Meetings/2009-05-12/IRC

#wikimedia-uk-board

[20:30] AndrewRT: we good to go?
[20:30] mpeel: almost...
[20:30] • skenmy is present
[20:30] mpeel: any news from zeyi and steve?
[20:31] Seddon: steve send his apologies but mibbit is blocked atm
[20:31] • skenmy is working on that
[20:32] mpeel: shall we start?
[20:32] AndrewRT: sure
[20:32] mpeel: 4 == quorate, although not ideal...
[20:32] mpeel: Seddon, skenmy ?
[20:32] skenmy: Seddon, Steve should be allowed a connection now
[20:32] Seddon: ok cool
[20:34] skenmy: huzzah!
[20:34] AndrewRT: zeyi sends apologies will be late
[20:34] skenmy: whhat nickname did che connect with?
[20:34] skenmy: *she
[20:34] AndrewRT: dont know
[20:34] mpeel: zeyi
[20:34] skenmy: I will ask the freenode staffers to pre-add an exception
[20:34] steveV joined the chat room.
[20:35] skenmy was promoted to operator by ChanServ.
[20:35] steveV was granted voice by skenmy.
[20:35] skenmy was demoted from operator by skenmy.
[20:35] mpeel: ok, let's start
[20:35] mpeel: 1. Apologies for Absence
[20:35] mpeel: Zeyi (lateness), cfp
[20:36] mpeel: everyone else is here now
[20:36] mpeel: 2. Minutes of Meeting dated 2009-05-05 - approval & actions
[20:36] KTC joined the chat room.
[20:36] AndrewRT: hi steve
[20:36] mpeel: any corrections to the minutes?
[20:36] skenmy: no corrections here
[20:36] AndrewRT: I'm happy of course!
[20:36] AndrewRT: heer btw: http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-05-05
[20:36] mpeel: thanks andrew... agenda is at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-05-12/Agenda btw
[20:36] mpeel: (oops)
[20:37] steveV: Hi all
[20:37] mpeel: hi steve
[20:37] steveV: thanks to Skenmy for getting me in
[20:37] steveV: and seddon
[20:38] AndrewRT: happy with minutes SteveV, Seddon?
[20:38] Seddon: indeed
[20:38] mpeel: KTC's commented on the talk page:
[20:38] mpeel:     "The wikimedia.org.uk addresses have lapsed; AT to follow up taking ownership and re-assigning the email addresses."
[20:38] mpeel: That's confusing / not accurate. The domain is registered until "Renewal date: 12-Mar-2011". You might want to clarify that it's the web hosting that has lapsed or whatever the actual issue is. -- KTC 00:35, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
[20:39] AndrewRT: mpeel - what was it that lapsed on 30/4 then?
[20:39] steveV: ok
[20:39] mpeel: it was Alison's web hosting
[20:39] AndrewRT: ok I'll change
[20:39] mpeel: say that as a result, the email addresses stopped working.
[20:39] skenmy: They all appear to be working again, now.
[20:39] mpeel: mostly ... to be discussed later.
[20:40] mpeel: aside from that, everyone's happy with the minutes?
[20:40] • skenmy nods
[20:40] AndrewRT: Now "The hosting for the wikimedia.org.uk site has lapsed, causing the email addresses to stop working; AT to follow up taking ownership and re-assigning the email addresses."
[20:41] skenmy: Sounds fine here! Still no corrections.
[20:41] mpeel: sounds good to me
[20:41] AndrewRT: move on mpeel?
[20:41] mpeel: ok
[20:41] mpeel: actions
[20:41] mpeel: The following actions have been done, according to the last meeting minutes:
[20:41] mpeel: "JS to send a token of our appreciation to the retiring Directors and tellers; JS Agreed to add the external speakers to this list. AT will email the contact details of the speakers to all board members"
[20:41] mpeel: "AT has filed completed all filings with Companies House except for SV's appointment; AT & SV will arrange to do this after the meeting."
[20:41] mpeel: "PW reported back on the current owners of the IRC channels #wikimedia-uk, #wikimedia-uk-board and #wikimedia-uk-board-private; PW will arrange for all Board members to be made “founders” or, if this is not possible, “operators”"
[20:41] mpeel: "TH agreed to post the letter on the wiki and Board members will propose their amendments on that page for discussion between now and 18th. [Note: Posted to Submission to HMRC]"
[20:41] mpeel: Everyone happy with those?
[20:41] Majorly joined the chat room.
[20:42] AndrewRT: yep
[20:42] skenmy: yep
[20:42] steveV: yes
[20:42] AndrewRT: ah good point
[20:42] AndrewRT: JS to send a token of our appreciation to the retiring Directors and tellers; JS Agreed to add the external speakers to this list. AT will email the contact details of the speakers to all board members
[20:42] AndrewRT: The tick was for my bit
[20:42] AndrewRT: Seddon any news on your action?
[20:43] AndrewRT: u there Seddon?
[20:43] skenmy: I'll assume not?
[20:44] Zeyi joined the chat room.
[20:44] AndrewRT: I'll change the action to c/f
[20:44] AndrewRT: Hi Zeyi!
[20:44] steveV: hi
[20:44] skenmy was promoted to operator by ChanServ.
[20:44] Zeyi was granted voice by skenmy.
[20:44] skenmy was demoted from operator by skenmy.
[20:44] Zeyi: may I clear we talk or type?
[20:44] mpeel: g'evening Zeyi
[20:44] skenmy: we type 
[20:44] mpeel: type
[20:45] Zeyi: ok, 
[20:45] skenmy: Just as a small clarification on my action...
[20:45] skenmy: I forwarded a message to the board address regarding the accesses granted - is everyone happy?
[20:46] mpeel: it looked ok. Have zeyi and steveV had their permissions granted now?
[20:46] skenmy: They do not hold IRC accounts, so it is not possible to grant permissions
[20:46] AndrewRT: Seddon any news on "JS to send a token of our appreciation to the retiring Directors and tellers; JS Agreed to add the external speakers to this list."
[20:47] Seddon: I have the token's of appreciation for the speakers, tellers and speakers
[20:47] AndrewRT: skenmy - yep fine thanks for that
[20:47] AndrewRT: Seddon - are you going to post them?
[20:47] Zeyi: I don't know how to get IRC account actually...sorry...
[20:47] skenmy: I'll take an action to forward instructions to Steve / Zeyi on how to fully setup an IRC account and guide them through it.
[20:48] mpeel: thanks skenmy
[20:48] steveV: Best via phone matey I give you number at end of this all
[20:48] Zeyi: yes, we can do it later to solve it out, thanks.
[20:48] Seddon: AndrewRT yes, ill need to get the postal addresses
[20:48] skenmy: Sure!
[20:48] mpeel: Seddon: are you planning on claiming for the tokens?
[20:49] Seddon: no
[20:49] Seddon: other than possible postal cost
[20:49] Seddon: nothing for the tokens themselves
[20:49] mpeel: that's generous of you - thanks
[20:50] mpeel: I guess the action item "JS will talk to SV and ZH about learning to use the IRC channel." just wants to be carried forward in the form of skenmy's new action?
[20:50] AndrewRT: sure
[20:50] skenmy: I'll take that 
[20:50] mpeel: The rest of the action items can be discussed later, in the appropriate sections, if everyone's happy with that?
[20:50] AndrewRT: fine
[20:51] skenmy: Sounds fine here
[20:51] Zeyi: ok for me.
[20:51] mpeel: Seddon, steveV ?
[20:51] Seddon: yep :_)
[20:51] steveV: ok
[20:51] Seddon: :)*
[20:51] mpeel: great
[20:51] mpeel: 3. Reports
[20:51] mpeel: # Treasurer (TH; inc. membership applications, bank account)
[20:52] AndrewRT: I spoke to TH prior to mtg
[20:52] AndrewRT: No membership apps as yet
[20:52] AndrewRT: Nothing to report on Treasury stuff
[20:52] mpeel: there's an action: ""We had received one membership subscription by bank transfer but the application form hadn't been received yet. TH is following up.""
[20:52] mpeel: any news with that?
[20:52] AndrewRT: Yes - TH has followed up but not yet recd
[20:52] mpeel: ok, c/f to investigate?
[20:53] AndrewRT: yep
[20:53] mpeel: second (and last) action was "TH has applied for online banking for MP, AT but it hasn't been completed yet. TH to contact the bank to notify them of the new directors and to change the signatories to any two of MP, AT and TH"
[20:53] AndrewRT: TH has been in touch sent them some stuff but no has a form he needs to fill in
[20:53] AndrewRT: _now_
[20:53] AndrewRT: so cf - in progress
[20:53] mpeel: ok
[20:54] mpeel: # Secretary (AT, inc. follow-up of letter)
[20:54] skenmy: I have news on the outstanding membership form
[20:54] skenmy: (sorry!)
[20:54] AndrewRT: go ahead skenmy
[20:54] skenmy: It was sent yesterday - so should arrive tomorrow
[20:54] AndrewRT: lovely we'll pick up next time then
[20:54] mpeel: great
[20:55] AndrewRT: Secretary - nothing extra - all covered elsewhere
[20:55] AndrewRT: follow up of letter not yet done
[20:55] AndrewRT: cf please
[20:55] mpeel: ok. 4. HMRC response (All)
[20:56] AndrewRT: text is up on the wiki
[20:56] mpeel: Tom put the proposed letter at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submission_to_HMRC
[20:57] AndrewRT: I've put some comments up on the talk
[20:57] skenmy: Andrew - having read your comments I think they are sensible.
[20:57] steveV: I have to say I like it as he included a couple of minor amendments of mine
[20:57] skenmy: But we need to get a move on with this.
[20:57] steveV: But that's not to preclude more improvements
[20:58] skenmy: Forget not that we have a self-imposed deadline of the 18th on this.
[20:58] skenmy: Unless we wish to revise that?
[20:58] AndrewRT: The only reason to revise it is if we wanted to wait for legal advice
[20:58] AndrewRT: I forwarded an email round the board from WMF
[20:58] steveV: Is the MMRC application the onky game in town here?  what about the CC?
[20:58] skenmy: Indeed.
[20:58] AndrewRT: they've agreed to pay for a barrister if we want
[20:59] AndrewRT: HMRC response = Charity Commission referal
[20:59] steveV: yes
[20:59] Zeyi: May I clear, if they did accept this, what will happen?
[20:59] mpeel: We'd need £5k of income to apply to CC directly...
[20:59] Seddon: but if referred?
[20:59] AndrewRT: Zeyi: we are asking HMRC to refer the case to the Charity Commission
[21:00] AndrewRT: If they do, the Charity Commission will then consider our case based on our letter and previous letters
[21:00] skenmy: Is there a possibility that the WMF could "supply" us with the £5k in order to apply directly to the CC? The funds would of course go towards initiatives and other activities, but in an up-front sum? incompatible encoding
[21:00] AndrewRT: skenmy - that essentially what we've asked in our request for funds here:
[21:00] steveV: are we?
[21:00] mpeel:        http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters/WMF_grants/WM_UK/Kick_start    
[21:00] steveV: At this stage, I would ask HMRC to review their decision on the application of Wiki UK Limited for charitable status, taking consideration of the points made above.
[21:00] • skenmy nods - I was wondeing if that had been sent
[21:01] mpeel: that grant's with the WMF, and is being considered.
[21:01] Seddon: Tango42>Is there any reason to pressing for a referral, rather than trying to get HMRC to change their minds themselves? It seems to be a referral is only necessary if they stick to their guns
[21:01] AndrewRT:        http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Initiatives/Bid    
[21:01] skenmy: That's what I wanted to hear
[21:01] AndrewRT: to answer Tango's point: I spoke to the guy and he didn't sound like he was going to change his mind
[21:02] skenmy: Can I also clarify something? If we don't send this by the 18th, are we closing any doors? If we do send something, are we potentially ruining any chance of us ever being recognised?
[21:02] mpeel: the 18th is an internal deadline only, isn't it? the HMRC doesn't care when we send them our response?
[21:02] AndrewRT: skenmy - no, there's no deadline
[21:03] skenmy: Right, okay.
[21:03] AndrewRT: we should do it fairly soonish otherwise they'll forget the conversation I had and possibly not agree to refer it to CC
[21:03] • skenmy nods
[21:03] AndrewRT: I meant there's no external deadline of course!
[21:03] steveV: so how about someone laying out options a) XXX b) yyy
[21:04] skenmy: We need someone to take an action on this - to draft the letter
[21:04] skenmy: even if it's just section headers
[21:04] steveV: Send letter (1)
[21:04] AndrewRT: well, we have one letter already
[21:04] AndrewRT: I'll draft an alternative based on my comments
[21:04] skenmy: Indeed - the barristers letter
[21:04] skenmy: Thank you, AndrewRT
[21:04] AndrewRT: if others can also come up with alternatives that would be good
[21:04] steveV: send with AT's additions
[21:05] mpeel: a) send the letter as it is
[21:05] mpeel: b) revise letter internally, then send
[21:05] mpeel: c) consult a barrister formally prior to sending letter
[21:05] skenmy: How long, realistically, will c) take?
[21:05] mpeel: d) not send a letter at all, wait until we have 5K income, and then apply to CC
[21:05] mpeel: any other options?
[21:06] steveV: can you remind me of your additions AT
[21:07] AndrewRT: SteveV - http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Submission_to_HMRC
[21:08] mpeel: can we make all of those modifications ourselves, without outside involvement? Some, e.g. being more legally comprehensive, look like something that would require a lawyer.
[21:08] AndrewRT: (c) - I'd say we're talking weeks
[21:08] skenmy: right
[21:08] steveV: 100% in favout of AT's proposals - a simple frontespiece letter backed by the current letter as support
[21:08] AndrewRT: mpeel - yes, we can make some modifications ourselves, particularly if we keep tom's letter in a separate section and build a letter around it
[21:09] steveV: No to barrister
[21:09] steveV: b)
[21:09] Seddon: b)
[21:09] skenmy: b)
[21:09] AndrewRT: I suggest we discuss again in a week by which time we'll have two options on the table
[21:10] mpeel: I like the idea of a covering letter, along the lines of andrew's suggestions, but would prefer if we at least ran it past the friendly unofficial barrister before it was sent.
[21:10] steveV: I am happy to bat around a letter if someone starts it off - act as a critic and improver of it
[21:10] Zeyi: b)
[21:10] Seddon: i agree mpeel
[21:11] steveV: Keep the current letter - just have a simple explanatory letter as AT suggests supporting it
[21:11] steveV: so b)
[21:11] AndrewRT: Having had the discussion with HMRC, I'm afraid he would find the existing letter quite unpersuasive
[21:11] steveV: so b)
[21:11] AndrewRT: and teh Charity Commission might do so as well
[21:11] steveV: so b)
[21:11] mpeel: ok, I think we've come to a decision here, with an action on Andrew and Steve to write the covering letter.
[21:11] skenmy:                          
[21:11] mpeel: Anything else with HMRC that needs discussing?
[21:11] AndrewRT: ok sure
[21:11] AndrewRT: no
[21:11] skenmy: none here
[21:12] Zeyi: no
[21:12] mpeel: Seddon, steveV ?
[21:12] steveV: I am cool with all of the abve
[21:13] mpeel: let's move on then. 5. Chapter's Agreement (AT)
[21:13] AndrewRT: could we go in camera please
[21:13] mpeel: ok. Apologies to those watching...
[21:13] AndrewRT: I'm sent the address in the window
[21:39] cary joined the chat room.
[21:41] AndrewRT: back in the room
[21:41] Zeyi: back
[21:41] AndrewRT: confidential minutes note additional actions arising from new draft Chapter Agreement
[21:41] skenmy: i return!
[21:41] steveV: ditto
[21:41] mpeel: moving on ... 6. Newsletter (PW)
[21:42] AndrewRT: we got a May one yet?
[21:42] AndrewRT: skenmy?
[21:42] skenmy: Nothing as yet. I am taking suggestions for topics!
[21:42] mpeel: (oh: action on me with the chapters agreement to circulate Tango's comments about the chapter agreement to the rest of the board, and to invite additional comments from the mailing list...)
[21:42] AndrewRT: ok
[21:43] skenmy: Could the newsletter be a good place to keep the membership up to date with the HMRC status, etc?
[21:43] steveV: nice idea
[21:43] AndrewRT: 2 stories at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Newsletter/April2009
[21:43] AndrewRT: New chapter agreement?
[21:43] skenmy: splendid
[21:43] skenmy: that's another good one
[21:43] • skenmy notes down
[21:43] mpeel: meetups should be covered
[21:44] AndrewRT: do you want to ask on the mailing list as well?
[21:44] mpeel: it would be nice if we could cover the activities of other chapters somewhere
[21:44] mpeel: (that was suggested at the AGM, if I recall correctly...)
[21:44] AndrewRT: what's the timetable for this?
[21:44] skenmy: I aim to send on the last day of the month
[21:45] mpeel: outcome of the wikimaina bid should also be reported.
[21:45] mpeel: *wikimania
[21:45] AndrewRT: shall we keep to last day of the month?
[21:45] skenmy: mpeel, need to have a chat with you re: on-wiki distribution
[21:45] mpeel: skenmy: ok, after the meeting?
[21:45] skenmy: It was last day of month last month because of the short amount of time I had to prepare
[21:45] skenmy: mpeel - splendid
[21:46] AndrewRT: minor point - if we do, I'd rather we had it on the first day - i.e. make it a June one
[21:46] AndrewRT: sounds more up to date!
[21:46] skenmy: okay - so perhaps we could "skip" the May newsletter?
[21:46] skenmy: (of course, noting this in the newsletter)
[21:46] mpeel: could we have the may issue around the 20th, perhaps, and slowly work backwards to the 1st?
[21:46] skenmy: That seems feasible.
[21:46] AndrewRT: yeah I'd prefer mpeel's suggestion
[21:47] AndrewRT: we've got quite a bit to report bac after all1
[21:47] AndrewRT: all!
[21:47] skenmy: indeed!
[21:47] AndrewRT: can we write by next week?
[21:47] AndrewRT: send out on20th?
[21:47] skenmy: that seems fine.
[21:47] Zeyi: that's fine
[21:47] mpeel: shall we aim to do that, and review at the next meeting?
[21:48] AndrewRT: skenmy - do you want to assign sections to different people?
[21:48] skenmy: thats an action me - watch the newsletter page and input wherever appropriate, please!
[21:48] AndrewRT: is it not action skenmy to write the May newsletter 
[21:49] skenmy: action me to draft and assign sections
[21:49] AndrewRT: ok!
[21:49] steveV: I am 'busy' but happy to help on edit - if you send a link and point me at it
[21:49] skenmy: Thanks!
[21:49] mpeel: email reminders would be good
[21:49] skenmy: I aim to have the draft up in a couple of days
[21:49] AndrewRT: whilst we're in IRC, should we get help on teh meet ups?
[21:49] skenmy: I will send out emails
[21:49] skenmy: AndrewRT, how do you mean?
[21:50] AndrewRT: looking at the list it's just London 21
[21:50] skenmy: indeed
[21:50] skenmy: looks rather empty
[21:50] AndrewRT: is anyone going?
[21:50] skenmy: I am hoping to but not definite
[21:50] AndrewRT: ah Majorly!
[21:51] AndrewRT: he's down at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/London_21
[21:51] AndrewRT: may be worth having a word with him now in case u dont make it
[21:51] mpeel: shall we continue, and have that request happen in parallel?
[21:51] skenmy: sure
[21:51] AndrewRT: sure
[21:52] mpeel: 6. Website (MP; inc. Phorm, emails, OTRS, private wiki)
[21:52] mpeel: "The hosting for the wikimedia.org.uk site has lapsed, causing the email addresses to stop working; AT to follow up taking ownership and re-assigning the email addresses."
[21:52] mpeel: I've followed this up: all of the email addresses are now working again, some new ones added, and redirects exist on the .co.uk domain.
[21:52] mpeel: please, test your email addresses, and make sure they all go to the correct places...
[21:52] AndrewRT: ok
[21:52] skenmy: works for me!
[21:53] mpeel: A number of the email addresses forward to the new OTRS queue
[21:53] mpeel: however, there are technical issues with that
[21:53] mpeel: messages sent to the queue address aren't getting through to the WMUK queue
[21:53] Seddon: any reason why?
[21:53] mpeel: at the moment, I'm also forwarding all of the emails to myself, and am forwarding on the non-spam ones
[21:53] mpeel: it's a technical reason, to do with the way that the queue filters work
[21:54] skenmy: Could we possibly have individual "position" emails? volunteers@, initiatives@, corporate@, events@ ? For future stability, mostly
[21:54] Seddon: brb
[21:54] mpeel: confereneces@ and corporate@ already exist
[21:54] skenmy: sorry - missed those in the email
[21:55] mpeel: I think I added them after I sent the email...
[21:55] mpeel: zeyi, skenmy, do you want volunteers@ and initiatives@ setting up?
[21:55] skenmy: I would like volunteers@
[21:55] steveV: corporate@ exists?
[21:55] mpeel: steveV: yes
[21:56] mpeel: skenmy: I'll set volunteers@ up later (please action me...)
[21:56] Zeyi: yes,initiatives@ is good for me
[21:56] skenmy: Thanks, Mike.
[21:56] AndrewRT: k
[21:56] skenmy: My personal address works fine
[21:56] mpeel: Zeyi: ok, I'll also set that up. 
[21:56] mpeel: OTRS: does everyone have access, and is everyone happy with the current workaround?
[21:56] AndrewRT: have we agreed to discontinue personal email addresses for ex Board members?
[21:57] Zeyi: thanks
[21:57] skenmy: I have access and am happy as I am aware of the technical issues.
[21:57] AndrewRT: OTRS: I haven't checked
[21:57] steveV: ditto
[21:57] AndrewRT: i couldn't get in
[21:57] AndrewRT: I could get into the wiki
[21:58] AndrewRT: but not the email queue itself
[21:58] skenmy: As a former (and now current) OTRS agent, I am willing to provide instructions WRT OTRS if anyone is scared of the interface - it's pretty daunting at firs
[21:58] skenmy: t
[21:58] steveV: please
[21:58] skenmy: bare in mind that you must first request a new password
[21:58] AndrewRT: please - could you email me something round?
[21:58] skenmy: sure thing
[21:58] mpeel: thanks skenmy
[21:58] mpeel: does anyone object to AndrewRT's point above about personal email addresses for ex-Board members?
[21:59] AndrewRT: thsi was per a previous email
[21:59] AndrewRT: so mickey.conn@wikimedia.org.uk (for instance) should be disabled
[21:59] skenmy: do they still get email?
[22:00] mpeel: they shouldn't still be getting email at those addresses, if they've only been used for chapter business...
[22:00] mpeel: if they are, then those emails should probably go to their replacements...
[22:00] • skenmy nods
[22:01] AndrewRT: I'm not sure we'd know if they do or dont
[22:01] mpeel: ok, I guess everyone's happy with that (please shout if you're not)
[22:02] skenmy: Happy.
[22:02] steveV: happy
[22:02] mpeel: another action: "It was agreed that the owner of the WikimediaUK-L email list be set to the OTRS account so that board members' inboxes are not put under more pressure. Board members are to be given access to the OTRS account."
[22:02] Zeyi: ok
[22:02] mpeel: shall we delay that until OTRS is working properly?
[22:02] skenmy: agree
[22:02] AndrewRT: yes please
[22:02] steveV: yes
[22:02] mpeel: "It was agreed that Wikimedia UK would opt out of Phorm, using a statement similar to the ones used by the WMF and other chapters." Action: AT.
[22:03] AndrewRT: I was waiting until the domain is transferred over
[22:03] mpeel: good - carry forward, then?
[22:03] AndrewRT: pls
[22:03] steveV: yes
[22:03] mpeel: with the domain transfers: wikimedia.co.uk has been transferred, wikimedia.org.uk is still in the process of being transferred.
[22:03] mpeel: I've updated the address for wikimedia.co.uk
[22:03] mpeel: however, there is a charge to update the registrant information for the domains
[22:03] mpeel: £10 + VAT
[22:03] skenmy: Nominet will squeeze you for every penny on that transfer, mpeel
[22:04] skenmy: Going with Nominet was a bad mistake 
[22:04] Seddon_ joined the chat room.
[22:04] Seddon_ was granted voice by ChanServ.
[22:04] AndrewRT: how many domains are there again?
[22:04] mpeel: sadly, they have a monopoly.
[22:04] mpeel: 2
[22:04] mpeel: wikimedia.co.uk and .org.uk
[22:04] AndrewRT: £20 then
[22:04] mpeel: £20 + VAT
[22:04] AndrewRT: I'm happy for that
[22:04] mpeel: so  £23
[22:04] Seddon left the chat room. (Nick collision from services.)
[22:04] AndrewRT: it's a cost of the chapter so it makes sense us paying for it
[22:05] Seddon_ is now known as Seddon.
[22:05] AndrewRT: we need a website after all!
[22:05] mpeel: is everyone else happy for us to pay those fees?
[22:05] skenmy: This smells rotten to me. I'd like to take a quick look into it before we pay (literally a couple of days)
[22:05] mpeel: please do
[22:05] Seddon: sory about that
[22:05] skenmy: I've never had to pay for a domain change before.
[22:05] Seddon: but there is no need for us to opt out
[22:05] mpeel: it's if you're changing the registrant information
[22:05] AndrewRT: skenmy - did you see the email mpeel sent round?
[22:05] mpeel: i.e. the formal owner of the domain
[22:05] skenmy: mpeel - I've done that without charrge before, too
[22:06] mpeel: KTC: skenmy, Nominet charge for transfer between different people
[22:06] mpeel: [22:06] KTC: they waive the fee for charity and other exception
[22:06] skenmy: If we have to pay, we have to pay - but it would rest my mind to have a quick investigation beforehand.
[22:06] AndrewRT: ok so action mpeel to confirm, but otherwise happy to pay?
[22:06] mpeel: it's not urgent, so I'm happy for investigation to happen. 
[22:07] skenmy: I'm happy to investigate if not mpeel
[22:07] Seddon: is happy either way
[22:07] AndrewRT: ok skenmy then
[22:07] • Seddon points to my phorm opt out commet
[22:07] Seddon: comment*
[22:07] steveV: go skenmy - you the man for this
[22:07] AndrewRT: ah, makes sense now Seddon
[22:07] mpeel: Seddon: could you explain?
[22:08] AndrewRT: should explain: £10 is fee to nominet to transfer domain
[22:08] AndrewRT: we were waiting till that happened before opting out of Phorm
[22:08] Seddon: uk.wikimedia.org is already opted out due it being part of the wikimedia.org domain
[22:08] mpeel: www.wikimedia.org.uk isn't though
[22:08] Seddon: but its a uk domain
[22:08] Seddon: and a uk registered domain
[22:08] AndrewRT: skenmy - presume you've seen KTC's links on #wikimedia-uk
[22:08] skenmy: have indeed
[22:08] skenmy: thank you
[22:09] AndrewRT: I dont understant Seddon?
[22:09] mpeel: Seddon: it doesn't matter where the domain is registered...
[22:10] Seddon: I was under the impression that phorm was only going to be used for domains outside the uk
[22:10] AndrewRT: oh
[22:10] AndrewRT: interesting point
[22:10] Seddon: we need to get that clarified
[22:10] mpeel: I'd be amazed if that was the case, considering they're gathering information for advertisements within the UK...
[22:10] AndrewRT: well, I'll take that as an action to look into
[22:10] mpeel: amazon.co.uk have opted out
[22:12] mpeel: last item in this section (and I believe, the last action to be discussed), is "MP agreed to look into setting up a Board-only private wiki for sharing confidential documents."
[22:12] mpeel: I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be investigating here - it's technically possible, it just needs setting up.
[22:12] mpeel: I would be happy to provide webspace to host a private wiki, and set it up, if everyone here's happy with that.
[22:12] skenmy: can we action a bug request be filed?
[22:12] skenmy: or are we doing it off-site?
[22:12] mpeel: we shouldn't have this hosted with the WMF
[22:13] mpeel: as that means that they have access to it
[22:13] mpeel: so it's inherently not board-only
[22:13] AndrewRT: can it be done on-site?
[22:13] skenmy: right - well I have webspace available for free if it's going to cost you anything, mpeel
[22:13] mpeel: it won't cost me anything extra.
[22:14] mpeel: the alternative is that we can get some external hosting, from a proper web hosting company.
[22:14] skenmy: if the space you have is free then that's fine by me
[22:14] Seddon: 13 minutes guys
[22:14] AndrewRT: advantage of paying for it is we have continuity with a new board
[22:15] skenmy: this is true
[22:15] mpeel: I can set it up essentially as a seperate account (I have a reseller account), so that it could be passed on afterwards.
[22:15] mpeel: if that's not suitable, then it should be easy to relocate the wiki to new webspace
[22:16] AndrewRT: can we move on?
[22:16] mpeel: is everyone happy?
[22:16] skenmy: can we action, first?
[22:16] skenmy: i'm happy wherever it is
[22:17] mpeel: action is on me to set up a private board wiki on wikimedia.org.uk
[22:17] Seddon: im happy
[22:17] AndrewRT: ok
[22:17] skenmy: next?
[22:17] mpeel: final thing with websites: please, develop the pages on the wiki! e.g. the "Donate" page is awful...
[22:18] mpeel: 7. Initiatives (ZH)
[22:18] skenmy: Zeyi?
[22:18] mpeel: this meeting seems to have been mostly admin-orientated ... we were talking about alternating between admin and initiatives; how do we want to do that?
[22:19] steveV: Speaking for the newbies
[22:19] steveV: It will take a little time for us to find our feet
[22:19] skenmy: Remove admin stuff from the agenda
[22:19] steveV: Initiatives and corporate ones will come
[22:19] skenmy: steveV, absolutely 
[22:19] Zeyi: yes, i need to follow a while
[22:19] steveV: but give us some air
[22:19] steveV:                          
[22:20] AndrewRT: overall, I'd like us to set a target for initiatives - say three completed by the next AGM
[22:20] AndrewRT: steveV - sure!
[22:20] steveV: reasonable
[22:20] AndrewRT: skenmy - so what did we spend too much time on today?
[22:20] mpeel: AndrewRT: that sounds good.
[22:21] AndrewRT: what worked well with the last board was having a timeline
[22:21] Seddon: the phorm and wiki related stuff could moved out of meetings
[22:21] Seddon: no need for that discussion in meetings
[22:21] skenmy: Zeyi - does that sound reasonable? (3 initiatives completed by the next AGM)
[22:22] AndrewRT: Seddon - I agree, stuff like that can be decided outside of meeting
[22:22] mpeel: you could argue the same with initiatives - discuss them on the wiki first, and then bring them here when they are ready to be discussed by the board.
[22:22] steveV: On corporate 'Gdansk being selected' was a bit of a knock in terms of one corporate sponsor
[22:22] Zeyi: yes, sure, and I also have some proposal, will send aruond late
[22:22] steveV: and a second one has little in the field in Poland
[22:22] Seddon: however i feel that the hmrc and chapter agreement needs real time stuff
[22:22] skenmy: splendid news
[22:23] AndrewRT: steveV - yeah understand!
[22:23] steveV: so it may have cost me two leads
[22:23] mpeel: steveV: could those leads be persuaded to support a UK-only conference?
[22:23] steveV: Perhaps
[22:23] steveV: needs more fleshing out
[22:24] AndrewRT: on initiatives
[22:24] AndrewRT: one thing that worked well with the last board
[22:24] steveV: similarly I have speaking engagements for myself that i could slip Wiki people on to
[22:24] AndrewRT: was havign a timeline
[22:24] AndrewRT: could we do the same for initiatives?
[22:25] mpeel: a timeline would be good, but I'm not sure what the goals on it would be....
[22:25] AndrewRT: By end June - the three initiatives identified
[22:25] mpeel: it worked well before because there were a number of goals that we wanted to reach.
[22:25] Zeyi: ok, and I also prefer to do some projects relevant charity purpose
[22:25] steveV: AT - I believe you will be speaking to Florence (the one with the cool presentations) - I would like to have those for corporate purposes
[22:25] steveV: could you ask her
[22:25] AndrewRT: steveV - sure
[22:26] AndrewRT: we're about to run out of time
[22:26] AndrewRT: can we get some actions on initiatives?
[22:27] mpeel: all to discuss initiatives on the wiki?
[22:27] Zeyi: is that possible every one give me suggestions about my duty and we discuss next time?
[22:27] mpeel: with the aim of encouraging their development
[22:27] AndrewRT: hmm, action: all never seems to work
[22:28] AndrewRT: I can do that - how about everyone else?
[22:28] skenmy: i think we need more discussion
[22:28] skenmy: so I will agree
[22:28] skenmy: and chip in as much as possible
[22:28] AndrewRT: could you come up with one suggestion by next meeting?
[22:28] skenmy: certainly
[22:28] mpeel: suggestion of what?
[22:28] AndrewRT: Seddon could you?
[22:29] AndrewRT: Zeyi>is that possible every one give me suggestions about my duty
[22:29] skenmy: an initiative
[22:29] steveV: I can try
[22:29] Seddon: yes
[22:29] Seddon: im already in discussion with icommons so hopefully something can come from that
[22:29] AndrewRT: so action AT, JS, PW
[22:29] Zeyi: prefer particular, thanks.
[22:30] mpeel: there's lots of initiative ideas on http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Initiatives/Ideas - although it wolud be great to add to them, we really need to work out how to take those ideas and turn them into working initiatives...
[22:30] AndrewRT: how about MP?
[22:30] mpeel: preferably with lots of involvement from the wider community
[22:30] • skenmy wants to flesh out a couple of ideas
[22:30] Seddon: Zeyi, particular?
[22:30] skenmy: Hear that, membership? We want your ideas! *points*]
[22:30] steveV: 'private'
[22:31] Seddon: skenmy, bring it up in next newsletter
[22:31] skenmy: good idea!
[22:31] mpeel: AndrewRT: I'm happy to take an action on this.
[22:31] steveV: I'd like to be able to develop a presentation on who we are and what we do - that the board could sign off on
[22:31] mpeel: we're coming to the end of the meeting ... shall we move on?
[22:31] AndrewRT: ok, I'll action AT, JS, PW, SV, MP to send their suggestions to ZH
[22:32] AndrewRT: steveV - great idea!
[22:32] steveV: Then put it 'out there' to membership and encourage them to go and sell the wiki message to everyone
[22:32] Seddon: can we get a brief statement on what the cultural initiatives was and then forward it to the front of the queue from next meeting?
[22:32] steveV: with tools they can do it
[22:32] Seddon: and the same with 10 ?
[22:32] skenmy: I'd love some involvement in that steveV - that sounds like it could work for both corporate and volunteers
[22:32] steveV: yep
[22:32] mpeel: ok
[22:32] steveV: Hence my Florence point earlier - let's not reinvent the wheel
[22:32] AndrewRT: 10 can wait
[22:33] AndrewRT: till next time
[22:33] AndrewRT: I'll forward an email
[22:33] skenmy: I assume mpeel is typing re: #9?
[22:33] Seddon: ok
[22:33] mpeel: #9 there isn't really much to discuss at the moment
[22:33] mpeel: it needs time to develop
[22:33] mpeel: (and I need to put more time into persuing leads...)
[22:33] Seddon: i have one point for AOCB
[22:34] mpeel: ok, AOCB. Seddon ?
[22:34] skenmy: one from me, too, but it's very minor
[22:34] Seddon: As you all may know from cary's post there is now a wikimedia ireland mailing list
[22:34] AndrewRT: yep
[22:35] Zeyi: Actually, I have two meeting last week with staff in uni to discuss "Running campaigns in universities and schools encouraging students and academics to edit "
[22:35] Seddon: i really think that we should support the creation of an Ireland chapter
[22:35] Seddon: obviously we have alot on our hands anyway
[22:35] AndrewRT: Zeyi - excellent! could you send teh details in an email to board@wikimedia.org.uk?
[22:35] AndrewRT: Seddon - what could we do to help?
[22:36] Zeyi: ok, I will, 'cause i do need more help on thiss. They give some nice ideas
[22:36] steveV: Both zeyi (we'll done) and Seddon (any ideas I''l do what i can)
[22:36] steveV: well done I mean
[22:36] AndrewRT: I've joined the WM-IE mailing list
[22:37] AndrewRT: and I'll offer to help if/when any chapter proposal comes up
[22:37] Seddon: well firstly given the difficulty of NI editors being involved with WMUK we need to simply get thoughts together on negotiating some sort of arrangement for NI editors to be involved with and IE chapter
[22:37] mpeel: I agree that supporting the creation of WMIE would be good - but am wary that there's a lack of irish people currently involved with that mailing list...
[22:37] steveV: If we could develop a who we are and what we do presentation we could share it with irish members as well
[22:37] Seddon: mpeel: then its something we need to help improve on 
[22:37] steveV: that'll help them with recruitment
[22:37] AndrewRT: we cover the whole of the UK
[22:38] mpeel: our remit runs to nothern ireland, not ROI though.
[22:38] AndrewRT: if we have lots of WM people in NI we could encourage them to set up a branch - WM-NI
[22:38] skenmy: i'll put the -ie mailing list in the newsletter
[22:38] mpeel: that's a good idea skenmy
[22:39] skenmy: done with IE?
[22:39] AndrewRT: is that your point covered Seddon?
[22:39] Seddon: but i do think that some sort of agreement should be made allowing members from NI to join IE
[22:39] Seddon: but thats for the furture
[22:39] Seddon: just wanted to bring it up as it was applicable to the IE lit
[22:39] Seddon: list*
[22:39] AndrewRT: Seddon - agree, needs to be sorted out if/when WM-IE gets set up
[22:39] skenmy: very very quick one from me
[22:40] Seddon: im done
[22:40] skenmy: My point is merely the subject of business cards. If i'm out and about meeting and greeting (London Meetup, etc) then it may be useful for me to have some. Do we want to centralise this within the chapter or shall I get a batch designed, approved, and printed for me? I don't mind fronting the cost for my own 
[22:40] AndrewRT: chapter should pay for this kind of thing
[22:40] mpeel: centralising it with the chapter would be good
[22:40] AndrewRT: talk to TH?
[22:40] mpeel: those would also be useful for interactions with museums etc., and I guess corporate too.
[22:40] Seddon: im sure thats a issue somewhere
[22:40] • Seddon racks his brains
[22:41] Seddon: is it mentioned in the new chapters agreement?
[22:41] Seddon: or the old one?
[22:41] mpeel: other chapters probably have standard designs that we can use
[22:41] Seddon: ok cool
[22:41] skenmy: splendid
[22:41] AndrewRT: could you follow it up for everyone?
[22:41] skenmy: I shall research and forward findings / whatnot to the Board
[22:42] AndrewRT: cheers!
[22:42] mpeel: skenmy: do you have access to internal? there's a template available on there.
[22:42] skenmy: I do.
[22:42] skenmy: re: internal - see the email I forwarded to board@
[22:42] mpeel: I'll send an email around with the link.
[22:42] skenmy: It's quite relevant
[22:42] skenmy: but for discussion outside of the meeting
[22:43] mpeel: ok, AOCB?
[22:43] skenmy: None.
[22:43] AndrewRT: none from me
[22:43] Zeyi: none
[22:43] steveV: check your mails have sent something vis the presentation idea
[22:43] Seddon: mpeel: can you copy business card to uk wiki please
[22:44] steveV: but none other than that
[22:44] mpeel: Seddon: I'll ask permission to do that.
[22:44] mpeel: ok, date of next meeting
[22:44] mpeel: tuesday 19 may?
[22:44] steveV: ok
[22:44] AndrewRT: sure
[22:44] mpeel: 8.30-10.30-ish
[22:44] AndrewRT: after that could we talk about going back to fortnightly meetings?
[22:45] mpeel: AndrewRT: could we do that when we start having meetings under 2 hours? 
[22:45] AndrewRT: and make it 8:30-10:30 sharp rather than ish
[22:45] steveV: slave driver
[22:45] AndrewRT: mpeel - that'll never happen
[22:45] AndrewRT: "work expands to fit time available" and all that
[22:46] mpeel: let's see how we go
[22:47] mpeel: ok, meeting closed at 22.46. thanks for coming, all, and see you next week.

#wikimedia-uk

[20:33] steveV joined the chat room.
[20:34] Seddon:        #wikimedia-uk-board    
[20:36] KTC joined the chat room.
[20:36] KTC: hi
[20:36] Seddon was promoted to operator by ChanServ.
[20:36] KTC: i had a note / question on it on the wiki
[20:36] steveV was granted voice by Seddon.
[20:36] KTC: (got here just in time! :D)
[20:36] mpeel: meeting has started, btw
[20:36] Seddon was demoted from operator by Seddon.
[20:38] KTC:        http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Meetings/2009-05-05    
[20:38] mpeel: thanks KTC
[20:45] • KTC wave for Zeyi to come on here as well 
[20:47] Tango42: I've PMed her
[20:47] • KTC did wonder where it was / when it was going to arrived 
[20:48] skenmy:                          
[20:48] skenmy: don't get cocky!
[20:48] AndrewRT: hehe
[20:48] Tango42: what form does this token take?
[20:48] AndrewRT: it's a surprise!!
[20:49] mpeel: hopefully a good surprise...
[20:49] KTC: hmmm
[20:50] Tango42: KTC, let me know what it is when you get it!
[20:50] Tango42: I'm curious now
[20:50] KTC: i'm not now! 
[20:50] KTC: scared 
[20:51] Tango42: lol
[20:51] Tango42: I don't expect Seddon will send you anthrax, but anything is possible!
[20:52] KTC: Seddon, i live at Over Here, Earth, Solar System, Local Interstellar Cloud, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Observable universe, Universe
[20:52] KTC: make sure you put that on the post 
[20:53] Seddon: KTC, I see if that can be arranged 
[21:00] Tango42: Is there any reason to pressing for a referral, rather than trying to get HMRC to change their minds themselves? It seems to be a referral is only necessary if they stick to their guns
[21:00] KTC: different set of lawyers / ppl looking at it
[21:00] KTC: suppose expert
[21:01] KTC: and the fact that it will make things easier (i'm guessing) if we turn 5K
[21:01] KTC: since CC will look at it then anyway
[21:01] Tango42: yeah, I understand the concept of a referral, but it doesn't matter who makes the decision as long as the one we want is made. A referral will take longer than just getting HMRC to change their minds.
[21:02] Tango42: It might make it marginally easier, but I don't think to a sufficient extent to warrant taking longer now
[21:02] AndrewRT: Tango42: I spoke to the guy and he didn't sound like he was going to change his mind
[21:03] Tango42: Yeah, but he hadn't been bombarded by legalese at that point
[21:08] markie|uni is now known as markie.
[21:14] KTC: CABAL! CABAL! CABAL!
[21:14] KTC:                          
[21:14] Tango42: I thought you had fought Godwin tooth and nail so we could discuss the chapters agreement publicly?
[21:15] AndrewRT: nope - he conceeded straight away on that one!
[21:15] AndrewRT: just dont want to discuss tactic where they can be overheard by our opponents!
[21:15] Tango42: (Someone finally got the cabal-shout correct, it's a miracle!)
[21:15] AndrewRT:                          
[21:15] Tango42: I thought he conceded it could be sent to members but took some persuading to get it totally public
[21:16] Tango42: Yeah, I can't dispute that.
[21:16] Tango42: I've sent a long list of concerns to mpeel, so hopefully he will pass on whatever is relevant to your discussion
[21:16] mpeel: I'm not sure "opponents" is the right word to use here...
[21:16] AndrewRT: hehe
[21:17] skenmy: I assume it was tongue in cheek 
[21:17] AndrewRT: ah thanks Tango
[21:17] Tango42: friendly rivals?
[21:17] AndrewRT: indeed it was skenmy!
[21:34] • Tango42 watches the tumbleweed
[21:34] AndrewRT: back soon!
[21:35] AndrewRT: btw have you put your comments on the wiki Tango42?
[21:35] KTC: that's what they always say 
[21:35] Tango42: no, I just sent everything to mpeel, he can worry about what to do with it all!
[21:36] Seddon: mpeel: could you forward the email on to the board  i know youv been behind on them 
[21:39] mpeel: yes; I will do.
[21:39] cary joined the chat room.
[21:41] Seddon: hey cary
[21:41] KTC: hi
[21:41] cary: yo
[21:44] AndrewRT: any ideas for things that should be in the May newsletter?
[21:50] GDonato_ joined the chat room.
[21:50] AndrewRT: Majorly you going to London 21 wikimeet?
[21:57] KTC: never used it, and it stopped working before the other one anyway 
[22:01] Majorly: indeed
[22:03] AndrewRT: could you do a few words for our newsletter?
[22:04] Seddon_ joined the chat room.
[22:04] Seddon_ was granted voice by ChanServ.
[22:04] Seddon left the chat room. (Nick collision from services.)
[22:05] Seddon_ is now known as Seddon.
[22:05] KTC: skenmy, Nominet charge for transfer between different people
[22:06] KTC: they waive the fee for charity and other exception
[22:06] GDonato left the chat room. (Connection timed out)
[22:06] KTC: but what with HMRC atm, we'll prob be unsucc
[22:07] mpeel: thanks KTC - will be interesting to see what proof they need of being a charity, if that's the case...
[22:07] KTC:        http://www.nominet.org.uk/registrants/maintain/transfer/    
[22:07] KTC:        http://www.nominet.org.uk/registrants/maintain/transfer/non-chargeable/    
[22:09] skenmy: thanks KTC
[22:09] KTC: np 
[22:09] mpeel: I couldn't see any of those non-chargable options that applied to us...
[22:13] KTC: i thought you guys wanted it pay for by the company...
[22:13] KTC: i.e. not by individual board member
[22:14] AndrewRT: yeah bt I think it's free
[22:14] mpeel: that's what was discussed at the last board meeting ... not clear why that matters particularly, though.
[22:37] cary: mpeel, I just created the list yesterday 
[22:39] mpeel: cary: sure.  am still worried that it's non-irish people taking the lead with it, though...
[22:39] cary: Alison C is a moderator
[22:39] cary: she's as Irish as it gets
[22:40] AndrewRT: do you knwo where she's from?
[22:40] Majorly: fail
[22:40] cary: Yes
[22:40] KTC: the idea came from.... cary? who's in american 
[22:40] Majorly: Ireland
[22:40] cary: I cant even understand her half the time
[22:40] cary: I have to ask her to repeat herself
[22:41] AndrewRT: where?
[22:41] cary: Kilkilcolkillarneylany
[22:41] cary: I just made that up
[22:42] AndrewRT: I was just wondering North or South
[22:42] cary: South Kilkilcolkillarneylany
[22:42] AndrewRT: haha
[22:42] cary:                          
[22:42] AndrewRT: Northern or Southern Ireland
[22:42] Tango42: You mean Northern or Republic?
[22:42] AndrewRT: I'm sure you knew what I meant!
[22:42] cary: Thank you Tango42
[22:42] cary: "Southern Ireland"
[22:42] • cary firebombs AndrewRT
[22:43] AndrewRT: hmmm
[22:43] Tango42: So, where is she from?
[22:43] cary: She's ROI Irish
[22:43] Tango42: ty
[22:43] AndrewRT: you sure about that?
[22:43] cary: Yes
[22:43] AndrewRT: right, good
[22:44] AndrewRT: I appreciate these things can be a bit of a technicality when you're so far away 
[22:45] Tango42: AndrewRT: "back to"? When did we have fortnightly meetings?
[22:45] mpeel: there were a couple that were spaced out by a fortnight
[22:45] mpeel: not many, tohugh...
[22:46] AndrewRT: we used to
[22:46] Tango42: yeah, occasional a weekly meeting would be skipped for some reason, but I don't remember there ever being an intentional fortnightly schedule
[22:46] AndrewRT: Dec - March http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings#2008-2009_Board_meetings
[22:47] KTC: it was intended
[22:47] AndrewRT: it used to be fortnightly but weekly when we needed to
[22:47] KTC: it just didn't last
[22:47] AndrewRT: in practice a lot were weekly
[22:47] AndrewRT: that's ok when we're starting out - now we should be moving to "Business as usual"