Meetings/2009-05-26/IRC

#wikimedia-uk-board

[20:18] mpeel: good evening zeyi
[20:24] mpeel: hi cfp
[20:24] cfp: heya
[20:28] Zeyi: hey, everyone
[20:30] mpeel: hopefully Seddon will return, and SteveV will appear...
[20:30] mpeel: I don't think we can start the meeting with just the three of us, as we aren't quorate, so we're probably best delaying until at least one appears.
[20:33] mpeel: Seddon's phone goes to voice mail ... does anyone have Steve's number?
[20:33] Tango42 joined the chat room.
[20:34] Zeyi: no, can you send message to Andrew and ask?
[20:35] cfp: i do
[20:35] cfp: one second
[20:36] mpeel: thanks cfp - didn't really want to disturb andrew...
[20:36] mpeel: I'm sure he's got enough on his mind right now
[20:38] steveV joined the chat room.
[20:39] Zeyi: o, just saw some email, don't know Andrew's situation..sorry
[20:39] mpeel: hi steveV
[20:39] Zeyi: hi, steve
[20:40] Seddon joined the chat room.
[20:40] Seddon was granted voice by ChanServ.
[20:40] mpeel: welcome back Seddon
[20:40] Seddon: apologies for the delay
[20:40] Zeyi: hi, seddon
[20:41] steveV was granted voice by ChanServ.
[20:41] Seddon: stevev you need to join #wikimedia-uk
[20:41] mpeel: ok, is everyone here?
[20:41] mpeel: & ready to start?
[20:41] steveV: ok
[20:42] cfp: yup
[20:42] mpeel: Seddon, Zeyi?
[20:42] Seddon: yes 
[20:42] Zeyi: ok
[20:43] mpeel: agenda is at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-05-26/Agenda
[20:43] mpeel:   1. Apologies for Absence
[20:43] mpeel: Apologies have been received from Andrew Turvey and Paul Williams
[20:43] mpeel:   2. Minutes of Meeting dated 2009-05-19 - approval & actions
[20:43] mpeel: minutes are at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-05-19 - any corrections?
[20:44] steveV: none from me
[20:44] Seddon: none from me
[20:45] cfp: me neither
[20:45] Zeyi: none
[20:45] mpeel: great; I'm also happy, so that's the minutes approved
[20:45] mpeel: ... which reminds me, any volunteers to minute this meeting?
[20:45] mpeel: seeing as Andrew isn't here
[20:47] mpeel: Seddon, would you mind?
[20:47] steveV: sorry struggling to keep up on mails so I would say no
[20:47] Seddon: ok sure thing, never done it before, but ill give it a shot
[20:47] mpeel: thanks
[20:48] mpeel: actions ... rather a lot this week
[20:48] mpeel: The following actions have been marked as done:
[20:48] mpeel: JS and MP agreed to send at least one suggestion regarding initiatives to ZH before the next meeting.
[20:48] mpeel: AT agreed to email a summary on the proposed process to agree the chapter-selected seats in 2010.
[20:48] mpeel: MP will move the private wiki to http://board.wikimedia.org.uk.
[20:48] mpeel: It was agreed to put the Registers of Members, Directors etc. on the private wiki. (Action: AT)
[20:48] mpeel: everyone happy with those?
[20:48] steveV: SV also sent a suggestion to ZH
[20:49] cfp: AT had some qualms about whether the member list should be on wiki
[20:49] cfp: i replied with arguments both ways
[20:49] cfp: i suggest we action someone to ask the membership
[20:49] Seddon: I havnt sent a suggestion, as mentioned last week,i couldnt do any actions until this week
[20:50] Seddon: but my last exam is on sat, i should then be able to complete my backlog
[20:50] mpeel: cfp: I'm happy to send an email to the mailing list to get people's views on how the members list should be stored
[20:50] cfp: great.
[20:51] mpeel: steveV: thanks for pointing that out; something to note in the minutes.
[20:51] cfp: my first action is in progress, you've all had emails about it, and should have had things through the post by now as well. it's a pain i know but i was originally miss informed so sorting it at the agm wasn't possible.
[20:52] mpeel: that's "TH to contact the bank to notify them of the new directors, to change the signatories to any two of MP, AT and TH and to set up AT and MP on the online banking."?
[20:52] cfp: yup
[20:52] mpeel: ok, thanks
[20:52] mpeel: "JS to send the tokens of our appreciation to the retiring Directors, tellers and external speakers."
[20:52] mpeel: I guess carry forward
[20:52] mpeel: ditto "PW will talk to SV and ZH to get them set up with an account on IRC and give them operator rights."
[20:52] mpeel: "MP has transferred ownership of wikimedia.co.uk to us; MP still to organise transfer of wikimedia.org.uk with current owner."
[20:53] mpeel: this is a work in progress; I currently can't get in touch with JamesF... hopefully will complete this soon
[20:53] mpeel: "AT is to respond to the pressure group whose letter had been received."
[20:53] mpeel: c/f...
[20:53] mpeel: "MP agreed to email a summary on cultural partnerships around the Board members for discussion at the next meeting."
[20:53] mpeel: c/f - it's being drafted atm
[20:53] mpeel: ZH to send a note round the Board with details of the discussions she has had with people at her university to discuss running campaigns to encourage people to edit Wikipedia.
[20:54] mpeel: Zeyi?
[20:54] Zeyi: and participate in Wiki Uk
[20:54] Zeyi: have sent
[20:55] mpeel: thanks - do you plan to have further discussions in the future?
[20:56] Zeyi: yes, I will plan to discuss it with Student Union and probably do some presentation, would you like to do the same things around campus next to you, when i have contact?
[20:57] Seddon: I suppose it would make sense for me to make similar approaches at cardiff university
[20:58] steveV: I have some contacts at UWE (Uni West of England) mark me down for the same action as JS
[20:58] Zeyi: yes, actually, I can contact with them and probably we have to give some presentation about us like Steve suggestion.
[20:58] Zeyi: thanks
[20:58] steveV: I have approached a school in Bristol where my daughter goes and proposed the same (see email earlier)
[20:59] steveV: I have had a lot of success in getting things on at this school so am confident it could be a 'gig' for someone like JS to showcase any pack we develop
[20:59] mpeel: I currently don't have the time to do much with this, I'm afraid - but if anyone encounters people from manchester university who are interested in discussions, then I'm always willing to talk to them...
[21:00] steveV: I also have links to LSE (same)
[21:01] mpeel: anything else with this?
[21:01] Zeyi: great, so I will contact University of York first, and let you know about my activities, probably we can do same in different uni
[21:01] steveV: can wiki veterans flag up 'people' to talk to with presentation material from across the European chapters
[21:02] steveV: we can then share, collate and develop UK material for members
[21:02] steveV: and would be members
[21:02] steveV: to use
[21:02] mpeel: steveV: I suggest that you send an email to the chapters mailing list asking them
[21:02] steveV: ok
[21:02] Zeyi: yes, I think I also need some materials which is prepared for wikimenia
[21:03] Zeyi: I will send email around, 
[21:03] mpeel: thanks Zeyi
[21:03] mpeel: "PW will continue to research what is needed to produce business cards for Wikimedia UK officials."
[21:03] mpeel: c/f...
[21:03] mpeel: "A referral from the en-wiki OTRS queue from an Imperial College spin off company asking for our help on the use of wikis in education. AT agreed to circulate to the Board, discuss on the mailing list and follow up."
[21:03] mpeel: also c/f...
[21:03] mpeel: SV will look into starting a survey on social media sites
[21:03] mpeel: steveV?
[21:04] steveV: put up 'feeler' mails but no rsponse so far
[21:04] steveV: will need to pursue and start asking a few serious questions of people I know to advise me
[21:04] steveV: mark as action for me
[21:04] mpeel: thanks steve
[21:04] mpeel: HMRC actions ... I suggest that we return to these later, in the appropriate section
[21:05] mpeel: "JS agreed to complete the section in the May Newsletter on the 2010 Wikimedia UK conference tonight. MP agreed to expand the “press coverage” and “other chapters” sections and distribute tomorrow."
[21:05] mpeel: this was done, although I'm not sure whether it was sent to the members
[21:06] mpeel: I think skenmy is the only person with the list of members to send the newsletter to - can I suggest that we action him (when he is able) a) to send out the newsletter , and b) put the list onto the board wiki?
[21:07] cfp: sounds sensible
[21:07] steveV: yes
[21:07] mpeel: Seddon: anything to add to that?
[21:07] Seddon: nope
[21:08] mpeel: "So that we can use it for members-only merchandising, AT agreed to send the email to the Foundation previously discussed asking for permission to use their trademarks."
[21:08] mpeel: c/f...
[21:08] mpeel: "Discussion ensued on whether we should host a combined 2010 chapters meeting and UK Conference in Manchester. JS will discuss with MTB whether they could support this event and express a statement of interest in regards to the chapters meeting on the chapters list. JS will continue to follow up over the next two weeks. MP and JS will liaise on discussing it with previous chapters meeting hosts Wikimedia Deutschland, Nederland and France."
[21:08] mpeel: Seddon?
[21:10] cfp: come back to it
[21:10] Seddon: There would be support from MTB, however following discussions with those associated with the organisation of the recent chapters meeting, i do not believe that we are in a suitable position to hold the 2010 meeting
[21:10] Zeyi: ok
[21:11] Seddon: on the basis that we have an uncertain income for the year 09/10 and 10/11
[21:11] cfp: yes that sounds sensible. i was somewhat sceptical to start with...
[21:11] steveV: ok
[21:12] Seddon: once we have a mroe certain level of income, then we can consider holding the meeting
[21:12] mpeel: that seems logical
[21:13] mpeel: shall we move on?
[21:13] Seddon: sure thing
[21:13] mpeel: TH will follow up opening a non-charity PayPal account. TH will provide bank account details on request.
[21:13] steveV: ok with me
[21:13] cfp: i've been in touch with paypal and changed our account type
[21:14] cfp: we're not yet "verified" as that requires signing a direct debit mandate
[21:14] mpeel: can we start accepting donations via paypal?
[21:14] cfp: yes
[21:14] cfp:        payments.wiki.uk.ltd@googlemail.com    
[21:14] mpeel: that's great news
[21:15] steveV: I agree good news
[21:15] Zeyi: we should add it to our website
[21:15] cfp: but we're paying fees
[21:15] mpeel: could we include that on the donate page? http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Donate
[21:15] cfp: (on each donation)
[21:15] cfp: yeah there's standard html for a button
[21:15] Seddon: is there a paypal wikimedia.org,uk address?
[21:15] mpeel: substantially more than the charity rate, or...?
[21:15] Zeyi: how much we need to pay?
[21:15] cfp: so really we still want to encourage people not to use paypal if they have the choice
[21:16] cfp: most people can make direct bank transfers
[21:16] mpeel: paypal is a lot easier and quicker to use, though - which means that it's more likely that people will use it to donate
[21:17] mpeel: paypal at wikimedia.org.uk exists - does that work for paypal payments?
[21:17] cfp: the registered address is the previous one
[21:17] cfp: so i'd expect not.
[21:18] Seddon: i think that using a wikimedia.org.uk address would be preferrable with the paypal if possible
[21:18] Seddon: but thats just my opinion
[21:18] mpeel: it should be possible to set it to use that address...
[21:18] cfp: well it looks a bit better sure
[21:18] cfp: but remember that those addresses weren't working for months
[21:19] cfp: well weeks
[21:19] mpeel: they should be reliable now
[21:19] cfp: even around domain transfer?
[21:19] cfp: i'll change the official email then
[21:19] mpeel: yes - the domain transfer _shouldn't_ affect them.
[21:19] mpeel: if it does, it will only be for a very short while (< 1 hour)
[21:20] cfp: is the paypal@wikimedia.org.uk address set to forward to the googlemail address do you knwo
[21:20] mpeel: yes, it is
[21:20] cfp: k thanks
[21:21] mpeel: could you set up a donate webpage/form, along the lines of the WMF's?
[21:21] cfp: yeah sure.
[21:21] mpeel: (http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en)
[21:21] mpeel: thanks cfp
[21:21] cfp: oh one thing
[21:22] cfp: we can only withdraw £650 a year without being verified incompatible encoding
[21:22] cfp: getting verified requires signing a direct debit mandate which is potentially open to abuse
[21:22] mpeel: how do you mean by "open to abuse"?
[21:22] Seddon: in what way?
[21:23] cfp: do we stick with the £650 cap, or take the small risk of rogue directors incompatible encoding
[21:23] steveV: cap always good
[21:23] Seddon: well we limit the access to the bank account directors
[21:23] cfp: well it means whoever has access to the paypal account can use paypal to buy whatever
[21:23] cfp: at the moment that's just me.
[21:23] steveV: yes limit
[21:23] cfp: so it's really "do you trust me".
[21:24] Seddon: or we keep with the cap for now until we reach more than £650 in the kitty?
[21:24] mpeel: I would hope that we'll be bringing in > £650 in donations via the paypal account some time soonish...
[21:24] mpeel: Tango42: Is there no way to be verified as a recipient only, not as a buyer?
[21:24] cfp: no
[21:24] cfp: bizarrely
[21:25] Seddon: i suggest having the same three directors with access to the bank account have access to the paypal account
[21:26] Seddon: it seems to make sense to me
[21:26] cfp: doesn't improve the security though
[21:26] cfp: just makes it worse...
[21:26] Seddon: hmmmm
[21:26] steveV: CFP, Seddon + MP
[21:26] cfp: (and they'd all be using the same login)
[21:26] mpeel: the difference being, it takes 2 to sign a cheque, but only 1 to make a paypal payment?
[21:26] cfp: yes
[21:26] Seddon: hmmmm
[21:26] mpeel: cfp: you should be able to set up multiple logins on a corporate paypal account
[21:26] Seddon: well its the treasurers job
[21:27] cfp: once andrew and i sign the direct debit agreement paypal can be used for anythign
[21:27] Seddon: can i point out that we have already used an hour up
[21:27] mpeel: shall we discuss this by email?
[21:28] Seddon: on the mailing list shall suffice for this
[21:28] mpeel: that makes sense
[21:28] cfp: ok sorry
[21:28] mpeel: we started late, so we haven't really used up a whole hour yet.
[21:29] mpeel: ok, aside from the HMRC ones, that should be all of the actions.
[21:29] mpeel:   3. Reports
[21:29] mpeel:         1. Treasurer (TH; membership, donation methods)
[21:29] Seddon: who shall i action to start the list discussion?
[21:29] mpeel: cfp I guess?
[21:29] cfp: uh huh
[21:29] cfp: i spent an afternoon updating the accounts this week
[21:29] cfp: the accounts now include the members added at the agm and after, and the expense cheques going out
[21:30] cfp: the database of members, donators and board members in the accounts software is also now up to date
[21:30] cfp: nothing else to report
[21:31] mpeel: great; thanks cfp
[21:31] cfp: (oh: i followed up with the user mpeel said was talking about joining, but haven't heard anythign back)
[21:31] mpeel: 2. Secretary (AT)
[21:31] mpeel: I guess skip, as AT isn't present
[21:32] mpeel: 3. Chair (MP)
[21:32] mpeel: I just wanted to note a few things...
[21:32] mpeel: was contacted this morning by a member of press; result was http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/42578/140/
[21:33] steveV: seen
[21:33] steveV: I suggested a form of words on the back of JS comment that could be used in situations like these
[21:33] steveV: in mail I sent earlier this PM to Board mail
[21:33] steveV: views?
[21:34] mpeel: your text wasn't particularly snappy... means it's very difficult to communicate that to the press, and to get them to record it accurately...
[21:34] mpeel: soundbytes tend to work a lot better...
[21:34] steveV: it is merely a start that can be built on
[21:35] steveV: something that can be improved but cover situations like this
[21:35] steveV: where we can say something but not too much
[21:35] mpeel: makes sense - shall we start collating quotes and useful phrases on the board wiki?
[21:36] mpeel: the other thing I wanted to note was with the website: I've updated the main page, and simplified the navigation. if anyone sees ways that it can be improved, please edit...
[21:36] steveV: Yes - an airline client I know maps out scenarios and devises comments to cover themselves in a series of increasingly serious tragedy scenarios
[21:37] steveV: while I am not asking for tragedies - having a set of bog standard to hand quotes for a spokesperson is useful as we are all busy
[21:37] steveV: and not necessarily trained in tricky situations to say the right thing in the right way
[21:37] Seddon: ill get some off OTRS
[21:37] Seddon: they have been refined over time
[21:37] mpeel: that all makes great sense to me.
[21:38] Seddon: and are good to use as standard templates for such events
[21:38] steveV: This is an area where I can kick things off and the board can then work on it
[21:38] mpeel: action me, seddon and steveV to start collating a list?
[21:38] steveV: send material to me and I'll begin the task
[21:38] mpeel: great; thanks steveV
[21:39] mpeel: last thing I wanted to ask about was email addresses: who should Alison's, Kwan's and Mickey's emails go to now? Their appropriate successor, or should they be bounced?
[21:39] cfp: all to you would make sense to me
[21:40] mpeel: ok...
[21:41] mpeel: didn't realise that I was "their appropriate successor" for all...
[21:41] mpeel: is that a good general rule, though?
[21:41] cfp: well you know where to send them on
[21:42] mpeel: ok
[21:42] mpeel:  4. Initiatives (ZH) - zeyi?
[21:44] mpeel: I guess zeyi's not here ... 5. Conferences (JS) - seddon?
[21:44] Seddon: ok sure thing
[21:45] Seddon: firstly a quick discussion with regards to the Uk conference next year
[21:45] Seddon: i would like as many more suggestions from the chapter as to suggested locations
[21:46] Seddon: as i have said before, I am looking to hold it in a city in the the southern half of the UK
[21:46] Seddon: I will draw up a set or guidelines as to what to look for with regards to a venue
[21:46] Seddon: of*
[21:46] steveV: ok with that
[21:47] Seddon: I also plan to draw up a timeline to the organisation of the conference/agm
[21:47] Seddon: on a second note, i have drawn up a timeline for a 2013 wikimania bid
[21:48] Seddon: looking at manchester
[21:48] Seddon: that can be found at:
[21:48] Seddon:        http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Wikimania_Bid    
[21:48] Seddon: other rough work will be ongoing there
[21:49] Zeyi: sorry
[21:49] mpeel: thanks Seddon - that's definitely advanced planning!
[21:50] Seddon: mpeel: im not letting the next bid loose 
[21:50] mpeel: good. 
[21:50] mpeel: anything else?
[21:50] Seddon: anyone who wants to ge involved with anything conferency please email me
[21:51] Seddon: and stevev, if there is anything that you think deserves my attention in the social media world that you find out about
[21:51] Seddon: let me know
[21:51] Seddon: conference way that is
[21:51] steveV: of course - I hope our SW UK collaboration is the hub on which many successful projects are built
[21:52] Seddon: SW?
[21:52] steveV: south west
[21:52] Seddon: ahhh yes
[21:52] Seddon: anyway im done
[21:52] Seddon: unless there are any questions
[21:54] mpeel: thanks seddon - shall we return to 4. Initiatives (ZH) - zeyi?
[21:54] Zeyi:  the things I discussed at the beginning about campus activity and I will give a plan according to all suggestion about my duty.
[21:54] Seddon: yes
[21:54] Zeyi: and also plan to work on timeline of all our activities.
[21:54] steveV:                          
[21:55] mpeel: thanks zeyi
[21:55] mpeel: 6. Corporate relations (steveV)
[21:55] steveV: going slowly if at all
[21:56] steveV: I am covering ground on wiki mails to see if there is anything I have missed that I can pick up and act on
[21:56] steveV: Trying to begin the coordination of materials that can help present us in a strong light to 'external' people and organisations
[21:57] mpeel: everything takes time to figure out and plan, so going slowly is fine - much better than rushing things.
[21:57] steveV: This is a little 'educative' for me - and will help me understand our USPs even more
[21:57] steveV: I'll then be able to drive some solid initiatives here
[21:57] steveV: On DJ (my company) - things move a little slowly
[21:58] steveV: when the Corp Comms segment launches in July 1 - the plans for financial year 2010 become clearer
[21:58] steveV: I have 'sponsoring wikimedia' event on a list of proposed projects with the grand chief
[21:58] steveV: when they decide to act and ask for more detail - I will 'pass this on' to a member of the board to conclude
[21:59] steveV: as I cannot have a dual interest in the matter
[21:59] mpeel: that sounds great
[21:59] steveV: I have thoughts to put together names, addresses etc of organisations and people to contact
[21:59] steveV: that will dovetail with the materials idea
[21:59] steveV: as we'll have something to 'give them'
[22:00] steveV: I am looking for ways to short circuit the slow process of collecting names and contacts one by one thru 'other means'
[22:00] steveV: I am also trying to persuade EU marketing in DJ to open up a speaker slot at a Dow Jones Event for Wiki people
[22:01] steveV: a lot of ideas - but early days i am afriad
[22:01] steveV: finished BTW
[22:02] steveV:                          
[22:02] mpeel: that all sounds great; thanks for working on this, and pushing wikimedia at dow jones
[22:02] mpeel: the last report would be 7. Volunteers (PW), which I guess we can skip as skenmy's not here
[22:02] mpeel: so, 4. Presentation from a member, re. lawyers (TD)
[22:03] Tango42 was granted voice by ChanServ.
[22:03] mpeel: Tango42: ?
[22:03] Tango42: Thank you, Mike. Good evening everyone!
[22:03] Tango42: I have a proposal to present to you regarding legal advice.
[22:04] Tango42: So far we have sought legal advice on an ad hoc and unofficial basis. This is clearly inadequate in the long run. There has been some work (eg. with Lawworks) on getting official legal advice, but still on an ad hoc basis.
[22:05] Tango42: I think it is important that we organise ongoing formal legal representation as soon as possible. This will not only mean that we are ready when disaster inevitably strikes (from experience with other chapters we will get sued and probably sooner rather than later)
[22:06] Tango42: but also allow us to save time by not having to find someone to advise us every time we need it
[22:07] Tango42: We have very limited funds, so it is necessary that we find someone willing to work pro-bono. I think the best way to do that is to exploit the Wikipedia brand. People love Wikipedia and I'm sure there are plenty of excellent lawyers out there that would love to be associated with us.
[22:07] cfp: well we don't have to work too hard to find someone since i have one person i go to for ip queries and another i go to for more general queries. so finding someone for advice is not an issue. i accept there's an issue around finding lawyers for more formal work though.
[22:08] Tango42: True, but I'm thinking more about formal stuff
[22:08] cfp: i've pestered the oxford pro bono group twice and neither time did i get a response
[22:08] cfp: so i wouldn't be too sure that people want to be associated with us
[22:08] Tango42: I think the best way to find them is to put an ad in a magazine they will read asking for help. After a little research, the best magazine seems to be the Law Society Gazette. (http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/)
[22:09] cfp: many lawyers i expect would fall into the "wp's a joke" category
[22:09] Tango42: I have put together a first draft of an ad here: http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wmuk-lawyer-ad.jpg (more of a concept than a draft, really)
[22:09] cfp: how much would that cost
[22:09] Tango42: That's my next point!
[22:09] Tango42: Let me finish before you start with the questions!
[22:10] cfp: sorry
[22:10] cfp: go on
[22:10] Tango42: A quarter page ad would cost about £1500, which is clearly not an option.
[22:10] Tango42: Smaller ads are cheaper, but still several hundred pounds
[22:10] mpeel: several hundred pounds is still more than we can really afford right now
[22:12] Tango42: The gazette currently has an article on its front page about Wikipedia (you can decide for yourselves whether you like the article!), so they certainly seem to be interested in us. Therefore, I suggest someone contact them and see if we can get a discount (or even a free ad). I believe you can sometimes get good discounts if you are flexible about when you ad is run, although they are only a...
[22:12] Tango42: ...weekly mag and we don't have a great deal of time, so we can't be too flexible.
[22:12] cfp: if we could get it for free it'd certainly be worth the hassle of a few emails
[22:13] cfp: for £50 it might still be worth it incompatible encoding
[22:13] cfp: but i'm not sure it's worth much more as i really seriously doubt that anyone would volunteer
[22:13] Tango42: Hopefully, if we can get this ad run, we will get a significant number of responses. We can then explain to them in more detail what it is we are looking for and, if they are interested, get them to send in a CV. We can then make a short list and probably do some interviews (assuming the shortlist has more than 1 person on it!)
[22:14] Tango42: cfp, people really do love Wikipedia. You only hear the people that complain because the others keep quiet, as with most things in life, but the vast majority of people really do love us.
[22:14] Tango42: Ok, I think that's it. Any questions?
[22:15] steveV: apart from the 'money' angle I think it is a very healthy and good suggestion
[22:15] steveV: I'd like to welcome it and say thanks
[22:15] Tango42: indeed, I wasn't expecting it to be quiet so expensive when I came up with the idea
[22:15] cfp: yeah thanks for your work tango.
[22:15] Tango42: no problem
[22:15] Tango42: I think getting at least a discount is essential, even for a fairly small ad
[22:16] cfp: i reamin to be convinced we'd get any responses though.
[22:16] mpeel: it sounds like it's worth a go
[22:16] cfp: and i think there are free ways we could target pro-bono lawyers more precisely
[22:16] cfp: yeah it's worth a go seeing if we can get it free or nearly free
[22:16] Tango42: The WMF might, however, be willing to contribute something - they have mentioned a willingness to give us money for legal advice, although they may be as sceptical as cfp about whether this will work!
[22:17] Tango42: cfp, such as? I haven't seen much happen in that regard so far and it's been on the table since we were founded.
[22:17] steveV: I am sceptical too - but anyone who is trying to put something together should be encouraged to see how far they can go with it
[22:18] steveV: If there is a possibility of a low cost route we can always discuss it another day as a board
[22:18] steveV: if the idea dies nothing lost
[22:18] Tango42: so would you like me to contact them on WMUK's behalf?
[22:18] Seddon: who the WMF?
[22:19] Tango42: no, the law society gazette
[22:19] Seddon: ahhh
[22:19] steveV: I will follow the will of the rest on the final decision
[22:19] Tango42: let's find out what price we can get before we try and get the money for it
[22:19] Seddon: certainly gets my support
[22:19] cfp: such as emailing a load of pro-bono groups. there's one in every university in the uk to start with
[22:20] mpeel: cfp: could we do that simultaneously?
[22:20] Tango42: I see no reason not to email them as well. If it's that easy, though, why haven't you done it already?
[22:21] steveV: 'On behalf of the UK board I am approaching the LSGaz to ask whether it would be possible to discuss....etc'
[22:21] cfp: well i've done it for oxford (twice). it wouldn't be difficult to do it for elsewhere, just a minor hassle / time consuming
[22:22] steveV: as JS normally says '5 mins left'
[22:22] steveV:                          
[22:22] Seddon: we have a little extra time
[22:22] Seddon: as we started late
[22:23] Zeyi:                          
[22:23] Tango42: So, do people want me to go ahead and contact the LSG?
[22:23] mpeel: ok, would everyone be happy actioning Tango42 to contact the gazette on behalf of WMUK, and cfp to contact pro bono groups by email?
[22:23] steveV: ok
[22:23] Seddon: indeed
[22:23] Zeyi: ok for me
[22:24] mpeel: I'm also happy with that.
[22:24] mpeel: cfp?
[22:24] cfp: yes that'd be good
[22:24] mpeel: great
[22:24] cfp: oh sorry i didn't read the "cfp to contact..."
[22:24] Tango42: it looks like the ayes have it. I'll get on with that, then.
[22:24] Tango42: cfp: Too late now! 
[22:24] cfp: i doubt that will happen anytime soon
[22:25] cfp: i'm happy to do it eventually, but if it wants doing fast, someone else should maybe volunteer
[22:26] mpeel: I might be able to lend a hand, if you can send me a copy of your previous emails and point me in the right directions.
[22:26] cfp: k
[22:26] mpeel: ok, thanks Tango42 for your presentation
[22:26] Tango42: thank you all for your time
[22:26] Tango42 had voice removed by ChanServ.
[22:27] steveV: good luck Tango42
[22:27] mpeel: 5. Charity recognition
[22:27] mpeel: 1. HMRC response letter (All)
[22:27] mpeel: From Andrew: "I've done some work on http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submission_to_HMRC - would be grateful if someone could finish it off - esp attachment 1."
[22:27] steveV: was working on it just before meeting started
[22:27] mpeel: there were two actions: "MP agreed to find some references we can quote regarding the use of wikipedia as class assignments." - which I've done (see the talk page)
[22:27] steveV: was struggling over ending
[22:27] mpeel: & "Agreed to continue to edit on the wiki and to approve at the next meeting."
[22:28] steveV: (references) was bit I was struggling with
[22:29] mpeel: bearing in mind the time, and the lack of Andrew, shall we continue working on this over the next week, and decide by email when it's ready to go?
[22:29] Zeyi left the chat room. ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
[22:29] cfp: yes ok.
[22:29] steveV: if you lot can give me those references I'll try and get close to a finish on this
[22:30] mpeel: is the references the use of wikipedia in schools, or something else?
[22:30] steveV: I am not sure
[22:30] steveV: possibly
[22:30] mpeel: ok; let's discuss by email.
[22:30] mpeel: 2. Offers of financial help (AT)
[22:30] Zeyi joined the chat room.
[22:31] mpeel: welcome back zeyi
[22:31] mpeel: 2. Offers of financial help (AT)
[22:31] mpeel: I'm not sure what we can say here without andrew being present, so discuss by email / next week?
[22:32] ianto joined the chat room.
[22:32] mpeel: anyone?
[22:33] cfp: k
[22:33] mpeel: 6. New chapter agreement
[22:33] mpeel: I've started writing a response at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chapter_Agreement_Revision/Response
[22:34] mpeel: please take a look, and edit/discuss...
[22:34] mpeel: do we want to discuss this now, or leave it for email / next week?
[22:34] steveV: nweek
[22:34] Seddon: keep discussing it on list
[22:35] mpeel: ok, 7. AOB
[22:35] Seddon: yes
[22:35] Seddon: i have one
[22:35] mpeel: go ahead steveV
[22:35] mpeel: * go ahead Seddon (darned autocomplete)
[22:35] steveV:                          
[22:36] Seddon: there is an event i stumbled accross http://softwarefreedomday.org/
[22:36] mpeel: could you give a brief summary?
[22:37] mpeel: i.e. what is it, how does it relate to us?
[22:37] Seddon: well essentially it promotes free software
[22:37] Seddon: mosrtly run by linux people
[22:37] Seddon: given the strong ubuntu support
[22:37] Seddon: but there is no reason why we couldnt get involved as well
[22:38] Seddon: acctually
[22:38] Seddon: could someone voice ianto
[22:38] ianto was granted voice by ChanServ.
[22:38] mpeel: done
[22:39] Seddon: ianto: you could prob describe this better
[22:39] • Seddon puts you in the spotlight
[22:40] ianto: Ah well, SFD is a celebration of Free Software around the world (from my interpretation) and involves many activities
[22:40] ianto:        http://softwarefreedomday.org/StartGuide    
[22:40] ianto: There is a little start guide that the group has set forward and may be useful foy ou guys too
[22:40] ianto: *for you
[22:41] ianto: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WelshTeam/SoftwareFreedomDay Is a little group that I am part of planning an event
[22:41] ianto: Not much there currently but it is in many months away
[22:41] ianto: In Sept, I believe
[22:41] ianto: September 9 (or similra)
[22:42] ianto: http://cgi.softwarefreedomday.org/2009/map.shtml  -- Teams registered so far 
[22:42] ianto: Ah Sept 19th not 9th 
[22:43] cfp: how are you suggesting we get involved
[22:43] ianto: Well you can register a team following the start guide or join another team and co-operate to celebrate SFD in your own little way
[22:44] ianto: There arae 3 groups in the UK at the moment planning
[22:44] ianto: *are
[22:46] steveV: where are these groups based
[22:46] Seddon: Cardiff
[22:46] steveV: all of gthem?
[22:46] Seddon: no
[22:46] Seddon: there is a scunthorpe based one
[22:46] Seddon: and one near london
[22:46] steveV: ok
[22:47] mpeel: shall we discuss this by the mailing list, and see if we can come up with ideas about how we could be involved?
[22:47] Seddon: sure thing
[22:48] ianto: Last year there were 8 groups in the UK taking part, there'll hopefully be more this year 
[22:48] mpeel: thanks ianto for your summary - are you aware of the mailing list?
[22:48] mpeel: ( https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/WikimediaUK-l )
[22:48] Seddon: no i havnt drafted him into wikimedia uk just yet 
[22:49] mpeel: it's never too early to join the discussions on the list... 
[22:49] Seddon: indeed
[22:49] ianto: I'll sign up and have a look (I'm the Point of Contact of Ubuntu Cymru in case you're wondering where Seddon found me)
[22:49] Seddon: well i have nothing more 
[22:49] mpeel: thanks ianto
[22:49] ianto had voice removed by ChanServ.
[22:49] mpeel: I have two points...
[22:50] mpeel: the first was, there's planning going on for a Brussels meeting in July 2009 about EU lobbying
[22:50] mpeel:        http://internal.wikimedia.org/wiki/EU_lobby_meeting/Brussels_July_2009    
[22:50] mpeel: (not sure how much of this is public, though)
[22:50] mpeel: is anyone here interested in that meeting?
[22:51] steveV: I am a little
[22:51] steveV: I used to be a political adviser to an MEP
[22:51] steveV: in the 90's
[22:52] steveV: I'd consider being involved in the dialogue at the very least
[22:52] mpeel: great
[22:53] mpeel: I'll mention to the organizer that you're interested; hopefully he'll get in touch with you about this
[22:53] mpeel: thanks
[22:53] mpeel: second thing was with regards joint fundraising with the WMF
[22:54] mpeel: I just wanted to ask people to think about how we could go about this - whether it would simply be a link on their donate page, or something more sophisticated
[22:54] mpeel: please, come up with ideas, and share them via email...
[22:54] mpeel: that's me done; does anyone else have AOB?
[22:55] steveV: no
[22:55] mpeel: Date of next meeting - Tuesday 2 June, 8.30-10.30pm?
[22:55] steveV: ok
[22:56] steveV: JS?
[22:56] mpeel: cfp, Seddon?
[22:56] cfp: yup ok
[22:56] Zeyi was granted voice by ChanServ.
[22:56] Seddon: yep
[22:56] mpeel: apologies zeyi - just noticed that you weren't voiced...
[22:57] Zeyi:                          
[22:57] mpeel: do you have anything to add to the above?
[22:57] Zeyi: no, I will send email around after i discuss with Student Union
[22:58] mpeel: ok, that's a wrap, then. thanks all for coming.
[22:58] Zeyi: thanks
[22:58] steveV: bye

#wikimedia-uk

[20:40] Tango42: Does somebody want to voice steve?
[20:41] Thehelpfulone: I was just about to say that myself 
[20:41] mpeel: done, thanks for the reminder
[20:41] Tango42: the mode was already +m, wasn't it?
[20:42] Tango42: I checked before suggesting voicing steve
[20:42] mpeel: I didn't think it was...
[20:42] Tango42: no point voicing him otherwise
[20:43] Thehelpfulone: yep, it already was
[20:43] Thehelpfulone: mpeel: is #-board supposed to be always +m ?
[20:43] Tango42: only during meetings
[20:43] mpeel: no... it should normally be a standard channel, only +m'd during meetings
[20:43] Thehelpfulone: ah ok
[20:43] mpeel: must have forgotten to turn it off after the last meeting; apologies.
[20:44] Tango42: not that it is ever used by anyone else outside of meetings
[20:44] Thehelpfulone: heh
[20:45] Tango42: flawless minutes? is that a first?
[20:46] mpeel: I think they were corrected prior to the meeting
[20:47] Tango42: i guess you're doing the minutes this week then, mpeel
[21:04] mpeel: lots of c/f this week. 
[21:06] Tango42: yes. I was thinking, perhaps a pretty table on the wiki of all the actions for people with red and green highlighting would be good - name and shame those members not doing the stuff they are assigned!
[21:07] mpeel: we're already sort of doing that in the minutes - see e.g. http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-05-19
[21:07] Tango42: (and make a convenient way for members to see what they still have to do, which is the main purpose)
[21:07] Tango42: yeah, my idea is the bring them all together to one place, rather than scattered across the minutes for different meetings
[21:07] Tango42: also, sorting by person, rather than meeting, makes for better naming and shaming
[21:07] mpeel: if the actions are carried forward, then they're normally included in the latest minutes until they're done
[21:08] mpeel: sorting by person is a good idea, so long as the minute-taker is able to do that
[21:10] Tango42: I still thing big red highlighting for things that haven't been done would be good
[21:10] Tango42: the timeline was useful when the board as a whole needed to get certain things done, this is basically an extension of that idea
[21:11] Tango42: I agree with Seddon - my impression from Berlin was that holding a chapters meeting is requires a lot of time and money, we have little of either at the moment
[21:12] Tango42: (I think I mentioned this last week)
[21:14] Tango42: cfp: Congrats! That's excellent news.
[21:17] Tango42: If you discourage people from using paypal you'll discourage people from donating. We should take an "every little helps" approach to soliciting donations.
[21:24] Tango42: Is there no way to be verified as a recipient only, not as a buyer?
[21:29] Tango42: I suggest asking paypal for advice - almost all charities require multiple signatories for transactions and many use paypal for donations. We can't be the first charity to have this problem, so there must be a solution.
[21:34] Tango42: Wikipedia has "internal content filtering technology"?
[21:35] Seddon: yer, the abuse filter
[21:35] mpeel: edit/revert buttons, I guess
[21:35] Seddon: ^
[21:36] mpeel: is the abuse filter properly turned on now?
[21:36] Seddon: unsure
[21:38] Tango42: yeah, the abuse filter works, I think, but it stops edits happening in the first place, so it can't have been applied in this case
[22:03] Tango42 was granted voice by ChanServ.
[22:03] Tango42 had voice removed by ChanServ.
[22:29] Zeyi left the chat room. ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
[22:30] Zeyi joined the chat room.
[22:49] cfp: on an unrelated query, does anyone have an alternative to the navimgx template that actually works
[22:49] cfp: see e.g. here: http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Donate
[22:50] cfp: on my pc at least the link is only over the first half of the image, which is kind of rubbish.
[22:50] cfp: let me know if you want me to temporarily unprotect anything i've protected in order to sort this.
[22:50] cfp: (thanks in advance)
[22:53] Tango42: hmmm... odd. The image is indented, so doesn't line up with the link, but I can't see why.
[22:55] cfp: it's all one image (the donate button and the card logos) if that was your point
[22:56] cfp: it's not indented on my pc, it just doesn't have a big enough link area
[22:56] Tango42: is it? oh, hang on...
[22:56] Tango42: I'll look again, then!