-02 20:34:50] <mpeel> [22:32] Seddon: it should really be standing on its own two feet
[2009-03-02 20:34:51] <mpeel> [22:33] Seddon: getting in touch with the bbc tech news might be a good idea for initial releases
[2009-03-02 20:34:51] <mpeel> [22:33] AndrewRT: I'm fine with that
[2009-03-02 20:34:52] <mpeel> [22:33] Seddon: these dont have to be done as a chapter as such
[2009-03-02 20:34:55] <mpeel> [22:33] AndrewRT: are you happy to organise those?
[2009-03-02 20:34:55] <mpeel> [22:34] Seddon: i was hoping someone with a little more experiance with dealing with press than me
[2009-03-02 20:34:57] <mpeel> [22:34] Seddon: if it was at all possible
[2009-03-02 20:34:59] <mpeel> [22:34] AndrewRT: ok I could take that as an action
[2009-03-02 20:35:09] <mpeel> from the logs of the last meeting
[2009-03-02 20:35:36] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk-board +v Seddon  by chanserv
[2009-03-02 20:35:37] <AndrewRT> I'm happy to keep the action but could it be clarified in the minutes
[2009-03-02 20:36:39] <Warofdreams> seddon, do you want to comment on this?
[2009-03-02 20:36:52] <AndrewRT> can we discuss later under Wikimania but just change the minutes atm
[2009-03-02 20:38:16] <Warofdreams> ok, would you like to suggest what to change the minutes to?
[2009-03-02 20:38:37] <Seddon> id say that the minutes to be changed to - press releases for the bid, which do not generally have to be be under the chapter name
[2009-03-02 20:38:57] <AndrewRT> "AT agreed to do a press releases for the bid, which would be separate from the press release about the formation of the chapter.
[2009-03-02 20:39:10] <Seddon> what he said :)
[2009-03-02 20:39:27] <Warofdreams> that sounds good and clear.
[2009-03-02 20:39:29] <cfp> yup that sounds fine to me
[2009-03-02 20:39:32] <AndrewRT> ok done
[2009-03-02 20:39:40] <AndrewRT> I've aso suggested a couple of other changes
[2009-03-02 20:40:03] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk-board -v Seddon  by chanserv
[2009-03-02 20:40:12] <AndrewRT>
[2009-03-02 20:40:31] <AndrewRT> all minor changes - ae they ok
[2009-03-02 20:40:33] <AndrewRT> ?
[2009-03-02 20:40:45] <Warofdreams> I'm not bothered either way about noting that we wouldn't take any action on 11.1, but I've removed the closing time - I don't think it's needed
[2009-03-02 20:41:02] <AndrewRT> ok - we have before
[2009-03-02 20:41:03] <Warofdreams> the closing time is in the logs, if anyone really wants to know
[2009-03-02 20:41:12] <AndrewRT> I'm happy to leave off
[2009-03-02 20:41:16] <Warofdreams> cool.
[2009-03-02 20:41:25] <AndrewRT> I'm happy with the minutes as they are now
[2009-03-02 20:41:27] <Warofdreams> 3.1 AGM Tellers / Location (AT)
[2009-03-02 20:41:43] <Warofdreams> sorry, think I'm jumping ahead a little
[2009-03-02 20:41:44] <AndrewRT> right thats me
[2009-03-02 20:41:56] <Warofdreams> is everyone now happy with the minutes as they stand?
[2009-03-02 20:42:05] <Warofdreams> mpeel, cfp?
[2009-03-02 20:42:15] <mpeel> they look fine to me
[2009-03-02 20:42:45] <Warofdreams> cfp?
[2009-03-02 20:43:44] <AndrewRT> cfp is pinging
[2009-03-02 20:43:48] <cfp> minutes look fine
[2009-03-02 20:43:52] <cfp> sorry
[2009-03-02 20:44:03] <cfp> i thought we'd moved on.
[2009-03-02 20:44:03] <AndrewRT> ok me then
[2009-03-02 20:44:06] <Warofdreams> great.  ok, Andrew, now on to AGM Tellers/Location
[2009-03-02 20:44:09] <AndrewRT> AGM Tellers
[2009-03-02 20:44:15] <AndrewRT> I've spoken to James Farrar
[2009-03-02 20:44:21] <AndrewRT> he's happy with everything as it's going
[2009-03-02 20:44:33] <AndrewRT> also emailed Sarah McCulloch - she's happy too
[2009-03-02 20:44:47] <AndrewRT> I've set up an email address
[2009-03-02 20:44:56] <AndrewRT> which redirects 
[2009-03-02 20:45:06] <AndrewRT> so I think that's all in hand at the moment
[2009-03-02 20:45:09] <AndrewRT> AGM Location
[2009-03-02 20:45:17] <AndrewRT> Less successful here I'm afraid
[2009-03-02 20:45:26] <AndrewRT> been too busy during the week to phone Bham Uni
[2009-03-02 20:45:33] <AndrewRT> drew a blank with the students there
[2009-03-02 20:45:54] <AndrewRT> I'm a bit worried what they'll say when I do ring 
[2009-03-02 20:46:11] <AndrewRT> will they give a room for free to an external organisation?
[2009-03-02 20:46:25] <AndrewRT> normally you need to book it in a students name
[2009-03-02 20:46:39] <AndrewRT> at least - preferably a student society name
[2009-03-02 20:46:50] <AndrewRT> and I've drawn a blank in getting these
[2009-03-02 20:47:13] <AndrewRT> does anyone have any experience with this?
[2009-03-02 20:47:16] <mpeel> if we can't go through a student / university employee, then I'd be very surprised if we got a room.
[2009-03-02 20:47:37] <cfp> i thought we had a contact at the uni?
[2009-03-02 20:47:48] <mpeel> we have several contacts at manchester uni.
[2009-03-02 20:47:58] <mpeel> I didn't think we had any for birmingham
[2009-03-02 20:48:02] <AndrewRT> nope
[2009-03-02 20:48:10] <AndrewRT> we had someone who had a friend there
[2009-03-02 20:48:22] <AndrewRT> and there are a few WP editors who study there
[2009-03-02 20:48:33] <AndrewRT> but they're not very responsive!
[2009-03-02 20:49:03] <AndrewRT> you know what
[2009-03-02 20:49:15] <AndrewRT> I've just though I do know someone who's at Bham Uni
[2009-03-02 20:49:20] <AndrewRT> someone I went to uni with
[2009-03-02 20:49:24] <AndrewRT> shall i try him??
[2009-03-02 20:49:44] <cfp> seems worth a go.
[2009-03-02 20:49:58] <Warofdreams> yes, but I think we should come up with a back up plan
[2009-03-02 20:50:06] <AndrewRT> ok I'll do that - he works there rather than study there
[2009-03-02 20:50:32] <AndrewRT> right thats AGM Tellers and AGM Location dealt with
[2009-03-02 20:50:42] <AndrewRT> is everyone happy to leave Location with me to handle?
[2009-03-02 20:50:55] <Warofdreams> do you have a plan B, if this doesn't come off?
[2009-03-02 20:51:04] <Warofdreams> i.e. other places in Birmingham?
[2009-03-02 20:51:10] <mpeel> how long do you think it will be before you have a definite yay/nay from your contact with birmingham?
[2009-03-02 20:51:28] <AndrewRT> within the week
[2009-03-02 20:52:04] <AndrewRT> alternative is to drop Bham and pursue Manchester
[2009-03-02 20:52:26] <Warofdreams> ok, that makes sense
[2009-03-02 20:52:33] <cfp> well we should try pubs in birmingham as well
[2009-03-02 20:52:35] <Warofdreams> plan B is Manchester
[2009-03-02 20:52:42] <AndrewRT> warofdreams what does?
[2009-03-02 20:52:46] <Warofdreams> cfp: do you know of any pubs with rooms?
[2009-03-02 20:52:55] <mpeel> plan B(ii) is cardiff, it seems
[2009-03-02 20:53:07] <mpeel> (as per Seddon's offer - thanks, Seddon)
[2009-03-02 20:53:08] <cfp> well a google search would turn them up i expect.
[2009-03-02 20:53:50] <Warofdreams> maybe - although an equivalent search for Sheffield wouldn't turn much up
[2009-03-02 20:54:01] <Warofdreams> Andrew: Manchester as plan B
[2009-03-02 20:54:20] <AndrewRT> does that mean pursue Bham for now?
[2009-03-02 20:54:41] <cfp> yeah i think so.
[2009-03-02 20:54:46] <Warofdreams> yes, particularly as you can get an answer within the week - enough time to sort out plan B if it falls through
[2009-03-02 20:54:48] <cfp> it's still the most appropriate location
[2009-03-02 20:54:58] <AndrewRT> ok - I'll let you know within a week what dave says
[2009-03-02 20:55:22] <Warofdreams> great.
[2009-03-02 20:55:25] <Warofdreams> 3.2 Website (MP)
[2009-03-02 20:55:33] <mpeel> We now have sysops
[2009-03-02 20:55:43] <mpeel> and the ability to de-sysop them if need be.
[2009-03-02 20:55:56] <AndrewRT> excellent!
[2009-03-02 20:55:57] <Warofdreams> that's very useful
[2009-03-02 20:56:01] <Warofdreams> thanks for pursuing this
[2009-03-02 20:56:03] <AndrewRT> thanks for that
[2009-03-02 20:56:13] <AndrewRT> any more applications for sysoping?
[2009-03-02 20:56:18] <mpeel> having sysops has already proved useful; see the sidebar on the site.
[2009-03-02 20:56:29] <AndrewRT> yeah noticed that!
[2009-03-02 20:56:35] <Warofdreams> yes, I like that
[2009-03-02 20:56:38] <mpeel> there was one guy interested on the mailing list; I was hoping he'd come along tonight...
[2009-03-02 20:57:26] <Warofdreams> any more on this?
[2009-03-02 20:57:28] <mpeel> what's our approach to approving people to become sysops?
[2009-03-02 20:57:41] <mpeel> should they come along to one of these meetings and have a chat?
[2009-03-02 20:58:03] <AndrewRT> James - coldstream
[2009-03-02 20:58:04] <mpeel> or can activeness on the mailing list be [a/the sole] indicator?
[2009-03-02 20:58:08] <AndrewRT> he was the guy
[2009-03-02 20:58:27] <AndrewRT> I dont think IRC availability should be a criteria
[2009-03-02 20:58:30] <Warofdreams> I don't see why they should have to come along to one of these meeting
[2009-03-02 20:58:35] <Warofdreams> *s
[2009-03-02 20:58:36] <AndrewRT> not everyone can do 8:30!
[2009-03-02 20:58:50] <Warofdreams> as long as board members will vouch for them
[2009-03-02 20:58:54] <AndrewRT> but we need to be comfortable with our sysops
[2009-03-02 20:59:00] <cfp> though keeping it to people whose names we recognise at least makes sense
[2009-03-02 20:59:20] <Warofdreams> whether it's activity on the mailing list, or Wikimeets, or IRC, or Wikimedia projects
[2009-03-02 21:00:06] <Warofdreams> Seddon>	i wanted to bring up, turning off anon page creation
[2009-03-02 21:00:21] <Warofdreams> there's some discussion on this in #wikimedia-uk
[2009-03-02 21:00:42] <Warofdreams> probably best to put this suggestion to the list?
[2009-03-02 21:01:18] <Warofdreams> ok, are we done with the website?
[2009-03-02 21:01:26] <mpeel> two more points.
[2009-03-02 21:01:36] <mpeel> I've put in two bug requests:
[2009-03-02 21:01:38] <mpeel>
[2009-03-02 21:01:42] <mpeel> "Enable subpages on main namespace of UK chapter website"
[2009-03-02 21:01:50] <mpeel>
[2009-03-02 21:01:53] <mpeel> "Disable CentralNotice extension on UK chapter website"
[2009-03-02 21:02:09] <mpeel> just figured I should let you all know about those.
[2009-03-02 21:02:19] <Warofdreams> excellent.
[2009-03-02 21:02:49] <AndrewRT> sorry what was the decision on James?
[2009-03-02 21:03:01] <mpeel> last point - please, please edit the wiki! It needs pretty-fying...
[2009-03-02 21:03:49] <AndrewRT> mpeel?
[2009-03-02 21:03:49] <mpeel> I don't think there was a decision on james... my inclination is to say nothing, until he's a bit more active.
[2009-03-02 21:04:13] <mpeel> AndrewRT?
[2009-03-02 21:04:24] <AndrewRT> answered dont worry
[2009-03-02 21:04:41] <Warofdreams> 3.3 Chapters Meeting (MC)
[2009-03-02 21:05:12] <Warofdreams> I posted our query to the mailing list shortly before the meeting
[2009-03-02 21:05:32] <Warofdreams> and already have replies back saying that there will be no problem in a non-board member attending
[2009-03-02 21:05:47] <AndrewRT> can I just mention something
[2009-03-02 21:05:57] <AndrewRT> I've had a reply back from the organisers
[2009-03-02 21:06:05] <AndrewRT> I sent it round the Board
[2009-03-02 21:06:12] <AndrewRT> they have arranged funding now for two people
[2009-03-02 21:06:22] <cfp> yeah i saw that, that's certainly good news
[2009-03-02 21:06:26] <AndrewRT> is now a good time to agree on who that'll be?
[2009-03-02 21:06:31] <AndrewRT> cfp - yeah sure is!
[2009-03-02 21:06:40] <mpeel> I believe that's just for flights - is that correct?
[2009-03-02 21:06:45] <Warofdreams> I think we should decide now
[2009-03-02 21:06:52] <AndrewRT> er not sure
[2009-03-02 21:06:55] <AndrewRT> I'll re-read
[2009-03-02 21:07:21] <AndrewRT> yes it does appear that way
[2009-03-02 21:07:23] <AndrewRT> good spot
[2009-03-02 21:07:31] -->| mpeel_ ( has joined #wikimedia-uk-board
[2009-03-02 21:07:32] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk-board +v mpeel_  by chanserv
[2009-03-02 21:07:38] <AndrewRT> anyone remember how much accommodation was?
[2009-03-02 21:09:14] <AndrewRT> found it €100-€150 per person
[2009-03-02 21:09:57] <AndrewRT> and flights were €150 each
[2009-03-02 21:10:08] <Warofdreams> that's what - about £80 - £120 per person for accommodation?
[2009-03-02 21:10:17] <AndrewRT> so looks like they may have only raised €300 - enough for one person
[2009-03-02 21:10:28] <AndrewRT> it's about 1 for 1 these days
[2009-03-02 21:11:23] <Warofdreams> according to Google, it's €10:£9
[2009-03-02 21:11:43] <Warofdreams> so £90 - £140 for accommodation
[2009-03-02 21:12:15] <AndrewRT> so, mpeel - are you able to contribute anythign to the costs?
[2009-03-02 21:13:03] <AndrewRT> msg from cfp "laptop crashed brb"
[2009-03-02 21:13:27] -->| cfp_ ( has joined #wikimedia-uk-board
[2009-03-02 21:13:28] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk-board +v cfp_  by chanserv
[2009-03-02 21:13:37] <AndrewRT> welcome back cfp
[2009-03-02 21:13:43] <cfp_> hi. sorry about that
[2009-03-02 21:13:46] <mpeel_> I'm not in a good financial position atm I'm afraid so it's unlikely that I can contribute much.
[2009-03-02 21:14:01] <mpeel_> (basically length of phd > length of studentship, which presents problems)
[2009-03-02 21:14:08] <AndrewRT> in that case should we go back and say we need both flight & accommodation
[2009-03-02 21:14:12] |<-- cfp has left (Nick collision from services.)
[2009-03-02 21:14:20] =-= cfp_ is now known as cfp
[2009-03-02 21:14:27] <AndrewRT> hence if they've raised €300 we'd like to fund mpeel for both
[2009-03-02 21:14:33] <AndrewRT> rather than two people's flights
[2009-03-02 21:14:41] <Warofdreams> yes, that makes sense.
[2009-03-02 21:14:53] <cfp> yeah i'd agree.
[2009-03-02 21:15:06] <mpeel_> there is a chance that I might not need a flight, but I'm not sure how good that chance is.
[2009-03-02 21:15:15] <mpeel_> (I might be driving to poland around that time)
[2009-03-02 21:15:22] <AndrewRT> if, on the other hand, we've misunderstood them and they can pay for 2 peoples flight & accommodation
[2009-03-02 21:15:29] <AndrewRT> who's going to be #2?
[2009-03-02 21:15:42] <AndrewRT> I cant remember if we decided last time?
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[2009-03-02 21:16:20] <cfp> tango?
[2009-03-02 21:16:43] <Warofdreams> I don't think we made a formal decision, but Tango seemed to be everyone's thought
[2009-03-02 21:16:51] <AndrewRT> ok I'm fine with that
[2009-03-02 21:17:39] <AndrewRT> do you want me to get back to Guillaume?
[2009-03-02 21:18:24] <Warofdreams> please
[2009-03-02 21:18:32] -->| mpeel___ ( has joined #wikimedia-uk-board
[2009-03-02 21:19:35] <AndrewRT> ok
[2009-03-02 21:20:20] <Warofdreams> right, shall we move on?
[2009-03-02 21:20:39] <Warofdreams> 3.4 HMRC charity status (AT)
[2009-03-02 21:20:49] <AndrewRT> ok thats me
[2009-03-02 21:20:58] <AndrewRT> I sent an email round
[2009-03-02 21:21:05] <AndrewRT> with the letter I'm plannign to write back
[2009-03-02 21:21:11] <AndrewRT> they asked for examples of our charitable work
[2009-03-02 21:21:30] <AndrewRT> I enclosed a WMF report, mentioned Wikipedia Loves Art and Wikimania 2010
[2009-03-02 21:21:42] <AndrewRT> the other main thing we've done is the IP consultation response
[2009-03-02 21:21:53] <AndrewRT> I wasn't sure about mentioning that
[2009-03-02 21:22:23] <AndrewRT> political campaigning is non-charitable and I wouldn't want to give them an excuse to turn us down or delay recognition
[2009-03-02 21:22:33] |<-- mpeel has left (Nick collision from services.)
[2009-03-02 21:22:41] |<-- mpeel_ has left (Nick collision from services.)
[2009-03-02 21:22:41] <Warofdreams> yes, I don't think that would be a fruitful example
[2009-03-02 21:22:42] <cfp> no that seems reasonable
[2009-03-02 21:22:56] <AndrewRT> other than that is everyone happy with the letter?
[2009-03-02 21:23:06] |<-- mpeel___ has left (Client Quit)
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[2009-03-02 21:23:22] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk-board +v mpeel  by chanserv
[2009-03-02 21:23:38] <cfp> but perhaps you should change your wording a little so it sounds like we're more active than it currently does
[2009-03-02 21:23:49] <cfp> just in terms of tone.
[2009-03-02 21:24:10] <Warofdreams> just thinking about where you say that the purpose for our establishment is to act as the UK chapter of Wikimedia
[2009-03-02 21:24:38] <Warofdreams> do we need to clarify how we are separate?  or are they not interested in that?
[2009-03-02 21:24:54] <AndrewRT> they might be interested in that
[2009-03-02 21:25:02] <mpeel> we should clarify it anyway, imo.
[2009-03-02 21:25:10] <AndrewRT> cfp - ok, I'll try to change that
[2009-03-02 21:25:21] <cfp> replace "is currently still in the formation stage" with "has only recently been formed"
[2009-03-02 21:25:24] <AndrewRT> sure, I'll clarify that
[2009-03-02 21:25:28] <AndrewRT> yeah good idea
[2009-03-02 21:26:02] <Warofdreams> any more on the letter?
[2009-03-02 21:26:08] <cfp> replace "One activity we have completed, however," with something like "much of our attention in the past month has been focused on"
[2009-03-02 21:26:53] <cfp> lets hope they mess us around less than the coop...
[2009-03-02 21:27:02] <AndrewRT> of course I'll send the final version round
[2009-03-02 21:27:08] <mpeel> I'd remove "our educational resource" from the end of that paragraph
[2009-03-02 21:27:10] <AndrewRT> hmm, here's hoping...
[2009-03-02 21:27:11] <cfp> <Seddon> it needs to be made clear that we support the goals of wikimedia but are independent
[2009-03-02 21:27:17] <Warofdreams> cfp: fortunately, even if they do, it won't hold us up in the same way
[2009-03-02 21:27:22] <AndrewRT> yeah Seddon's spot on
[2009-03-02 21:27:31] <mpeel> it's less important if the HMRC mess us around - they aren't vital, more a nice-to-have.
[2009-03-02 21:27:42] <AndrewRT> well, a very nice to have
[2009-03-02 21:28:04] <AndrewRT> ok I'll take everyone's comments on board
[2009-03-02 21:28:09] <AndrewRT> please let me know if there's anythign else
[2009-03-02 21:28:23] <AndrewRT> otherwise I'll redraft and cc you in
[2009-03-02 21:28:26] <Warofdreams> 3.5 LawWorks (AT)
[2009-03-02 21:28:28] <AndrewRT> and lets see what they say
[2009-03-02 21:28:57] <AndrewRT> LawWorks has been on the back burner - I'll follow up when things are quieter if thats ok
[2009-03-02 21:29:02] <AndrewRT> happy to have it c/f
[2009-03-02 21:29:19] <Warofdreams> will do.
[2009-03-02 21:29:24] <Warofdreams> 3.6 Wikimania press releases (AT)
[2009-03-02 21:30:05] <AndrewRT> well, we dealt with that earlier
[2009-03-02 21:30:09] <AndrewRT> haven't actioned yet
[2009-03-02 21:30:21] <AndrewRT> agreed with Seddon I'll draft something in the next fortnight
[2009-03-02 21:30:22] <Warofdreams> weren't you wanting to come back to something?
[2009-03-02 21:30:33] <AndrewRT> could we c/f
[2009-03-02 21:30:37] <Warofdreams> will do.
[2009-03-02 21:30:43] <Warofdreams> 4. Newsletter (MC)
[2009-03-02 21:30:47] <Warofdreams> The newsletter went out
[2009-03-02 21:30:58] <Warofdreams> we didn't quite make the end of February
[2009-03-02 21:31:05] <AndrewRT> yes thanks everyone for the efforts here
[2009-03-02 21:31:23] <mpeel> I circulated it on the wiki just before this meeting, so 2 days late...
[2009-03-02 21:31:33] <mpeel> can we aim for ~ 14th march for the next newsletter?
[2009-03-02 21:31:38] <AndrewRT> I think we should really try to get the March one out earlier
[2009-03-02 21:31:39] <Warofdreams> it was very good to be able to include the bank account news
[2009-03-02 21:31:44] <AndrewRT> than the Feb one
[2009-03-02 21:31:54] <AndrewRT> WarofDreams 0 yes that's true
[2009-03-02 21:32:10] <Warofdreams> yes, it should definitely be earlier
[2009-03-02 21:32:24] <Warofdreams> but February is a particular problem what with it being so short
[2009-03-02 21:32:45] <mpeel> it's only 2-3 days shorter than most months!
[2009-03-02 21:32:45] <AndrewRT> mpeel - 14th March for distribution?
[2009-03-02 21:33:03] <Warofdreams> will we have enough news by then?
[2009-03-02 21:33:19] <AndrewRT> we'll have the AGM
[2009-03-02 21:33:21] <Warofdreams> I guess if we have the AGM venue, that'd be the main thing
[2009-03-02 21:33:34] <AndrewRT> possibly tax exempt
[2009-03-02 21:33:38] <AndrewRT> another wikimeet
[2009-03-02 21:34:04] <AndrewRT> wont haev candidates for the Board until ~21st
[2009-03-02 21:34:09] <mpeel> there's a wikimeet on the 14th...
[2009-03-02 21:34:38] <mpeel> I'm not sure candidates should go into the newsletter until after the closing time (unless they want to)
[2009-03-02 21:34:59] <AndrewRT> close of nominations is pencilled in for 21st March
[2009-03-02 21:35:10] <AndrewRT>
[2009-03-02 21:35:49] |<-- mpeel__ has left (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[2009-03-02 21:35:52] <Warofdreams> that could be an argument for getting it out on the 14th, give people notice that they can stand
[2009-03-02 21:36:02] <AndrewRT> true
[2009-03-02 21:37:20] <AndrewRT> how about 16th - gives time for writing up the wikimeets and also time for people to read newsletter and get their nomination in
[2009-03-02 21:37:58] <Warofdreams> I think we should either go for 14/15/16, or around 22/23, once we've sorted out the noms
[2009-03-02 21:38:07] <mpeel> 16th sounds good to me
[2009-03-02 21:38:24] <AndrewRT> shall we divide up sections now?
[2009-03-02 21:38:38] <mpeel> leave it to the next meeting, methinks.
[2009-03-02 21:38:45] <mpeel> (assuming we have one next week)
[2009-03-02 21:39:08] <Warofdreams> I'd quite like to distribute sections now
[2009-03-02 21:39:15] <Warofdreams> even if we have some blanks
[2009-03-02 21:39:38] <mpeel> ok, I won't object then.
[2009-03-02 21:39:39] <AndrewRT> cfp? now or next meeting?
[2009-03-02 21:40:52] <cfp> next would make more sense to me
[2009-03-02 21:41:39] <AndrewRT> ok lets leave till next then
[2009-03-02 21:41:53] <Warofdreams> might be ok if we do meet early next week, but people haven't always been quick to write sections
[2009-03-02 21:42:23] <Warofdreams> initial template at
[2009-03-02 21:42:27] <AndrewRT> thanks
[2009-03-02 21:42:34] <Warofdreams> 5. Treasurer's Report (TH) 
[2009-03-02 21:42:49] <cfp> bank account is opened
[2009-03-02 21:42:59] <cfp> stationary should hopefully arrive in the next few days
[2009-03-02 21:43:01] <AndrewRT> well done!
[2009-03-02 21:43:06] <AndrewRT> excellent news
[2009-03-02 21:43:09] <cfp> at which point i can log in online etc
[2009-03-02 21:43:13] <Warofdreams> :D
[2009-03-02 21:43:26] <mpeel> great
[2009-03-02 21:43:40] <cfp> mpeel has paid various cheques in
[2009-03-02 21:43:47] <cfp> so we should now have a positive balance
[2009-03-02 21:43:58] <AndrewRT> in the meantime, shoudl we publicise the sort code so people can do bank transfers?
[2009-03-02 21:43:58] <cfp> (at least until we pay expenses)
[2009-03-02 21:44:06] <mpeel> I paid in £268 of cheques from memberships and donations.
[2009-03-02 21:44:29] <mpeel> I look forward to hearing whether those have been processed...
[2009-03-02 21:44:44] <AndrewRT> who will you hear from?
[2009-03-02 21:44:52] <cfp> yeah we could. though perhaps at the moment it'd be easiest if direct transfers were limited to donations
[2009-03-02 21:44:57] <cfp> not membership
[2009-03-02 21:45:06] <cfp> at least until internet banking is up.
[2009-03-02 21:45:44] <AndrewRT> some people have not joined because they were waiting for the bank to be opened so they could do direct transfers
[2009-03-02 21:45:50] <mpeel> do we want to accept direct transfers of membership fees before or after their application forms have been received?
[2009-03-02 21:46:29] <cfp> ok well i guess there's no reason they couldn't be published now
[2009-03-02 21:46:32] <AndrewRT> i suggest we accept and write them a cheque if the membership is refused
[2009-03-02 21:46:37] <mpeel> I'm not sure it depends on internet banking - we need to check with cheques whether they've gone through anyway.
[2009-03-02 21:46:38] <cfp> providing we give clear guidelines on reference codes
[2009-03-02 21:46:54] <AndrewRT> cfp - yes that's a formula for confusion!
[2009-03-02 21:47:02] <AndrewRT> imagine reference = WMUK or such like
[2009-03-02 21:47:19] <AndrewRT> are we accepting payment by Standing Order?
[2009-03-02 21:47:28] <AndrewRT> i.e. £1 per month rather than £12 in one go
[2009-03-02 21:47:57] <cfp> i don't see why we shouldn't, providing we're reasonably sure the payments will continue for a full year
[2009-03-02 21:48:50] <AndrewRT> mpeel, WarofDreams?
[2009-03-02 21:48:50] <cfp> well what the ref code should be depends partly on what info the balance sheet (e.g. online...) provides us. i presume it gives the name of the donor, but it'd be good to see it to be sure.
[2009-03-02 21:49:16] <Warofdreams> yes, I think it's good to be flexible
[2009-03-02 21:49:24] <mpeel> I'd prefer if it were kept yearly, as it's a lot easier to process.
[2009-03-02 21:49:37] <mpeel> but that's the only objection I have to monthly payments...
[2009-03-02 21:49:53] <cfp> perhaps the easiest thing (for us) would be for those wanting to pay membership by bank transfer to be issued with a unique code to put in the ref field. then we'd be sure of no confusions.
[2009-03-02 21:49:54] <mpeel> we'd need to keep track of them, and notice if they stop coming in.
[2009-03-02 21:49:55] <AndrewRT> what was the point of making it divisible by 12 then?
[2009-03-02 21:50:14] <AndrewRT> we could ask people to put their membership number in
[2009-03-02 21:50:33] <Warofdreams> so we could describe it as being £1/month - even if we decide not to allow people to pay that way
[2009-03-02 21:50:43] <AndrewRT> I see!
[2009-03-02 21:51:02] <cfp> once we have direct debit it's certainly different. because then it's us taking the money rather than vice versa
[2009-03-02 21:51:03] <mpeel> if they're applying for membership, then they won't have a membership number.
[2009-03-02 21:51:17] <mpeel> we could of course give them a unique code in advance, that could turn into their membership number.
[2009-03-02 21:51:52] <cfp> so what i was envisioning was: person applies for membership, mpeel gets the letter, sees they want to pay by bank transfer, mpeel e-mails them a code to put in the ref field.
[2009-03-02 21:52:03] <AndrewRT> sounds good
[2009-03-02 21:52:09] <AndrewRT> mpeel - u happy to implement this?
[2009-03-02 21:52:10] <cfp> whether that code is the membership number of something else is a little by the by.
[2009-03-02 21:52:16] <cfp> sorry for volunteering you
[2009-03-02 21:52:22] <AndrewRT> presumably the form needs to be revised
[2009-03-02 21:52:28] <mpeel> that sounds ok to me.
[2009-03-02 21:52:47] <mpeel> please action me to update the membership application...
[2009-03-02 21:52:54] <cfp> thanks mpeel.
[2009-03-02 21:53:14] <mpeel> there'll be a delay in the middle, I guess, where we approve the applicatino?
[2009-03-02 21:53:31] <AndrewRT> yes - that'll have to wait till the next Board meeting
[2009-03-02 21:53:54] <mpeel> btw, what's the status of paypal?
[2009-03-02 21:53:59] <cfp> yes. in fact that's a good thing though. as it means people who aren't accepted won't have to pay etc etc.
[2009-03-02 21:54:18] <AndrewRT> who was following up paypall?
[2009-03-02 21:54:20] <cfp> good point. paypal's waiting on hmrc
[2009-03-02 21:54:21] <cfp> me
[2009-03-02 21:54:25] <AndrewRT> ah
[2009-03-02 21:54:27] <AndrewRT> ok
[2009-03-02 21:54:35] <AndrewRT> I'll let you know as soon as I hear anything then
[2009-03-02 21:54:43] <mpeel> could you remind me, why was it waiting for hmrc?
[2009-03-02 21:54:48] <cfp> though i can now put our bank details into paypal etc.
[2009-03-02 21:55:08] <cfp> well waiting for hmrc is perhaps avoidable in the short term.
[2009-03-02 21:55:14] <cfp> i filled out the form as a charity
[2009-03-02 21:55:24] <cfp> so they demanded proof.
[2009-03-02 21:55:30] <cfp> let me retrieve the emails
[2009-03-02 21:55:37] <AndrewRT> do charities get a better rate?
[2009-03-02 21:56:05] <cfp> yeah.
[2009-03-02 21:56:14] <cfp> we currently have "restrictions on our account"
[2009-03-02 21:56:21] <AndrewRT> well fingers crossed that wont be long
[2009-03-02 21:56:43] <mpeel> what do those entail?
[2009-03-02 21:56:53] <cfp> Why is my account access limited?
[2009-03-02 21:56:53] <cfp> Your account access has been limited for the following reason(s):
[2009-03-02 21:56:53] <cfp> # 11 Dec. 2008: PayPal requires accounts within the charity / non-profit category to provide us with some additional information regarding their organisation. Upon a recent review, your account was identified as falling within this classification. Until we can collect this information, your access to sensitive account features will be limited. Please take a moment to provide us with this information so that we can restore your access as soo
[2009-03-02 21:57:13] <mpeel> can we still receive money and transfer it to the bank account?
[2009-03-02 21:57:32] <AndrewRT> presumably not then
[2009-03-02 21:57:44] <cfp>   	11 Dec. 2008 	Cancelled Cheque/Bank Statement 	Waiting for your response 	Resolve
[2009-03-02 21:57:44] <cfp>   	11 Dec. 2008 	Proof of Tax Exempt 	Waiting for your response 	Resolve
[2009-03-02 21:57:44] <cfp>   	11 Dec. 2008 	Organisation and Payment Information 	Waiting for your response
[2009-03-02 21:57:51] <cfp> that's what they want.
[2009-03-02 21:57:56] <cfp> we can now do the first of those three
[2009-03-02 21:58:01] <cfp> and the last
[2009-03-02 21:58:18] <AndrewRT> action cfp to do that??
[2009-03-02 21:58:25] <cfp> yup sure.
[2009-03-02 21:58:32] <cfp> oh actually we can still receive payments:
[2009-03-02 21:58:34] <cfp> What can I do while my account access is limited?
[2009-03-02 21:58:34] <cfp>     * receive payments
[2009-03-02 21:58:34] <cfp>     * add funds by an electronic funds transfer
[2009-03-02 21:58:34] <cfp>     * place logos into your auction listings or on your website
[2009-03-02 21:58:34] <cfp>     * update your account information
[2009-03-02 21:58:51] <AndrewRT> yeah just not transfer them into our account though!
[2009-03-02 21:59:03] <AndrewRT> that could be a problem if HMRC declines us or it drags on
[2009-03-02 21:59:34] <cfp> well if hmrc declines us we can switch to a non charity account
[2009-03-02 21:59:45] <cfp> probably not worth switching for a fortnight though
[2009-03-02 21:59:57] <mpeel> can we get the money out?
[2009-03-02 22:00:12] <cfp> no not while these restrictions on
[2009-03-02 22:01:25] <Warofdreams> ok, any more on 5.1 Bank Account?
[2009-03-02 22:01:33] <mpeel> another btw: how goes the accounting software?
[2009-03-02 22:01:39] <cfp> on the other half of my bullet points for this week (the budget), still haven't done anything on it i'm afraid, but now the bank account is (nearly) out the way i can move on to it
[2009-03-02 22:01:42] <Warofdreams> 5.2 Accounting software (TH)
[2009-03-02 22:01:55] <AndrewRT> sorry, what's the budget?
[2009-03-02 22:01:58] <cfp> my term's nearly over after which i'll have the time to devote a date to it
[2009-03-02 22:02:05] <cfp> accounts i mean
[2009-03-02 22:02:10] <cfp> sorry.
[2009-03-02 22:02:11] <AndrewRT> ah i c
[2009-03-02 22:02:16] <AndrewRT> ok c/f?
[2009-03-02 22:02:18] <cfp> a day to it i meant as well
[2009-03-02 22:02:21] <cfp> so action me again
[2009-03-02 22:02:25] <Warofdreams> will do.
[2009-03-02 22:02:36] <cfp> c/f?
[2009-03-02 22:02:38] <Warofdreams> 6. Secretary's Report (AT)
[2009-03-02 22:02:49] <AndrewRT> nothing we haven't already covered
[2009-03-02 22:03:00] <Warofdreams> 7. Membership Report (MP)
[2009-03-02 22:03:20] <AndrewRT> any more applicants?
[2009-03-02 22:03:33] <mpeel> nothing to report, I'm afraid.
[2009-03-02 22:03:47] <mpeel> well... aside from the cheques being paid in, which was discussed above.
[2009-03-02 22:03:53] <mpeel> my letterbox has been silent...
[2009-03-02 22:04:04] <Warofdreams> 8. Timetable Review (All)
[2009-03-02 22:04:06] <AndrewRT> I'm sure the rush is around the corner then!
[2009-03-02 22:04:17] <AndrewRT> I've done some cheeky changes I'm afraid
[2009-03-02 22:04:22] <AndrewRT> hope everyone's ok with that
[2009-03-02 22:04:44] <AndrewRT> First
[2009-03-02 22:04:54] <AndrewRT> noticed that we'd put the AGM on Easter Saturday
[2009-03-02 22:05:03] <AndrewRT> so i thought best to put it back!
[2009-03-02 22:05:27] <AndrewRT> Then
[2009-03-02 22:05:42] <AndrewRT> expanded the election process so that I coudl sort out the notice of AGM
[2009-03-02 22:06:18] <AndrewRT> presume Finish opening bank account; Begin accepting donations
[2009-03-02 22:06:22] <AndrewRT> is now complete?
[2009-03-02 22:06:31] <cfp> yup
[2009-03-02 22:06:38] <AndrewRT> when should we date that?
[2009-03-02 22:07:00] <AndrewRT> Feb 26?
[2009-03-02 22:07:38] <AndrewRT> I've made the change
[2009-03-02 22:07:43] <Warofdreams> great
[2009-03-02 22:08:04] <AndrewRT> tax exempt - say two weeks, 16th March?
[2009-03-02 22:08:36] <cfp> how certain are we of the agm date? i nearly booked some flights earlier today which would have put me on holiday on that date
[2009-03-02 22:08:49] <AndrewRT> still just a pencil in
[2009-03-02 22:09:00] <AndrewRT> I think we should set a date we can all make
[2009-03-02 22:09:05] <AndrewRT> if poss
[2009-03-02 22:10:06] <AndrewRT> How's Saturday 26th April?
[2009-03-02 22:10:06] <mpeel> which year? this year the 26th is a sunday
[2009-03-02 22:10:06] <AndrewRT> sorry 25th
[2009-03-02 22:10:40] <AndrewRT> just within the 6 month deadline!!
[2009-03-02 22:10:43] <mpeel> I'm away most of the week before, but the 25th's fine with me.
[2009-03-02 22:10:52] <AndrewRT> cfp? WarofDreams?
[2009-03-02 22:11:28] <cfp> that's certainly less likely to clash, but i haven't booked those flights yet so if the 25th was problematic i could just ensure that i'm back by the 18th
[2009-03-02 22:11:54] <Warofdreams> either 18th or 25th is ok with me
[2009-03-02 22:12:02] <cfp> i could possibly just fly in to manchester
[2009-03-02 22:12:32] <mpeel> 18th has the advantage that it's still in the easter holiday, I think... (at least it is for my uni)
[2009-03-02 22:13:10] <AndrewRT> is that a good thing or a bad thing in terms fof turnout?
[2009-03-02 22:13:26] <cfp> it's rather ambiguous isn't it.
[2009-03-02 22:13:56] * mpeel shrugs
[2009-03-02 22:14:16] <AndrewRT> cfp - is your preference 25th?
[2009-03-02 22:14:32] <cfp> yes. but if there are good reasons to prefer the 18th i'm prepared to be overruled
[2009-03-02 22:14:55] <AndrewRT> I have no preference for either
[2009-03-02 22:15:10] <AndrewRT> in fact a weak preference for the 25th as it gives more leeway if there's venue problems
[2009-03-02 22:15:49] <AndrewRT> mpeel, WarofDreams, any preference?
[2009-03-02 22:16:03] <Warofdreams> no preference from me
[2009-03-02 22:16:09] <mpeel> can I suggest that we set up a doodle with the possible dates, and let the mailing list decide?
[2009-03-02 22:16:20] <mpeel> doodle ==
[2009-03-02 22:16:29] <Warofdreams> only issue is that it might hold up booking a venue
[2009-03-02 22:16:39] <mpeel> impose a deadline
[2009-03-02 22:16:43] <AndrewRT> I'd prefer we decided today
[2009-03-02 22:16:49] <AndrewRT> so we could book the venue
[2009-03-02 22:17:29] <cfp> well why don't we agree to be bound by the result of the doodle, and put a 48 hour deadline on it
[2009-03-02 22:17:42] <cfp> or maybe even 24 hours
[2009-03-02 22:17:46] <mpeel> cfp's suggestion sounds good to me.
[2009-03-02 22:17:58] <cfp> since i should really book these flights sooner rather than later
[2009-03-02 22:17:59] <AndrewRT> ok - 48 hours is fine
[2009-03-02 22:18:34] <AndrewRT> right that's that then
[2009-03-02 22:18:47] <AndrewRT> can I change the timetable to reflect both dates for now
[2009-03-02 22:18:52] <cfp> k
[2009-03-02 22:18:54] <AndrewRT> and can someone take an action to set up the doodle?
[2009-03-02 22:18:57] <Warofdreams> yep
[2009-03-02 22:19:10] <Warofdreams> doodle: mpeel - can you do that?
[2009-03-02 22:19:13] <mpeel> sure
[2009-03-02 22:19:27] <mpeel> do we want the options to just be the 18th or 25th, or have more dates?
[2009-03-02 22:19:39] <AndrewRT> what other dates did you have in mind?
[2009-03-02 22:19:46] <AndrewRT> 11th is easter
[2009-03-02 22:19:53] <AndrewRT> 4th is Berlin
[2009-03-02 22:20:03] <AndrewRT> coudl do 2nd May I suppose
[2009-03-02 22:20:04] <mpeel> 2nd may would just be possible.
[2009-03-02 22:20:09] <mpeel> there's sundays, though.
[2009-03-02 22:20:47] <Warofdreams> I take it doodle will let us vote for as many as we like?
[2009-03-02 22:20:48] <AndrewRT> well, positives for Sundays is that Seddon, one of the candidates will be able to make it
[2009-03-02 22:21:03] <mpeel> 18th / 19th / 25th / 26th / 2nd / 3rd?
[2009-03-02 22:21:10] <mpeel> Warofdreams: yup
[2009-03-02 22:21:15] <mpeel> you say which days you're available
[2009-03-02 22:21:26] <AndrewRT> ok sounds reasonable
[2009-03-02 22:21:29] <mpeel> it points out the one which most people can attend.
[2009-03-02 22:21:42] <Warofdreams> great.  I say not 4th, as we're already concerned about getting a venue
[2009-03-02 22:21:59] <Warofdreams> and getting one confirmed in plenty of time for 4th could be an issue
[2009-03-02 22:22:37] <cfp> this is 4th of may
[2009-03-02 22:22:49] <cfp> oh april
[2009-03-02 22:23:09] <AndrewRT> I agree with WarofDreams but because it clashes with Berlin
[2009-03-02 22:23:09] <cfp> sorry
[2009-03-02 22:23:23] <AndrewRT> and I think we should have as many people there as possible
[2009-03-02 22:23:53] <AndrewRT> I've updates the timeline again
[2009-03-02 22:23:57] <mpeel> how about the 11th/12th april?
[2009-03-02 22:24:01] <Warofdreams> ok, why not let's offer 18/19/25/26 April and 2/3 May, as there's no big obstacle to holding it on any of those dates, just a matter of getting attendance
[2009-03-02 22:24:13] <Warofdreams> mpeel: Easter?
[2009-03-02 22:24:14] <AndrewRT> action mpeel to doodle it and announce it on the list?
[2009-03-02 22:24:32] <mpeel> is easter important?
[2009-03-02 22:24:33] <mpeel> ;-)
[2009-03-02 22:24:48] <mpeel> will the event last all day, or do we need to choose AM/PM?
[2009-03-02 22:24:59] <Warofdreams> probably find transport more difficult - always lots of work on the track over Easter
[2009-03-02 22:25:22] <cfp> i think pm is the only option
[2009-03-02 22:25:28] <cfp> people are coming large distances
[2009-03-02 22:25:31] <AndrewRT> I originally said 12pm - 5pm 
[2009-03-02 22:25:36] <AndrewRT> so people can arrange travel
[2009-03-02 22:26:25] <mpeel> ok, poll is set up at
[2009-03-02 22:26:55] <Warofdreams> great.  10. WMF Chapter's Grants (MP)
[2009-03-02 22:27:33] <AndrewRT> mpeel?
[2009-03-02 22:27:52] <AndrewRT>
[2009-03-02 22:28:19] <mpeel> info at
[2009-03-02 22:28:49] <AndrewRT> What's teh deadline?
[2009-03-02 22:28:50] <mpeel> basically "If a chapter has work it wants to get done in the furtherance of our overall mission and goals during the fiscal year 2009-2010 (July 1, 2009 -June 30, 2010), but it cannot do it without financial support, the Wikimedia Foundation is inviting that chapter to ask the Wikimedia Foundation for funding"
[2009-03-02 22:28:56] <mpeel> deadline is 7 April
[2009-03-02 22:29:08] <mpeel> "The minimum amount a chapter can ask for is USD 500. There is no set maximum, but we expect most requests will not exceed USD 15,000."
[2009-03-02 22:29:30] <mpeel> "All requests must line up with our shared mission. We will favor high impact requests over low impact ones. Example requests could include: funding for a Wikipedia-related conference or workshop, for a meeting with other chapters, for a legal opinion related to free culture, for relevant open source software development, etc."
[2009-03-02 22:29:31] <AndrewRT> I suggest we delay it a couple of weeks till the AGm is arranged
[2009-03-02 22:30:13] <cfp> seems sensible
[2009-03-02 22:30:21] <AndrewRT> is that ok mpeel?
[2009-03-02 22:30:31] <mpeel> I mention it so that we can all start thinking about it, and coming up with ideas.
[2009-03-02 22:30:37] <AndrewRT> yeah good idea
[2009-03-02 22:30:56] <AndrewRT> shame deadline is before the AGM!
[2009-03-02 22:30:57] <mpeel> one idea that came up on the mailing list was funding for wikimedians to go into schools and do talks
[2009-03-02 22:31:15] <mpeel> I've been toying with the idea of talking to a local library about digitization...
[2009-03-02 22:31:25] <mpeel> (local == my university library)
[2009-03-02 22:31:37] <AndrewRT> well, you could put something together yourself and bring to the Board?
[2009-03-02 22:31:39] <mpeel> they have some collections that it would be great to get online.
[2009-03-02 22:31:48] <mpeel> sure
[2009-03-02 22:32:19] <AndrewRT> hwo about we put something to the list from the Board inviting people to put together proposals?
[2009-03-02 22:32:33] <mpeel> that would be good
[2009-03-02 22:32:48] <AndrewRT> that way we're not having to do the heavy lifting nor acting as a bottleneck
[2009-03-02 22:32:54] <mpeel> action me to set up an area on the website for proposal writing, and emailing the list?
[2009-03-02 22:33:00] <AndrewRT> please
[2009-03-02 22:33:00] <Warofdreams> will do.
[2009-03-02 22:33:13] <Warofdreams> 11. Chapter's selection of WMF board members (MP)
[2009-03-02 22:33:27] <Warofdreams> think we've already covered this
[2009-03-02 22:33:32] <AndrewRT> no
[2009-03-02 22:33:33] <cfp> it's not a great list
[2009-03-02 22:33:39] <Warofdreams> oh, sorry, misread it
[2009-03-02 22:33:40] <AndrewRT> have we?
[2009-03-02 22:33:42] <cfp> i haven't checked it again recently
[2009-03-02 22:33:57] <AndrewRT> can someone summarise for the minutes?
[2009-03-02 22:34:08] <cfp> but i still think it's kind of preposterous for the chapter's representative not to be someone from one of the chapters
[2009-03-02 22:34:22] <cfp> are we talking about the same thing?
[2009-03-02 22:34:25] <mpeel> I haven't been following this too closely, so it would be good if someone else could summarize it...
[2009-03-02 22:34:29] <mpeel> cfp: nope
[2009-03-02 22:34:42] <AndrewRT> shall i?
[2009-03-02 22:34:45] <mpeel> this is about chapters electing WMF board members...
[2009-03-02 22:34:48] <mpeel> AndrewRT: please
[2009-03-02 22:35:05] <AndrewRT> WMF decided that two WMF Board members will be nominated by the chapters
[2009-03-02 22:35:20] <AndrewRT> chapters collectively asked to come up with a selection method and then decide on two people
[2009-03-02 22:35:33] <AndrewRT> lot sof discussions seem to have gone on before we were formed
[2009-03-02 22:35:40] <AndrewRT> so we seem to be coming in half way
[2009-03-02 22:35:50] <AndrewRT> anyway, there are five candidates now
[2009-03-02 22:35:55] <AndrewRT>
[2009-03-02 22:36:07] <AndrewRT> one is our very own James Forrester
[2009-03-02 22:36:14] <mpeel> please don't give out the names...
[2009-03-02 22:36:19] <AndrewRT> oh
[2009-03-02 22:36:20] <AndrewRT> why not?
[2009-03-02 22:36:25] <mpeel> it's a closed wiki
[2009-03-02 22:36:35] <AndrewRT> ok then
[2009-03-02 22:36:38] <mpeel> not all of the the candidates don't know that they're candidates.
[2009-03-02 22:36:51] <AndrewRT> i think all do now
[2009-03-02 22:37:05] <AndrewRT> shall we take this discussion private?
[2009-03-02 22:37:30] <mpeel> that depends on what we want to discuss
[2009-03-02 22:37:32] <cfp> yeah this was what i was talking about above. i think there are two people i would be prepared to vote for, both linked to the german chapter
[2009-03-02 22:37:52] <mpeel> I think we're fine discussing the process publicly, but if we want to discuss people then we should go private.
[2009-03-02 22:37:54] <AndrewRT> i think we need to discuss our chapters view
[2009-03-02 22:38:15] <AndrewRT> on process, on particular candidates, etc
[2009-03-02 22:38:18] <cfp> well perhaps we should discuss some general principals publically first
[2009-03-02 22:38:31] <cfp> e.g. are we prepared to vote for someone who has no links to a chapter
[2009-03-02 22:38:50] <cfp> (am i right in thinking that we vote as a chapter?)
[2009-03-02 22:39:04] <AndrewRT> yes i think we do vote as a chapter
[2009-03-02 22:39:05] <mpeel> yes; we vote as a chapter.
[2009-03-02 22:39:44] <AndrewRT> ok - lets do what cfp suggests
[2009-03-02 22:39:57] <AndrewRT> I've emailed the chapters list a couple of times
[2009-03-02 22:40:32] <AndrewRT> My understanding was the point of involving the chapters was to through up people who had experience with chapters
[2009-03-02 22:40:46] <AndrewRT> as Board members or even just as activists
[2009-03-02 22:41:08] <mpeel> mpeel: IMO, and as I understand it, the aim is to use the chapters network to find people with userul expertise, rather than representatives of the chapters.
[2009-03-02 22:41:08] <mpeel> [22:39] mpeel: ... some disagree with that, though.
[2009-03-02 22:41:22] <AndrewRT> I'm not at all keen in nominating people aho haven't even been chapter members
[2009-03-02 22:41:48] <AndrewRT> mpeel - yes I think that's right; they're not there to represent chapters
[2009-03-02 22:42:52] <Warofdreams> so they should be useful people who are known to the chapters and perhaps not to the WMF?
[2009-03-02 22:44:21] <AndrewRT> i guess so
[2009-03-02 22:44:25] <mpeel> possibly, although it's all rather free-form.
[2009-03-02 22:44:56] <AndrewRT> yes the process has bene very unclear to me throughout
[2009-03-02 22:45:32] <AndrewRT> i suggest by the end of this meeting we shoudl have a clear idea of what WMUK thinks
[2009-03-02 22:45:45] <AndrewRT> and communicate this back to other chapters
[2009-03-02 22:45:51] <AndrewRT> - i shoudl say the WMUK Board
[2009-03-02 22:46:05] <AndrewRT> hence pushing the debate forward
[2009-03-02 22:46:20] <cfp> well i hate to sound like an economist, but we should probably be primarily considering who is going to best represent our interests. yes, it is in our best interests for wmf to be well managed etc., but we also have more "selfish" desires about our representation as a chapter etc etc., and i think it'd be silly to ignore them
[2009-03-02 22:47:00] <mpeel> I'm of the opposing view, I'm afraid.
[2009-03-02 22:47:23] <AndrewRT> cfp - true - but we shouldn't take that to the extreme because if we nominate someone who's no good to teh WMF they wont ask the chapters to input again
[2009-03-02 22:47:27] <mpeel> we should at least be considering the views of the UK community, and preferably of the wider community.
[2009-03-02 22:47:45] <cfp> well i think there's a balance to be struck.
[2009-03-02 22:48:01] <mpeel> there always is
[2009-03-02 22:48:03] <AndrewRT> how will we get input from the UK community if the nominations are secret?
[2009-03-02 22:48:07] <cfp> since the community doesn't know the list of names even it's a little hard to consider their views perhaps
[2009-03-02 22:48:11] <cfp> yes, exactly
[2009-03-02 22:48:24] <mpeel> that's very true.
[2009-03-02 22:48:31] <AndrewRT> well, I guess that could be our feedback: make the nominations public first
[2009-03-02 22:49:28] <mpeel> that sounds good
[2009-03-02 22:49:44] <cfp> yup i agree.
[2009-03-02 22:49:57] <Warofdreams> I agree with that
[2009-03-02 22:50:00] <AndrewRT> WarofDreams, what do you think?
[2009-03-02 22:50:10] <Warofdreams> ^ :)
[2009-03-02 22:50:33] <AndrewRT> huh?
[2009-03-02 22:50:49] <cfp> that was an up arrow
[2009-03-02 22:50:54] <cfp> he said he agrees
[2009-03-02 22:50:59] <Warofdreams> if we're choosing someone to represent the community, the community as a whole should have some input.
[2009-03-02 22:51:22] <AndrewRT> right - that's that then
[2009-03-02 22:51:34] <AndrewRT> action someone to feed that back?
[2009-03-02 22:51:39] <AndrewRT> me as secretary?
[2009-03-02 22:51:45] <Warofdreams> ok with me
[2009-03-02 22:51:50] <cfp> thanks for volunteering
[2009-03-02 22:52:14] <Warofdreams> 12. AGM
[2009-03-02 22:52:22] <Warofdreams> 12.1 Resolutions (AT)
[2009-03-02 22:52:34] <AndrewRT> right
[2009-03-02 22:52:35] <AndrewRT> it's gettign late
[2009-03-02 22:52:50] <AndrewRT> depending on when we're next meeting these could be put off till next time
[2009-03-02 22:53:15] <Warofdreams> we probably need to meet next week to plan the newsletter, although that won't take long
[2009-03-02 22:53:35] <AndrewRT> in that case can I suggest we put this off
[2009-03-02 22:53:38] <Warofdreams> and hopefully we'll have some more memberships to approve
[2009-03-02 22:53:46] <AndrewRT> unless people really want to do this now
[2009-03-02 22:54:42] <mpeel> delaying for a week would be good
[2009-03-02 22:55:58] <Warofdreams> delaying all further discussion of the AGM?
[2009-03-02 22:56:00] <mpeel> although, is it worth briefly discussing 12.2?
[2009-03-02 22:58:29] <AndrewRT> I think there's only two things left on AGM - resolutions and speakers
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[2009-03-02 23:01:04] <cfp> we seem to have paused?
[2009-03-02 23:01:22] <cfp> i think this probably means we're all getting distracted and should stop.
[2009-03-02 23:01:28] <cfp> either that or my connection's down
[2009-03-02 23:02:14] <cfp> next tuesday, 8:30 then?
[2009-03-02 23:02:27] <cfp> in line with the whole monday/tuesday alternation thing
[2009-03-02 23:02:48] <AndrewRT> speakers I've put a post out on the list
[2009-03-02 23:02:48] <AndrewRT> asking for suggestions
[2009-03-02 23:02:49] <AndrewRT> by next week we'll have more ideas back
[2009-03-02 23:02:49] <AndrewRT> so it might be better to discuss then
[2009-03-02 23:02:50] <mpeel> btw, I think we skipped #9, Wikimania bid...
[2009-03-02 23:03:15] <AndrewRT> oh yeah we did
[2009-03-02 23:03:31] <Warofdreams> oh yes - apologies
[2009-03-02 23:03:33] <Warofdreams> I'm surprised Seddon didn't shout at the time
[2009-03-02 23:04:31] <AndrewRT> shall we go back to Wikimania?
[2009-03-02 23:04:32] <Warofdreams> ok, 9. Wikimania bid (TH)
[2009-03-02 23:04:35] <Warofdreams> in the meantime, does anyone else have anything on the bid?
[2009-03-02 23:04:35] <Warofdreams> cfp?
[2009-03-02 23:04:37] <Warofdreams> Seddon>	yer im here, there isnt much to report tbh, im still awaiting a reply from bt, though i had a response from my reminder that he sees no reason why they cannot support wikimania
[2009-03-02 23:04:41] <AndrewRT> Seddon>	ill be posting some stuff to the list for more discussion etc
[2009-03-02 23:04:42] <AndrewRT> <Seddon>	but nothing else from me
[2009-03-02 23:04:42] <Warofdreams> ok, great
[2009-03-02 23:04:43] <mpeel> shall we move on?
[2009-03-02 23:04:44] <AndrewRT> yes I think so
[2009-03-02 23:04:44] <AndrewRT> WarofDreams?
[2009-03-02 23:04:44] <Warofdreams> 13. Any Other Business
[2009-03-02 23:04:44] <AndrewRT> none from me
[2009-03-02 23:04:44] <Warofdreams> nor from me
[2009-03-02 23:04:45] <AndrewRT> mpeel? cfp?
[2009-03-02 23:04:45] <mpeel> none from me
[2009-03-02 23:04:46] <AndrewRT> is that close then?
[2009-03-02 23:04:46] <Warofdreams> shall we set the next meeting date
[2009-03-02 23:04:46] <Warofdreams> we've said next week
[2009-03-02 23:04:46] <mpeel> 9th or 10th march?
[2009-03-02 23:05:07] <Warofdreams> I can't do 9th
[2009-03-02 23:05:26] <mpeel> tuesday 10th, then?
[2009-03-02 23:05:43] <Warofdreams> would be good with me
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[2009-03-02 23:07:38] <cfp> netsplit there...
[2009-03-02 23:07:42] <cfp> are we all back
[2009-03-02 23:07:52] <Warofdreams> hmm - looks like time to stop.  Next meeting Tuesday 10th at 20:30.  Meeting closed at 23:10.
[2009-03-02 23:07:53] <mpeel> 'tis fine with me.
[2009-03-02 23:07:54] <mpeel> does anyone have a complete irc log?
[2009-03-02 23:08:03] <Warofdreams> cfp: "hmm - looks like time to stop. Next meeting Tuesday 10th at 20:30. Meeting closed at 23:10."
[2009-03-02 23:08:15] <cfp> great
[2009-03-02 23:08:24] <mpeel> ok


[2009-03-02 20:33:13] <Warofdreams> the board meeting has now started in #wikimedia-uk-board
[2009-03-02 20:34:27] <Seddon> clarify?
[2009-03-02 20:35:19] <Seddon> ahhhhh ok
[2009-03-02 20:35:23] <Seddon> i see what you mean
[2009-03-02 20:36:01] <mpeel> seddon, you have voice in #wikimedia-uk-board
[2009-03-02 20:36:38] <mpeel> (apologies Warofdreams if I'm usurping your chairing powers with that...)
[2009-03-02 20:37:25] <Warofdreams> no problem - as our meetings are pretty uncontentious, it's good to keep them fairly informal
[2009-03-02 20:51:09] <Seddon> There is always cardiff
[2009-03-02 20:51:27] <mpeel> Seddon: how do you mean?
[2009-03-02 20:51:35] <Warofdreams> we had a pretty clear offer in Manchester
[2009-03-02 20:51:47] <AndrewRT> coudl you book a room in Cardiff, Seddon?
[2009-03-02 20:51:57] <mpeel> I'm based in Manchester, so I could assist with that offer if needed.
[2009-03-02 20:52:00] <Seddon> Ill look into it tomorrow
[2009-03-02 20:52:07] <mpeel> * in Manchester == at Manchester Uni
[2009-03-02 20:52:32] <Seddon> we may as well look at both manchester and cardiff for rooms 
[2009-03-02 20:52:43] <Seddon> report back asap
[2009-03-02 20:56:27] <Seddon> i wanted to bring up, turning off anon page creation
[2009-03-02 20:56:49] <Seddon> allowing anon's to edit but having page creation turned off
[2009-03-02 20:57:08] <AndrewRT> Would it be best to raise on the lis first, see what the reaction of the community is?
[2009-03-02 20:58:50] <mpeel> one interesting thing: en.wp is the only wikipedia to have disabled anon page creation.
[2009-03-02 20:59:11] -->| hugh ( has joined #wikimedia-uk
[2009-03-02 20:59:26] <Seddon> mpeel: you heard what DannyB said though
[2009-03-02 20:59:33] <mpeel> yup.
[2009-03-02 20:59:44] <mpeel> my opinion is that it should be left enabled until it becomes a problem.
[2009-03-02 21:00:14] <Seddon> the main page does need to be protected
[2009-03-02 21:00:22] <mpeel> it does.
[2009-03-02 21:01:09] |<-- hugh has left (Client Quit)
[2009-03-02 21:01:19] <Seddon> along with all MoA's AoA's as well
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[2009-03-02 21:01:34] <Seddon> constitution
[2009-03-02 21:01:38] <Tango42> The main page is now protected
[2009-03-02 21:01:45] <Seddon> these are things that should only be editted by the board
[2009-03-02 21:01:51] <Seddon> in all honesty
[2009-03-02 21:01:54] <Tango42> (I think it was unprotected mainly because the people editing it weren't admins yet)
[2009-03-02 21:02:17] <Seddon> all board members are admins i believe anyway
[2009-03-02 21:02:20] <mpeel> I was just about to protect it, but then had to type... :)
[2009-03-02 21:02:34] <Seddon> :P
[2009-03-02 21:02:43] <Tango42> :)
[2009-03-02 21:02:49] <Seddon> minutes and logs of board meetings should ideally be protected
[2009-03-02 21:03:02] <Tango42> yeah, shall I go ahead and protect lots of stuff now?
[2009-03-02 21:03:14] <AndrewRT> yes please
[2009-03-02 21:03:16] <mpeel> Tango42: go for it
[2009-03-02 21:03:23] <Tango42> will do
[2009-03-02 21:03:24] <AndrewRT> knew we made you admin for something ;)
[2009-03-02 21:03:30] <Seddon> Tango42: wanna split the workload
[2009-03-02 21:03:33] <Seddon> ?I*
[2009-03-02 21:03:51] <Tango42> too complicated, we'll trip over each other. If I get board I'll hand over to you!
[2009-03-02 21:03:58] <Tango42> bored
[2009-03-02 21:03:58] <Seddon> sure thing
[2009-03-02 21:07:09] <Tango42> ok, I'm bored - you can do the IRC logs!
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[2009-03-02 21:08:06] <mpeel_> ... and then there were multiple me's. Sorry.
[2009-03-02 21:10:10] <Tango42> i've left the agenda's unprotected - I can't see anyone doing much harm editing them, but if someone else wants to protect them they might as well
[2009-03-02 21:10:25] * Tango42 slaps self for greengrocer's apostrophe
[2009-03-02 21:10:45] <Tango42> i blame tiredness
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[2009-03-02 21:16:34] <mpeel__> erm... then there were three of me.
[2009-03-02 21:17:08] <AndrewRT> Tango42 - u still ok to go to Berlin?
[2009-03-02 21:17:26] <Tango42> yeah, but I need travel and accommodation paid for - I can pay for food, but that's about it.
[2009-03-02 21:17:46] <AndrewRT> yeah no probs
[2009-03-02 21:17:49] >chanserv< op #wikimedia-uk
[2009-03-02 21:17:50] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk +o Tango42  by chanserv
[2009-03-02 21:17:59] [USAGE] kick <nickname> [<reason>]
[2009-03-02 21:17:59] [HELP] Kicks <nickname> off the current channel. Requires operator status.
[2009-03-02 21:18:01] <AndrewRT> I need to confirm with Guillaume whether they're funding both
[2009-03-02 21:18:06] =-= mpeel was booted from #wikimedia-uk by YOU (Tango42)
[2009-03-02 21:18:08] <AndrewRT> if not, we can only afford one person
[2009-03-02 21:18:12] =-= mpeel_ was booted from #wikimedia-uk by YOU (Tango42)
[2009-03-02 21:18:21] >chanserv< deop #wikimedia-uk
[2009-03-02 21:18:22] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk -o Tango42  by chanserv
[2009-03-02 21:18:25] <Tango42> and then there weren't
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[2009-03-02 21:18:36] <Tango42> lol
[2009-03-02 21:18:56] <Tango42> I can't keep up...
[2009-03-02 21:19:24] <Tango42> what was the name of that snake thing in greek mythology?
[2009-03-02 21:19:38] <Warofdreams> medusa?
[2009-03-02 21:19:50] <AndrewRT> heh
[2009-03-02 21:19:57] <mpeel___> sorry: I seem to have developed a multiple internet personality disorder
[2009-03-02 21:20:20] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk +o Seddon  by chanserv
[2009-03-02 21:20:26] =-= mpeel__ was booted from #wikimedia-uk by Seddon (Seddon)
[2009-03-02 21:20:31] <Tango42> no, she turned people to stone, I mean the one that grew extra heads whenever you chopped them off
[2009-03-02 21:20:48] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk -o Seddon  by chanserv
[2009-03-02 21:20:53] <mpeel___> thanks seddon... although I don't think I can get my nick back for a while...
[2009-03-02 21:21:13] <Warofdreams> ah, the hydra
[2009-03-02 21:21:41] <Tango42> mpeel____: You'll need to get someone to kick you out of every other channel you are in
[2009-03-02 21:21:52] <cfp> type /msg nickserv ghost (your nick)
[2009-03-02 21:22:12] <Seddon> and password
[2009-03-02 21:22:28] <cfp> if you're identified already the password isn't necessary
[2009-03-02 21:22:52] <Seddon> point taken
[2009-03-02 21:23:06] |<-- mpeel___ has left (Client Quit)
[2009-03-02 21:23:16] <Tango42> and then there were none
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[2009-03-02 21:23:24] <Tango42> yay!
[2009-03-02 21:23:45] <mpeel> that's gotten rid of half of me. Thanks. :)
[2009-03-02 21:24:59] <Seddon> it needs to be made clear that we support the goals of wikimedia but are independent
[2009-03-02 21:25:43] <Tango42> (If anyone cares, the Greek monster was Lernaean Hydra)
[2009-03-02 21:26:47] <Warofdreams> were there other hydras [hydrae? hydra?]
[2009-03-02 21:27:38] <Tango42> it would seem not
[2009-03-02 21:28:03] <Tango42> Wikipedia has a long disambig page, but only one item seems to be a mythical creature (everything else is named after it)
[2009-03-02 21:28:40] <Seddon> mpeel: It may be possible that donations from the uk during the foundations can be routed through WMUK so we can claim the tax 
[2009-03-02 21:28:51] <Seddon> foundation annual fundraiser*
[2009-03-02 21:28:58] <mpeel> Seddon: there's legal issues there, I think
[2009-03-02 21:29:07] <mpeel> e.g. there was talk that we can't just give money to the foundation
[2009-03-02 21:29:14] <Tango42> They can't be routed through, they can be routed *to*, though!
[2009-03-02 21:29:22] <mpeel> but we should participate in the fundraiser, definitely.
[2009-03-02 21:29:24] <Seddon> mpeel: only if we dont have control over the money
[2009-03-02 21:29:24] <AndrewRT> Seddon - ye, but we can't just be a channel
[2009-03-02 21:29:44] <AndrewRT> Not everything that the WMF (a US charity) does is charitable for UK purposes
[2009-03-02 21:29:51] <AndrewRT> hence we cant just be a funnel
[2009-03-02 21:30:20] <Seddon> AndrewRT: Think of it as a dam where we can control where the flow goes to
[2009-03-02 21:30:24] <Tango42> We can spend the money on joint projects or even give it as restricted donations to the WMF, as long as we aren't letting them decide what to spend it on
[2009-03-02 21:30:48] <mpeel> Once we get set up more, we might want to try to convince the WMF to have us as the preferred place for donations to them to go to instead.
[2009-03-02 21:30:53] <Seddon> We can give them money saying " You must spend this money on severs"
[2009-03-02 21:30:54] <mpeel> with the aim of doing joint projects
[2009-03-02 21:31:04] <mpeel> but we need to prove ourselves before they'll do that, methinks.
[2009-03-02 21:31:45] <Seddon> mpeel: yes and i feel that tax exemption is a key point that they are looking from the UK chapter
[2009-03-02 21:31:57] <mpeel> yes, that makes sense.
[2009-03-02 21:32:00] <Tango42> I think we might need to be more precise that just "servers"
[2009-03-02 21:32:32] <Tango42> We would need to get them to report back on what they've spent the money on and how successful the projects were and stuff
[2009-03-02 21:33:34] <Tango42> The last fundraiser had quite big links to the appropriate chapters donations pages when you tried to donate, I'm sure we can get the same next year. We reckon we can get most of the funds that come from the UK
[2009-03-02 21:34:20] <Tango42> We'll have to make some kind of agreement with the WMF about what we spend it on, but we have a very strong negotiating position given that we have no say in the matter - we have to have full control!
[2009-03-02 21:35:09] <mpeel> sure, but that makes it less likely that they'd route the money to us in the first place.
[2009-03-02 21:36:00] <Tango42> I think it's a standard thing that they work with chapters to do donations. I doubt they would make an exception for us just because the law says they can't be in control.
[2009-03-02 21:36:28] <Tango42> technically, they aren't routing the donations to us, but rather the donors.
[2009-03-02 21:36:52] <mpeel> I'm not sure how much routing they do.
[2009-03-02 21:37:09] <mpeel> they probably say something like "you should consider giving money to these guys"
[2009-03-02 21:37:13] <Tango42> the links for other chapters were pretty prominent (if you viewed the donations page in the appropriate language)
[2009-03-02 21:37:21] <mpeel> rather than "Please give money to these guys rather than us"
[2009-03-02 21:41:28] <Seddon> are there nominations being accepted?
[2009-03-02 21:41:36] <mpeel> for the next board?
[2009-03-02 21:41:42] <Seddon> yer
[2009-03-02 21:41:46] <mpeel> not yet
[2009-03-02 21:41:52] <mpeel> the announcement needs to go out
[2009-03-02 21:41:56] <Seddon> ok, i got a little worried then :P
[2009-03-02 21:42:03] <AndrewRT> see
[2009-03-02 21:42:03] <mpeel> then we'll start receiving nominations.
[2009-03-02 21:42:15] <mpeel> currently only the current board can stand, though, as no-one else is a member yet...
[2009-03-02 21:43:14] <AndrewRT> hehe
[2009-03-02 21:43:27] <AndrewRT> I'll nominate you Seddon if you like ;)
[2009-03-02 21:43:58] <Seddon> mpeel: Ill be sending my membership form on the 13th March
[2009-03-02 21:44:24] <AndrewRT> why 13th March?
[2009-03-02 21:45:29] <Seddon> cause i get £800 on that day
[2009-03-02 21:45:55] <AndrewRT> oh i c
[2009-03-02 21:46:10] <Seddon> and until then i have nothing
[2009-03-02 21:47:33] <mpeel> you'll be cutting it rather tight if you want to stand for the board, then...
[2009-03-02 21:47:50] <AndrewRT> nah it'll be fine!
[2009-03-02 21:48:10] <mpeel> don't candidates need to be members before they can be nominated?
[2009-03-02 21:48:25] <AndrewRT> strictly speaking no - they just need to be nominated by a member
[2009-03-02 21:48:40] <AndrewRT> bit of a loophole because I'm not sure that's exactly what was intended
[2009-03-02 21:48:45] <mpeel> oh, ok
[2009-03-02 21:49:27] <AndrewRT> Seddon can you afford £1?
[2009-03-02 21:50:40] <Seddon> AndrewRT: I have already been into an unauthorised overdraft once this month and been charged for it, i cant take any chances tbh
[2009-03-02 21:50:51] <AndrewRT> I know the feeling!
[2009-03-02 21:52:33] <Tango42> The one time I did that I was lucky and my bank chose not to charge me since it was my first offence in 6 months (I think that might be them being nice to students, as banks often are)
[2009-03-02 21:52:47] <Seddon> AndrewRT and tbh by the end of last week i was literally carrying all the money i had in the world and it could be counted in pennies on one hand
[2009-03-02 21:54:31] <Seddon> as a side note, i was thinking that it might be worth looking into how much printing membership cards would be
[2009-03-02 21:54:57] <AndrewRT> yes
[2009-03-02 21:55:03] <mpeel> cost of card + postage
[2009-03-02 21:55:20] <mpeel> I have a printer that I'd be happy to use to print them.
[2009-03-02 21:55:21] <AndrewRT> I was talking to someone the other say and he suggested we give out a freebee for members - something like a badge
[2009-03-02 21:55:25] <mpeel> we'd also need a design...
[2009-03-02 21:55:43] <Seddon> mpeel: give me the dimensions and ill come up with something
[2009-03-02 21:55:52] <Tango42> Standard credit card size?
[2009-03-02 21:56:03] <Seddon> good point :P
[2009-03-02 21:56:09] <Seddon> ill see what i can come up with 
[2009-03-02 21:56:13] <Warofdreams> printout + laminator or something professionally done?
[2009-03-02 21:56:20] <mpeel> thanks seddon
[2009-03-02 21:56:23] <Tango42> see
[2009-03-02 21:56:30] <mpeel> lamination's a bit more tricky...
[2009-03-02 21:57:01] <Seddon> Warofdreams: simply print onto a plastic card i was thinking
[2009-03-02 21:57:12] <Warofdreams> lamination is easy - £10 for a laminator and a few quid for a box of laminate sheets
[2009-03-02 21:57:33] <Warofdreams> but if we can print nicely on to a plastic card, sure
[2009-03-02 21:57:33] <Seddon> ^
[2009-03-02 21:57:37] <Tango42> lamination is a lot more tricky... they would need to be laminated individually after the names have been written on, which would be horribly fiddly.
[2009-03-02 21:58:08] <Tango42> you need a special printer to print on plastic cards, don't you?
[2009-03-02 21:58:17] <mpeel> I'll probably have to produce them individually anyhow.
[2009-03-02 21:58:24] <mpeel> or at best, in small batches.
[2009-03-02 21:58:27] <Warofdreams> depends how often we send them out - if we sent out a batch once every month, we could print a sheet, write the names on, then laminate the whole sheet
[2009-03-02 21:58:34] <Tango42> yes, but printing an individual card is easy. Laminating it isn't.
[2009-03-02 21:58:38] <mpeel> I didn't realise laminators were so cheap; that's not a problem then.
[2009-03-02 21:58:50] <Tango42> I thought they cost more than that too...
[2009-03-02 21:59:02] <mpeel> staples sells one for £15
[2009-03-02 21:59:04] <Tango42> it's been some time since I last laminated anything, though
[2009-03-02 21:59:06] <Seddon> having plastic cards would be more, rigorous
[2009-03-02 21:59:33] <Warofdreams> I bought one from Maplin in a sale for about £10 a couple of years ago - went to the place I used to work, so I don't have it now
[2009-03-02 22:00:55] <mpeel> - £11
[2009-03-02 22:02:33] <Tango42> We should look into merchandise at some point, too. It's a good fundraiser. I've been looking into t-shirts for Wikimania, we could get Wikimedia UK ones too and sell them. We could give out free flimsy rubbish membership cards and sell good ones for £1 or so. We might be able to get really good ones - can you get anything fancy on a membership card (usb memory stick cards or something)?
[2009-03-02 22:03:10] <AndrewRT> yes good idea! Don't fancy doing an email to teh list do you?
[2009-03-02 22:03:15] <mpeel> I don't think usb sticks are that thin...
[2009-03-02 22:03:54] <Tango42> an email re. merchandise? Asking for suggestions of what people would like? Yeah, I can do.
[2009-03-02 22:04:12] <mpeel> suggestions of where to get the merchandise from would be good, too.
[2009-03-02 22:04:13] <Tango42> No, I don't think they are either... it's the plug that would be the hard part
[2009-03-02 22:04:27] <mpeel> I guess there's cafepress, but I've heard bad things about them...
[2009-03-02 22:04:56] <Tango42> I have a t-shirt supplier that seems pretty good for wikimania. They can also polo shirts and things. Non-clothing merchandise will require some more research. (And i still need to get some other quotes to compare)
[2009-03-02 22:05:33] <mpeel> how many do they need ordering at once?
[2009-03-02 22:07:43] <Tango42> depends how cheap you want them
[2009-03-02 22:08:16] <mpeel> do you have a fit to the number-price relationship?
[2009-03-02 22:08:20] <mpeel> or data points?
[2009-03-02 22:08:33] <Tango42> I can give you a pretty exact formula...
[2009-03-02 22:10:06] <AndrewRT> How's 26th April for date of the AGM?
[2009-03-02 22:10:10] <AndrewRT> sorry 25th
[2009-03-02 22:11:01] <AndrewRT> Tango42?
[2009-03-02 22:11:03] <Tango42> For an ordinary t-shirt with a 3-colour image on the front and a 3-colour image on the back, there is a £132 fixed charge (£22 per colour per image), and then it's £2.64 a shirt. (plus VAT)
[2009-03-02 22:11:16] <Tango42> dangerously close to the 6 month mark!
[2009-03-02 22:11:17] <AndrewRT> Seddon?
[2009-03-02 22:11:26] <AndrewRT> any other potential candidates in the room?
[2009-03-02 22:11:49] <AndrewRT> yes - was 6 months the deadline for holding it or sending out the invites?
[2009-03-02 22:11:56] <Tango42> yeah, 25th can be made to work (it's not ideal, but options are limited!)
[2009-03-02 22:12:30] <Seddon> hello?
[2009-03-02 22:12:36] <AndrewRT> we'll be holding hustings at the AGM
[2009-03-02 22:12:41] <Tango42> "If by May 2009 (6 months after becoming a company) we have still not held an AGM at which all of the board stood down, or if we have not processed more than 95% of the membership applications received more than one month before the AGM, by the time it happens, then we will ask the WMF to withdraw any trademark license and official UK chapter status they have given us."
[2009-03-02 22:12:46] <AndrewRT> so if candidates could be there that would be ideal
[2009-03-02 22:12:54] <Tango42> That says "held" not "announced"
[2009-03-02 22:13:19] <AndrewRT> oh dear it does!
[2009-03-02 22:13:26] <mpeel> the exact date is the 4th may, methinks...
[2009-03-02 22:13:34] <mpeel> (based on the timeline)
[2009-03-02 22:13:35] <Tango42> 4th may sounds familiar to me
[2009-03-02 22:14:10] <Tango42> So any more delays and we will be forced to ritually castrate you all...
[2009-03-02 22:14:24] <AndrewRT> Tango is your preference 25th?
[2009-03-02 22:14:28] <AndrewRT> or 18th?
[2009-03-02 22:14:33] <AndrewRT> Any preference Seddon?
[2009-03-02 22:14:54] <Seddon> I cannot attend on any saturday
[2009-03-02 22:15:17] <AndrewRT> ah
[2009-03-02 22:15:20] <AndrewRT> that's a pity
[2009-03-02 22:15:21] <Tango42> 18th, probably. Term starts on the 27th.
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[2009-03-02 22:17:17] <Tango42> Let's set the deadline at 10:20pm 2/3/09 - it's time we actually had a firm date...
[2009-03-02 22:17:58] <Warofdreams> Not a good deadline - I make it 10:21pm
[2009-03-02 22:18:20] <AndrewRT> I make it 22:17
[2009-03-02 22:18:20] <Seddon> 10:21:30 pm
[2009-03-02 22:18:29] <Seddon> :P
[2009-03-02 22:18:31] <mpeel> 23:17 here
[2009-03-02 22:18:34] * mpeel is running on polish time
[2009-03-02 22:19:18] <Tango42> I made up :17 when I sent that
[2009-03-02 22:19:45] <Seddon> i would be grateful if we could oen up considering sundays
[2009-03-02 22:20:46] <Tango42> It clashing with Berlin isn't the end of the world, it just means one or two people won't be able to attend. That they are busy representing the chapter abroad probably won't count against them in the election!
[2009-03-02 22:21:14] <AndrewRT> yeah but it's good to have them there
[2009-03-02 22:22:03] <Tango42> it's also good to have the AGM ASAP - it lets us get one with doing chapter stuff sooner
[2009-03-02 22:25:24] <mpeel> We're holding you back now, are we, Tango42?
[2009-03-02 22:26:05] <Tango42> Strictly speaking, no... I don't intend to do much chapter stuff! I plan to concentrate on behind the scenes stuff.
[2009-03-02 22:26:48] <mpeel> <-- please say your availability for the AGM!
[2009-03-02 22:27:44] <Tango42> no option to give preferences?
[2009-03-02 22:27:51] <Majorly> location?
[2009-03-02 22:28:04] <mpeel> probably Birmingham, maybe Manchester
[2009-03-02 22:28:11] <mpeel> no preference voting, I'm afraid...
[2009-03-02 22:28:14] <mpeel> just yay/nay...
[2009-03-02 22:29:55] <Tango42> so where should I put the cutoff? I'll probably turn up whenever it is held, but I may not be happy about it!
[2009-03-02 22:30:42] <Tango42> A couple of weeks doesn't leave long to write a proposal - they will probably want a pretty well written one.
[2009-03-02 22:31:07] <Tango42> And it takes at least 2 board meetings before anything is ever finalised. ;)
[2009-03-02 22:31:12] <AndrewRT> we've just got too much on at the moment
[2009-03-02 22:31:30] <cfp> i'd suggest that people on or hoping to be on the board use it to show preference, members use it to show availability
[2009-03-02 22:31:42] <cfp> but obviously this is entirely at the voters discretion
[2009-03-02 22:32:57] <Tango42> we can start a mailing list discussion on grants while your lot are running around like headless chickens organising the AGM. (We've had a brief discussion already)
[2009-03-02 22:33:11] <Seddon> so far sunday is the best day :P
[2009-03-02 22:33:16] <AndrewRT> yes, just what I thought!
[2009-03-02 22:33:16] <Seddon> 26th*
[2009-03-02 22:34:21] <Tango42> ok, i'll vote for my preferred dates - i'll probably turn up whenever, so choose a date based on whether or not you care if I'm in a bad mood when I arrive!
[2009-03-02 22:36:14] <cfp> at the moment it looks like tango really dislikes seddon...
[2009-03-02 22:36:24] <cfp> (j/k)
[2009-03-02 22:36:26] <Tango42> How much of this are you meant to be discussing in public? That wiki is private.
[2009-03-02 22:37:13] <mpeel> I think we're safe so far, but that I stopped andrew just in time...
[2009-03-02 22:37:39] <Tango42> I'd be interested in knowing what the selection procedure will be - that much presumably isn't confidential
[2009-03-02 22:38:04] <mpeel> basically: chapters should come to an agreement on the candidates.
[2009-03-02 22:38:25] <Tango42> that's the WMF's instructions. How have the chapters decided to do that?
[2009-03-02 22:38:26] <mpeel> selection's already been done, methinks, based on who people think would be good on the board
[2009-03-02 22:38:40] <AndrewRT> you tell us ;)
[2009-03-02 22:38:43] <Warofdreams> various chapters have named potential candidates, and now the discussion is going on
[2009-03-02 22:38:51] <Tango42> If selection had been done you wouldn't be discussing it now...
[2009-03-02 22:39:11] <Tango42> So they're hoping for a true consensus?
[2009-03-02 22:39:15] <Tango42> Is that likely to happen?
[2009-03-02 22:39:25] <mpeel> true consensus, or failing that, each chapter gets 2 votes.
[2009-03-02 22:39:27] <mpeel> I think...
[2009-03-02 22:39:33] <mpeel> that may have changed since I last checked, though.
[2009-03-02 22:39:38] <Seddon> I would agree that we shouldnt have people representing chapters who arnt allied with a chapter if that makes sense
[2009-03-02 22:39:57] <mpeel> it depends on what the aim is.
[2009-03-02 22:40:27] <Tango42> I have no firm objection to non-chapter people, but ideally they would be people with some experience of the issues affecting chapters
[2009-03-02 22:40:40] <mpeel> IMO, and as I understand it, the aim is to use the chapters network to find people with userul expertise, rather than representatives of the chapters.
[2009-03-02 22:40:45] <mpeel> ... some disagree with that, though.
[2009-03-02 22:41:16] <Tango42> I think the aim is up to the chapters do decide on - I don't think the WMF gave any instructions on that.
[2009-03-02 22:41:44] <Tango42> The WMF appoints board members to fill gaps in expertise, so it doesn't really matter what expertise the chapter members have
[2009-03-02 22:42:34] <mpeel> I guess when I said useful expertise, I meant knowledge of the wider open source / free culture / etc.  community.
[2009-03-02 22:43:29] <Tango42> they are classed as community seats, so they are there to represent the community. The chapters are part of that community, so it is open to debate what emphasis should be put on chapters and what emphasis on other aspects of the community.
[2009-03-02 22:48:09] <Tango42> cfp's point is, in fact, reinforced by law. You are legally obliged to do what you each personally think is best for the charity you are a trustee of, not what is best for the Wikimedia movement as a whole (although you may well equate those two)
[2009-03-02 22:50:19] <AndrewRT> yeah legal smeagle
[2009-03-02 22:50:37] <AndrewRT> hehe
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[2009-03-02 22:51:08] <Tango42> wasn't he Captain Hook's servant?
[2009-03-02 22:51:10] <AndrewRT> you can always find a way of demonstrating you reasonably concluded it was in the best interests
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[2009-03-02 22:51:48] <AndrewRT> of the charity
[2009-03-02 22:51:54] <Tango42> yes, the law talks about your personal opinion - no-one can really argue with you about what your personal opinion was.
[2009-03-02 22:52:09] <Tango42> the law is there to deal with COIs
[2009-03-02 22:53:21] <AndrewRT> all you have to do is ensure it was a reasonable conclusion to come to
[2009-03-02 22:58:07] <Tango42> and ensure that the bribes were in non-consecutive used notes.
[2009-03-02 22:59:02] <cfp> haha
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[2009-03-02 23:01:34] <Tango42> cfp: you connection is fine
[2009-03-02 23:02:37] <Tango42> or maybe we've been netsplit away from everyone else?
[2009-03-02 23:03:34] <cfp> life seems to have resumed
[2009-03-02 23:04:32] <mpeel> Seddon: still here?
[2009-03-02 23:04:36] <Seddon> yer im here, there isnt much to report tbh, im still awaiting a reply from bt, though i had a response from my reminder that he sees no reason why they cannot support wikimania
[2009-03-02 23:04:37] <AndrewRT> ok thats good
[2009-03-02 23:04:37] <Seddon> other than the travel section on the bid page needs working on
[2009-03-02 23:04:37] <AndrewRT> need anything from us?
[2009-03-02 23:04:37] <AndrewRT> (apart from press release!)
[2009-03-02 23:04:40] <AndrewRT> Seddon?
[2009-03-02 23:04:40] <Seddon> travel section on the bid page
[2009-03-02 23:04:40] <Seddon> thats it for now i think
[2009-03-02 23:04:40] <AndrewRT> ok thanks
[2009-03-02 23:04:40] <AndrewRT> I'll have a look see what I can do
[2009-03-02 23:04:41] <Seddon> ill be posting some stuff to the list for more discussion etc 
[2009-03-02 23:04:41] <AndrewRT> great!
[2009-03-02 23:04:41] <Seddon> but nothing else from me
[2009-03-02 23:04:42] <mpeel> when were the budget / wikimania irc meeting(s)? did they happen?
[2009-03-02 23:04:44] <mpeel> Seddon?
[2009-03-02 23:04:45] <Seddon> mpeel: had one but due to illness and a hectic week last week another one didnt happen,
[2009-03-02 23:04:45] <Seddon> i hope to have one in the next week
[2009-03-02 23:04:45] <mpeel> ok, thanks.
[2009-03-02 23:04:46] <mpeel> I'd say I was looking forward to it, but I think I need to do work for it first...
[2009-03-02 23:04:46] <Seddon> :P
[2009-03-02 23:04:46] <mpeel> apologies: I've also had a busy week, with another to come.
[2009-03-02 23:04:55] <Tango42> whoa! I have lots of messages appearing at once!
[2009-03-02 23:05:42] <Seddon> mpeel: has that doodle link been sent to the list?
[2009-03-02 23:05:57] <mpeel> not yet...
[2009-03-02 23:06:04] <Warofdreams> I've added it to the website
[2009-03-02 23:06:06] <Tango42> I had some any other business, but I can't remember what it was...
[2009-03-02 23:06:17] <Tango42> oh, yes!
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[2009-03-02 23:06:48] <Tango42> That's a netsplit...
[2009-03-02 23:06:56] <cfp> exciting
[2009-03-02 23:06:59] <Tango42> I thought something wasn't working right...
[2009-03-02 23:07:09] <cfp> yeah it was decidedly odd
[2009-03-02 23:07:19] <cfp> how hard can it be to write a working irc server...
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[2009-03-02 23:07:38] <Tango42> a long pause followed by lots of messages appearing at once
[2009-03-02 23:07:42] <Tango42> And we're back!
[2009-03-02 23:07:46] <Tango42> Where was I?
[2009-03-02 23:07:50] <Tango42> ah, yes
[2009-03-02 23:08:13] <Tango42> Someone emailed the list about a conference that I thought we ought to be represented at, and there was very little discussion.
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[2009-03-02 23:08:42] <Tango42> some input from the board would be good
[2009-03-02 23:08:56] <AndrewRT> I'll have a look
[2009-03-02 23:09:21] <Tango42> can you find the email, or do you want me to dig it out?
[2009-03-02 23:10:44] <AndrewRT> I've got it its ok
[2009-03-02 23:11:08] <Tango42> I think I have a complete log
[2009-03-02 23:11:19] <Tango42> Unless anyone said anything during the netsplit
[2009-03-02 23:11:34] <mpeel> Seddon: email has been sent to the list now.
[2009-03-02 23:12:05] <mpeel> Tango42: could you upload it to the wiki, please?
[2009-03-02 23:12:13] <Tango42> probably
[2009-03-02 23:12:28] <mpeel> I have a complete log during the end bit (I didn't disconnect, amazingly), so can check that bit.
[2009-03-02 23:12:51] <Tango42> [23:06]	|<--	mpeel has left (
[2009-03-02 23:13:04] <Tango42> it was a netsplit - everyone disconnected from somebody's perspective
[2009-03-02 23:13:09] <mpeel> ah, ok
[2009-03-02 23:14:03] *tomaw* [Global Notice] Hi all.  A couple of our hubs lost connectivity for a minute or so there resulting in a rather large and noising split.  We have worked around the issue for now and are hopeful things will now settle down.  Sorry for the inconvenience and thank you for using freenode!
[2009-03-02 23:14:11] <Tango42> yep, i've found it
[2009-03-02 23:14:37] <Tango42> do you want both channels?
[2009-03-02 23:14:44] <mpeel> yes please
[2009-03-02 23:14:46] <Warofdreams> thanks for looking in - bye!
[2009-03-02 23:14:57] <Tango42> byebye!
[2009-03-02 23:15:08] <--| Warofdreams has left #wikimedia-uk