Meetings/2009-03-30/IRC

#wikimedia-uk-board

[20:32] KTC: hi
[20:32] cfp: shall we get going then?
[20:32] KTC: k
[20:32] Warofdreams: hi
[20:32] AndrewRT: hi all
[20:33] KTC: http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-03-16
[20:33] KTC: http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-03-30/Agenda
[20:33] AndrewRT: agenda's not ready yet
[20:33] AndrewRT: sorry I started it & didn't finish! 
[20:33] KTC: shall we insert items as needed as we go along ?
[20:34] Warofdreams: or cover them under AOB if they aren't urgent
[20:34] AndrewRT: sure
[20:34] KTC: are people who were here, and who didn't write the minute happy with the last 1?
[20:35] Warofdreams: I guess that would be cfp and AndrewRT
[20:35] AndrewRT: one sec
[20:36] AndrewRT: yep fine by me
[20:37] KTC: AGM - Replacement teller (AT)
[20:37] AndrewRT: thats me
[20:37] cfp: seems fine
[20:37] AndrewRT: I emailed James as discussed
[20:37] AndrewRT: he's fine with the role
[20:37] AndrewRT: so I asked him and James F to act
[20:37] You were promoted to operator by ChanServ.
[20:37] AndrewRT: which they are currenly doing!
[20:38] AndrewRT: I've also updated the tellers@wikimedia.org.uk address to cover him too
[20:38] You made this room moderated for normal users.
[20:38] You were demoted from operator by ChanServ.
[20:38] KTC: thanks
[20:38] KTC: AGM - Booking location (AT)
[20:38] AndrewRT: ok
[20:38] AndrewRT: I've emailed Sarah today
[20:39] AndrewRT: first day she could book the room is today
[20:39] AndrewRT: not sure if she has or not
[20:39] AndrewRT: I'll follow up and let you know asap
[20:39] cfp: do we have a phone number for her?
[20:39] AndrewRT: unfortunately no
[20:39] AndrewRT: but she's on fb regularly
[20:39] AndrewRT: so I'll msg her there as well
[20:39] mpeel: fb?
[20:39] KTC: facebook
[20:39] KTC: ?
[20:40] AndrewRT: sorry yes
[20:40] AndrewRT: lost her mobile recently
[20:40] AndrewRT: hence why no number!
[20:40] KTC: any other question ?
[20:40] Warofdreams: has majorly passed on any news of a back-up, in case the booking falls through?
[20:40] AndrewRT: i think he was looking at the friends meeting house
[20:40] AndrewRT: I've been to a mtg there before - sure it would be suitable
[20:41] AndrewRT: although I understand they would charge
[20:41] Warofdreams: great, we're unlikely to need it, but it's good to have a plan B
[20:41] Warofdreams: if it's comparable to the Friends Meeting House in Sheffield, the charge would be affordable
[20:41] AndrewRT: yeah probably
[20:42] KTC: Website - Bugs (MP)
[20:42] AndrewRT: KTC - I've updated the agenda
[20:42] mpeel: I don't think anything's changed with the bugs on bugzilla
[20:42] mpeel: I haven't had chance to chase
[20:42] KTC: AndrewRT k
[20:42] mpeel: but they're low priority anyway.
[20:42] KTC: well, AndrewRT, keep going then 
[20:43] KTC: # AGM - Resolutions (AT)
[20:43] KTC: # AGM - Speakers (AT)
[20:43] KTC: # AGM - Notice (AT)
[20:43] AndrewRT: ok
[20:43] AndrewRT:
[20:43] AndrewRT: resolutions
[20:43] AndrewRT: as agreed I emailed Tango asking him to consider amending his resolution
[20:43] mpeel: ok... returning to bugs later?
[20:43] KTC: mpeel, yeah
[20:43] mpeel: kk
[20:43] AndrewRT: sorry mpeel!
[20:43] cfp: are we ok to submit our amendment to the resolution at the agm itsefl
[20:44] AndrewRT: Tango replied saying he wanted to keep his resolution as is
[20:44] AndrewRT: unfortunately no
[20:44] AndrewRT: because its a special resolution it needs the full 28 days notice
[20:44] AndrewRT: which means it's too late to submit an amendment now
[20:45] AndrewRT: what I did instead - whcih i thought was cleaner - was to put our resolution and his as separate resolutions
[20:45] cfp: oh. damn. i'd presume we'd be able to amend it at the time
[20:45] AndrewRT: ah sorry I should have said
[20:45] cfp: which form of our resolution did you put?
[20:45] AndrewRT: I put two resolutions
[20:45] AndrewRT: (1) (ours) Restrict ability to terminate agreement
[20:46] AndrewRT: (2) (Tangos) Restrict ability to terminate or amend agreement
[20:46] AndrewRT: And then a recommendation from the Board to vote Yes to (1) and No to (2)
[20:46] Warofdreams: they are at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009_AGM/Resolutions
[20:46] mpeel: out of curiosity, what happens if both are passed?
[20:46] KTC: u don't
[20:46] cfp: oh. we really should have put the compromise form agreed on the mailing list
[20:47] AndrewRT: yep and at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009_AGM/Notice#Resolutions
[20:47] KTC: u just skip the second one if 1 is passed
[20:47] cfp: i should have paid more attention to the resolutions list
[20:47] cfp: this is entirely my fault
[20:47] mpeel: KTC: do you?
[20:47] mpeel: that isn't clear to me...
[20:47] cfp: “The board may not itself terminate the Chapters Agreement or amend it in any way such that Wiki UK Limited looses the right to the trademark Wikimedia UK.” incompatible encoding
[20:47] AndrewRT: KTC: no you dont
[20:47] AndrewRT: If 1 & 2 pass then 2 is effective
[20:47] mpeel: we're going to loose the right? don't you mean lose the right?
[20:47] AndrewRT: because 2 is more restrictive
[20:48] KTC: ah yes, sorry
[20:48] KTC: what i said only applies if it were the other way round
[20:48] cfp: i'm not sure i want either of them to pass as a result
[20:48] cfp: oh well.
[20:49] KTC: mpeel, typo can just be fixed
[20:49] AndrewRT: we can always discuss at teh AGM
[20:49] mpeel: the version on the page actually seems to be " The Directors may not, except with approval of the Membership by Special Resolution, terminate this Chapter Agreement."
[20:49] mpeel: with Tango's version being " The Directors may not, except with approval of the Membership by Special Resolution, terminate or amend this Chapter Agreement."
[20:50] mpeel: according to http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009_AGM/Resolutions
[20:50] AndrewRT: if we get a consensus then we can withdraw the resolution and reput to next year's AGM
[20:50] cfp: tango's objection to ours on the mailing list was valid i think
[20:50] AndrewRT: it will still be relevant then
[20:50] AndrewRT: I'm not sure it was
[20:50] AndrewRT: which objection did you have in mind?
[20:51] cfp: what he said on the list, that we can just amend it to an empty contract basically
[20:51] AndrewRT: only with the consent of the Foundation
[20:51] AndrewRT: the chapter can terminate unilaterally but only amend with their consent
[20:52] AndrewRT: also, any members who strongly object could always call an EGM - the threshold is fairly low for that
[20:52] AndrewRT: which would have the same effect as requiring an EGM
[20:53] AndrewRT: I'm afraid when I sent out the notice all I had was two texts - Tangos and out original one
[20:53] AndrewRT: As Tango insisted on going with his one I had assumed that the attempt at compromise had failed
[20:53] AndrewRT: apoligies if that was the wrong conclusion
[20:53] KTC: right, since we can't actually change it now, can we move on? unless someone has something solid to suggest, like propose to the agm to vote for 2 instead of 1, or neither etc.
[20:54] AndrewRT: what's next, speakers?
[20:54] KTC: yes
[20:54] AndrewRT: ok to move on?
[20:54] Warofdreams: please
[20:54] cfp: sure
[20:55] AndrewRT: speakers - staff member of BBC has emailed the list
[20:55] AndrewRT: I followed up with him and he's agreed to come and lead one of our discussions
[20:55] mpeel: great
[20:55] AndrewRT: I've drafted an email for the list but wanted to pass it by him first
[20:55] AndrewRT: seems excellent news - we may be able to persuade them to release some of their archive
[20:55] AndrewRT: under CC
[20:55] mpeel: do you know what the theme of the discussion will be, beyond BBC-Wikipedia interactions?
[20:56] AndrewRT: general BBC-WMUK collaborations
[20:56] AndrewRT: three themes:
[20:56] AndrewRT: (1) Releasing BBC material for use in WP etc
[20:56] AndrewRT: (2) BBC reusing WP material on their pages
[20:56] AndrewRT: (3) Enabling BBC staff members to edit WP
[20:57] AndrewRT: how does that sound?
[20:57] mpeel: that sounds great, although (3) is already possible...
[20:57] Warofdreams: sounds very interesting, and should generate productive discussion
[20:57] AndrewRT: yes that one was mroe about encouraging them
[20:58] cfp: sounds fine. it's good we've got someone to external whatever they're talking about
[20:58] AndrewRT: complying with their staff code etc
[20:58] AndrewRT: The talks were to last an hour
[20:58] AndrewRT: My suggestion is to have four people leading the discussions
[20:58] AndrewRT: Two internal, two external
[20:58] AndrewRT: Internal - WMania bid
[20:59] AndrewRT: and either media (Gerard) or Wikipedia for Schools
[20:59] mpeel: WMania bid will no longer be a bid at the time - it'll either win or become a non-issue...
[20:59] AndrewRT: other external - possible Open Rights Group
[20:59] AndrewRT: mpeel - yes
[20:59] AndrewRT: if it's a win, I think we need to cover
[20:59] KTC: we can still talk about what went right or wrong?
[21:00] AndrewRT: otherwise, I suggest we direct the efforts into our first "conference"
[21:00] AndrewRT: have that in Oxford instead
[21:00] mpeel: that sounds good
[21:00] AndrewRT: what do you think?
[21:00] KTC: r we happy?
[21:00] Warofdreams: sounds a good plan
[21:00] AndrewRT: if ur all ok with those ideas,
[21:01] AndrewRT: who should do the internal ones?
[21:01] AndrewRT: Wikimania/Conference: cfp or Seddon?
[21:01] mpeel: both?
[21:01] AndrewRT: David Gerard on media or WP4Sch
[21:02] cfp: seddon's leading
[21:02] AndrewRT: cfp will you be busy in the background doing Treasurer stuff?
[21:02] mpeel: who's involved with WP4Sch in the UK?
[21:02] AndrewRT: is it Andrew Cates?
[21:02] cfp: yeah i was intending to go round quietly getting you lot to sign stuff
[21:03] AndrewRT: in that case I suggest asking Seddon
[21:03] KTC: and non-members to join cfp?
[21:03] mpeel: Andrew Cates seems right
[21:03] AndrewRT: he was saying he'll be there
[21:03] KTC: and yes, i think AC
[21:03] cfp: yeah that true ktc
[21:03] cfp: that too even
[21:03] KTC: anything else on this?
[21:03] AndrewRT: ok - shall i contact Seddon, Cates and ORG
[21:04] cfp: thanks andrew
[21:04] KTC: yeah, thanks
[21:04] Warofdreams: I'd go for WP4Sch, as that could be a good route into planning going into schools and relates to the recent twitter/wp/etc teaching which came up recently
[21:04] mpeel: it would be good if we could generally ask WP4Sch if we can do anything to help - e.g. corral volunteers, help distribute, etc...
[21:04] AndrewRT: ok
[21:04] Warofdreams: the agm would be a good time to enthuse members about it and perhaps get them more support
[21:05] AndrewRT: yeah!
[21:05] Warofdreams: it's good to have speaker sessions which could achieve something, rather than just being interesting, and these fit the bill
[21:05] Warofdreams: good work!
[21:05] AndrewRT: shall I move onto notice?
[21:05] KTC: sec
[21:05] AndrewRT: cheers WarofDreams?
[21:06] AndrewRT: _!_
[21:06] Warofdreams:
[21:06] KTC: right, going back to resolution for a sec, and tying in with notice, andrew, u said
[21:06] KTC: <AndrewRT> because its a special resolution it needs the full 28 days notice
[21:06] KTC: i read - 6.1 The minimum periods of notice required to hold a general meeting of the charity are:
[21:06] KTC:     (a) twenty-one clear days for an Annual General Meeting or a general meeting called for the passing of a Special Resolution;
[21:06] AndrewRT: think so
[21:06] AndrewRT: ah, so we still have time!
[21:07] AndrewRT: cfp - do you still want to put the compromise version?
[21:07] cfp: if we can put the compromise version that'd be bettere
[21:07] AndrewRT: ok I'll send that out
[21:08] cfp: everyone else happy with that form?
[21:08] AndrewRT: does the resolution come from cfp or from the Board?
[21:08] KTC: right, for the record, what would that be?
[21:08] LondonStatto left the chat room.
[21:08] KTC: (the wording i meant)
[21:08] LondonStatto joined the chat room.
[21:09] AndrewRT: Therefore, the Members assembled in this Annual General Meeting do hereby resolve by Special Resolution to restrict the powers of the Directors as follows: The Directors may not, except with approval of the Membership by Special Resolution, terminate the Chapters Agreement or amend it in any way such that Wiki UK Limited looses the right to the trademark Wikimedia UK
[21:10] AndrewRT: Therefore, the Members assembled in this Annual General Meeting do hereby resolve by Special Resolution to restrict the powers of the Directors as follows: The Directors may not, except with approval of the Membership by Special Resolution, terminate the Chapters Agreement or amend it in any way such that Wiki UK Limited loses the right to the trademark Wikimedia UK
[21:10] cfp: something like: "The board may not itself terminate the Chapters Agreement or amend it in any way such that Wiki UK Limited loses the right to the trademark Wikimedia UK."
[21:10] KTC:
[21:10] KTC: right, if we're happy, AGM - Notice (AT)
[21:10] cfp: i'd scrolled up, didn't see andrew's message
[21:11] AndrewRT: sorry sec
[21:11] AndrewRT: is this resolution from the Board or from cfp?
[21:11] mpeel: I would be happy either way
[21:11] AndrewRT: i.e. KTC, WarofDreams, mpeel do you support it?
[21:12] KTC: sure
[21:12] Warofdreams: I guess it's fine - seems a bit woolly, but I can't think how to easily tighten up the wording
[21:12] mpeel: I prefer the second version posted by AndrewRT, btw, otherwise it's a bit less specific...
[21:13] cfp: either's fine
[21:13] mpeel: if the agreement is even terminated, then it would be the board doing so, but with the member's approval...
[21:13] AndrewRT: ok, and just to clarify, does this replace tehe existing Board resolution or is it in addition to it?
[21:13] AndrewRT: presume it replaces it
[21:13] cfp: it replaces it i presume?
[21:14] Warofdreams: no sense in having both when they are rather similar
[21:14] AndrewRT: ok that also keeps it simple - just two resolutions to consider, ours and Tangos
[21:14] AndrewRT: good thanks
[21:14] AndrewRT: shall i go on to notice?
[21:15] KTC: plz
[21:15] AndrewRT: ok
[21:15] AndrewRT: I've sent out the notice to the email list, the board, the wiki and each individual member
[21:15] AndrewRT: and also I've sent it to the three new members who were approved
[21:15] AndrewRT: Haven't had any bounce back
[21:15] KTC: good 
[21:16] Warofdreams: excellent
[21:16] AndrewRT: whcih is good because that would mean we have to send them a copy by post!
[21:16] AndrewRT: mpeel & I have emailed and agreed that any new members mike will email them the notice
[21:16] AndrewRT: to keep it simpler
[21:16] AndrewRT: everyone happy with notice then?
[21:17] mpeel: yup
[21:17] AndrewRT: think that's me done!
[21:17] Warofdreams: yep
[21:17] KTC: um, more later andrew 
[21:17] KTC: Website - Bugs (MP) again
[21:17] AndrewRT: hehe
[21:18] mpeel: as I said before:
[21:18] mpeel: I don't think anything's changed with the bugs on bugzilla
[21:18] mpeel: I haven't had chance to chase
[21:18] mpeel: but they're low priority anyway.
[21:18] mpeel: however, there has been a little bit of progress with domain names...
[21:18] AndrewRT: thats fine
[21:18] AndrewRT: ah!
[21:18] mpeel: Erik Moller's view is that we should go ahead and transfer the wikimedia domain name
[21:18] AndrewRT: great!
[21:19] AndrewRT: have you mentioned that to James?
[21:19] mpeel: I haven't yet had chance to request it from JF yet, however, nor figure out the logistics of doing the transfer.
[21:19] AndrewRT: do you want to take an action on that then?
[21:20] mpeel: yes please
[21:20] KTC: see if u can figure out a way of doing the transfer free of charge
[21:20] Warofdreams: great, I'll note that
[21:20] mpeel: btw: I just added an entry to the agenda under AOCB.
[21:20] mpeel: I checked the transfer cost before, and it was free of charge
[21:20] AndrewRT: ok
[21:20] AndrewRT: great!
[21:20] mpeel: I'll reconfirm that before doing the transfer...
[21:20] mpeel: there will be a cost involved with renewal of the domain name, however
[21:21] AndrewRT: do u know when that's due?
[21:21] mpeel: am doing a whois now...
[21:21] mpeel:         Registered on: 12-Mar-2005
[21:21] mpeel:         Renewal date:  12-Mar-2011
[21:21] mpeel:         Last updated:  10-Feb-2009
[21:21] mpeel: for both wikimedia.org.uk and wikimedia.co.uk
[21:21] mpeel: I thought it was april...
[21:21] mpeel: should we invite JF to claim for the cost of renewal?
[21:22] AndrewRT: does that mean he's paid up to Feb 2010?
[21:22] KTC: march 2011
[21:22] mpeel: it's paid for until 12 March 2011
[21:22] AndrewRT: oh i c
[21:22] mpeel: it was last renewed 12 March 2009.
[21:22] mpeel: (well, it was renewed in advance of that, but that's the effective date)
[21:22] AndrewRT: if JF asks I think we should refund it
[21:23] mpeel: I'd expect the total cost for the two domains to be around £15-20 for the two years.
[21:23] AndrewRT: we can volunteer it if it speeds the process up!
[21:23] mpeel: personally, I think we should ask him if he wants to claim for it.
[21:24] AndrewRT: I'm happy with that
[21:24] Warofdreams: if we can afford it, I think it would be fair to do that
[21:24] mpeel: or if he doesn't, ask him if we can count it as a donation.
[21:24] mpeel: which would involve him claiming for it then donating the money back to us, but has the advantage that we could claim gift aid (?)
[21:24] jsfarrar joined the chat room.
[21:25] AndrewRT: sure but we would need a receipt for the expense I presume
[21:25] mpeel: digital receipts tend to be issued for domains; so long as he still has that...
[21:26] KTC: right, can we move on?
[21:26] mpeel: ok
[21:26] cfp: we can afford it, mpeel's suggestion sounds fine
[21:26] cfp: k
[21:26] KTC: andrew, back to u
[21:26] KTC: # HMRC charity status (AT)
[21:26] KTC: # LawWorks (AT)
[21:26] KTC: # Wikimania press releases (AT)
[21:26] AndrewRT: great!
[21:26] AndrewRT: HMRC - I complained to our MP as suggested
[21:26] AndrewRT: response from him I've just emailed everyone with
[21:26] AndrewRT: hopefully that will get some results soon
[21:27] AndrewRT: not sure what else we can do on that
[21:27] mpeel: can you summarise the email?
[21:27] AndrewRT: Dear Andrew,
[21:27] AndrewRT:
[21:27] AndrewRT: Many thanks! I'll get on to it this week.
[21:27] AndrewRT:
[21:27] AndrewRT: Best wishes
[21:27] AndrewRT:
[21:27] AndrewRT: Nick
[21:27] AndrewRT:
[21:27] mpeel: ah.  Thanks.
[21:27] AndrewRT: He's just going to forward it to the relevant minister in charge of HMRC
[21:28] AndrewRT: I presume!
[21:28] AndrewRT: Unless of course anyone knows someone who is willing to donate £4,500 to the chapter???
[21:29] AndrewRT: that way we could avoid it all and go for Charity Com registration instead!
[21:29] AndrewRT: any offers?
[21:29] AndrewRT: ok no then
[21:29] AndrewRT: I suggest we leave this till next time - that ok?
[21:29] KTC: i'll let you know if i win the lottery or something 
[21:29] AndrewRT: heh
[21:29] KTC: yes
[21:30] mpeel: best I could offer is the reciprocal of that - £(1/4500)...
[21:30] AndrewRT: LawWorks - still in the backpocket should HMRC or CC turn us down
[21:30] AndrewRT: Wikimania press releases (AT) - oops, still haven't done that
[21:31] AndrewRT: promise I will ASAP
[21:31] LondonStatto left the chat room. (Connection timed out)
[21:31] mpeel: is it worth doing a press release at this late stage?
[21:31] AndrewRT: well, depends what for
[21:31] mpeel: considering there's only a fortnight left in the process...
[21:31] AndrewRT: I think it's definitely worth doing a press release if/when we win
[21:31] cfp: brb
[21:31] AndrewRT: I'll speak to Seddon and see if he thinks we've missed the boat on a "bid" press release
[21:32] KTC: Chapter grants (MP)
[21:32] mpeel: some discussion has been happening at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Projects/Proposals
[21:32] mpeel: not much though
[21:33] AndrewRT: deadline is 7th April for WMF money
[21:33] mpeel: we only have a week left before the deadline
[21:33] AndrewRT: could we discuss my idea? http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Projects/Proposals#Seed_grant
[21:34] mpeel: please - go ahead
[21:34] AndrewRT: well, I dont know how many chapters have actually put bids in
[21:34] AndrewRT: so if only a few have, something as skeleton as this may actually get some money!
[21:34] mpeel: so far, one
[21:34] mpeel: see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Wikimedia_chapters/WMF_grants
[21:35] mpeel: personally, I dislike the idea of the seed grant - I'd much rather we had specific projects/goals to work towards, beyond dealing with paperwork.
[21:36] AndrewRT: that link didn't work for me
[21:36] mpeel: can you see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters/WMF_grants ?
[21:36] mpeel: if so, click on "See all subpages" at the bottom
[21:37] mpeel: alternatively, try http://tinyurl.com/cnp9n2
[21:37] AndrewRT: so just one then?
[21:37] AndrewRT: from Serbia
[21:37] mpeel: yup
[21:38] AndrewRT: so if we put it in they'd probably say yes
[21:38] KTC: i understand what you're saying mpeel, but i think it wouldn't hurt tho
[21:38] mpeel: I don't think that they have money that they have to give out via this process.
[21:38] mpeel: the next stage after this is to open it up to the community
[21:38] AndrewRT: no, but they've probably earmarked some
[21:39] AndrewRT: we can always use the money for a specific project
[21:39] cfp: well can't we talk to someone from the foundation and see if there's something they'd like us to be doing with the money if we got it
[21:39] mpeel: well, me and Tango have had an invitation by Frank Schulenburg to have a joint brainstorming session at the berlin meeting later this week.
[21:39] mpeel: I can raise this during that conversation/session, and see what they say
[21:39] AndrewRT: good point deadline is after Berlin
[21:39] AndrewRT: yes that sounds an excellent idea
[21:40] cfp: is it really berlin already. is that on the agenda for later?
[21:40] AndrewRT: hope so
[21:40] Warofdreams: at least the deadline is after Berlin; it's really unfortunate that it's before the AGM and the decision on Wikimania
[21:40] AndrewRT: if we meet again next Tuesday we can finalise anythign then
[21:41] mpeel: AndrewRT: you suggested a "London Loves Art - Wikipedia Loves Art" on the proposals page. Are you planning on expanding that / going ahead with that proposal?
[21:41] AndrewRT: not for WMF funding, no
[21:41] AndrewRT: I do want to go ahead with it, but it'll be in February 2010
[21:41] AndrewRT: we haven't finished sorting out this year's yet!
[21:42] AndrewRT: but still want it listed in the proposals if that's ok
[21:42] mpeel: pity - it's something that's been proven to work well, and could be helped with a bit of money.
[21:42] mpeel: (e.g. publicising)
[21:42] Warofdreams: cfp: I've added the Berlin meeting to the agenda
[21:42] AndrewRT: yeah there;s a thought
[21:42] mpeel: although given WLA's success, perhaps that isn't overly necessary...
[21:42] AndrewRT: thanks WarofDreams
[21:43] AndrewRT: how much did you have in mind?
[21:43] mpeel: it depends on what would be useful
[21:43] mpeel: would a banner display, or some sort of bus stop advertising, be useful?
[21:43] AndrewRT: £200 would be good to have as a budget for publicity
[21:43] AndrewRT: hmm there's an idea!
[21:43] mpeel: would a set of cheap-ish digital cameras that people could use be useful?
[21:44] mpeel: (figure ~ £50 each, you could try to get half a dozen)
[21:44] AndrewRT: V&A already provided those!
[21:44] mpeel: they did? great
[21:44] AndrewRT: yeah! Only problem with that is if you advertise the fact you just attract theives
[21:44] AndrewRT:
[21:45] mpeel: make sure that you get their credit card details etc., and you should be ok
[21:45] AndrewRT: who walk off with them
[21:45] mpeel: I spent a couple of weekends handing out GPS devices for people to draw large artworks with; we didn't lose a single one.
[21:45] Warofdreams: it'd be good to be able to target keen amateur photographers, who perhaps haven't thought about providing material under a free licence, rather than just anyone who passes a particular busstop
[21:45] AndrewRT: excellent!
[21:46] AndrewRT: well, V&A did that through their flickr connections
[21:46] Warofdreams: that's a good start, but not everyone's on flickr
[21:46] jsfarrar left the chat room. (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[21:46] AndrewRT: flickr seems good for attracting the keen photo people
[21:46] mpeel: we could put together a set of professional-looking leaflets to be handed out pretty cheaply.
[21:46] Warofdreams: and perhaps send them to photography clubs
[21:46] AndrewRT: cfp do you remember how much those leaflets cost?
[21:46] mpeel: exactly
[21:47] cfp: what leaflets? the handouts i printed out?
[21:47] AndrewRT: yep
[21:47] cfp: they were free, i have a generous printing allowance at my department
[21:48] AndrewRT: oh ok
[21:48] mpeel: were they simple sheets of black and white A4?
[21:48] AndrewRT: colour 2 sided
[21:48] mpeel: ah; very nice
[21:48] cfp: yeah. i don't think we have a colour printer in the department
[21:49] cfp: the colour ones were printed by the v&a
[21:49] AndrewRT: oh yeah I remember now
[21:49] KTC: can we move on ?
[21:49] Warofdreams: it can be very cheap, see e.g. http://www.advantagedigitalmedia.co.uk/flyer-printing-890/fsc-300gsm-flyers-37/a5-fsc-300gsmflyer-printing-55/1000-a5-220x150mm-colour-flyers-206.html
[21:49] mpeel: if you broaden things to include the Science Museum etc., then will they be as helpful as the V&A have been, do you think?
[21:49] Warofdreams: 1000 colour A5 flyers for £135
[21:49] AndrewRT: so, billboards, publicity, postage, cameras - what r we talking about £1,000?
[21:50] AndrewRT: mpeel - probably not - even Brooklyn weren't as generous and they organised it!
[21:50] mpeel: that seems to be a reasonable budget, if events will continue for a few years...
[21:50] cfp: to be honest i think the wmf would be kind of silly if they gave us that amount for wla...
[21:50] cfp: the returns aren't that great.
[21:50] AndrewRT: yeah I agree
[21:51] cfp: shall we move on and discuss this more on the mailing list or something
[21:51] AndrewRT: sure and on wiki
[21:51] mpeel: ok
[21:51] KTC: Chapter's selection of WMF board members (AT)
[21:52] AndrewRT: can we go in camera for this?
[21:52] KTC: um ok
[21:52] mpeel: ok
[21:52] KTC: /cs invite #wikimedia-uk-board-private
[21:52] mpeel: btw, Tango42 had an interest in pursuing this at the chapters meeting. It's a pity he isn't here...
[21:53] mpeel: I've requested access for him to the chapters wiki/mailing list as a WMUK representative; hope that's ok.
[21:53] mpeel: (I figure that doesn't need to be in camera)
[21:54] AndrewRT: sure
[22:05] Warofdreams: ...
[22:07] AndrewRT: ok back in the room
[22:07] AndrewRT: warofdreams - should we summarise for the minutes?
[22:08] Warofdreams: yes, good plan
[22:08] AndrewRT: say "Discuss chapters selection of WMF board members and agreed what message mpeel and Tango will take to Berlin on this"
[22:09] Warofdreams: OK, I'll use something very much along those lines.
[22:09] AndrewRT: newsletter?
[22:10] KTC: please
[22:10] Warofdreams: the newsletter went out; it was a few days late, but didn't miss any deadlines for getting information out
[22:10] cfp: can we up the pace a little... this meeting's dragging on rather.
[22:10] Warofdreams: thanks to everyone who contributed to it
[22:10] AndrewRT: cfp - ok
[22:10] AndrewRT: thanks WarofDreams
[22:10] You have set yourself away with "brb".
[22:10] AndrewRT: sorry I missed the deadline for Wikipedia Loves Art
[22:10] Warofdreams: suggest next newsletter shortly after announcement of location of Wikimania 2010
[22:10] AndrewRT: can we discuss teh April one?
[22:11] AndrewRT: when's that again?
[22:11] Warofdreams: "on or before April 16"
[22:12] AndrewRT: sounds good
[22:12] You have returned from away.
[22:12] AndrewRT: also tes in with the ballot papers being sent out and last push to get people to AGM
[22:12] AndrewRT: shall we come back to this next meeting?
[22:12] Warofdreams: exactly, gives us well over a week to do that
[22:12] Warofdreams: next meeting suits me
[22:12] mpeel: can someone put together the skeleton prior to the next meeting?
[22:12] Warofdreams: can do.
[22:12] AndrewRT: please
[22:12] KTC: Bank account (TH, MP) ?
[22:12] AndrewRT: I can if you want
[22:13] cfp: i haven't had a chance to phone the coop about other logins (or more precisely i forgot)
[22:13] mpeel: I received the paying in book today; thank you cfp.
[22:13] cfp: but i've posted the paying in book to mpeel at last and requested a second one for myself
[22:13] AndrewRT: ok c/f?
[22:14] cfp: balance is still 332
[22:14] cfp: c/f=carry forward? if so yet.
[22:14] cfp: on accounting software
[22:14] AndrewRT: sorry yes - carry forward to next meeting
[22:14] cfp: i've done a first draft of the accounts using gnucash
[22:14] AndrewRT: looks good!
[22:15] AndrewRT: thanks for that
[22:15] cfp: seems fine, andrew's maid some suggestions that i'm going to act on
[22:15] cfp: "made" even.
[22:15] cfp: any other comments on the draft accounts?
[22:16] AndrewRT: KTC? mpeel? warofdreams?
[22:16] Warofdreams: I must admit I haven't had a chance to look at them yet
[22:16] mpeel: I haven't managed to look at them, I'm afraid.
[22:16] cfp: ok no worries
[22:16] cfp: email me any comments you have
[22:16] Warofdreams: will do, thanks for prepping them
[22:16] KTC: i haven't looked it either, sorry
[22:16] cfp: i'll send round an updated one in the next week
[22:17] cfp: ok. any other general questions to me as treasurer? i think that's all that was going in my treasurer's report for the week
[22:17] mpeel: where do we stand with expenses?
[22:17] AndrewRT: none from me
[22:18] AndrewRT: writing cheques to be signed at AGM aren't we?
[22:18] AndrewRT: oh sorry I do have one thing
[22:18] AndrewRT: James Farrar, teller - we agreed to pay from his travel to AGM
[22:18] AndrewRT: I've bought the ticket on my credit card & I'll put a cliam in if that's ok
[22:19] AndrewRT: cfp?
[22:20] cfp: yup
[22:20] mpeel: with expenses, I meant wrt total amount, and whether they've all been submitted/received.
[22:20] cfp: on expenses the total figures up to now are in the accounts
[22:20] AndrewRT: oh i c
[22:20] AndrewRT: excellent thanks
[22:20] AndrewRT: shall we move on to Membership Drive?
[22:21] cfp: total is £203.15 incompatible encoding
[22:21] cfp: all i was expecting have been submitted
[22:21] cfp: assets (including assets receivable) are £150.37 incompatible encoding
[22:22] AndrewRT: so we're £50 short?
[22:22] cfp: noooo
[22:22] cfp: that's income - expenses
[22:22] AndrewRT: oh i c
[22:22] cfp: have i used the wrong term sorry
[22:22] cfp: we're +£150.37 incompatible encoding
[22:22] AndrewRT: so were £150 in the black!
[22:22] Tango42 joined the chat room.
[22:22] AndrewRT: £150 to spend on the AGM...
[22:22] cfp: yeah. though the agm may use much of that
[22:23] cfp: exactly
[22:23] mpeel: hopefully it won't use that much...
[22:23] AndrewRT: no indeed!
[22:23] cfp: anything else for me?
[22:23] AndrewRT: not from me
[22:24] Warofdreams: nor from me
[22:24] cfp: would anyone mind terribly if i logged off for 10 mins while i walked back from the pub
[22:24] AndrewRT: sure - shall we adjourn?
[22:24] cfp: i'm not convinced we'll be done by closing time
[22:24] KTC: ok
[22:24] mpeel: I need to go out for a bit longer than that at some point.
[22:25] AndrewRT: KTC?
[22:25] KTC: um, mpeel, how long ?
[22:26] mpeel: 20 mins or so
[22:26] cfp: i'll stay for a bit longer, shall we just plow throught it
[22:26] cfp: secretary's report
[22:26] AndrewRT: can we finish in 20 mins?
[22:26] KTC: wait
[22:26] KTC: plow through it yes
[22:26] cfp: or we could reconvene tomorrow evening
[22:26] KTC: but um, i think we haven't done #
[22:26] KTC: # Membership Drive (MP)Acknowledging Donations (TH)
[22:27] AndrewRT: i dont think there's much left
[22:27] AndrewRT: Membership Drive - page is created, working though suggestios
[22:27] mpeel: Membership drive - I haven't done much yet, will do when I get the time...
[22:27] AndrewRT: me too
[22:27] cfp: i've acknowledged donations with an email
[22:27] AndrewRT: thanks for that
[22:27] AndrewRT: Treas report is done
[22:27] AndrewRT: Secs report
[22:27] cfp: i'll give out receipts at the agm to people that attend and post any remaining after
[22:27] AndrewRT: I had an email from a research student about a "potential project"
[22:27] cfp: (i do need addresses for everyone though mpeel)
[22:28] mpeel: ok; please put an action on me to provide you with them.
[22:28] cfp: thanks mpeel.
[22:28] AndrewRT: shall i carry on?
[22:28] cfp: yes sorry
[22:28] Warofdreams: mpeel: will do.
[22:28] AndrewRT: no probs it was me interrupting you i think 
[22:28] AndrewRT: secs report
[22:29] AndrewRT: had one email from a research student about a "potential project"
[22:29] AndrewRT: he's going to get back to me
[22:29] AndrewRT: I'll keep you informed if/when he does
[22:29] AndrewRT: nothing else to report
[22:29] AndrewRT: 6. Membership Report (MP)
[22:30] mpeel: we now have 3 more members, bringing us up to 18 in total
[22:30] AndrewRT: excellent!
[22:30] mpeel: sadly, I have not received any additional applications since the last meeting.
[22:30] AndrewRT: LondonStatto's is in the post
[22:30] mpeel: I've drafted the standing order form, but will send it around via email for approval rather than raising it for discussion now.
[22:30] AndrewRT: mpeel - are you going to send them the AGM notices?
[22:30] mpeel: yes
[22:30] AndrewRT: cheers
[22:31] AndrewRT: ok
[22:31] mpeel: I've already done so for the three new members
[22:31] mpeel: any additional ones, I'll send them the notice and cc you in.
[22:31] AndrewRT: cheers
[22:31] Warofdreams: 7. Wikimania bid
[22:32] AndrewRT: how did it go on Sunday?
[22:32] cfp: we had the bid meeting. hard to know how well it went
[22:32] cfp: we were last, which perhaps explains why we weren't asked many questions
[22:32] AndrewRT: how were the others?
[22:32] cfp: we just have to wait and see i guesss
[22:32] AndrewRT: ok
[22:32] AndrewRT: anything needs discussing?
[22:32] Warofdreams: our answers were solid, the questions were easy
[22:32] cfp: i was doing maths at the time and not paying toooo much attention to the others.
[22:33] cfp: don't think so.
[22:33] Warofdreams: there's a new Q&A sub-page at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2010/Bids/Oxford/Q%26A
[22:33] cfp: good point.
[22:33] Warofdreams: so far, sj is the only one asking us questions
[22:34] mpeel: we need to split http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2010/Bids/Oxford/Team into a supporters and local team list (complete with what people are able to do)
[22:34] cfp: i spoke to sj on the phone over the summer, so he maybe has more faith in us than the other members of the jury
[22:35] cfp: yeah. seddon will be back soon and will be taking a lead i presume
[22:35] AndrewRT: shall we move on?
[22:35] cfp: anything else on wikimania
[22:35] cfp: yeah i think so
[22:35] mpeel: I've actually quickly split the list; if you're able to be on the local team, please move yourself to the appropriate section and add details of what you can do to help.
[22:35] cfp: nothing on the timetable i presume? nothing's changed
[22:35] cfp: ok
[22:36] AndrewRT: nope
[22:36] AndrewRT: it's all on track!
[22:36] Warofdreams: newsletter - initial draft of April issue is at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Newsletter/April2009
[22:36] AndrewRT: excellent
[22:36] mpeel: some changes have been made to the timeline, but I assume everyone's ok with them?
[22:36] Warofdreams: no need to work on it yet, but feel free to add sections if you think of anything
[22:36] cfp: ok
[22:37] KTC: 10. Chapter meeting (TH)
[22:37] mpeel: Chapter meeting I assume should be on me and TD, rather than TH?
[22:37] Warofdreams: changes to timeline seem entirely uncontroversial
[22:37] AndrewRT: yes - http://uk.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Timeline&diff=3009&oldid=2878
[22:37] AndrewRT: oh yes
[22:38] cfp: so should we be deciding in advance what you're saying etc
[22:38] AndrewRT: erm, yes I guess we should
[22:38] mpeel: could we arrange to have a seperate IRC discussion for this some time in the next few days?
[22:38] AndrewRT: nto a bad idea
[22:38] cfp: at least on issues on which you're representing the legal body not the community
[22:38] cfp: yeah good idea
[22:38] mpeel: it will have to be either tomorrow or wednesday night
[22:39] AndrewRT: woudl you mind coming up with a list of issues we need to express an opnion on?
[22:39] mpeel: and both me and tango go to berlin on thursday morning
[22:39] cfp: could you email round the agenda for the berlin meet in advance of our meeting to discuss it
[22:39] mpeel: ok; I'll see what I can come up with (and assume Tango42 will help)
[22:39] AndrewRT: thanks
[22:39] mpeel: when's the best evening for people? Tuesday or Wednesday?
[22:39] cfp: i can do either
[22:39] AndrewRT: i can do either
[22:39] KTC: meeting? tomorrow
[22:40] AndrewRT: warofdreams?
[22:40] Warofdreams: should be ok for either
[22:40] cfp: tuesday's marginally better
[22:40] AndrewRT: gues it's Tuesday then
[22:40] mpeel: let's go for tomorrow, then, 8.30pm BST
[22:40] AndrewRT: BST not GMT?
[22:40] AndrewRT: :
[22:40] AndrewRT:
[22:40] KTC:
[22:40] mpeel: definitely BST. 
[22:41] KTC: AOCB ? Phorm (MP)
[22:41] mpeel: if it's ok with everyone, I'll send around an email about this rather than discussing now.
[22:41] AndrewRT: ok sure
[22:41] KTC: ok
[22:42] KTC: anything else ?
[22:42] AndrewRT: erm one thing
[22:42] AndrewRT: next meeting can we discuss Board report to teh AGM
[22:42] AndrewRT: have a think what kind of thing we should do
[22:42] AndrewRT: thanks
[22:42] mpeel: that's a good point/idea.
[22:43] Warofdreams: great, I'll minute that
[22:43] AndrewRT: thats it from me
[22:43] Warofdreams: do we want to set the date of the next normal meeting now, or tomorrow?
[22:43] AndrewRT: coudl we do it now?
[22:43] AndrewRT: means tomorrow is just brief
[22:44] KTC: 6, 7, 13, 14 ?
[22:44] mpeel: 6th or 7th would be fine by me
[22:44] AndrewRT: Suggest 7 so we're in time for WMF funds
[22:44] Warofdreams: I don't believe I can do 6th
[22:44] Warofdreams: 7th should be fine
[22:44] cfp: not the 13th, otherwise i don't mind
[22:44] KTC: 7th it is then
[22:45] AndrewRT: cheers - c you all tomorrow then
[22:45] KTC: right, that's it? see everyon um tomorrow 
[22:45] mpeel: we won't have much time during / after the meeting to sort out any proposals for WMF funds
[22:45] mpeel: so as much work should be done on them beforehand.
[22:45] Warofdreams: see you all then
[22:45] AndrewRT: do indeed - good point
[22:46] cfp: ok, see you all tomorrow then
[22:46] KTC left the chat room. ("Leaving")
[22:46] AndrewRT: bye all
[22:46] mpeel: g'night
[22:46] AndrewRT left the chat room. ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]")
[22:47] cfp left the chat room.
[22:48] Warofdreams: bye

#wikimedia-uk

[20:47] LondonStatto: No, you don't.
[20:47] LondonStatto: lol
[20:47] LondonStatto: The second includes the first, so that's the proper order
[20:48] J_Milburn left the chat room. (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[20:48] KTC: yes, sorry
[20:48] LondonStatto: if the first is passed, the second vote effectively becomes "to amend"
[20:48] J_Milburn joined the chat room.
[20:51] mpeel: Microsoft's (just?) announced that Encarta is being canceled.
[20:52] Warofdreams: apparently, we did it http://www.techflash.com/Wikipedia_kills_Encarta_and_Microsoft_finally_pronounces_it_dead_42142642.html
[20:52] AndrewRT: wow
[20:52] KTC: i'm reading that now 
[20:52] LondonStatto: pwned 
[20:53] mpeel:
[20:54] J_Milburn left the chat room. (Success)
[20:54] J_Milburn joined the chat room.
[21:24] jsfarrar joined the chat room.
[21:27] jsfarrar: who's the MP?
[21:27] AndrewRT: our Mp is Nick Palmer
[21:27] jsfarrar: I hoped that would be the answer
[21:27] jsfarrar: I know him online, so if he's recalcitrant I can LART him
[21:28] AndrewRT: hehe
[21:28] mpeel: LART?
[21:28] KTC: what does MP stand for?...
[21:28] AndrewRT: member of parliament
[21:28] KTC: oops lol
[21:31] LondonStatto left the chat room. (Connection timed out)
[21:46] jsfarrar left the chat room. (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[22:06] cfp: where's tango tonight
[22:06] cfp: we haven't had the usual shouts of CABAL...
[22:06] AndrewRT: i thought something was missing 
[22:10] You have set yourself away with "brb".
[22:12] You have returned from away.
[22:21] AndrewRT: isn't it quiet without Tango 
[22:22] KTC:
[22:22] Tango42 joined the chat room.
[22:23] AndrewRT: [22:21]<AndrewRT>isn't it quiet without Tango 
[22:23] Tango42: lol
[22:23] Tango42: was out to dinner, sorry!
[22:23] AndrewRT: right on cue!
[22:23] KTC: lol
[22:23] Tango42: was there something you wanted me for, or just my fascinating conversation?
[22:23] AndrewRT: we missed your shouts of "CABAL"
[22:24] Tango42: The cabal was at work while I wasn't here?
[22:24] AndrewRT: yep
[22:24] Tango42: oh dear...
[22:24] Tango42: did anyone stand in for me?
[22:24] AndrewRT: NO!
[22:24] AndrewRT: very disappointed....
[22:25] Tango42: that's terrible...
[22:25] Tango42: I should reconsider standing for the board if there won't be anyone to replace me on the outside...
[22:26] AndrewRT: we were talking about the chapters selected seats
[22:26] Tango42: so mpeel tells me, he's sending me logs
[22:26] AndrewRT: great
[22:27] Tango42: anything else interesting happened without me?
[22:28] Warofdreams: oh, yes, far more interesting things than happen with you here 
[22:28] KTC: i think u can shout CABAL later 
[22:29] Tango42: I'll be alert for my oportunity!
[22:29] AndrewRT: give u a clue 11.1
[22:29] KTC: 12.1 ?
[22:30] AndrewRT: not any mroe it isnt' 
[22:30] AndrewRT: http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-03-30/Agenda
[22:30] KTC: i see 
[22:31] Tango42: is the chair not keeping up with the agenda? dear me... you really can't cope with me!#
[22:31] KTC: it's not my fault andrew changed it mid-meeting without telling me 
[22:31] AndrewRT: yeah my fault 
[22:31] AndrewRT: ow do you do blushing on this?
[22:32] KTC:
[22:34] AndrewRT: =^_^=
[22:35] Tango42: you need stricter discipline, KTC - make him write "I will not usurp the chair" 5000 times
[22:35] KTC: have you been spending the last couple of minutes looking for the right emoticon? 
[22:35] Tango42: (without copy and paste!)
[22:35] AndrewRT: hehe
[22:35] AndrewRT: it didnt' even work!
[22:36] AndrewRT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emoticons#Common_examples
[22:36] AndrewRT: wikipedia's rubbish!!
[22:36] AndrewRT:
[22:36] Tango42:
[22:36] Tango42: chatzilla's emoticon for shock is rubbish... it looks more like laughter...
[22:36] KTC: Tango42, http://www.jeffpalm.com/fox/fox.jpg ?
[22:37] Tango42: hmmm... not really in the spirit of the thing...
[22:39] Warofdreams: Tango: is that a fair assumption?
[22:40] Tango42: is what? me helping with working out what to say at the chapter meeting?
[22:40] mpeel: Tango42: is tomorrow evening ok with you for an irc discussion on the chapters meeting?
[22:40] Tango42: yes. I said we needed to have a discussion on that ages ago...
[22:40] Tango42: yeah, no prob
[22:40] AndrewRT: yes you did
[22:41] AndrewRT: in retrospect I was a bit hasty in saying it wasn't needed!
[22:41] Tango42: you disagreed with me, ergo, you were wrong!
[22:41] AndrewRT: hehe