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[20:26] • skenmy rings the meeting bell - AndrewRT, cfp, mpeel, Seddon, steveV
[20:27] AndrewRT: hi
[20:27] AndrewRT: ready to start?
[20:27] • skenmy is ready
[20:27] steveV: ok
[20:27] • Seddon is ready but is revising
[20:27] mpeel: have we heard anything from zeyi?
[20:27] skenmy: Nothing here
[20:28] steveV: no
[20:28] AndrewRT: can someone ring her?
[20:28] cfp: (i'm here btw, but i'm afraid i'm still in crunch mode so if i go quiet for a bit assume i have nothing to say on the matter in hand)
[20:28] mpeel: does anyone have her number?
[20:28] AndrewRT: ah
[20:28] AndrewRT: text from her: cant make mtg
[20:29] mpeel:                          
[20:29] mpeel: ok, let's start
[20:29] mpeel: The agenda is at
[20:29] mpeel: Apologies for absence - just Zeyi
[20:29] mpeel: 2. Minutes of Meeting dated 2009-05-12 - approval & actions
[20:29] mpeel: Minutes are at
[20:29] mpeel: everyone happy?
[20:29] skenmy: No objections
[20:29] Seddon: none
[20:30] AndrewRT: mpeel u ok about your action on cultural partnerships?
[20:30] mpeel: I still can't find where I agreed to it, but am happy for the action to exist...
[20:30] mpeel: (haven't managed to do anything about it, but that's another issue)
[20:30] AndrewRT: thanks
[20:30] AndrewRT: I've cf
[20:31] AndrewRT: actions:
[20:31] AndrewRT: JS to send a token of our appreciation to the retiring Directors,
[20:31] AndrewRT: in progress Seddon?
[20:32] Seddon: indeed, will be delayed a week as im bogged down with exams atm
[20:32] AndrewRT: cf to next meeting
[20:32] mpeel: steveV: cfp: AndrewRT: are you happy with the minutes, before we go through the actions?
[20:32] AndrewRT: I did send round the addresses hope they were ok
[20:32] cfp: yes i'm happy.
[20:32] steveV: yes
[20:32] AndrewRT: me I'm happy with mins yes
[20:32] mpeel: thanks - sorry for interrupting andrew
[20:32] Seddon: i got the addresses and they were great 
[20:32] AndrewRT: cfp next one is yours
[20:33] AndrewRT: any progress on bank account?
[20:33] AndrewRT: or shall we cf?
[20:33] cfp: yes. i'm afraid i've done nothing on it, as i'm still in crisis. it'll be done by next week
[20:33] AndrewRT: thanks
[20:33] AndrewRT: Mike has indeed set up the private wiki
[20:33] AndrewRT: at
[20:33] mpeel: yup
[20:34] mpeel: any suggestions for a better name/location?L
[20:34] skenmy: Looks fine to me
[20:34] AndrewRT:    
[20:34] mpeel: the risk is confusing it with
[20:34] AndrewRT: indeed
[20:34] skenmy: can I just suggest that we refer to it as UKInternal?
[20:34] skenmy: or rename to "private"
[20:35] skenmy: <Tango42> Question: Where is the private wiki hosted?
[20:35] AndrewRT: mpeel?
[20:35] mpeel: on the domain, using webspace provided by me.
[20:35] mpeel: I have a reseller account with - the domain has a seperate account on there.
[20:36] mpeel: (as in, account on the reseller account that I have)
[20:36] cfp: is it costing you anything
[20:36] cfp: do you want to claim
[20:36] mpeel: no more than it would cost me otherwise, so I'm happy not claiming
[20:36] Seddon: Tango42>is that your own server or your own webspace on a remote host of some description?
[20:36] mpeel: see above...
[20:37] mpeel: shall I move the site to then?
[20:37] AndrewRT: personally I'd prefer that but not sure it matters too much
[20:38] skenmy: Seems sensible.
[20:38] Seddon: or
[20:38] AndrewRT: yeah like Seddon's idea
[20:38] skenmy: aye, thirded.
[20:38] mpeel: ok, please action me to move it to then.
[20:38] AndrewRT: will do
[20:39] AndrewRT: >> PW will talk to SV and ZH to get them set up with an account on IRC and give them operator rights.
[20:39] AndrewRT: understand this is cf
[20:39] AndrewRT: Steve could contact Paul about this?
[20:39] AndrewRT: and vice versa
[20:39] steveV: I am happy to talk to my lovely lively colleagues at any time
[20:39] AndrewRT: cheers!
[20:39] AndrewRT: > PW will investigate whether the domain can occur free of charge;
[20:39] skenmy: I intend on writing an email on the subject - far too many commands to explain over the phone 
[20:40] AndrewRT: now happy that it cant unfortunately!
[20:40] AndrewRT: >> MP is authorised to pay the £23 transfer fee - done mpeel?
[20:40] mpeel: not yet - waiting for the other domain to be transferred first
[20:40] mpeel: (james still has )
[20:40] AndrewRT: perhaps should be "now _agrees_ that it cant unfortunately"
[20:40] AndrewRT: huh? dont understand
[20:40] skenmy: agrees sounds better 
[20:41] AndrewRT: mpeel?
[20:41] skenmy: I was, in fact, confused between registrar transfers and contact detail transfers
[20:41] mpeel: the domain is now on the WMUK account at, but the domain isn't yet
[20:41] AndrewRT: ah
[20:41] AndrewRT: ok so one down one to go!
[20:41] mpeel: that needs to take place first, before I can request the registrar name change
[20:41] mpeel: james has been away, so that's slowed this down - he's back now, so hopefully progress will be made in the near future...
[20:41] AndrewRT: right
[20:41] AndrewRT: I'll note that and cf then
[20:42] cfp: i've had a membership form from our mystery new member. we'll discuss it in TR i presume.
[20:42] AndrewRT: is the payment for or for
[20:42] mpeel: the £23 is for both
[20:42] gdonato joined the chat room.
[20:42] AndrewRT: i see
[20:42] AndrewRT: good news cfp thanks for that!
[20:42] AndrewRT: I'd like to c/f AT is to respond to the pressure group whose letter had been received
[20:43] AndrewRT: been too busy this week!
[20:43] AndrewRT: >> AT will investigate whether it is possible for UK domains to opt out of Phorm and, if so, send the opt out letter along the lines of this once the domain has been transferred.
[20:43] AndrewRT: I've clarified that yes it is possible for UK domains
[20:43] AndrewRT: but waiting till transfer above is complete before this is done
[20:43] AndrewRT: so thats actions all complete!
[20:43] AndrewRT: 14 mins is that a record?
[20:44] skenmy: ...
[20:44] mpeel: there were actions further down the minutes too - discuss those in the individual sections?
[20:44] skenmy: i see more actions 
[20:44] AndrewRT: oo soooorry
[20:44] skenmy: keep gooing!
[20:44] AndrewRT: HMRC response - I did email mine around
[20:44] AndrewRT: we'll come to that later
[20:44] AndrewRT: MP has done his actions on the new chapter agreement
[20:45] AndrewRT: newsletter - Paul have you started that?
[20:45] AndrewRT: yes
[20:45] skenmy: certainly have - just one section from Seddon and then it's ready to distribgute
[20:45] skenmy: however
[20:45] AndrewRT: is tha on the agenda for later?
[20:45] skenmy: I am AFK all day tomorrow
[20:45] skenmy: is someone able to distribute it for me?
[20:45] AndrewRT: AFK means ??
[20:45] skenmy: away from keyboard
[20:46] mpeel: other chapter's activities and press coverage sections were written just as notes - shall I rewrite those as prose, or is everyone happy with bullet points?
[20:46] mpeel: I'm happy to distribute the newsletter
[20:46] AndrewRT: i'd prefer them as prose
[20:46] AndrewRT: (personally)
[20:46] skenmy: I am happy with the bullet points - but if others prefer prose then we can delay distribution by a few days
[20:46] skenmy: say, Friday
[20:47] AndrewRT: coudl mpeel change in tomoz and send out?
[20:47] skenmy: if he is able to?
[20:47] AndrewRT: _it_
[20:47] mpeel: I should be able to do it tomorrow evening
[20:47] AndrewRT: what about Seddon's section?
[20:47] skenmy: mpeel - are you able to distribute?
[20:47] mpeel: skenmy: yes
[20:47] Seddon: ill be working on that 2night
[20:47] skenmy: thank you 
[20:47] AndrewRT: excellent
[20:47] Seddon is now known as Seddon|away.
[20:48] steveV: ditto
[20:48] AndrewRT: SteveV?
[20:48] steveV: yes
[20:48] AndrewRT: ah ditto for the thanks?
[20:48] steveV: yes
[20:48] AndrewRT: yes thanks from me too !!
[20:48] AndrewRT: great to get it out on time!
[20:48] AndrewRT: website - mpeel has done all his actions on this one
[20:49] mpeel: is everyone able to use OTRS now?
[20:49] AndrewRT: I can
[20:49] steveV: have not had time to practice
[20:49] skenmy: I recieved no test emails, so I have no idea 
[20:49] skenmy: There is no rush
[20:49] AndrewRT: ah I didnt' go into the test email!
[20:49] skenmy: Just contact me if you need clarification or whatnot, I am very willing to help
[20:49] AndrewRT: I will do though!
[20:50] AndrewRT: cheers skenmy
[20:50] mpeel: I just closed my test email ticket... didn't reply... 
[20:50] skenmy: That's fine 
[20:50] AndrewRT: is the OTRS queue being dealt with as it comes in?
[20:50] skenmy: it's a bit tutti fruity at the moment - I attack the spam as it arrives
[20:51] skenmy: however
[20:51] skenmy: we appear to be missing the "1-Click Spam" button
[20:51] AndrewRT: ok
[20:51] mpeel: I can see the 1-click spam button when I log in...
[20:51] cfp: yeah me too
[20:51] skenmy: then it is me!
[20:51] mpeel: have used it a fair number of times already...
[20:51] skenmy: disregard
[20:52] AndrewRT: onto initiatives?
[20:52] mpeel: ok
[20:52] AndrewRT: we all agreed at the last meeting to email one suggestion each to Zeyi
[20:52] AndrewRT: (apart from cfp who wasn't there!)
[20:52] AndrewRT: I've sent mine round :0
[20:52] skenmy: I have emailed one and forwarded one 
[20:52] steveV: not done by me
[20:53] AndrewRT: skenmy has a tick too - did you send it to the board?
[20:53] skenmy: neglected to cc:
[20:53] skenmy: will resend!
[20:53] AndrewRT: thanks
[20:53] AndrewRT: SteveV u ok to cf this?
[20:53] AndrewRT: mpeel?
[20:53] AndrewRT: Seddon
[20:53] steveV: maybe you can include the suggestion I made in the board mail earlier today?
[20:53] mpeel: please cf my action with this...
[20:54] AndrewRT: pls remind me?
[20:54] steveV: It will lead to an intiative 'eventually'
[20:54] steveV: OK here goes
[20:54] steveV: We seek collateral on Wiki and all its aspects that is currently 'out there' (Florence & Lennart are the examples that spring to mind)
[20:54] AndrewRT: is this the one about presentations?
[20:55] steveV: We invite ALL to suggest people and contacts with collateral
[20:55] steveV: we compile/review and discuss collateral as a board
[20:55] mpeel: what do you mean by "collateral"?
[20:55] AndrewRT: is this something Zeyi should lead on or someone else?
[20:55] steveV: when we have the material that we could use to promote ourselves externally and we are happy with it we open it out to members
[20:56] AndrewRT: presentations, advertising etc... i presume
[20:56] steveV: they can then use for promotional purposes in schools, museums, univ's anywhere there is a speaking or promotional opportunity
[20:56] steveV: collateral (see your inbox) Lennart Guldbrandsson of Wiki Sweden spoke at a Dow Jones Conference to delegates
[20:57] AndrewRT: ok, well as Zeyi isn't here today we have another week to get our suggestions together
[20:57] steveV: Explaining what wiki was and what it did and why it was significant and inviting delegates to discuss
[20:57] mpeel: I've never heard presentations called "collateral" before... 
[20:57] AndrewRT:                          
[20:57] steveV: marketing collateral (collective name for documents)
[20:57] AndrewRT: k
[20:57] mpeel: there was a general PR "cleanup" ongoing on meta, I believe
[20:58] mpeel: that will probably yield a lot of useful things
[20:58] AndrewRT: yes indeed there was an email that went round which I've fwd to Steve
[20:58] steveV: I like the sound of that
[20:58] AndrewRT: Steve u ok to continue leading on this?
[20:58] mpeel: I'm not sure how much will need board approval; could this be collated and discussed on-wiki primarily?
[20:58] AndrewRT: i hope so
[20:58] steveV: yes
[20:58] steveV: will take a little while
[20:59] AndrewRT: ok
[20:59] JoeUK joined the chat room.
[20:59] AndrewRT: pls keep up informed!
[20:59] AndrewRT: _us_
[20:59] steveV: naturally
[20:59] mpeel: ok, where are we with the actions?
[20:59] AndrewRT: Cultural partnerships - MP agreed to send this email this week
[20:59] AndrewRT: As will I with the chapter-selected seats process
[21:00] mpeel: hopefully we'll discuss those later this evening...
[21:00] AndrewRT: I've been asking ont eh chpaters email list about this
[21:00] AndrewRT: I'll c/f Zeyi's action on her work with her university
[21:00] AndrewRT: and ask her about this
[21:00] AndrewRT: and PW is in discussions about business cards
[21:01] skenmy: It's true!
[21:01] mpeel: comment with PW - I noticed that I have a WMDE business card, which is a general one rather than specific to a single person
[21:01] AndrewRT: anything to add skenmy on this?
[21:01] mpeel: would a generic one suffice, or do they need to specify people and positions?
[21:01] skenmy: If anyone has any ideas re: print companies then please get in touch
[21:02] AndrewRT: ok
[21:02] skenmy: mpeel, well, considering we have no "head office" - individual ones are better in my mind
[21:02] AndrewRT: and that's actions complete
[21:02] mpeel: we have the address that the company's registered at, a main phone number and a main email address
[21:03] skenmy: A generic card defeats the purpose of them, in my eyes
[21:03] skenmy: Generic information is available on the website and whatnot
[21:03] mpeel: I'm wary that we'll have new board members elected each year, which could mean a lot of wastage...
[21:04] AndrewRT: yeah I'd agree - the point is to have one saying - I'm official - surely!
[21:04] skenmy: That's a good point, mpeel
[21:04] skenmy: Perhaps we need to limit the number printed
[21:04] AndrewRT: yes, definitely - on the basis of who needs them not just who wants them!
[21:05] skenmy: I'll write and submit a proposal to the Board
[21:05] mpeel: shall we continue this discussion on the mailing list?
[21:05] skenmy: and we can develop from there
[21:05] AndrewRT: yes by all means
[21:06] skenmy: defer to mailing
[21:06] mpeel: actions done?
[21:06] AndrewRT: yep
[21:06] steveV: ok
[21:07] mpeel: 3. Reports
[21:07] mpeel:  3.1. Treasurer (TH)
[21:07] mpeel: cfp?
[21:08] cfp: do we want to go in camera to discuss the membership app
[21:08] cfp: i have nothing else to report other than that
[21:08] AndrewRT: oh yes gd point
[21:08] mpeel: ok; going in camera
[21:08] AndrewRT: link anyone?
[21:08] mpeel: PM
[21:08] AndrewRT: cheers
[21:09] Seddon|away is now known as Seddon.
[21:11] AndrewRT: back in the room
[21:11] AndrewRT: for teh minutes: member #28's application was approved
[21:12] AndrewRT: with immediate effect as the fees had already been recd
[21:12] mpeel:  3.2. Secretary (AT)
[21:12] AndrewRT: mpeel> is there any reason for not having the registers on the board wiki?
[21:12] AndrewRT: I'll do that
[21:12] AndrewRT: ok my report
[21:12] AndrewRT: two items of correspondence
[21:13] AndrewRT: one letter from our MP
[21:13] AndrewRT: enclosing response from the minister saying why HMRC took so long
[21:13] AndrewRT: no action on this I dont think now we have a response!
[21:13] AndrewRT: other one was a referral from teh en-wikipedia OTRS queue
[21:14] AndrewRT: someone from Imperial College doing some research on the use of wikis in education
[21:14] AndrewRT: wants to do an interview of someone
[21:14] AndrewRT: I've asked him to give me a call
[21:14] Seddon: sure thing 
[21:14] steveV: ok with me
[21:14] mpeel: could the correspondence be circulated to the board?
[21:14] AndrewRT: anyone particularly want to do this interview?
[21:14] AndrewRT: mpeel - sure
[21:15] mpeel: is the interview purely for the purpose of research?
[21:15] skenmy: I'm available
[21:15] AndrewRT: er - they're a commercial company working in the area
[21:16] steveV: who are they
[21:16] skenmy: working in the education sector, I have a little bit of bg knowledge
[21:16] mpeel: a commercial company, from a university?
[21:16] AndrewRT: > An important section of the courses focuses on the use of wiki software by
[21:16] AndrewRT: educators. Clearly,  it would be very valuable to us if we could obtain insight
[21:16] AndrewRT: from yourselves on this issue.  Ideally, this would take the form of a video
[21:16] AndrewRT: interview somewhere in the UK. Alternatively a short screen grab demonstrating a
[21:16] AndrewRT: novel use of Wikimedia/Wikipedia in the education context.
[21:16] AndrewRT: yep thats right
[21:16] AndrewRT: it's a spin off company!
[21:16] mpeel: weird
[21:16] AndrewRT: anyway - I've emailed round, please get back to me anyone who's interested in being interviewed for this
[21:17] mpeel: does it have to be someone from the board, or could it be more widely advertised?
[21:17] AndrewRT: no - it could be anyone
[21:17] mpeel: suggest forwarding to / discussing on the mailing list, then
[21:18] AndrewRT: yes good idea
[21:18] AndrewRT: suggest we wait until they get in touch again though - see what kind of thing they're looking for
[21:18] mpeel: that makes sense
[21:18] mpeel: anything else for the secretary's report?
[21:18] AndrewRT: I'll keep everyone in the loop!
[21:18] AndrewRT: nope that's all from me
[21:19] mpeel: 4. HMRC response (All)
[21:19] skenmy: Thank you for the draft, andrew
[21:19] mpeel: AndrewRT: you emailed around a draft, is that on the wiki at all?
[21:19] mpeel: ditto skenmy - thanks for writing the draft
[21:20] AndrewRT: I've just put it up
[21:20] AndrewRT: sorry it's late and incomplete
[21:20] AndrewRT: but it gives you an idea of what I'm getting at
[21:20] AndrewRT: could the Board give a steer if this is what it wants?
[21:21] mpeel: this is on ?
[21:21] AndrewRT:    
[21:21] AndrewRT: I haven't reformatted it so it's all over the place I'm afraid!
[21:21] mpeel: "Wikimedia UK blah blah blah"... 
[21:22] AndrewRT: Wikimedia UK is the operating name of Wiki UK Limited.
[21:22] AndrewRT: Wiki UK Ltd is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827.
[21:22] AndrewRT: The Registered Office is at 23 Cartwright Way, Nottingham, NG9 1RL, United Kingdom.
[21:23] mpeel: looks broadly ok to me - shall we continue developing this on-wiki?
[21:23] steveV: I thought we'd agreed the principle of an introductory letter for HMRC though not the actual text
[21:23] AndrewRT: steveV - yes this was my understanding too
[21:23] AndrewRT: the plan was to agree the actual text at this meeting
[21:24] steveV: and this does seem to be a sensible kick off point (your letter i mean)
[21:24] steveV: Just needs refining
[21:24] AndrewRT: can I suggest giving it another week
[21:25] steveV: ok
[21:25] mpeel: cfp, Seddon, skenmy: any comments?
[21:25] Seddon: I like the proposed layout
[21:25] skenmy: Only that we have overshot our own internal "dead"line for this - but I can appreciate why.
[21:25] skenmy: The letter looks good so far, needs expansion
[21:25] cfp: if we give it another week i'll take some time to go over it, otherwise i trust andrew to produce somehting decent
[21:26] Seddon: indeed 
[21:26] Seddon: may as well action as all to work on that
[21:26] Seddon: we all should take a look
[21:26] skenmy: agreed
[21:26] AndrewRT: there are some specific areas that need expanding
[21:26] AndrewRT: examples of "structured learning!
[21:27] AndrewRT: ""
[21:27] AndrewRT: "Structured Learning" is the phrase used by the charity commission in connection with libraries - it's important we demonstrate that wikipedia can be used as a resource for structured learning in order to tick their box.
[21:27] AndrewRT: or for that matter, wikimedia
[21:27] AndrewRT: lots and lots of examples would be good!
[21:27] mpeel: I'm still not convinced that learning with wikipedia etc. is particularly structured - it works best in an unstructured way...
[21:28] AndrewRT: ah yes - hence your comment
[21:28] AndrewRT: i think what they're saying is - could wikipedia be used by, e.g. a school or a university
[21:28] mpeel: fitting it into life-long learning would work much better, IMO
[21:28] Seddon: but the uses of wikipedia by chapters is structures
[21:28] Seddon: structured*
[21:28] Seddon: oh hang on
[21:28] Seddon: i know what you mean
[21:28] AndrewRT: or even a student
[21:29] mpeel: there are a variety of examples where editing wikipedia has been used as a class assignment.
[21:29] AndrewRT: have you got anything we can cite on that?
[21:29] steveV: yes that sounds very interesting
[21:30] mpeel: please action me to find some references...
[21:30] AndrewRT: personally I think that kind of thing would really bolster our case
[21:30] AndrewRT: cheers mpeel
[21:30] AndrewRT: can I just mention another thing as well
[21:31] AndrewRT: i was thinking about the conversation I had with the HMRC guy
[21:31] AndrewRT: one thing that might be quite important is addressing the "reputational" side of wikimedia
[21:31] steveV: sorry - while I remember - harking back to my earlier PR point (references like Mike's) and (case studies) - can people send them my way
[21:31] AndrewRT: if they think it's just a bunch of college students messing about, they may say no chance
[21:31] steveV: what do mean by reputational?
[21:32] steveV: you
[21:32] Seddon: the comprison between wiki and britannica would be useful to bring up
[21:32] mpeel: the Nature study, you mean?
[21:32] AndrewRT: if they think we're serious about making important information widely accessible they may have a different attitude
[21:32] steveV: yes - real examples from the HMRC world he can relate to
[21:32] AndrewRT: seddon - thanks good point
[21:32] Seddon: thats the one
[21:33] Seddon: that will carry alot of weight
[21:34] mpeel: reference:
[21:34] AndrewRT: is there anything else we can cover to persuade them we're serious about our mission?
[21:34] AndrewRT: thanks mpeel - I've added to the wiki
[21:35] mpeel: perhaps overview the activities that the other chapters have done - especially WMDE
[21:35] mpeel: those provide evidence of chapters working well, and doing serious things
[21:35] mpeel: and show how WMUK will be in the future
[21:36] AndrewRT: yes excellent idea
[21:36] AndrewRT: or even other things the WMF does off-wiki
[21:36] steveV: any real world case study will count in our favour from wherever it may be
[21:37] mpeel: ok, anything more on this?
[21:37] skenmy: nothing here
[21:37] AndrewRT: what would be really good is things like surveys of how wikipedia is used
[21:37] AndrewRT: by students, academics, professionals etc
[21:37] Seddon: agreed
[21:37] AndrewRT: if anyone knows of any or could find any pls add it to the wiki
[21:37] skenmy: I could try and survery the essex schools area
[21:37] steveV: why don't we set them up on social media sites?
[21:37] AndrewRT: sorry mpeel, I'll shut up now
[21:37] skenmy: *survey
[21:37] skenmy: but it would take time
[21:37] Seddon: zeyi would be a good one to contact given her background
[21:37] steveV: surveys I mean
[21:38] steveV: Linked In could have one tomorrow - it's easy
[21:38] Seddon: im sure the foundation has several
[21:38] AndrewRT: well, I was thinking one published by someone else actually
[21:38] Seddon: conducted indepently for them
[21:38] steveV: twitter has several wiki driven posters - they could fire 'interested parties' back to a survey on a wiki site
[21:39] AndrewRT: ok lots of ideas here - I'll write them up from the logs and we can put as many as we can into the letter enclosures
[21:39] AndrewRT: steveV - coudl you follow up twitter?
[21:39] steveV: surveys could be on-going (and historical) if the WMF has examples - and we could use them for HMRC and recruitment
[21:40] mpeel: there's the UNU-MERIT survey ongoing:
[21:40] steveV: I can have a go on Linked In and Twitter if you like
[21:40] steveV: why not add one to the Facebook site too
[21:40] AndrewRT: is that the usability survey?
[21:40] mpeel: no: it's a survey of readership
[21:41] mpeel: see e.g.
[21:41] mpeel: useful facts e.g. 4.18% of wikipedia editors are from the UK
[21:42] AndrewRT: interesting
[21:42] mpeel: "Reasons for not contributing " section makes interesting reading
[21:42] AndrewRT: shall we continue discussion on the wiki then?
[21:42] Seddon: yes
[21:42] Seddon: lets move on
[21:42] mpeel: AndrewRT: anything more with HMRC?
[21:43] AndrewRT: no dont think so
[21:43] mpeel: 5. Newsletter
[21:43] mpeel: discussed above - do we need to say anything more?
[21:43] mpeel: (skenmy?)
[21:43] AndrewRT: dont think so
[21:43] steveV: no
[21:43] skenmy: nothing more from me
[21:43] mpeel: 6. Cultural partnerships (MP)
[21:44] mpeel: not sure what to say here atm... have started making a couple of contacts, but nothing's gotten anywhere so far.
[21:44] Seddon: any news on the bbc and the sound archives?
[21:44] AndrewRT: ok c/f
[21:44] mpeel: Seddon: no, I haven't heard back about those
[21:44] Seddon: kk, nothing further from me
[21:45] mpeel: I might try directly approaching them, rather than waiting to hear back from the intermediary I've been talking to so far...
[21:45] mpeel: ok, moving on...
[21:45] mpeel: 7. Membership Drive (PW)
[21:45] skenmy: right
[21:46] AndrewRT: I added this one
[21:46] AndrewRT: I'm afraid
[21:46] AndrewRT: we've discussed it before
[21:46] skenmy: We have
[21:46] skenmy: We have /Drive
[21:46] skenmy: which has some good ideas
[21:46] skenmy: but is slightly disorganised
[21:46] mpeel:    
[21:46] AndrewRT: but i think we should start to push this forward
[21:46] Seddon: indeed
[21:46] skenmy: It needs pushing
[21:46] skenmy: and that falls to me
[21:46] AndrewRT: and being volunteers director thought skenmy might be the best man for it!
[21:47] skenmy: so what we need are some defined methods to reach out
[21:47] AndrewRT: one idea in particular
[21:47] skenmy: and my vision is not just "on-wiki"
[21:47] AndrewRT: membership-only merchanidising
[21:47] skenmy: is this permissable?
[21:47] AndrewRT: who would make it impermissible?
[21:48] skenmy: the chapters agreement?
[21:48] mpeel: membership-only merchandise is fine - it's only commercial/non-membership merchandise which has issues
[21:48] AndrewRT: actually it's the opposite
[21:48] skenmy: so we can sell things to our members?
[21:48] mpeel: afaik...
[21:48] mpeel: atm we can't use any trademark but the WMUK one, though
[21:48] AndrewRT: foundation are keener for us to sell to our members than to non-members
[21:48] skenmy: that's not how I interpret the chapters agreement
[21:48] AndrewRT: mpeel - well, we'd have to apply to use the trademark
[21:49] skenmy: but I am wide open to correction!
[21:49] mpeel: skenmy: how do you read it?
[21:49] AndrewRT: unless of course it was just branded WM-UK
[21:49] AndrewRT: how do WM-UK cufflinks sound?
[21:50] skenmy: AndrewRT, well, the agreeement doesn't stop us branding gear with our own trademarks
[21:50] skenmy: afaik
[21:50] AndrewRT: indeed!
[21:50] mpeel: AndrewRT: did you send the letter to mike asking for permission to use the wikipedia etc. trademark? (I think it was you that was actioned to do that...)
[21:50] skenmy: but it stops us selling anything - we can give things away in exchange for donations and whatnot
[21:50] steveV: what does afaik mean
[21:50] skenmy: as far as I know
[21:50] AndrewRT: mpeel: no - board never asked me to send it
[21:50] mpeel: I thought we did at the in-person meeting...
[21:50] AndrewRT: afaik = as far as i know
[21:50] steveV: ok
[21:50] Seddon: steveV dont worry, i dont know half of the acronyms 
[21:51] steveV: TGTK
[21:51] AndrewRT: mpeel - in person meeting said "AT agreed to send this round the new Board and then if all members are happy, send to the Foundation."
[21:51] steveV: that's good to know
[21:51] steveV:                          
[21:51] mpeel: AndrewRT: ah, ok.
[21:51] AndrewRT: just after that meeting the new agreement came out
[21:51] AndrewRT: hence why I sent the draft but not the final one
[21:51] skenmy: the new agreement changes a lot
[21:52] AndrewRT: skenmy, all, is it helpful for me to still send this email?
[21:52] mpeel: the new agreement will take a while to be accepted, though - it's probably worthwhile requesting the trademarks now anyhow.
[21:52] Seddon: given the issues with the agreement, we should do this now as a stop gap measure
[21:52] skenmy: agreed
[21:52] AndrewRT: ok I'll take that as an action
[21:53] skenmy: as for membership drive
[21:53] skenmy: I need your ideas forwarded to me
[21:53] AndrewRT: shall we do something similar to what we did for Zeyi?
[21:53] AndrewRT: all forward a sugegstion to skenmy?
[21:53] skenmy: That would be great
[21:53] AndrewRT: each of us that is
[21:53] mpeel: perhaps the suggestions can go on the membership drive page instead?
[21:53] mpeel: that's where most of them are so far...
[21:54] skenmy: that page is very disorganised
[21:54] mpeel: please, organize it then... 
[21:54] skenmy:                          
[21:54] AndrewRT: action - skenmy - organise the /Drive page!
[21:54] skenmy: Please email me your suggestions and I will start a new workspace
[21:54] AndrewRT: is everyone ok to do this?
[21:55] AndrewRT: stevev?
[21:55] mpeel: ok
[21:55] AndrewRT: seddon?
[21:55] AndrewRT: cfp?
[21:55] steveV: On my twitter site I am following a number of Wiki people - these could be of use in driving 'survey' traffic
[21:55] Seddon: ill do my best but, dont expect anything from me for a week or so
[21:55] steveV: OK to before
[21:55] AndrewRT: deadline two weeks time?
[21:56] skenmy: sounds fine to me
[21:56] mpeel: we should try to do it by the next meeting, and carry forward if not done, IMO...
[21:56] AndrewRT: ok I'll action MP, AT, SV, JS to do this
[21:56] AndrewRT: mpeel - sure
[21:56] mpeel: moving on?
[21:56] mpeel: 8. Process to appoint the chapter-selected Board members of the Wikimedia Foundation in 2010 [1] (AT)
[21:57] AndrewRT: Shall we c/f this to next meeting
[21:57] AndrewRT: once I've sent the update round and everyone's had a chance to read and consider?
[21:57] mpeel: ok ... although for once, we have plenty of time
[21:57] steveV: eg: Bio The Wikipedia Signpost is the internal newspaper for the English Wikipedia. Editor Ragesoss posts new Signpost issues and other related news here.
[21:58] AndrewRT: stevev: huh?
[21:58] steveV:    
[21:58] steveV: fake? or not?
[21:58] mpeel: that's genuine
[21:58] mpeel: I'm not sure what the context is here, though...
[21:59] AndrewRT: also published on wiki
[21:59] steveV: but plugging into this stuff and getting them to drive survey traffic in support of membership
[21:59] mpeel: steveV: I'm worried that you've linked doing a survey with gaining membership... The two strike me as completely seperate...
[22:00] mpeel: plus, driving survey traffic leads to really nasty systematics within the survey results...
[22:00] steveV: they are - but there are connections and work in one place can assist another if carefully constructed
[22:00] steveV: stress the word 'carefully'
[22:01] AndrewRT: well, we should plug membership with every contact we have
[22:01] AndrewRT: where are we now on the agenda?
[22:02] mpeel: 9. Website (MP)
[22:02] mpeel: ... which has been covered above
[22:02] mpeel: not sure that there's anything else to discuss here
[22:02] AndrewRT: ok moving on...
[22:02] mpeel: 10. Initiatives (ZH)
[22:02] mpeel: no ZH, so can't really be discussed...
[22:02] skenmy: absent
[22:02] mpeel: 11. AOCB
[22:03] AndrewRT: none from me
[22:03] skenmy: None here 
[22:03] mpeel: I have one...
[22:03] Seddon: I have one
[22:03] skenmy: d'oh!
[22:03] skenmy:                          
[22:03] AndrewRT: always one!
[22:03] Seddon:                          
[22:03] mpeel: Seddon: you first
[22:03] skenmy: (what does the C in AOCB stand for?)
[22:03] mpeel: Company
[22:03] AndrewRT: closing
[22:03] Seddon: cabal
[22:03] skenmy: aaaah
[22:03] mpeel: Any Other Company Business
[22:03] skenmy: hahahaha
[22:03] AndrewRT: Any Other Closing Business
[22:03] AndrewRT:                          
[22:04] mpeel: multiple meanings. 
[22:04] Seddon: Any Other Cabal Business 
[22:04] Seddon: anyway
[22:04] steveV:                          
[22:04] mpeel: will call it AOB from hereon
[22:04] Seddon: this is with regards to a future Wikimania bid
[22:04] AndrewRT: ok
[22:04] Haz joined the chat room.
[22:05] AndrewRT: yes?
[22:05] Seddon: I was approached today by the Manchester Tourist Board who have offered thier services/help/advice in the event we decide to go for a manchester wikimania bid
[22:05] skenmy: typing, I assume
[22:05] Seddon: this approach was completely out of the blue
[22:05] cfp: ace
[22:05] skenmy: that's fantastic
[22:05] Seddon: there was no prior contact from any WMUK person
[22:06] AndrewRT: wow
[22:06] Seddon: i rung them up
[22:06] steveV: it is good isn't it
[22:06] skenmy: why couldn't they have contacted us 6 months ago  
[22:06] Seddon: it is my plan to arrange meetings with them this summer
[22:06] skenmy: that's great, Seddon
[22:06] mpeel: great
[22:06] skenmy: fantastic work
[22:06] AndrewRT: what about teh UK conference - could we have that in manchester?
[22:06] Seddon: they have even offered to come to cardiff for the meeting
[22:06] skenmy: cardiff!?!
[22:06] Seddon: they seem quite serious about this offer
[22:06] skenmy: these meetings keep getting further and further away from me 
[22:07] AndrewRT: heh
[22:07] Seddon: sorry i mean the meeting with them
[22:07] Seddon: not our agm 
[22:07] mpeel: Seddon: please let me know if there's anything I can do to help with this, considering I'm based in manchester.
[22:07] skenmy: same expression of disgust 
[22:07] AndrewRT: haev you had any more thoughts on us doing the 2010 chapters meeting?
[22:07] Seddon: following this approach from the Tourist Board
[22:07] AndrewRT: would manchester could help us with that?
[22:07] Seddon: im more confident than i was
[22:07] skenmy: that almost fits in perfectly
[22:08] steveV: Nice
[22:08] Seddon: ill follow it up in the next week and see what the likelyhood would be
[22:08] Seddon: but i will be doing a bid for 2013/2014 for wikimania
[22:08] AndrewRT: should we have a discussion in principle about whether we want to go for this chapters meeting in 2010?
[22:08] Seddon: yes
[22:09] skenmy: I am all for it. I think it would be a great way to start our events.
[22:09] AndrewRT: bearing in mind mpeel's comments about the work involved
[22:09] skenmy: It's also a great networking opportunity
[22:09] AndrewRT: it's still much less than hosting wikimania 2010
[22:09] skenmy: It almost proves that we are ready for a wikimania
[22:09] AndrewRT: although we wouldn't have as much support from outside
[22:09] steveV: We need to be ambitious
[22:09] mpeel: My view is that we'd be much better off focusing on a UK conference/meeting, rather than a chapters meeting, this year
[22:09] mpeel: the benefits of a uk meeting are much greater than hosting the chapters meeting
[22:10] skenmy: could the two not be combined?
[22:10] steveV: The Manchester venue can easily accomodate Seddon told me
[22:10] AndrewRT: could we do them subsequently?
[22:10] steveV: two events
[22:10] Seddon: that is a feasible option
[22:10] mpeel: perhaps ... I'm not sure how well that would work, though, as the chapters meeting is very focused.
[22:10] mpeel: (that was to combining them)
[22:10] mpeel: two events would be better
[22:10] AndrewRT: the chapters mtg was a long weekend wasn't it?
[22:10] mpeel: yes
[22:10] skenmy: well the chapters meeting could be the first days of the conference
[22:10] steveV: concurrently in tandem in parallel
[22:11] skenmy: and then it opens up
[22:11] Seddon: the uk conference was only planned to be one day
[22:11] AndrewRT: could we do in parralel though
[22:11] AndrewRT: the board members would have to focus on both
[22:11] mpeel: the last chapters meeting was combined with a board meeting and developer's meeting, btw.
[22:11] skenmy: I still don't see why we can't make this a big thing
[22:11] mpeel: hosting a board meeting has obvious benefits for the UK conference
[22:11] AndrewRT: board = wikimedia foundation board i presume
[22:12] mpeel: AndrewRT: yes, soryr
[22:12] AndrewRT: i think this would be a great idea
[22:12] AndrewRT: but lots of work
[22:12] skenmy: no doubt
[22:12] AndrewRT: and the burden would fall mostly on seddon to lead
[22:12] steveV: why not mandate Seddon to explore the possibilities in 'theory' and then report back in a few weeks time for a formal view from us all?
[22:12] AndrewRT: are you ok with that seddon?
[22:13] skenmy: I'm happy to collaborate with Seddon as much as possible
[22:13] steveV: ditto
[22:13] steveV: (remember that)
[22:13] steveV:                          
[22:13] Seddon: If i can have two one week periods to work on this, ill give you an interim update and a final opinion
[22:13] skenmy: good plan
[22:13] mpeel: I'm also more than willing to help
[22:13] AndrewRT: how soon do we need to communicate to the other chapters?
[22:14] Seddon: no1 has claimed the chapters meeting yet
[22:14] AndrewRT: teh people who were going to do it (Serbia?) have pulled out
[22:14] skenmy: Should we make a preliminary claim - that we are following some leads?
[22:14] AndrewRT: i think it would be a good idea - u ok to do that seddon?
[22:14] mpeel: a statement of interest, rather than a claim, might be good
[22:15] skenmy: good wording, mpeel
[22:15] AndrewRT: yeah say we're looking into it
[22:15] Seddon: sure thing, and i echo mpeel
[22:15] tetrathiezol joined the chat room.
[22:15] mpeel: we should also discuss this with WMFR and WMDE, possibly WMNL.
[22:15] mpeel: WMDE and WMNL as they've already hosted the chapters meeting
[22:15] Seddon: agreed
[22:15] steveV: 'feasibility study' we are interested in principle but not an assessment before confirming
[22:15] mpeel: WMFR as they're the people I'd expected to host it next
[22:15] steveV: 'need' an assessment
[22:16] Seddon: mpeel, do you wish to contact them as youv had prior contact before, or do you want me to do it?
[22:16] mpeel: I don't mind either way
[22:17] tetrathiezol left the chat room.
[22:18] mpeel: Seddon: will discuss offline with you, if that's ok
[22:18] skenmy: anything more?
[22:18] Seddon: sure thing
[22:18] Seddon: one more thing from mpeel i believe
[22:18] mpeel: Donations - we need to encourage these, and have them easy to make. E.g.: could we have the bank account details online so that people can donate that way, and can we accept cash donations somehow?
[22:19] skenmy: we are waiting for HMRC before we get a paypal, no?
[22:19] mpeel: I believe so - although it might be good to find out if we could have a standard account, and upgrade it to a charity account upon approval
[22:19] cfp: an outlook reminder has been popping up to tell me to do that for weeks
[22:20] Seddon: that would be a good move
[22:20] cfp: it will get done soon i promise.
[22:20] cfp: no reason we can't have bank details online though
[22:20] cfp: though, perhaps getting people to email first is still a reasonable security precaution
[22:21] mpeel: how can we accept cash donations, e.g. at wikimeets?
[22:21] skenmy: By having someone there to collect the cash, bank it, and send a cheque with a breakdown
[22:22] mpeel: there was someone at the london wikimeet who was eager to donate via cash, but I wasn't sure how it could be processed
[22:22] mpeel: we should all be able to pay directly into the WMUK bank account, I believe...
[22:22] skenmy: we just must send a breakdown of the donations
[22:23] mpeel: do we need to provide receipts?
[22:23] Seddon: i recommend it
[22:23] AndrewRT: can treasurer send receipts when he gets the money or should we give them out when we take it?
[22:23] mpeel: if the treasurer sends them, then we'd need to get contact details
[22:24] mpeel: (not necessarily a bad thing anyway)
[22:24] skenmy: Perhaps we need to carry some receipt forms with us when we go to wikimeets
[22:25] cfp: getting contact details is generally a good idea
[22:26] cfp: but if people want a receipt on the spot it only needs to be a scrap of paper signed by the person taking the money
[22:26] cfp: and yes, anyone whatsoever can pay cash into our bank account at a branch
[22:26] skenmy: 10:30!
[22:26] AndrewRT: wow ending on time
[22:26] mpeel: ok,  12. Date of next meeting
[22:26] Seddon: well thats a wrap i suppose 
[22:26] mpeel: Tuesday 26 May, 8.30PM BST?
[22:27] AndrewRT: there was me thinking we'd finish early for the first time in our history 
[22:27] Seddon: yes please
[22:27] mpeel: (it's 22:27 by my clock...)
[22:27] AndrewRT: sure
[22:27] mpeel: ok, thanks all for coming
[22:27] mpeel: see you all next week
[22:27] AndrewRT: thanks all
[22:27] skenmy: o/
[22:27] steveV: bye
[22:27] AndrewRT: bye then


[20:27] Tango42: We're a trustee short...
[20:34] Tango42: Question: Where is the private wiki hosted?
[20:35] AndrewRT: mpeel>on the domain, using webspace provided by me.
[20:36] Tango42: is that your own server or your own webspace on a remote host of some description?
[20:36] skenmy: <mpeel> (as in, account on the reseller account that I have)
[20:36] Tango42: note to self: wait for full answer before asking followup questions!
[20:47] Seddon is now known as Seddon|away.
[20:54] Dratini joined the chat room.
[20:58] Tango42: I attended a session in Berlin about PR materials
[20:58] Tango42: The foundation is intending to put together some stuff that chapters can adapt/translate
[20:58] Tango42: I don't know when that is likely to happen, though
[20:59] Dratini left the chat room. ("Rule The World!")
[20:59] mpeel: probably whenever a volunteer gets tired of waiting, and does it... 
[20:59] Tango42: Frank sounded like he was keen to take the lead on it
[21:00] Tango42: he seemed like a good guy, I expect something will happen with it sooner or later
[21:00] mpeel: good to know - I didn't manage to speak to him at the meeting...
[21:01] steveV: Tango42 I'd be keen to hear more
[21:02] steveV: when you know something let me know
[21:02] Tango42: There was supposed to be a report thing put together at the end of the meeting which would include the results of all the brainstorming...
[21:02] Tango42: mpeel, did that ever happen?
[21:03] mpeel: yes
[21:03] mpeel: it's on meta
[21:03] Tango42: generic business cards would be useful for people not important enough to have their own
[21:03] AndrewRT: "not important enough" - I'll keep an eye out to see whether i get one! 
[21:04] mpeel: Tango42:
[21:04] Tango42: - that's the session in question
[21:04] Tango42: AndrewRT: You're important. I was thinking more of myself.
[21:04] AndrewRT: hehe
[21:05] Tango42: I wouldn't mind having a few cards I can hand out if people express an interest in the chapter
[21:05] AndrewRT: I'm sure we can get you a card Tango42 - what job title would you like?
[21:06] Tango42: I'm far too important to be restricted by a job title!
[21:06] skenmy: Cabal Director
[21:06] Seddon|away: Cabal minion
[21:06] Tango42: shhh!
[21:06] mpeel: I thought that was me? 
[21:06] Tango42: oi!
[21:06] mpeel: anti-Cabal director would be better suited to Tango42... 
[21:06] Tango42:                          
[21:07] Tango42: OffCabal
[21:08] Tango42: Cabal! Cabal! Cabal!
[21:08] Tango42: (I got there first for once, it's been a while!)
[21:08] AndrewRT: getting out of practice!
[21:09] Seddon|away is now known as Seddon.
[21:15] JoeUK joined the chat room.
[21:20] JoeUK: Who else here uses a USENET client for mailing lists?
[21:20] AndrewRT: I use googlemail
[21:21] JoeUK: Hmm I used to
[21:22] JoeUK: But GMANE and a NNTP client does a decent job
[21:30] Tango42: Shouldn't refining the letter have been done during the last week? Why did the first draft need to be presented to a board meeting before being worked on?
[21:30] AndrewRT: yeah that was the plan!
[21:30] Seddon: i havnt had a chance myself
[21:30] AndrewRT: me neither
[21:31] mpeel: AndrewRT only sent it around to the board this evening...
[21:31] JoeUK: Could Wikimedia UK provide some presentations on judging reliability of online content?
[21:32] JoeUK: For schools or something?
[21:32] Seddon: could you at it to the WMUK proposals page 
[21:32] Seddon: add*
[21:33] Tango42: So it is all AndrewRT's fault? Could we get that minuted? 
[21:34] Seddon: we could all just blame you tango 
[21:34] Tango42: No, you can't. If you wanted to be able to blame me you should have made sure more people voted for me at the AGM.
[21:34] AndrewRT: hehe yep that's right!
[21:35] Tango42: I have no official position, thus I cannot be officially responsible for anything, therefore nothing is ever my fault!
[21:35] AndrewRT: right its my fault that is
[21:35] skenmy: I propose we make Tango42 "Chief Scapegoat"
[21:35] AndrewRT: ...AndrewRT offered his profuse apologies for being so tardy....
[21:35] skenmy: all in favor?
[21:36] Tango42: skenmy: Is that a paid position?
[21:36] Seddon: aye
[21:36] skenmy: it would have been, but you were late in forwarding the paperwork
[21:36] Tango42: AndrewRT: "tardy"? What continent are you on?
[21:36] Tango42: damn...
[21:37] Tango42: In that case, I think I have a conflict of interest and must reluctantly decline the position. I live in the country and this come into regular contact with goats and would not be able to remain suitably impartial.
[21:37] Tango42: *thus come into
[21:51] Tango42: Strictly speaking, we aren't allowed to use the Wikimedia trademark for anything commercial. Godwin says that selling to members isn't commercial, but that's rather different to what it says in my dictionary...
[21:52] AndrewRT: well, without permission
[21:52] • mpeel has lost track of what Godwin says
[21:53] Tango42: I think I've managed to just about keep track. He's pretty self-consistent, he's just not consistent with the English language.
[22:04] JoeUK: Erm
[22:04] JoeUK: complete sidetrack
[22:04] JoeUK: i'm not following the charity status issue
[22:04] JoeUK: is Northern Irish or Scottish charity law more liberal? Could one register there?
[22:05] AndrewRT: possibly
[22:05] mpeel: I would have thought that the law would be the same in all three places?
[22:05] AndrewRT: would be more difficult though because I think you have to demonstrate a connection
[22:05] AndrewRT: which would be hard as all directors live in england!
[22:05] AndrewRT: and it's an english registered company
[22:06] JoeUK: lol
[22:06] JoeUK: fair enought
[22:06] JoeUK: mpeel Scotland and Northern Ireland have different legal system
[22:06] JoeUK: s
[22:06] JoeUK: Scotland aren't even common law
[22:07] mpeel: JoeUK: ah, ok, didn't realise that
[22:08] JoeUK: I doubt you could tbh
[22:08] JoeUK: Seems a bit dodgy at best
[22:08] JoeUK: On another note, would you have to register in Scotland as well as England?
[22:09] AndrewRT: no
[22:10] AndrewRT: they mutually recognise each other
[22:12] JoeUK: the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator has an 8 page guidance thing about English and Welsh charities in Scotland
[22:13] AndrewRT: i remember having a brief read of it - crossed my mind too
[22:13] AndrewRT: is it worth us persuing do you think?
[22:14] JoeUK: not until we get status in England And Wales lol
[22:14] AndrewRT: cheers
[22:14] JoeUK: don't know why I'm saying 'we'
[22:14] JoeUK: i'm not a member lol
[22:15] Tango42: JoeUK: There is a simple way to fix that...
[22:15] JoeUK: lol
[22:16] AndrewRT: is your printer working 
[22:16] • skenmy nudges JoeUK
[22:16] AndrewRT:    
[22:16] JoeUK: Don't fancy becoming one at the moment
[22:16] AndrewRT:                          
[22:16] JoeUK: I would become a supporting member if that were introduced
[22:16] AndrewRT: what would that mean?
[22:16] JoeUK: non voting
[22:16] Tango42: re chapters meeting: It's not exactly cheap. I believe WMDE spent 10's of thousands of euros on it, in spite of massive sponsorship and contributions from other chapters.
[22:16] AndrewRT: ouch
[22:17] skenmy: ..why!?!
[22:17] Tango42: lots of travel costs, for a start
[22:17] skenmy: That's an insane amount of cash
[22:17] mpeel: the chapters/developers/WMF board meeting budget was circa 30K euros
[22:17] AndrewRT: that'll be all the booze 
[22:17] JoeUK: (back to membership) ie id happily donate and help out with Wikimedia UK. Just don't fancy my postal address being there with my username in a public record…
[22:17] Seddon: JoeUK, itll be a motion for the next AGM
[22:17] Seddon: from me at least
[22:17] AndrewRT: erm, it's not public
[22:17] Seddon: if not someone else
[22:17] mpeel: JoeUK: your username is not needed as a member
[22:17] Tango42: I think the developers and board mostly paid for themselves, so most of that money was the chapters meeting
[22:17] JoeUK: Well it can be figured out easily enough can't it lol
[22:17] skenmy: and we know your postal address anyway
[22:17] skenmy:                          
[22:17] mpeel: you join under your real name, with no mention of your username
[22:18] skenmy: (pysche)
[22:18] JoeUK: not a public record… a 'public Register of Members'
[22:18] AndrewRT: joeUK - only the secretary and membership sec have access to yoru postal address
[22:18] AndrewRT: the Register of Members is only available to people who apply for it
[22:18] AndrewRT: as yet no one has
[22:18] JoeUK: Oh cool
[22:18] AndrewRT: and if they did, they would need to give a reason for wanting it
[22:18] AndrewRT: chances are we'd tell them no
[22:19] AndrewRT: also from August? your address doesn't have to go on the public record
[22:19] JoeUK: ?
[22:19] AndrewRT: I cant remember the exact date
[22:19] AndrewRT: do you want me to email you the details?
[22:19] JoeUK: Yeh come August if that's the case
[22:20] JoeUK: so you won't even require my postal address?
[22:20] JoeUK: I just like to think I have a little bit of anonymity
[22:20] Tango42: AndrewRT: I don't think you can tell them no without taking it to court
[22:20] mpeel: Tango42's right there
[22:20] Seddon: we should get some advice on that
[22:21] AndrewRT: erm, you can actually
[22:21] AndrewRT: some interesting case law there!
[22:21] JoeUK: AndrewRT, is that IANAL advice? 
[22:21] AndrewRT: techically you cant
[22:21] AndrewRT: well, strictly speaking I am a chartered accountant so I do have expertese in company law
[22:21] AndrewRT: but this is outside my exact area of practice
[22:21] JoeUK: fair enough
[22:23] Tango42: case law that contradicts statute? That isn't meant to happen...
[22:24] Tango42: Didn't Jeremy Clarkson learn the hard way that you shouldn't publish your bank a/c details?
[22:24] mpeel: Tango42: did he? how/why?
[22:24] AndrewRT: yeah i remember that
[22:25] AndrewRT: someone signed him up for a direct debit
[22:25] Tango42: someone set up a direct debit to Diabetes UK for £50 out of his a/c
[22:25] skenmy: that's because he was a prat and published his details
[22:25] mpeel: that shouldn't be possible - it would need his signature
[22:25] Tango42: there are procedures in place to appeal such things (I don't think he bothered)
[22:25] skenmy: his signature isn't exactly private
[22:26] Tango42: I don't think you need a sig. - don't charities do that kind of thing over the phone?
[22:26] skenmy: no sig for quite a lot of organisations
[22:26] mpeel: I thought that over the phone, it was debit cards only
[22:26] mpeel: I could well be wrong, though
[22:26] JoeUK: Tango42, £500 I believe
[22:26] Tango42: I don't know
[22:27] Tango42: all I know is he was proved wrong
[22:27] JoeUK: yeh
[22:27] JoeUK: £500
[22:27] Tango42: It could well be £500
[22:27] JoeUK: he said they could keep it
[22:27] Tango42: he thought there was nothing you could do with just a sort code and a/c #, and it turned out there was
[22:28] JoeUK: the bank's security being bad I suspect
[22:28] Tango42: Finished on time despite 20 mins of AOB - that's rather impressive!
[22:28] JoeUK: someone tried to take £500 off my debit card on a portuguese website and bank security didn't flag it up. 
[22:29] Tango42: although Zeyi being absent did allow you to skip one item