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[20:32] AndrewRT: hi all
[20:32] cfp: heya
[20:32] AndrewRT: sorry I'm late
[20:32] AndrewRT: have u started?
[20:32] cfp: shall we get going as wod said he was going to be late
[20:32] cfp: you're only 2 mins late...
[20:32] KTC: hi
[20:32] KTC: okay
[20:33] KTC: um...
[20:33] KTC: &
[20:33] AndrewRT: agenda looks good
[20:34] AndrewRT: can I give my apologies for leaving early
[20:34] AndrewRT: afraid I have to leave at 10:30 latest
[20:34] KTC: let's try and finish by then...
[20:34] AndrewRT: minutes?
[20:34] KTC: mpeel, u around ?
[20:35] cfp: he was 20 mins ago
[20:35] mpeel: yes
[20:35] cfp: minutes look fine
[20:35] mpeel: just checking minutes...
[20:35] AndrewRT: look ok to me! 
[20:36] mpeel: looks fine
[20:36] AndrewRT: what's the plan for the meeting on 31st?
[20:36] AndrewRT: i.e. should we do minutes?
[20:37] KTC: *shrug*
[20:37] mpeel: I don't think we decided anything then, did we, so minutes aren't needed?
[20:37] cfp: perhaps brief ones. not much was really decided if i recall
[20:37] mpeel: it was more an informal meeting than a formal one.
[20:37] AndrewRT: is there anything we need to minute?
[20:38] AndrewRT: or perhaps a general one liner?
[20:38] KTC: a couple of line should be fine
[20:39] KTC: um, reports?
[20:39] KTC: um, nope
[20:39] KTC: matters arising
[20:40] KTC: AGM - Booking location
[20:40] KTC: AndrewRT
[20:40] AndrewRT: ACTION: AT to contact Sarah.
[20:40] AndrewRT: Right, I emailed her
[20:40] AndrewRT: she came back and said oops, students union only opens at 3pm
[20:40] AndrewRT: I've looked into places nearby
[20:41] AndrewRT: and there is a convenient bar just opposite - kro-bar
[20:41] AndrewRT: they have a nice few function rooms that are available that day - I emailed round the link
[20:41] mpeel: I've been in those rooms - they aren't ideal, but should suffice
[20:41] mpeel: so long as we can rearrange the furniture.
[20:41] AndrewRT: I remember going there in my student days, which admitedly was a while ago!...
[20:42] AndrewRT: I spoke to them - yes we can
[20:42] AndrewRT: they have tables, chairs, sofas etc which can be moved around as we want
[20:42] mpeel: I can call around there tomorrow morning and take photos, if we want.
[20:42] AndrewRT: that would be really useful if you could
[20:42] cfp: mpeel you said something about getting rooms in the uni?
[20:42] mpeel: that's a possibility; is it worth me looking into?
[20:43] mpeel: there are lots of seminar and lecture rooms around; it's just a case of finding out whether we can get into one at the weekend.
[20:43] cfp: they sound like they might be more suitable, i don't know.
[20:44] mpeel: I'll make enquiries, and will report back if I find anything useful.
[20:44] mpeel: AndrewRT: is the room in Kro booked?
[20:44] AndrewRT: tentatively
[20:44] AndrewRT: need to confirm
[20:44] mpeel: could you elaborate, please?
[20:45] CraigSpurrier joined the chat room.
[20:45] AndrewRT: sorry - I've said I'll get back to them to confirm
[20:45] mpeel: ok
[20:45] AndrewRT: see what you guys say first
[20:46] LondonStatto left the chat room. (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[20:46] mpeel: shall we say that a room should be booked by Friday? I'll email around anything that I find before then, and we can decide by email if we want to go with that rather than Kro.
[20:46] cfp: k
[20:46] AndrewRT: that sounds good to me
[20:46] mpeel: shall we move on?
[20:46] AndrewRT: ok KTC?
[20:46] mpeel: (we should keep the meeting moving fairly quickly, as we have a lot to cover...)
[20:46] AndrewRT: AGM - Resolutions
[20:47] AndrewRT: The revised one went out
[20:47] AndrewRT: hope you're all happy with that
[20:47] AndrewRT: AGM - Speakers
[20:47] AndrewRT: Seddon confirmed
[20:47] AndrewRT: to speak on Wikimania
[20:47] KTC: yeah, just keep going AndrewRT  
[20:47] AndrewRT: cheers!
[20:47] AndrewRT: Andrew's getting back to me
[20:48] AndrewRT: re Wikimedia for Schools
[20:48] mpeel: this is Andrew Cates?
[20:48] AndrewRT: yes
[20:48] AndrewRT: last mtg I spoke about Open Rights Group
[20:49] AndrewRT: Looking back on the emails I discovered that should have been Open Knowledge Foundation
[20:49] AndrewRT: I've emailed them - no response as yet
[20:49] AndrewRT: will follow up with OKFN and AC if I haven't heard back tomorrow
[20:49] AndrewRT: are there any other speakers we want?
[20:50] mpeel: will the BBC be speaking?
[20:50] AndrewRT: yes - that's confirmed
[20:50] AndrewRT: I've emailed them to agree the wording for an announcement to group
[20:50] mpeel: great
[20:50] AndrewRT: they haven't got back to me - I'll chase that tomorrow
[20:51] AndrewRT: don't want to say the wrong thing! 
[20:51] mpeel: is it worth trying to get in touch with CC-UK, and asking them if they want to participate?
[20:51] AndrewRT: ok with speakers?
[20:51] mpeel: (CC-UK == Creative Commons UK)
[20:51] AndrewRT: yeah CC-UK is a great idea
[20:51] AndrewRT: I can do that tomorrow if you want?
[20:52] mpeel: please
[20:52] mpeel: although their website seems to be dead atm. 
[20:52] AndrewRT: shall I go on to AGM - Notice?
[20:52] mpeel: ok
[20:52] cfp: yeah carry on
[20:53] AndrewRT: haven't been any yet
[20:53] cfp: we'll stop you if necessary
[20:53] AndrewRT: (new members that is)
[20:53] AndrewRT: Website - Bugs - MP?
[20:53] mpeel: no movement; will nag shortly.
[20:54] mpeel: I talked to Eric Moller about the domains during the chapters meeting
[20:54] mpeel: he confirmed that we're fine to have the wikimedia.[org/co].uk addresses
[20:54] AndrewRT: excellent!
[20:54] mpeel: he's emailed James Forrester to say this
[20:54] mpeel: I'm waiting to heard back from him now.
[20:54] mpeel: we also discussed the wikipedia addresses in the UK
[20:54] AndrewRT: even better!
[20:55] mpeel: his inclination is for the WMF to hold them directly, if possible, or otherwise have someone hold them for them.
[20:55] mpeel: I volunteered to investigate their current status, and report back to him
[20:55] AndrewRT: did you mention to James about us paying for the renewal?
[20:55] mpeel: I haven't yet talked to James
[20:55] mpeel: I will mention that when I do.
[20:55] mpeel: please action me to contact James, and to investigate the UK wikipedia domains.
[20:56] AndrewRT: cheers
[20:56] AndrewRT: HMRC charity status - AT
[20:56] AndrewRT: I haven't heard back from my MP
[20:56] AndrewRT: it's been over a fortnight now
[20:56] AndrewRT: shoudl I chase?
[20:56] KTC: a gentle reminder would be good yeah
[20:56] mpeel: I'm not sure
[20:57] mpeel: gentle reminder should be fine
[20:57] AndrewRT: how long should we leave mpeel?
[20:57] mpeel: was unsure as I don't know how long we were expecting him to respond by...
[20:57] mpeel: AndrewRT: I don't know
[20:57] AndrewRT: right I'll do that then
[20:57] AndrewRT: Wikimania press releases - havent' yet spoken to Seddon
[20:58] AndrewRT: sorry it's there on my list just not  at the top!
[20:58] AndrewRT: hopefully he'll be here later?
[20:58] mpeel: hopefully...
[20:59] AndrewRT: Chapter grants - MP & TD have some updates?
[20:59] mpeel: I went to a talk about this at the chapters meeting
[20:59] mpeel: we have a 2 week extension on this
[20:59] Dereckson joined the chat room.
[20:59] AndrewRT: ah excellent
[20:59] AndrewRT: do you mind if we defer till next meeting then?
[20:59] AndrewRT: get AGM stuff out the way...
[21:00] mpeel: hold on for a min, please...
[21:00] mpeel: just looking for some photos I took of slides
[21:00] AndrewRT: sure
[21:00] mpeel: Erik gave a number of examples of what could be applied for
[21:01] CraigSpurrier_aw joined the chat room.
[21:01] mpeel: these ranged from outreach events to techincal work to organizational support
[21:01] CraigSpurrier left the chat room.
[21:01] AndrewRT: sounds promising
[21:01] mpeel: the latter included "building your fundraising database", "attending training seminars", "Travelling to Wikimedia meetings", "Obtaining legal advice", "obtaining equipment, e.g. projector", "short term hiring"
[21:02] mpeel: the outreach events were "teaching a certain target audience how to contribute", "working with educators on responsible use of and participation in Wikimedia projects" and "developing outreach materials (brochures etc.)
[21:02] AndrewRT: "Obtaining legal advice" ... interesting
[21:02] mpeel: technical work was "MediaWiki extension development" and "Other relevant open source ... <head is in the way>"
[21:03] Seddon joined the chat room.
[21:03] mpeel: I think we should definitely put in for something
[21:03] mpeel: there's a number of additional applications put in now; 5-6 were filed during the talk...
[21:03] AndrewRT: ah
[21:04] AndrewRT: mpeel - do we want to discuss this tonight or next week?
[21:04] mpeel: this depends - do we want to put in any proposals for non-project things?
[21:05] mpeel: it would be good to start working on proposals asap...
[21:05] AndrewRT: what did you have in mind?
[21:05] mpeel: I'm not sure
[21:05] mpeel: the overwhelming feeling that I got from the meeting is that we need to start thinking big
[21:06] mpeel: this is the ideal place to start
[21:06] mpeel: ok, let's leave this until the next meeting, but if anyone thinks of anything please post it on the project proposals page...
[21:06] AndrewRT: cheers
[21:07] mpeel: Chapter's selection of WMF board members?
[21:07] mpeel: or do we want to discuss that later?
[21:07] AndrewRT: it's on the agenda later isn't it?
[21:07] KTC: move on
[21:08] AndrewRT: Bank account
[21:08] AndrewRT: TH to contact Co-op about additional log-ins for account
[21:08] cfp: yeah i phoned them up
[21:08] cfp: i just have to write a letter
[21:08] cfp: the letter has to be signed as a cheque would be
[21:08] cfp: e.g. by andrew and i i think
[21:08] cfp: and we can only get additional logins for current signatories
[21:09] mpeel: who are the current signatories?
[21:09] cfp: andrew and i unless i misremember
[21:09] AndrewRT: shall we get it written and sign at the AGM?
[21:09] cfp: so you'd have to apply to become a signatory first
[21:09] AndrewRT: we can liase after if you want
[21:10] mpeel: let's leave this until the in-person board meeting after the AGM
[21:10] cfp: potentially the signatories will be changing after in any case, so it might make sense to defer, though i guess i could bring along a few letters iwth names left blank
[21:10] cfp: k
[21:10] mpeel: that would seem to be the logical time to deal with this.
[21:10] AndrewRT: yes good point
[21:11] AndrewRT: ok - lets follow up after then
[21:11] AndrewRT: at least we know what to do!
[21:11] AndrewRT: thanks for lookign into this cfp
[21:11] cfp: k
[21:12] KTC: happy with Accounts ?
[21:12] AndrewRT: Accounting software - you happy with what you have now cfp?
[21:12] cfp: yup happy to stick with gnucash. i haven't heard anything back from my bug request
[21:12] cfp: but will fix it myself when i get time.
[21:13] cfp: (allowing negative tax rates for gift aid)
[21:13] AndrewRT:
[21:13] KTC: Membership Drive
[21:13] AndrewRT: could we put this on the agenda for later?
[21:14] AndrewRT: we could do with having a proper brainstorm on ideas
[21:14] AndrewRT: and actions for doing this
[21:14] mpeel: let's come back to this in the membership report section...
[21:14] KTC: receipts
[21:14] AndrewRT: cfp?
[21:15] AndrewRT: I got one so I guess they've all been sent out 
[21:15] jsfarrar left the chat room.
[21:15] AndrewRT: cfp?
[21:15] cfp: no i haven't sent out any receipts
[21:16] cfp: i sent out thanks emails
[21:16] cfp: i'm handing out receipts at the agm to those that are there
[21:16] cfp: and only posting the remainder
[21:16] AndrewRT: oh sorry my misreading
[21:16] AndrewRT: ok
[21:16] AndrewRT: have you got the addressed you needed for that?
[21:16] mpeel: which receipts are these?
[21:16] mpeel: for donations & membership?
[21:16] AndrewRT: TH to give receipts in person to donors who attend the AGM, and post remaining receipts. MP to pass addresses of donors to TH.
[21:16] cfp: yeah for both
[21:16] mpeel: ty
[21:16] mpeel: I sent cfp the list of addresses eariler this evening
[21:17] cfp: mp's given me the addresses
[21:17] cfp: yeah thanks again
[21:17] AndrewRT: Phorm - MP to send e-mail to board regarding Phorm.
[21:17] mpeel: thanks for reminding me.. 
[21:17] mpeel: ... ditto for that.
[21:17] mpeel: I'd like to talk about this in camera; return to during the membership report section?
[21:17] AndrewRT: sure
[21:17] mpeel: (I also have in camera things to talk about then)
[21:17] AndrewRT: sure
[21:17] AndrewRT: that's all the actions arising
[21:18] AndrewRT: ok to go on to Treasurers Report?
[21:18] KTC: reports then 
[21:18] cfp: balance still stands at 332
[21:18] cfp: nothing else to report
[21:18] AndrewRT: cheers
[21:18] AndrewRT: From me:
[21:18] AndrewRT: Was contacted by two people interested in standing for the Board
[21:19] AndrewRT: not sure whether this was in "official" capacity as secy or in personal capacity!
[21:19] AndrewRT: I talked them through the process - neither were members but both agreed to join
[21:19] AndrewRT: I decided to nominate them myself to the Board
[21:20] mpeel: AndrewRT: are these the two that I queried with James?
[21:20] AndrewRT: mpeel - yes
[21:20] AndrewRT: has he got back to you on that?
[21:20] mpeel: yes
[21:20] mpeel: do they need to be members before they can be on the board?
[21:20] AndrewRT: hmmm
[21:21] AndrewRT: Articles of Association are a bit unclear on that one
[21:21] KTC: depends on one's interpretation...
[21:21] AndrewRT: I think it would be a lot better if all Board members were members
[21:21] mpeel: hopefully I'll receive membership applications from them, then...
[21:21] AndrewRT: All three non-member candidates have said they'll apply
[21:22] KTC: common sense say yes
[21:22] KTC: next?
[21:22] AndrewRT: that's it from me
[21:23] AndrewRT: Membership (MP)?
[21:23] mpeel: right, can we go in camera fora minute?
[21:23] AndrewRT: sure
[21:24] KTC: cfp ?
[21:24] KTC: oh, ur there 
[21:24] cfp: sorry
[21:34] KTC: hello again 
[21:34] AndrewRT: for the minutes, Board approved three new members (total now 21) subject to payment clearing
[21:35] AndrewRT: MP anything else on membership report?
[21:35] mpeel: yes, several...
[21:35] AndrewRT:
[21:35] mpeel: next thing: updated application form, plus standing order form
[21:35] mpeel: at
[21:35] mpeel:
[21:35] mpeel:
[21:36] mpeel: any comments / suggestions for improvement / objections?
[21:36] AndrewRT: can you talk us through the diffs
[21:36] AndrewRT: i see youve added a bank transfer item - excellent!
[21:36] mpeel: standing order form is all new
[21:37] mpeel: membership application form adds options for payment
[21:37] AndrewRT: aren't standing orders sent to their bank?
[21:37] cfp: they look good.
[21:37] mpeel: my understanding was that they should be sent to us, and then we pass them onto the bank
[21:37] mpeel: but I need to investigate that...
[21:38] cfp: i imagine either's fine
[21:38] AndrewRT: onto which bank - our bank or the member's?
[21:38] KTC: member ?
[21:38] cfp: their bank
[21:38] cfp: it might be easier for them to deal with their own bank
[21:38] AndrewRT: direct bank transfer - how will they know our account details?
[21:38] mpeel: the downside with it not coming by us is that we'd need to communicate the reference number to them before they can hand in the form.
[21:39] mpeel: I'll email them upon approval of the application
[21:39] AndrewRT: should we say that on the form?
[21:39] cfp: well don't they have to send something to us first in order to sign up as a member, then we email them a ref number and the standing order form to print out
[21:39] mpeel: ok, line changed to "I wish to pay by direct bank transfer (details will be sent after approval of your application)"
[21:40] mpeel: cfp: OK, that makes sense
[21:40] mpeel: I can pre-fill part of the form in that case
[21:40] cfp: if it's no hassle for you
[21:41] mpeel: it will be slightly, but I can cope with that until the volume of membership applications increases...
[21:41] AndrewRT: )
[21:41] AndrewRT:
[21:41] mpeel: it's less hastle then going to the bank... 
[21:41] mpeel: options for paying are now:
[21:41] mpeel: I enclose a cheque made payable to “Wiki UK Limited”
[21:41] mpeel: I wish to pay by standing order (details will be sent after approval of your application)
[21:41] mpeel: I wish to pay by direct bank transfer (details will be sent after approval of your application)
[21:41] mpeel: are those OK?
[21:41] mpeel: do we want to add any more?
[21:41] AndrewRT: yeah that looks good
[21:42] KTC: people paying by cash at the AGM ?
[21:42] AndrewRT: yeah good point
[21:43] mpeel: I'm not sure we want to add the option of paying in cash onto the form...
[21:43] mpeel: considering it has a wider use than just the AGM
[21:43] AndrewRT: yeah makes sense
[21:43] AndrewRT: you can always mention that to people at the AGM
[21:43] AndrewRT: if they want to pay by cash
[21:43] mpeel: we could either make a special form for joining at the AGM, with a reduced number of options, or just modify the form by hand as needed.
[21:44] KTC: ok
[21:44] mpeel: btw, the other modification to the form was the re-ordering of the donation amounts
[21:44] mpeel: which was a suggestion in passing from Rand during the conference
[21:44] AndrewRT: interesting!
[21:44] mpeel: it makes sense psychologically, I think...
[21:45] AndrewRT: thanks for making these changes mpeel
[21:45] mpeel: (we had a more general discussion here, which I'll come back to later)
[21:45] AndrewRT: I'm happy with all of them
[21:45] mpeel: KTC, cfp?
[21:45] cfp: sound good
[21:45] cfp: thanks mpeel
[21:46] KTC:
[21:47] AndrewRT: did you have something else on membership?
[21:47] KTC: what's next?
[21:47] cfp: wikimania bid?
[21:47] mpeel: do we want to discuss membership drive now, or later?
[21:48] AndrewRT: I'd prefer 5 minutes now
[21:48] AndrewRT: yes to get some ideas
[21:48] AndrewRT: this is a good time to be getting members involved!
[21:48] AndrewRT: KTC, cfp, mpeel is that ok or would you prefer later?
[21:49] mpeel: I'm happy either way, so long as we do discuss it...
[21:49] cfp: don't mind
[21:49] KTC: fine, let's go AndrewRT
[21:49] AndrewRT: some ideas are here:
[21:50] AndrewRT: I think we need to contact as many people as possible in the next week to invite them to join
[21:50] mpeel: "Article in Signpost" - it would be good to see if we can get something about the AGM into the signpost.
[21:50] AndrewRT: Can someone do a template message for en.wp?
[21:50] mpeel: I'll put something together for that
[21:51] AndrewRT: thanks
[21:51] mpeel: will distribute to wikiprojects after everyone's had chance to look at it
[21:51] mpeel: is there anywhere else it should be distributed on en.wp?
[21:51] AndrewRT: yeah wikiprojects - I'll add that
[21:51] AndrewRT: and en-wiki email list
[21:51] AndrewRT: internal email list?
[21:52] mpeel: why internal?
[21:52] cfp: doesn't hurt to try as many places as possible, though i guess internal is a bit bizarre
[21:52] mpeel: en-wiki makes sense
[21:52] AndrewRT: internal-l - might have a few dedicates insiders who are interested in joining
[21:53] AndrewRT: who happen to live in UK
[21:53] mpeel: I think they already know about the chapter...
[21:53] AndrewRT: yeah I suppose
[21:53] AndrewRT: where do our potential members hand out?
[21:53] AndrewRT: _hang_ out?
[21:53] mpeel: online or offline?
[21:53] AndrewRT: online i was thinking
[21:54] mpeel: wikiprojects are the obvious place
[21:54] AndrewRT: what other orgs are they part of?
[21:54] AndrewRT: CC-UK? ORG?
[21:54] mpeel: not sure
[21:54] mpeel: CC-UK would definitely be someone to work with as closely as possible
[21:54] AndrewRT: problwm with wikiprojects is they're not necessarily based on geography
[21:55] mpeel: the ones focussing on geography generally are
[21:55] AndrewRT: yes!
[21:55] mpeel: e.g. Wikiproject Greater Manchester
[21:55] mpeel: those were the ones I was thinking about contacting
[21:55] AndrewRT: yeah was just thiking that
[21:55] AndrewRT: good point
[21:55] cfp: we produced a big list of uk active wikipedians to spam a while back
[21:55] AndrewRT: could also send to wikiproject organisers personally
[21:55] AndrewRT: excellent - any idea where that is?
[21:56] mpeel: cfp: we did? is that still around?
[21:56] cfp: and there was someone around who had an AWB account who was going to do it
[21:56] cfp: i'll find the list
[21:56] cfp: one sec
[21:56] mpeel: I have AWB...
[21:56] AndrewRT: even better!!
[21:57] cfp: the sorted list was here
[21:57] cfp:
[21:57] cfp: top of the list is those editing most according to some metric i constructed
[21:58] cfp: the original list came from those involved in uk wiki projects/having uk user boxes etc
[21:58] AndrewRT: great!
[21:59] AndrewRT: well that's my five minutes - thanks for that, I think it was worthwhile!
[21:59] AndrewRT: shall we move on or are there other ideas?
[22:00] KTC: let's move on, else we'll be here forever. any new idea, do bring it up on the wiki tho
[22:00] mpeel: I'm talking to James atm, so my attention's a bit split, sorry...
[22:00] AndrewRT: k
[22:00] AndrewRT: Wikimania - Seddon said nothing to discuss
[22:00] AndrewRT: Timetable Review (All)
[22:01] AndrewRT: all seems on track!
[22:01] AndrewRT: "Ballot papers issued" may even be earlier than though 
[22:01] AndrewRT:
[22:01] AndrewRT: Newsletter (MC) - finalise next time?
[22:02] AndrewRT: out 16th April as agreed at last meeting
[22:02] AndrewRT: Berlin chapters meeting (TD, MP) ??
[22:02] KTC: yeah, i want to move onto the speciifc items on the agenda
[22:02] AndrewRT: Tango42 to voice?
[22:03] KTC: channel is not moderated
[22:03] KTC: Tango42 ?
[22:03] AndrewRT: Tango42, mpeel you want to report back on how Berlin meetign went?
[22:03] Tango42: Hello, yues
[22:04] mpeel: brief overview: meeting was amazing, lots of discussions happened, people expect a lot from the UK chapter.
[22:04] Tango42: Yes, lot's of excitment at finally having a UK chapter
[22:04] AndrewRT: how did our presentation go down?
[22:04] mpeel: we got several cheers upon mention that we finally have a bank account
[22:04] AndrewRT:
[22:05] mpeel: even though we were the last to present, and everyone wanted to go for food, I think it went well...
[22:05] Tango42: The presentations were very rushed - scheduling didn't quite work as planned and several chapters weren't very used to giving presentations and didn't time themselves well
[22:06] mpeel: Tango42: what was your view of the WMUK presentation? Mine's a little biased, seeing as I gave it...
[22:06] AndrewRT: sounds like it was well received
[22:06] Tango42: I thought you did a great job. It wasn't really a subject that gets much reaction, though.
[22:06] Tango42: it was just dry facts
[22:06] mpeel: thanks
[22:07] AndrewRT: did you get any good ideas from other chapters about what we can do in the next year?
[22:07] mpeel: schedule for the meeting is at - shall we summarise each session?
[22:07] AndrewRT: yeah sure
[22:07] AndrewRT: not too long tho! I need to go in 20 mins 
[22:08] AndrewRT: mpeel?
[22:08] mpeel: just trying to work out how much I can actually say publically...
[22:09] AndrewRT: shall we go in camera?
[22:09] Tango42: i think the big thing we need to work on is basic outreach - we need to put together some leaflets and flyers and things and then go places where we can hand them out (trade shows, lectures, schools, wikipedia academies, etc.)
[22:09] AndrewRT: ok
[22:09] Tango42: I don't think we need to go into much detail at the moment, so confidentiality probably isn't an issue
[22:09] AndrewRT: outreach to do what? get members?
[22:09] Tango42: no, to teach people about the projects
[22:09] AndrewRT: to encourage them to become editors?
[22:10] Tango42: how to use them and how to contribute to them, but mostly the latter (people do the former already!)
[22:10] mpeel: lots of people need to learn how to use wikipedia
[22:10] warofdreams joined the chat room.
[22:10] mpeel: i.e. what to trust, and what not to trust
[22:10] mpeel: especially schoolkids
[22:10] AndrewRT: that links it with what the BBC will be talking about at the AGM - a wikipedia editing club
[22:10] Tango42: indeed
[22:11] AndrewRT: WMUk can support things like that!
[22:11] AndrewRT: become a local resource
[22:11] Tango42: i think going into schools is a really important thing we can do
[22:11] mpeel: I'm not sure whether trade shows are the best approach, but the other three are good ideas.
[22:11] Tango42: and working with educators at all levels
[22:11] AndrewRT: Mickey hi!
[22:11] Warofdreams: hi!
[22:11] mpeel: we should definitely get started with schools asap...
[22:11] cfp: schools/universities etc sound like a good idea
[22:11] Warofdreams: sorry I'm late
[22:11] Tango42: I remember someone mentioning going to trade shows, I don't remember what trades!
[22:11] AndrewRT: mpeel and Tango42 are just reporting back from Berlin
[22:11] mpeel: was that OKCon?
[22:12] AndrewRT: talking about ideas they got for things we can do
[22:12] mpeel: or something mentioned at the meeting?
[22:12] Tango42: No - someone at the meeting
[22:12] mpeel: ok
[22:12] Tango42: one of the chapters mentioned it as something they've done and have planned for the future
[22:13] mpeel: making content available - we had several talks from Mathias (WMDE, behind bundesarchiv photo release) and Liam (WMAU, has also been talking to museums) about how to interact with cultural institutions
[22:13] AndrewRT: sorry hwat are "wikipedia academies"?
[22:13] AndrewRT: (from before)
[22:13] mpeel: sort of like conferences and workshops, I guess, which bring people together to learn about wikipedia
[22:13] AndrewRT: organised by us or by others?
[22:14] mpeel: see
[22:14] mpeel: it's something we'd organize
[22:14] Tango42: A Wikipedia Academy is an event where people come to learn how to contribute to Wikipedia
[22:14] mpeel: a number of chapters have done this so far
[22:14] AndrewRT: sounds excellent
[22:14] mpeel: we should definitely try to run one in the near-ish future...
[22:14] Tango42: One issue with academies is that they only affect a very small number of people
[22:15] mpeel: the idea behind it, though, is that they're virial
[22:15] Tango42: that makes sense, I guess
[22:15] mpeel: people come along, learn, take that knowledge away, and spread it to others
[22:15] AndrewRT: any chance you could have a look through and add more ideas from Berlin?
[22:15] Tango42: I think going into schools and universities and talking to students and educators could impact more people, though
[22:16] mpeel: a mixture would be good - not everyone's in education!
[22:16] Tango42: I think WMDE has aimed academies at older people that won't be impacted by other means
[22:16] Tango42: that's probably a good use of academies
[22:16] Tango42: but let's move on
[22:16] Tango42: next item in the schedule was fundraising - mpeel, that was you
[22:16] mpeel: I'm not sure how much to say about fundraising
[22:16] AndrewRT: any good ideas?
[22:16] mpeel: it was mostly on how the donation drive works
[22:17] AndrewRT: will we be involved in this in 2009?
[22:17] mpeel: most money comes into chapters through the donation drive
[22:17] mpeel: rather than other means
[22:17] mpeel: we could be
[22:17] AndrewRT: anything we need to do to ensure we are?
[22:17] mpeel: get established
[22:17] AndrewRT: ok 
[22:17] mpeel: have a good treasurer (cfp, feel like continuing?)
[22:17] Tango42: we'll almost certainly be involved in the 2009 fundraiser. It would be crazy not to be.
[22:17] mpeel: make sure that we process donations well
[22:18] Tango42: it's something we just have to make happen, not ask whether it will happen
[22:18] AndrewRT: worth bearing in mind then
[22:18] mpeel: have mechanisms for keeping in touch with donators, keeping them up to date on both WMUK and WMF.
[22:18] mpeel: I would be amazed if we weren't involved with the fundraiser...
[22:18] cfp: providing people vote for me i'm happy to continue
[22:18] AndrewRT: on our membership etc form, do we have a box to tick for publicity?
[22:19] mpeel: how do you mean?
[22:19] AndrewRT: i.e. can we use our membership list to send out begging letters
[22:19] AndrewRT: if you pardon the phrase!
[22:19] mpeel: I don't thinkw e need a box to tick for that
[22:19] Tango42: I think if you join a charity you should expect to receive stuff from them
[22:19] cfp: oh i see. charities don't usually ask
[22:19] KTC: i would think by being a member of a company / charity, u expect some contact
[22:19] AndrewRT: most people have an opt out box to tick
[22:19] Tango42: we should ask for permission for donors, though
[22:20] Tango42: if you want to opt out, don't join the charity
[22:20] cfp: yeah i do quite annoyed by being emailed weekly by a few charities i gave money to once 5 years ago
[22:20] mpeel: we don't yet have a proper donation method in place...
[22:20] AndrewRT: opt out of communications
[22:20] mpeel: we should do that at some point
[22:20] AndrewRT: dont we?
[22:20] mpeel: we have donation along with membership
[22:20] mpeel: that's it
[22:20] AndrewRT:
[22:20] AndrewRT:
[22:21] mpeel: that's not a proper donation setup...
[22:21] Tango42: donations won't really start until we have paypal set up properly
[22:21] mpeel: what Tango42 just said. 
[22:21] AndrewRT: yes i guess that makes a big difference
[22:21] mpeel: basically, we need online processing
[22:21] mpeel: possibly, a proper donation form
[22:21] Tango42: paypal is waiting on charitable tax status, yes?
[22:21] mpeel: actually... ignore that, gift aid one does the job.
[22:21] AndrewRT: yes
[22:22] AndrewRT: online form would be good
[22:22] Tango42: That doesn't seem to be happening any time soon - perhaps we should switch to non-charitable and just pay the fees for now?
[22:22] AndrewRT: charity then paypal then online form I guess
[22:22] mpeel: although gift aid form needs to be pushed more
[22:22] Tango42: gift aid is little more than a tick box on a donation form, online or otherwise
[22:22] AndrewRT: Tango42 - possibly, something to consider I guess - lets discuss in next Treasurers Report?
[22:23] cfp: yes we probably should switch to non-charitable status
[22:23] mpeel: Tango42: was meaning, we should ask for people to fill in a form with their contact details along with their donation.
[22:23] cfp: i've been meaning to do it, it's on my to do list
[22:23] Tango42: ok, so we action cfp with switching now?
[22:23] Tango42: Then we can issue a press release after the AGM and mention donations then
[22:24] AndrewRT: yes definitely!
[22:24] mpeel: good plan
[22:24] AndrewRT: actually should we do a press release now?
[22:24] Tango42: (we can throw together an online form before then - nothing clever, but enough to do the job)
[22:24] AndrewRT: part of the membership drive?
[22:24] Tango42: membership drive is within the Wikimedia community
[22:24] Tango42: press releases are for the outside world
[22:25] mpeel: membership drive is a little wider than just the wikimedia community
[22:25] mpeel: but broadly that's correct
[22:25] AndrewRT: coverage in the press may get us members tho!
[22:25] mpeel: we should have something to announce in a press release, though - am not sure we have that yet
[22:26] AndrewRT: well, were a little off tangent on fundraising - shall we move back to Berlin?
[22:26] mpeel: ... where we were talking about fundraising?
[22:26] AndrewRT: yep
[22:26] Tango42: I think our existence is worth announcing, but the AGM seems to be the time to do that (otherwise we should have done it months ago)
[22:26] mpeel: I think that's basically all there is to say...
[22:26] AndrewRT: any other ideas form other chapters?
[22:26] AndrewRT: _from_
[22:27] mpeel: not with fundraising, no
[22:27] Tango42: ok, shall we move on the relationships between chapters?
[22:27] mpeel: it's pretty well focused on the donation drive + membership...
[22:27] Tango42: (which is me)
[22:27] AndrewRT: ok we've covered content liberation, fundraising, Wikimedia Academies etc
[22:27] mpeel: I was going to say a little more on content liberation...
[22:27] AndrewRT: yes sure chapters?
[22:27] Tango42: Wiki*p*edia Academies, I think
[22:27] AndrewRT: ok
[22:27] mpeel: Wikimedia academies also works
[22:27] AndrewRT: more content liberation then?
[22:28] AndrewRT: was Pharos there from NYC?
[22:28] mpeel: yup
[22:28] AndrewRT: did you talk to him about WLA?
[22:28] mpeel: although the main contributors here were Mathias and Liam
[22:28] Tango42: There were two main conclusions re. chapter relationships. We need to improve communication between chapters so we can learn from each other, share resources, etc.
[22:28] mpeel: yes... it seems to have caused some issues...
[22:28] AndrewRT: WP Loves Art
[22:28] mpeel: some people weren't happy with the way it worked out
[22:29] mpeel: I think the V&A part worked well, though.
[22:29] Tango42: KTC - slap them, they're going off-topic...
[22:29] mpeel: what?
[22:29] AndrewRT: Tango42 ok to we do content liberation first and then chapters rels?
[22:29] Tango42: I thought we were going through the schedule in order
[22:29] mpeel: ok, let's come back to this later then.
[22:29] AndrewRT: wheres the Schedule again?
[22:29] KTC:
[22:30] AndrewRT: cheers!
[22:30] AndrewRT: ah yes your right!
[22:30] AndrewRT: chapters rels then...
[22:30] mpeel: I finished funding requests process, and went onto success stories (which then links in with content liberation), sorry.
[22:30] Tango42: second conclusion from relations - we need a formal way for chapters to make decisions in matters where we need to speak with a single voice
[22:31] Tango42: something similar to the UN security council was discussed, as was a rotating presidency like in the EU
[22:31] AndrewRT: Tango42>There were two main conclusions re. chapter relationships. We need to improve communication between chapters so we can learn from each other, share resources, etc.
[22:31] AndrewRT: on your forst point - any suggestions for how?
[22:31] AndrewRT: _first_
[22:31] Tango42: making better use of the chapters wiki, mainly
[22:31] Seddon: there is a chapters wiki?
[22:31] Tango42: there is
[22:31] Tango42: it's board members (and me!) only, though
[22:32] Seddon: sorry for interrupting there 
[22:32] KTC: <Tango42> something similar to the UN security council was discussed, as was a rotating presidency like in the EU - considering how the UN is in desperate need of reform itself, prob not the best model...
[22:32] AndrewRT: which is a good argument for not using it
[22:32] AndrewRT: personally I like the idea of a presidency - if not the name!
[22:32] AndrewRT: an organiser
[22:32] Tango42: I prefer the name "moderator"
[22:32] AndrewRT: what was the consensus at the meeting?
[22:33] KTC was promoted to operator by ChanServ.
[22:33] Tango42 was granted voice by KTC.
[22:33] Tango42: there wasn't really a concensus, it was mostly brain storming
[22:33] KTC made this room moderated for normal users.
[22:33] AndrewRT: was there much support for a moderator?
[22:33] Tango42: there was a lot of support for some kind of formal structure, we ran out of time to discuss it in detail
[22:34] KTC was demoted from operator by ChanServ.
[22:34] AndrewRT: what's the next stage?
[22:34] AndrewRT: how is this going to be carried forward?
[22:34] Tango42: not sure, really... it was rather disappointing that we ran out of time
[22:34] AndrewRT: well it's good to brainstorm!
[22:34] Tango42: we were going to split into smaller workgroups, one of which would have discussed i
[22:35] Tango42: it
[22:35] mpeel: wasn't there a committee on this?
[22:36] You left the chat by being disconnected from the server.
[22:36] You rejoined the room.
[22:36] You were granted voice by ChanServ.
[22:36] AndrewRT: ok
[22:36] AndrewRT: we're through about 1/3rd of the meeting!
[22:36] mpeel_: sorry... did I miss anything then?
[22:36] AndrewRT:
[22:36] Warofdreams was granted voice by ChanServ.
[22:36] Tango42: comms and marketing?
[22:36] KTC: there u go Warofdreams
[22:36] Warofdreams: thanks
[22:37] mpeel_: Tango42: wasn't here a committee on chapter relations?
[22:37] Tango42: there was, neither or us were on it and I never heard any conclusions from it
[22:38] mpeel_: ok; hopefully we'll hear from them in the future...
[22:38] Tango42: hopefully
[22:38] mpeel left the chat room. (Nick collision from services.)
[22:38] AndrewRT: I'm afraid it's gone half 10 & I have to go
[22:39] AndrewRT: sorry to rush off
[22:39] Tango42: ok, byebye
[22:39] AndrewRT: is there aything else you need me for?
[22:39] AndrewRT: AGM - I sent a detailed agenda round on email - self explanatory I hoep
[22:40] KTC: any quick comment on chapter selection on board seat ?
[22:40] AndrewRT: Chapter-selected seats - personally I think process is good - much improvement on existing one
[22:40] AndrewRT: addresses main concerns that we raised previously
[22:41] AndrewRT: the resolution on adopting individuals  - I'll send my views to KTC privately given that it's confidential
[22:41] Tango42: Do you have any comments on Michael Snow?
[22:41] Tango42: ok
[22:41] AndrewRT: remember this is publc!
[22:42] Tango42: shall we carry on?
[22:42] KTC: alright, keep going
[22:42] Warofdreams: proposed AGM agenda looks good
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[22:43] Tango42: comms and marketing was mainly about talking to the press, nothing much to report on that. We should put together a list of press contacts and keep in regular contact with them. A few ideas on how to do that, but nothing majorly useful.
[22:44] Tango42: public outreach -
[22:44] Tango42: the foundation is planning to but together some templates for chapters to use for howto-guides, etc. We could probably use them almost unchanged, since we won't need to translate.
[22:45] Tango42: i think that's the only real conclusion for that
[22:45] Tango42: mpeel, do you want to talk about content liberation now?
[22:45] AndrewRT left the chat room. ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]")
[22:45] mpeel_: if you'll let me... 
[22:45] Tango42: it's time for it now
[22:45] mpeel_: ok
[22:45] Tango42: you just have to be patient!
[22:45] mpeel_: the meeting made me very impatient to start doing things... 
[22:46] mpeel_: Mathias has been doing some impressive work with image collections
[22:46] mpeel_: he talked to us about how the process with this has happened
[22:46] mpeel_: (Mathias is part of WMDE)
[22:46] mpeel_: Liam (WMUK) has also been interacting with museums, and has had some success
[22:46] Tango42: WMAU
[22:47] mpeel_: sorry, typo there.  thanks tango
[22:47] cfp: it's good we're getting ideas for things to actually do
[22:47] Tango42: we were WMUK last time I checked! 
[22:47] cfp: at the moment we seem to exist purely to do admin
[22:47] mpeel_: basically, we should start talking to museums about the link between them and wikipedia
[22:47] mpeel_: talk with them to see how we can learn from each other, and possibly do things together
[22:48] mpeel_: ... and avoid the word "liberation" - that's not a good word to use here...
[22:48] mpeel_: we're not liberating, we're just making it more openly available.
[22:48] mpeel_: there are several UK institutions that have already shown an interest
[22:48] mpeel_: there was an email from Mathias earlier today to our mailing list about the british library
[22:49] mpeel_: there's another museum he's had contact with that are interested in working with WM
[22:49] mpeel_: (I know which, but don't want to say publically)
[22:49] mpeel_: it would be good if we could start talking to museums sooner rather than later...
[22:50] mpeel_: I'm inclined to ask for your approval to go talking to museums asap, but probably don't have time in the immediate future for that... 
[22:50] mpeel_: I think that's broadly it; any questions / comments?
[22:50] KTC: just go talk to them
[22:50] KTC: don't need permission to enquire
[22:50] mpeel_: ok, great. I thought that it might on the basis that the Wikimedia UK name would be invoked
[22:51] mpeel_: I'll try to start doing things there, then.
[22:51] mpeel_: oh - I'm also on the committee for this sort of thing, although I'm not sure what's going to be happening with that yet...
[22:51] Warofdreams: the V&A were leading on WLA, but I remember that the London Transport Museum were also keen to get involved - might be good people to talk to
[22:52] mpeel_: that would be good
[22:52] mpeel_: I'm down in london in the middle of this month; will try to get in contact with some of them then.
[22:52] mpeel_: will talk to Andrew about the V&A...
[22:52] Tango42: mpeel_:If you want to be sure, say you are "from" WMUK, not "representing" WMUK, then you don't need to worry about approval so much
[22:52] mpeel_: good point Tango42, thanks.
[22:53] mpeel_: working with volunteers and local communities
[22:53] mpeel_: focused on the fomer only due to lack of time
[22:53] mpeel_: was basically how to get volunteers and keep them
[22:53] cfp: you have my vote for any museum contacting you do
[22:53] cfp: that'd be much appreciated
[22:53] mpeel_: thanks cfp
[22:54] cfp: should we maybe adjourn this meeting?
[22:54] Tango42: we need to talk about chapter board seats and trademarks sooner rather than later
[22:54] Tango42: i'd rather do that in this meeting
[22:55] KTC: if we have anything else on chapters meeting summary / feedback, we can do next time
[22:55] KTC: i want to talk about board seat 2
[22:55] Tango42: i think other than trademarks, we've covered everything on the meeting schedule
[22:55] mpeel_: the other sessions didn't really happen...
[22:56] Warofdreams: why not?
[22:56] Tango42: shall we move onto trademarks (which includes the trademark talk and discussion, and private discussions with Godwin)
[22:56] mpeel_: common projects, visions and birds of a feather sort of got avoided or cancelled
[22:56] mpeel_: common projects because everyone needed to be in trademarks
[22:56] mpeel_: the other two because very few people were around following from the party the previous day...
[22:56] mpeel_: right, trademarks
[22:57] mpeel_: perhaps this is best done in camera?
[22:57] cfp: k
[00:15] KTC: hello 
[00:16] mpeel_: I think we're back...
[00:16] mpeel_: after 1.25 hours away... 
[00:19] KTC: the board, with Tango42 who was involved with the discussion at the chapters meeting dicussed wmf trademarks and WMUK use & argeement with WMF in relation to it
[00:19] KTC: and then dicussed various proposal with regards to chapters selected seat on the WMF board
[00:20] KTC: and now back to reality
[00:20] KTC: Anything else before we finish?
[00:21] Warofdreams: newsletter - please think about contributing
[00:21] Warofdreams: but still plenty of time to write something
[00:21] mpeel_: please don't just think about it...
[00:21] mpeel_: actually do contribute, please.
[00:21] Warofdreams:
[00:21] Warofdreams: well said!
[00:22] KTC: next meeting ?
[00:22] mpeel_: tuesday 14th, 8.30pm?
[00:23] mpeel_: monday's probably bad due to easter
[00:23] Warofdreams: Tuesday would be better
[00:23] KTC: ok
[00:23] KTC: cfp?
[00:24] Warofdreams: who is minuting tonight's meeting?
[00:25] Warofdreams: is anyone minuting?
[00:25] cfp: fine
[00:25] cfp: to tuesday
[00:25] KTC: fine, i'll do it
[00:25] KTC: to minute
[00:25] cfp: thanks ktc
[00:25] Warofdreams: thanks - better for it to be someone who was at the whole meeting
[00:26] KTC: that's it then
[00:27] KTC: thanks for everyone who's taken part / watched
[00:27] KTC: see u next week for (always) a shorter meeting
[00:27] Warofdreams: goodnight!
[00:27] Warofdreams left the chat room.
[00:27] mpeel_: g'night


[20:33] • skenmy is watching 
[20:33] AndrewRT: hiya
[20:33] KTC: hello
[20:33] KTC: please join us (@ #wikimedia-uk-board ) if you're not already there watching 
[20:34] skenmy: and now i'm alive and watching 
[20:34] • skenmy was being interviewed about Wikinews
[20:34] AndrewRT: wow
[20:34] AndrewRT: who by?
[20:34] skenmy: university student - nothing too important
[20:35] AndrewRT: oh i c
[20:36] AndrewRT: interesting tho - if they publish online could you put a link to the list?
[20:36] skenmy: sure thing
[20:36] jsfarrar: if you guys have stuff about the elections to discuss, can I ask that you do it fairly early on as I need to leave by 9:30 as usual, cheers 
[20:37] jsfarrar: though why I'm suddenly online as jsfarrar rather than LondonStato confuses me!
[20:37] AndrewRT: u seem to be on as both!
[20:37] AndrewRT: cheers james - will consider that
[20:45] CraigSpurrier joined the chat room.
[20:46] LondonStatto left the chat room. (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[20:46] skenmy: bars have the plus point of liquid icebreaker / liquid confidence 
[20:47] mpeel: I wouldn't like to see board members (or candidates) drinking during the meeting...
[20:48] mpeel: due to the formal nature of the meeting (for current board members), and the board meeting straight afterwards (for candidates)
[20:48] skenmy: I was, of course, joking 
[20:48] skenmy: (ftr)
[20:48] cfp: i think we can safely trust people to be sensible. i don't drink, but i can't imagine people having half a pint is going to impair their judgement
[20:49] KTC: i'm with cfp there
[20:49] KTC: the chances are i'll be drinking... cola 
[20:49] skenmy:
[20:49] jsfarrar: hmm, did i lose connection?
[20:51] AndrewRT: looks like your other you did!
[20:51] skenmy: greed re: CC-UK
[20:51] skenmy: *agreed
[20:51] skenmy: sounds like a good AGM! 
[20:58] skenmy: seddon normally turns up quite late in the evening
[20:59] AndrewRT: ok
[20:59] Dereckson joined the chat room.
[21:01] CraigSpurrier_aw joined the chat room.
[21:01] CraigSpurrier left the chat room.
[21:02] Seddon joined the chat room.
[21:02] AndrewRT: Tango42 - you there?
[21:02] Seddon: is there a meeting tonight?
[21:02] AndrewRT: yep
[21:02] skenmy: yay seddon made it
[21:03] Tango42: I'm here
[21:03] AndrewRT: hi seddon
[21:03] Seddon: fuck i forgot
[21:03] Seddon:
[21:03] KTC:
[21:03] Tango42: I talking to Godwin, though, so may be slow to respond
[21:03] Seddon: we need to keep the channel topic up to date 
[21:03] Seddon: in both channels
[21:03] AndrewRT: Tango42 - did you mention about saying we needed to get some legal advice?
[21:03] Topic changed to "Discussion of Wikimedia UK | Discuss the Oxford Wikimania 2010 bid in #wikimania-oxford | Bidding has started, please get to work on the bid page | Next WMUK board meeting is now in #wikimedia-uk-board | Those interested in becoming board members should send in thier candidate forms by sunday evening" by KTC.
[21:03] mpeel: g'evening Seddon - I want to talk to you about Wikimania at some point...
[21:04] Seddon: thanx KTC 
[21:04] Topic changed to "Discussion of Wikimedia UK | Discuss the Oxford Wikimania 2010 bid in #wikimania-oxford | Bidding has started, please get to work on the bid page | Next WMUK board meeting is now in #wikimedia-uk-board" by KTC.
[21:04] Seddon: sure mpeel
[21:06] skenmy: I have an idea
[21:06] skenmy: perhaps WMUK could apply
[21:06] Seddon: i have one two 
[21:07] mpeel: please, share... 
[21:07] Seddon: but not sure what would be required
[21:07] Seddon: you go first skenmy
[21:07] skenmy: seen
[21:07] skenmy: -seen... 
[21:08] skenmy: but it seems a bit narrow for the UK chapter
[21:08] skenmy: (i.e. it's for worldwide reporters, not just UK ones, unless Wikimedia UK wants to vouch for UK accredited reporters)
[21:08] Seddon: my idea which apparently has never been looked into by the foundation which is the production of free peer reviewed journals
[21:11] mpeel: skenmy: nice idea, not sure if WMUK's the best group to deal with this, as the WMF directly might be better...
[21:11] skenmy: yah
[21:11] mpeel: definitely worth persuing, though
[21:11] skenmy: hence why the proposal is aimed at the WMF
[21:12] mpeel: personally, I'd have no problems with WMUK handling some aspects of it, from a logistics point of view...
[21:12] mpeel: might be worth asking cary or frank about it.
[21:12] mpeel: see what their views are
[21:13] skenmy: cary was the one who spurred me to write it 
[21:13] mpeel: that's good. 
[21:13] skenmy: perhaps WMUK vouching for UK reporters is a seperate matter entirely (and possibly a legal one, too)
[21:13] mpeel: perhaps... is it normal for charities / companies to vouch for reporters?
[21:13] skenmy: companies definately
[21:14] mpeel: Seddon: the tricky thing with free peer reviewed journals is getting the peers to review the work...
[21:14] skenmy: charities, I don;t see why not
[21:14] jsfarrar: ok, i have to head off
[21:14] jsfarrar: have a fun rest-of-meeting...
[21:14] skenmy: o/ james
[21:14] AndrewRT: cheers james - thanks for your work on the elections
[21:14] mpeel: jsfarrar: thanks for coming along
[21:14] skenmy: ditto
[21:15] KTC: bye
[21:15] Seddon: mpeel: Normally peers just get sent it out of nowhere
[21:15] jsfarrar left the chat room.
[21:15] mpeel: yes, but you need to know which peers to contact
[21:15] • skenmy got one too
[21:15] mpeel: and you need to make sure that they'll reply
[21:15] mpeel: and make sure that they'll actually do the review up to a high standard
[21:17] Seddon: well thats why you send it to several 
[21:18] mpeel: Seddon, skenmy, could you write up a project proposal on the wiki?
[21:19] Seddon: i try 
[21:19] mpeel: thanks. 
[21:19] skenmy: currently doing one on wikinews
[21:19] Seddon: oooo i got sent something by steve virgin
[21:20] AndrewRT: officially?
[21:21] Seddon: just as steve virgin being steve virgin
[21:21] Seddon:
[21:23] skenmy:
[21:23] skenmy:
[21:23] Seddon: might be useful for those from wikinews
[21:23] KTC: que Tango42
[21:24] mpeel: unesco looks impressive - hopefully they'll be under a proper free license...
[21:24] AndrewRT: where's Tango42 when you need him 
[21:24] Tango42: i'm here
[21:24] Tango42: what am I needed for?
[21:24] KTC: time to shout 
[21:24] Tango42: I'm only half paying attention
[21:24] mpeel: the c-word needs yelling...
[21:24] Tango42: ah, right - thanks
[21:24] AndrewRT: CABAL!!!
[21:24] skenmy: CU...wait
[21:24] Tango42: CABAL! CABAL! CABAL!
[21:24] skenmy: that's can't be right
[21:24] AndrewRT: beat you too it!! 
[21:25] Tango42: You did it wrong... you have to say it three times, with on exclamation mark each
[21:26] mpeel: Tango42: that has an almost cabal-ish tone to it...
[21:26] Tango42: one has to get cabal-related rituals precisely correct, regardless of whether they are internal or external rituals
[21:30] • skenmy is holding on for the wikimania bid discussion
[21:31] Seddon: i dont know what there is to say really 
[21:31] Tango42: yes, we need to talk about wikimania - we need to sort out our local team
[21:32] Seddon: there is that
[21:32] Tango42: that seems to be the only thing we are lacking
[21:32] • skenmy is officially a part of the local team 
[21:32] Seddon: I simply havnt had the time to try and fix up accomodation any better
[21:32] mpeel: I talked to one of the jury members during the chapters meeting...
[21:32] skenmy: whens decision day?
[21:32] Seddon: and im pretty annoyed at myself about it
[21:33] Seddon: mpeel: go on
[21:33] mpeel: sorry; will elaborate in a sec
[21:33] skenmy: the suspense!
[21:33] mpeel: I won't mention names as I'm not sure how public their comments should be...
[21:34] mpeel: basically, they said that we had a very strong bid, which was why we weren't asked many questions during the irc meeting
[21:34] mpeel: the big weakness, though, is the local team
[21:34] mpeel: we need to clearly define who is on that team
[21:34] mpeel: and what their roles are
[21:34] mpeel: (I guess also their expertise, but that wasn't mentioned)
[21:34] Seddon: That make sense
[21:34] skenmy: re -board : woo!
[21:35] skenmy: re here: that should be okay
[21:35] cfp: right.
[21:35] Seddon: fantastic 21 members
[21:35] mpeel: who's leading up everything? Presumably seddon?
[21:35] cfp: seddon you're still ok to lead the bid?
[21:35] Seddon: Yer, but only if everyone supports that
[21:35] skenmy: Seddon - I am willing to support you wherever I can
[21:36] cfp: i see myself as the oxford liason
[21:36] Seddon: i have been cautious about just taking the role simply because its never been discussed properly
[21:36] mpeel: Seddon: just take the role. you're basically doing it anyway atm.
[21:36] Tango42: yeah - I support Seddon as leader
[21:36] skenmy: {{support}}
[21:36] • KTC put hands up
[21:37] skenmy: now pick a job title
[21:37] skenmy: "Event Co-ordinator"?
[21:37] skenmy: "Supreme Overlord"?
[21:37] Seddon: God king
[21:37] skenmy: that'll do.
[21:37] KTC: sorry, i think that one is taken 
[21:37] Seddon: oh damn jimmy has that
[21:37] Seddon: hmmmm we will finalise it next week 
[21:38] Seddon: ill draw up a list
[21:38] mpeel: Seddon: he doesn't actually like that title...
[21:38] mpeel: he told me off for calling him that one time...
[21:38] Seddon: Well its The Truth TM
[21:38] Tango42: "Conference Director"?
[21:39] cfp: seems sensible
[21:39] skenmy: i like it
[21:39] skenmy: considering the other roles have "director" at the end
[21:40] Tango42: What other jobs do we need?
[21:41] Seddon: Technical director i decided should go to skenmy
[21:41] Tango42: Venue director? Schedule Director? Accommodation Director?
[21:41] skenmy: we have Conference Director, Technical Director, and Financial Director. We'll need a Volunteer Director
[21:41] Seddon: Financial  should go to whoever the WMUK treasurer is for obvious reasons
[21:41] skenmy: yup
[21:41] mpeel: currently cfp, then?
[21:41] Seddon: which is CFP   well volunteered
[21:42] skenmy: those three sound reasonable, Tango
[21:42] cfp: fine
[21:43] Tango42: I'm not sure we need a volunteer director - the team leaders will deal with volunteers that are working with their team
[21:43] Tango42: the conference director can assign volunteers to each team
[21:44] skenmy: volunteer director deals with anyone who isn;t in a led team
[21:44] skenmy: such as the greeters, meeters, etc
[21:44] skenmy: our ground force, per se
[21:44] mpeel: how have other wikimanias distributed the roles?
[21:44] skenmy: (just an idea, is all  )
[21:44] Seddon: that could come under conference director i suppose
[21:45] skenmy: aye
[21:45] Seddon: each individual team would have a team leader
[21:45] skenmy: which is the director of that team, I assume?
[21:46] Seddon: yer in a way 
[21:46] Tango42: shouldn't everyone be in a led team?
[21:46] skenmy: i gh'okay
[21:46] skenmy: ...*h'okay
[21:46] skenmy: Tango42, now you mention it, it is kinda a silly thing to say 
[21:46] skenmy: yes, everyone should be
[21:46] skenmy: I am thinking silly-ly.
[21:47] Tango42: greeters and meeters would probably come under accommodation
[21:47] mpeel: gdansk seem to have developed a lot of roles...
[21:47] mpeel:
[21:47] mpeel: or rather, areas of responsibility
[21:47] Seddon: prehaps the alexandria modell would be a good one to follow
[21:47] cfp: seddon i shtere anything you want to say to the board on the bid
[21:48] Seddon: shtere?
[21:48] Tango42: is there
[21:48] Tango42: i think
[21:48] skenmy: gah
[21:48] skenmy: move onto wikimania bid! 
[21:48] Seddon: ummmm i dont think so
[21:48] cfp: k
[21:49] skenmy: oh
[21:49] mpeel: sorry...
[21:49] skenmy: if nothing to be said, then don;t move on
[21:49] skenmy:
[21:49] Seddon: but we can carry on with the discussion in here
[21:49] skenmy: absolutey
[21:49] skenmy: we need to decide on a "roles list"
[21:49] skenmy: and fill the director position of tose roles
[21:49] Tango42: a VIP director might be useful too
[21:50] skenmy: perhaps "hospitality director"
[21:50] skenmy: could deal with meeters whatnot and VIPs
[21:50] Seddon: let me pull up the alexandria bid
[21:50] Tango42: there seems to me to be a big overlap between hospitality and accommodation - where would be dividing line be?
[21:50] mpeel: alexandria might not be something to follow exactly, as they had a lot of organizational issues...
[21:50] skenmy:
[21:50] Tango42: accommodation is basically part of hospitality
[21:51] Tango42: what do wikimania's usually do for evening meals?
[21:51] Seddon: ok no
[21:51] Seddon: it wasnt that bid
[21:51] skenmy: Taipei looks semi well organised
[21:52] Seddon:
[21:52] Seddon: that looked good
[21:52] skenmy: that's good.
[21:53] Seddon: i wanted something similar to that
[21:53] Seddon: not exactly but looked a good template to work off
[21:53] skenmy: we basically have the following structure
[21:53] skenmy: conference director
[21:53] skenmy: team directors
[21:53] skenmy: team members
[21:54] Tango42: yeah, that sounds pretty standard to me
[21:54] skenmy: if we can fill the director roles
[21:54] skenmy: and get a couple of members onto each team
[21:54] skenmy: i think we'd have a pretty solid grounding for a local team
[21:54] skenmy: don't forget we have until 2010 to develop a full team
[21:55] skenmy: but we need to show we are developing it now
[21:56] Seddon: I agree
[21:56] mpeel: the framework should be in place, with space for expansion...
[21:57] Tango42: We need the directors sorted out ASAP, we can worry about fleshing out the teams a little later
[21:57] skenmy: absolutely
[21:57] Seddon: brb
[21:57] skenmy: so we need a list of directors
[21:58] Tango42: If memory serves, someone assigned me the venue on one of the wiki pages- I'm happy to go with that
[21:59] skenmy: Venues Director
[22:00] Tango42: Speaking of venue*s*, plural, should we have a separate Hacking Days director?
[22:01] skenmy: not sure
[22:01] skenmy: tbh that could fall under technical
[22:02] skenmy: sorry, I must go
[22:02] skenmy: got to get upp for work tomorrow!
[22:02] AndrewRT: cheers skenmy
[22:03] Tango42: I'm not sure we need a technical director, but rather a technical person in the venue team, and another in the hacking days team
[22:06] Seddon: Tango42: Given the amount of work involved i would say that having a techincal director would be key. Essentially the role is like that of a stage manager in a theater
[22:07] Seddon: Venue director would be the director
[22:07] Seddon: Conference director would be the producer
[22:07] Seddon: broken down in those terms
[22:07] Tango42: A director in a theatre is a creative role, that doesn't really apply
[22:07] Tango42: what you would envisage the venue director actually doing?
[22:10] Seddon: venue director would be responsible for the coordination of the tech teams, schedule, and volunteers, each of those would have someone overseeing accross all venues with team leaders overseeing at individual venues
[22:10] Seddon: that make sense?
[22:10] warofdreams joined the chat room.
[22:12] Seddon: so you have someone overseeing everything at one venue, so eg tango oversees everything at the town hall, now the technical director would oversee all technical resources accross all venues
[22:13] Tango42: so you want a web-like structure rather than a hierarchy?
[22:13] Tango42: hierarchies are easier
[22:14] Seddon: think of my structure being a hybrid between the two
[22:15] Seddon: if the two venues are seperate, the amount of information having to be dealt with by one person overseeing the two venues would be enourmous
[22:16] Seddon: if you have defined structures in each venue
[22:17] Seddon: then have two or three people connecting the two in specialised areas
[22:18] Tango42: i'm not sure technical stuff we need to be coordinated between the venues much, so can probably be done by separate people
[22:19] Seddon: ok how about this for a higherarchie
[22:22] • KTC wonder where his passports & other important cards are located... :S
[22:22] Seddon: 1 conference director
[22:22] KTC: oops
[22:22] Seddon: ^
[22:22] Seddon: 1 venue director, 1 finanace director, 1 communication director, 1 resource director (would cover volunteers, techincal facilities), 1 Accomodation director
[22:23] Seddon: or lump in accomodation with venue
[22:24] Seddon: non-charitable ????
[22:24] Seddon: im clearly not paying attention to both
[22:24] mpeel: for the paypal account
[22:24] Seddon: ahhh ok
[22:24] Seddon: what is happening with hmrc
[22:25] mpeel: we're waiting to hear back
[22:25] mpeel: they have a massive backlog with letters...
[22:25] Tango42: accomodation and venue are very different jobs and need to be separate
[22:26] Tango42: I really don't see the need for someone to coordinate volunteers - individual team leaders will coordinate their teams
[22:26] Seddon: but how are the different coordinators going know what is available to them?
[22:26] Seddon: there is going to be no one person as a go to point with regards to techincal equipment
[22:27] Seddon: trust me on this one tango
[22:28] Seddon: someone needs to kee tabs on what we have and dont have when those resources will be available
[22:28] Seddon: whether one not they have the title director, its needs to exist for the whole of the conference
[22:31] cfp: have winners been announced for WLA yet?
[22:31] cfp: we're in danger of the prizes we promised no longer being available
[22:33] AndrewRT: really?
[22:33] AndrewRT: when's the deadline for acting do you think?
[22:33] Seddon: the next time, a better method needs to be used
[22:33] AndrewRT: I've been pushing them for results
[22:33] Seddon: prehaps people only submitting thier best photos
[22:34] AndrewRT: hehe well, there's a LOT to do differently next time!!
[22:34] Seddon: not 6000
[22:36] You left the chat by being disconnected from the server.
[22:36] You rejoined the room.
[22:36] cfp: we all know your real name you might as well use it
[22:36] Warofdreams: I guess I could
[22:36] cfp: or just use wod
[22:37] AndrewRT: cfp - yeah I know
[22:37] AndrewRT: my personal deadline was 6 weeks
[22:37] KTC: did u use ur real email address Warofdreams when registerring ?
[22:37] AndrewRT: which I might still make!!
[22:37] AndrewRT:
[22:37] Warofdreams: KTC: yes
[22:37] KTC: can it be reset / request via email ?
[22:38] KTC: i'm not sure
[22:38] Warofdreams: I'm told that it can't
[22:38] mpeel left the chat room. (Nick collision from services.)
[22:39] KTC: - a bit old, but have a look at the comments at the bottom
[22:40] Tango42: seddon: The conference director can coordinate between other teams. I think most technical resources will be venue specific. Those that aren't will only be used by the venue that is currently doing stuff - there is no overlap between hacking days and the main venue events
[22:41] Seddon: kk cool so have venue specific tech coordinator?
[22:43] CraigSpurrier_aw is now known as CraigSpurrier.
[22:45] AndrewRT left the chat room. ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]")
[22:48] Tango42: Yeah, I think a tech person should just be a member of the venue team (venue meaning town hall). The hacking days team would have a separate tech person
[22:49] Seddon: ok cool
[22:50] Tango42: So what is our current list of teams needed?
[22:50] Tango42: Venue
[22:50] Tango42: accommodation
[22:50] Tango42: hacking
[22:51] Tango42: schedule (which will have to interact with other teams - a strict hierarchy isn't possible there)
[22:51] Tango42: financial (does that need a team, or just the WMUK treasurer?)
[22:52] Seddon: i just thought
[22:52] Seddon: we should base off the 2009 structure
[22:52] Seddon: as in whats being used right now
[22:53] Seddon: thats been set up with the help of the foundation
[22:53] Tango42: link?
[22:56] Seddon: cant find it 
[22:59] Seddon: financial team will make up representatives from accomodation and venues in coord with treasurer
[23:06] mpeel_: the important thing is to start setting down a structure
[23:06] mpeel_: we can revise it as and when we get additional information / input...
[23:08] Seddon: ok accomodation, finance, venue, comms
[23:11] mpeel_: that looks good
[23:11] mpeel_: who's doing what?
[23:12] mpeel_: (I think the reason this conversation has slowed down is because we're keeping Tango42 busy in the cabal-room...)
[23:12] Seddon: tut tut
[23:29] Seddon: this is a long meeting
[23:29] Seddon: can i ask a question
[23:29] KTC: of course
[23:29] KTC:
[23:30] KTC: ur asking a question by asking whether u can ask a question 
[23:30] Seddon: are there private logs being kept of the camera meetings?
[23:30] mpeel_: I have most of the logs, I believe.
[23:30] Seddon: kk good
[23:31] KTC: i have whatever meeting i'm at
[23:31] Seddon: just making sure for future boards
[23:40] J_Milburn joined the chat room.
[23:40] • Seddon wonders what the board are plotting
[23:40] KTC: chapter selected seat on wmf board
[23:41] KTC: or just one great big farce to put another way 
[23:41] • Seddon wishes he knew how much of a farce it was so i could rant
[23:42] KTC: well, the seats were suppose to be 08 - 10 
[23:42] Seddon: 08-10?
[23:42] mpeel_: year range
[23:43] Seddon: ahhhhh
[23:57] KTC: zzzZZZ 
[00:02] Seddon: bloody hell guys
[00:02] Seddon: its now tomorrow
[00:02] Warofdreams: I'm trying to remember if we've been in a meeting until midnight before
[00:02] KTC: yes
[00:02] KTC: at least once
[00:03] Warofdreams: ah yes, it seem that 00:19 is the record
[00:14] Seddon: 00:14 
[00:14] Seddon: this is why people dont want to be board members
[00:14] Seddon:
[00:16] Seddon: welcome back to reality KTC
[00:16] Seddon: you have three minutes to finish the meeting 
[00:17] Seddon: 2 minutes 
[00:17] KTC: i think we can go for a new record by a few minutes 
[00:18] Seddon: one minute 
[00:20] Seddon: and thats a record 
[00:21] Seddon: my bad
[00:26] Warofdreams: thanks for staying up!
[00:27] mpeel_: this isn't the longest meeting, though - the 13 october one started an hour earlier and ran until 00:19...
[00:27] Seddon: but it is the latest 
[00:27] mpeel_: only if you include DST.