Meetings/2009-09-01/IRC

#wikimedia-uk-board

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[2009-09-01 20:28:22] =-= Topic for #wikimedia-uk-board is ``The next Wikimedia UK board meeting will be here on Tuesday 1 September at 8.30pm BST | Agenda at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-09-01/Agenda | Please come and listen but only Board members will be voiced | Please share your comments in #Wikimedia-UK''
[2009-09-01 20:28:22] =-= Topic for #wikimedia-uk-board was set by mpeel on 18 August 2009 23:10:03
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[2009-09-01 20:31:14] <AndrewRT> we ready to start?
[2009-09-01 20:31:25] <AndrewRT> hi all btw
[2009-09-01 20:31:31] <AndrewRT> :)
[2009-09-01 20:31:42] <skenmy> o/ ready here
[2009-09-01 20:32:42] <cfp> hi
[2009-09-01 20:33:07] <AndrewRT> mpeel u there?
[2009-09-01 20:33:12] <mpeel> sorry; was afk
[2009-09-01 20:33:19] <AndrewRT> we starting mpeel?
[2009-09-01 20:33:21] <mpeel> no zeyi yet?
[2009-09-01 20:33:35] <mpeel> yes, we should probably get started
[2009-09-01 20:33:36] <AndrewRT> aparantly not
[2009-09-01 20:33:53] <AndrewRT> she's put herself down as attending
[2009-09-01 20:34:14] <mpeel> I talked to her on the phone earlier, and she gave the impression that she was attending this evening
[2009-09-01 20:34:24] <AndrewRT> lets start anyway
[2009-09-01 20:34:33] -->| zeyi (i=561f2e4f@gateway/web/freenode/x-octyepeaecztlyez) has joined #wikimedia-uk-board
[2009-09-01 20:34:37] <mpeel> ah - she's here now
[2009-09-01 20:34:39] <AndrewRT> ah zeyi!
[2009-09-01 20:34:41] <AndrewRT> welcome
[2009-09-01 20:34:50] <zeyi> hi, sorry for late
[2009-09-01 20:34:50] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk-board +o mpeel  by ChanServ
[2009-09-01 20:34:55] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk-board +v zeyi  by ChanServ
[2009-09-01 20:34:58] =-= Mode #wikimedia-uk-board -o mpeel  by ChanServ
[2009-09-01 20:35:05] <mpeel> ok, let's start
[2009-09-01 20:35:13] <mpeel> agenda is at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-09-01/Agenda
[2009-09-01 20:35:21] <mpeel> 1. Apologies for Absence
[2009-09-01 20:35:30] <mpeel> Steve sends his apologies; everyone else is here
[2009-09-01 20:35:38] <mpeel> 2. Minutes of Meeting dated 2009-08-18 - approval & actions
[2009-09-01 20:35:38] <AndrewRT> noted
[2009-09-01 20:35:46] <mpeel> minutes are at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-08-18
[2009-09-01 20:35:49] <mpeel> is everyone happy with them?
[2009-09-01 20:36:02] <skenmy> No objections here
[2009-09-01 20:36:11] <AndrewRT> fine by me
[2009-09-01 20:37:11] <Seddon> fine by me
[2009-09-01 20:37:12] <zeyi> ok here
[2009-09-01 20:37:18] <cfp> seem fine
[2009-09-01 20:37:21] <AndrewRT> thanks
[2009-09-01 20:37:24] <mpeel> I'm also happy with them
[2009-09-01 20:37:32] <mpeel> AndrewRT: do you want to take us through the actions?
[2009-09-01 20:37:34] <AndrewRT> sure
[2009-09-01 20:37:46] <mpeel> I've listed the 4 marked for discussion under "matters arising", btw
[2009-09-01 20:37:53] <AndrewRT> .. AT to draft an email to the WMF formalising the agreement to use Wikimedia Foundation trademarks in members-only merchandising
[2009-09-01 20:38:01] <AndrewRT>  sent this email
[2009-09-01 20:38:09] <AndrewRT> draft email I mean
[2009-09-01 20:38:12] <AndrewRT> to teh Board
[2009-09-01 20:38:21] <AndrewRT> is everyone happy with me sending it to the Foundation now?
[2009-09-01 20:38:35] <mpeel> AndrewRT: when was it sent?
[2009-09-01 20:38:41] <AndrewRT> a while back!
[2009-09-01 20:38:50] <AndrewRT> just after the last meeting
[2009-09-01 20:39:08] <AndrewRT> if you cant remember shall I take it offline
[2009-09-01 20:39:40] <AndrewRT> ok I'll move on
[2009-09-01 20:39:42] <AndrewRT> 7. PW will develop a proposal for buying a computer for the Schools Project with, potentially, peripherals such as a projector, screen, printer etc.
[2009-09-01 20:40:02] <AndrewRT> skenmy - was it you who marked as "canc"?
[2009-09-01 20:40:03] <skenmy> This needs discussing due to the proposed reallocation of funds
[2009-09-01 20:40:04] <mpeel> AndrewRT: I think I was happy with it, but perhaps send it around again and give people 24 hours to respond before sending it to the WMF?
[2009-09-01 20:40:11] <AndrewRT> mpeel - sure
[2009-09-01 20:40:29] <AndrewRT> i see
[2009-09-01 20:40:37] <AndrewRT> mpeel - shall we discuss this now?
[2009-09-01 20:40:38] <skenmy> Before I am able to complete a budget - I need to know how much I can spend and where :)
[2009-09-01 20:40:43] <mpeel> AndrewRT: yes
[2009-09-01 20:40:45] <AndrewRT> yes makes sense
[2009-09-01 20:40:50] <AndrewRT> over to you skenmy
[2009-09-01 20:40:53] <mpeel> I think this is essentially matters arising now, anyway. :)
[2009-09-01 20:41:01] <skenmy> okay
[2009-09-01 20:41:21] <skenmy> we have a current proposal on the intiatives page http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Initiatives/Schools_project#Budget
[2009-09-01 20:41:31] <skenmy> however - this is now out of date due to the proposed reallocation of funds
[2009-09-01 20:41:39] <skenmy> and we are now past our deadline for the approval
[2009-09-01 20:42:10] <AndrewRT> what is "proposed reallocated of funds"?
[2009-09-01 20:42:33] <skenmy> we are approaching the WMF to reallocate the schools project funds, no?
[2009-09-01 20:42:39] <AndrewRT> yes
[2009-09-01 20:42:55] <skenmy> I'll need to know what's going where before I can finalise a budget
[2009-09-01 20:43:01] <AndrewRT> is this the CRB check costs?
[2009-09-01 20:43:12] <skenmy> primarily
[2009-09-01 20:43:23] <AndrewRT> from my recollection we were going to ask two thiings:
[2009-09-01 20:43:32] <AndrewRT> a) computer --> computer plus peripherals
[2009-09-01 20:43:52] <AndrewRT> b) £500 CRB checks out of computer and/or travel budgets
[2009-09-01 20:44:15] <AndrewRT> Are you happy in principle with the £500 CRB check costs coming out of the £2,000 schools budget?
[2009-09-01 20:44:19] <skenmy> I am.
[2009-09-01 20:44:30] <mpeel> which part of the budget would they come from?
[2009-09-01 20:44:33] <AndrewRT> do have a preference about which bit it comes out of?
[2009-09-01 20:45:01] <skenmy> No preference - shared between the budgets might lessen the blow to one or the other
[2009-09-01 20:45:04] <AndrewRT> http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Initiatives/Schools_project#Budget comes to £2,500 total
[2009-09-01 20:45:13] <skenmy> i.e. so we end up with 750 for computer + peripherals
[2009-09-01 20:45:14] [INFO] This channel requires that you have registered and identified yourself with the network's nickname registration services (e.g. NickServ). Please see the documentation of this network's nickname registration services that should be found in the MOTD (/motd to display it).
[2009-09-01 20:45:17] <skenmy> 750 for travel
[2009-09-01 20:45:21] <skenmy> and 500 for CRB
[2009-09-01 20:45:36] <AndrewRT> ok, do you want me to approach the WMF to request this reallocation/
[2009-09-01 20:45:38] <AndrewRT> ?
[2009-09-01 20:45:47] <AndrewRT> (or should it be cfp?)
[2009-09-01 20:45:50] <skenmy> I would also like for "travel" to include shipping costs
[2009-09-01 20:46:00] <AndrewRT> sure
[2009-09-01 20:46:27] <cfp> i'm happy to do it
[2009-09-01 20:46:31] <skenmy> so if we could include that as a clarification point, it would be most helpful
[2009-09-01 20:46:36] <AndrewRT> thanks cfp
[2009-09-01 20:46:37] <Seddon> im happy with that budget
[2009-09-01 20:46:45] <mpeel> AndrewRT: whilst on the subject of requesting modifications to the WMF grant, it would be good if the "content generation projects" budget could be for both advertising + travel.
[2009-09-01 20:47:23] <AndrewRT> skenmy - you ok to draft a proposal now so I can carry forward the action?
[2009-09-01 20:47:33] <skenmy> I am.
[2009-09-01 20:47:43] <AndrewRT> mpeel - yes I agree, you ok to do that cfp?
[2009-09-01 20:47:49] <AndrewRT> thanks skenmy
[2009-09-01 20:47:57] <cfp> yup
[2009-09-01 20:48:16] <AndrewRT> cheers
[2009-09-01 20:48:34] <AndrewRT> under the chairs report: "MP agreed to email round suggested dates and locations to see what people could make." [re the in person meeting]
[2009-09-01 20:48:39] <AndrewRT> you wanted to discuss mpeel?
[2009-09-01 20:48:44] <mpeel> yes
[2009-09-01 20:49:17] <mpeel> I'm not sure when the best time would be to have an in person meeting
[2009-09-01 20:49:27] <mpeel> whether having it at the same time as the london wikimeet would be wise
[2009-09-01 20:49:42] <mpeel> what's the earliest time on a sunday that we could conceivably start having a meeting?
[2009-09-01 20:49:43] <AndrewRT> oh
[2009-09-01 20:50:08] <AndrewRT> if people are travelling down in the morning it is probably about 12pm?
[2009-09-01 20:50:29] <mpeel> the central question is, whether there would be sufficient time on a single day to have the meeting ad join in with the wikimeet - I suspect not, especially if starting at midday...
[2009-09-01 20:50:30] <AndrewRT> trains are awful on a Sunday
[2009-09-01 20:51:06] <AndrewRT> how much feedback have you had mpeel on dates?
[2009-09-01 20:51:13] <mpeel> yours, AndrewRT 
[2009-09-01 20:51:33] <mpeel> tom said "Afternoons/evenings are generally more convenient."
[2009-09-01 20:51:35] <cfp> weren't we talking about combining a meeting with the oxford thing, with people staying overnight to give us a full evening to talk etc
[2009-09-01 20:51:40] <mpeel> paul "Baring in mind I will soon be starting training with the Essex Police, I cannot commit to any weekend dates. I will endeavour to attend, however!"
[2009-09-01 20:51:52] <skenmy> I've been as definite as I could about dates - not helpful I know but I am unable to commit to anything until I recieve my timetable
[2009-09-01 20:51:58] <AndrewRT> cfp - yes, but unfortunately quite a few people couldn't make that date
[2009-09-01 20:51:59] <mpeel> cfp: yes, that was the original plan. But some people couldn't make that weekend.
[2009-09-01 20:52:26] <AndrewRT> skenmy: in principle are you ok to attend if the dates agree?
[2009-09-01 20:52:27] <mpeel> staying overnight would be a good idea, but could be costly...
[2009-09-01 20:52:36] <skenmy> AndrewRT, absolutely
[2009-09-01 20:52:45] <AndrewRT> great!
[2009-09-01 20:52:52] <cfp> it's about £25 per person per night here if i remember right
[2009-09-01 20:53:08] <AndrewRT> how about you Seddon?
[2009-09-01 20:53:26] <mpeel> cfp: that's not bad, but would add up to £175 for the 7 of us.
[2009-09-01 20:53:52] <AndrewRT> mpeel - am i right to think we're asking board members to pay for their own travel & accommodation?
[2009-09-01 20:53:57] <cfp> and i'm not sure there are enough single rooms for seven anyway.
[2009-09-01 20:54:04] <Seddon> given that im moving to cardiff over the next two weeks and away on fieldwork for another 2 and a half week i dont know what i can commit to or not
[2009-09-01 20:54:07] <mpeel> AndrewRT: that would be the best approach, if everyone was happy with that
[2009-09-01 20:54:38] <cfp> if it's in london i certainly have no problem paying for my own travel.
[2009-09-01 20:54:53] <AndrewRT> what do you want to do mpeel?
[2009-09-01 20:55:10] <mpeel> if we go with a london wikimeet, then the next 2 dates would be 10/11 october, or 7/8 November
[2009-09-01 20:55:23] <skenmy> 10/11 would be fine for me.
[2009-09-01 20:55:24] <mpeel> Is there one of those dates that would work?
[2009-09-01 20:55:48] <AndrewRT> either is fine for me
[2009-09-01 20:55:50] <mpeel> I'm happy with either date
[2009-09-01 20:55:58] <mpeel> cfp, Seddon, zeyi?
[2009-09-01 20:56:11] <AndrewRT> shall we pencil in 10th October subject to sufficient people confirming attendence?
[2009-09-01 20:56:15] <Seddon> i cant say atm, no idea whether itll be possible or not
[2009-09-01 20:56:15] <cfp> the november dates are better for me i think
[2009-09-01 20:56:38] <mpeel> Seddon: do you know when you'd be able to say?
[2009-09-01 20:56:42] <AndrewRT> ok 7th November then?
[2009-09-01 20:56:49] <mpeel> skenmy: would november be ok for you?
[2009-09-01 20:56:58] <zeyi> I can do both, I think. 
[2009-09-01 20:56:59] <skenmy> can't say for sure
[2009-09-01 20:57:02] <Seddon> hopefully 23 september
[2009-09-01 20:57:24] <cfp> well i could survive the october dates, it's a matter of preference not necessity.
[2009-09-01 20:57:32] <mpeel> are we agreed that this is the best approach to take - saturday board meeting then sunday wikimeet?
[2009-09-01 20:57:44] <mpeel> one thing to bear in mind is the winter fundraiser, which starts in November
[2009-09-01 20:57:47] <skenmy> sounds like a wiki-ful weekend to me! :D
[2009-09-01 20:57:57] <Seddon> i gotta go guys
[2009-09-01 20:58:01] <Seddon> take care all
[2009-09-01 20:58:05] <AndrewRT> thanks Seddon
[2009-09-01 20:58:05] <mpeel> thanks for coming Seddon 
[2009-09-01 20:58:07] <Seddon> sorry i cant stay
[2009-09-01 20:58:12] <zeyi> bye, seddon
[2009-09-01 20:58:23] |<-- Seddon has left irc.freenode.net ("Wikipedia: Pruning unwated branches from the tree of knowledge")
[2009-09-01 20:58:48] <AndrewRT> in that case shall we do October instead?
[2009-09-01 20:58:50] <cfp> i'm not entirely sure i'd be in for the wiki meet the next day if it was a two day affair. that'd be quite a big chunk of time to dedicate
[2009-09-01 20:59:00] <AndrewRT> cfp: yeah I'm probably the same
[2009-09-01 20:59:03] <cfp> but i'd certainly go to the board meeting
[2009-09-01 20:59:05] <mpeel> cfp: the wikimeet could be optional
[2009-09-01 20:59:10] <mpeel> * could = would
[2009-09-01 20:59:39] <mpeel> shall we pencil in 10/11 October, and discuss by email?
[2009-09-01 20:59:44] <AndrewRT> sure
[2009-09-01 20:59:50] <skenmy> fine here
[2009-09-01 21:00:08] <zeyi> ok
[2009-09-01 21:00:13] <AndrewRT> back to the minutes then http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-08-18
[2009-09-01 21:00:14] <mpeel> ok, shall we move on?
[2009-09-01 21:00:28] <AndrewRT> that was all the actions I had to discuss - is there anything else anyone wanted to raise?
[2009-09-01 21:00:37] <mpeel> two points
[2009-09-01 21:00:46] <AndrewRT> sure?
[2009-09-01 21:00:48] <mpeel> actually... one
[2009-09-01 21:00:55] <mpeel> commons press release
[2009-09-01 21:01:13] <mpeel> draft is at http://board.wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/5_million_Commons_files - hope everyone's seen it
[2009-09-01 21:01:15] <AndrewRT> ah yes - great that we're doing one and WMF aren't!
[2009-09-01 21:01:25] <mpeel> pity the WMF aren't... :)
[2009-09-01 21:01:47] <AndrewRT> i had a couple of suggested changes
[2009-09-01 21:01:52] <AndrewRT> I'll do them offline
[2009-09-01 21:01:57] <AndrewRT> any idea when it'll happen?
[2009-09-01 21:02:01] <mpeel> first, is everyone happy for it to go onto the public wiki to be edited by all?
[2009-09-01 21:02:08] <skenmy> we are 2,000 files away
[2009-09-01 21:02:21] <mpeel> "4,997,721" is the current count
[2009-09-01 21:02:27] <mpeel> so tomorrow, day after at the latest
[2009-09-01 21:02:45] <AndrewRT> sure
[2009-09-01 21:02:59] <mpeel> I'd like to advertise the press release to wikimediauk-l, commons-l and wmfcc-l, plus on Commons Village Pump.
[2009-09-01 21:03:08] <mpeel> so that we get people helping out, and spreading the word when it's done
[2009-09-01 21:03:22] <mpeel> is that OK with everyone?
[2009-09-01 21:03:26] <AndrewRT> good idea - but I suggest we fix it and get it out as soon as it happens
[2009-09-01 21:03:37] <mpeel> definitely
[2009-09-01 21:03:51] <zeyi> great
[2009-09-01 21:04:05] <mpeel> ... the problem is, I'm flying to Poland tomorrow, and won't be back until Saturday. So I can't handle any press phone calls that arise from it.
[2009-09-01 21:04:24] <skenmy> I'm happy to pick them up
[2009-09-01 21:04:26] <AndrewRT> you can redirect to me if you want
[2009-09-01 21:04:37] <skenmy> (as I said on your last trip!)
[2009-09-01 21:04:42] <mpeel> great, thanks
[2009-09-01 21:05:06] <mpeel> two options: 1) should I post the phone to one of you, 2) shall I redirect the number?
[2009-09-01 21:05:20] <AndrewRT> redirect would be best I think
[2009-09-01 21:05:22] <skenmy> i'm happy with either
[2009-09-01 21:05:38] <mpeel> ok, redirect then, if possible. Otherwise I'll post it tomorrow morning.
[2009-09-01 21:05:50] <mpeel> (should be possible; need to double-check)
[2009-09-01 21:06:06] <mpeel> is one of you willing to make your phone number public, so that there can be two contacts on the press release?
[2009-09-01 21:06:14] <AndrewRT> sure
[2009-09-01 21:06:17] <skenmy> sure
[2009-09-01 21:06:20] <AndrewRT> hehe
[2009-09-01 21:06:22] <mpeel> great, thanks. :)
[2009-09-01 21:06:23] <zeyi> I can release the news to some research mail list, Andrew-can you send the draft to me when it happen?
[2009-09-01 21:06:30] <skenmy> ^5 AndrewRT
[2009-09-01 21:06:39] <mpeel> which one of you is going to be most available in the next few days?
[2009-09-01 21:06:42] <AndrewRT> zeyi - it'll be on wikimediauk-l do you read that?
[2009-09-01 21:06:50] <AndrewRT> I'm off work atm
[2009-09-01 21:06:59] <mpeel> i.e. which of you want the WMUK number redirecting to you? that's going to be the busiest...
[2009-09-01 21:07:06] <skenmy> I'm in work at the moment :)
[2009-09-01 21:07:11] <skenmy> well
[2009-09-01 21:07:20] <skenmy> if you redirect to one of us and list the other number
[2009-09-01 21:07:22] <AndrewRT> hair cut at 5:20 tomoz that's it!
[2009-09-01 21:07:24] <mpeel> I guess AndrewRT's going to be best, then?
[2009-09-01 21:07:27] <skenmy> that might balance the load a little bit
[2009-09-01 21:07:33] <mpeel> redirect to Andrew, and list Skenmy's number?
[2009-09-01 21:07:33] <zeyi> AndrewRT, got it, thanks
[2009-09-01 21:07:39] <skenmy> I'm happy with that
[2009-09-01 21:07:40] <AndrewRT> good idea
[2009-09-01 21:07:49] <mpeel> great, thank you
[2009-09-01 21:08:11] <mpeel> I'll be contactable by email + skype the rest of this week, btw
[2009-09-01 21:08:32] <mpeel> so if there's any difficult questions or problems, feel free to email or skype me.
[2009-09-01 21:08:42] <mpeel> I think that's it with this - thanks guys
[2009-09-01 21:08:56] <mpeel> anything else with the minutes? http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-08-18
[2009-09-01 21:09:19] <skenmy> nope!
[2009-09-01 21:09:22] <skenmy> brb - need a drink
[2009-09-01 21:09:44] <mpeel> AndrewRT, cfp, zeyi?
[2009-09-01 21:09:47] <AndrewRT> yep
[2009-09-01 21:09:52] <zeyi> yes
[2009-09-01 21:10:07] <mpeel> is that a "yes, I have something", or a "yes, I'm happy"?
[2009-09-01 21:10:14] <AndrewRT> yes we're happy
[2009-09-01 21:10:17] <AndrewRT> :)
[2009-09-01 21:10:21] <zeyi> hehe, :)
[2009-09-01 21:10:32] <mpeel> :)
[2009-09-01 21:10:32] <mpeel> cfp?
[2009-09-01 21:10:58] <mpeel> 4. Reports (max 5 mins/ea) 
[2009-09-01 21:11:00] <mpeel> 4.1 Secretary (AT) - http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-09-01/Agenda/Secretary%27s_Report
[2009-09-01 21:11:04] <mpeel> AndrewRT?
[2009-09-01 21:11:12] <AndrewRT> I've marked two thiings as discuss
[2009-09-01 21:11:15] <cfp> yes i'm happy (belatedly)
[2009-09-01 21:11:19] <AndrewRT> shall I start with them?
[2009-09-01 21:11:20] * mpeel counts one thing
[2009-09-01 21:11:32] <AndrewRT> refresh teh page!
[2009-09-01 21:11:34] <mpeel> ah - now there's two. :)
[2009-09-01 21:11:46] <AndrewRT> "I had a brief IRC conversation with Rand Montoya, the Head of Community Giving at the Wikimedia Foundation regarding the proposed agreement for the annual fundraiser, and specifically the proposed 50/50 revenue split"
[2009-09-01 21:11:57] <AndrewRT> we don't have to discuss this now
[2009-09-01 21:12:15] <AndrewRT> but I suggest we put it on the agenda at the next business meeting
[2009-09-01 21:12:24] <AndrewRT> and in the meantime I'll do an email round
[2009-09-01 21:12:29] <AndrewRT> is that ok with everyone
[2009-09-01 21:12:30] <AndrewRT> ?
[2009-09-01 21:12:31] <mpeel> ok
[2009-09-01 21:12:46] <skenmy> fine by me
[2009-09-01 21:12:47] <cfp> k
[2009-09-01 21:12:50] <mpeel> we've discussed this by phone, so you've already had some of my comments about it.
[2009-09-01 21:12:51] <zeyi> ok, waiting to see email
[2009-09-01 21:12:53] <AndrewRT> "The board received an email from a supporter who wants to help us anonymously" - suggest I draft a response
[2009-09-01 21:13:09] <AndrewRT> and send it round the board? Think it deserves a reply
[2009-09-01 21:13:19] <mpeel> it definitely deserves a reply
[2009-09-01 21:13:22] <AndrewRT> (and thanks and encouragement of course!)
[2009-09-01 21:13:23] <skenmy> Agreed
[2009-09-01 21:13:24] <mpeel> did you want to discuss this in camera?
[2009-09-01 21:13:33] <mpeel> or are you happy discussing by email?
[2009-09-01 21:13:43] <AndrewRT> originally, but I think no need really - lets just do by email
[2009-09-01 21:13:47] <mpeel> ok
[2009-09-01 21:13:48] <AndrewRT> if you're ok with that
[2009-09-01 21:13:55] <AndrewRT> k
[2009-09-01 21:14:00] <AndrewRT> any other qs from my report?
[2009-09-01 21:14:39] <mpeel> "# I've registered for the C&binet conference on 26-28 October" - glad to hear that
[2009-09-01 21:14:55] <AndrewRT> yep - got that today
[2009-09-01 21:15:07] <mpeel> I'm happy - thanks for the report AndrewRT 
[2009-09-01 21:15:31] <cfp> can we go in camera briefly for mine
[2009-09-01 21:15:33] <mpeel> 4.2 Treasurer (cfp)
[2009-09-01 21:15:59] <AndrewRT> have we got any membership applications?
[2009-09-01 21:16:03] <mpeel> ok; in camera we go
[2009-09-01 21:16:04] <cfp> yes 3
[2009-09-01 21:16:09] <AndrewRT> fantastic!
[2009-09-01 21:16:20] <mpeel> woo
[2009-09-01 21:20:13] <cfp> 32 i guess
[2009-09-01 21:24:31] <AndrewRT> backk in the room
[2009-09-01 21:24:39] * skenmy undraws the curtain
[2009-09-01 21:24:46] <AndrewRT> for the minutes - members 30,31,32 approved unanimously
[2009-09-01 21:24:47] <mpeel> ... and we're back
[2009-09-01 21:24:53] <AndrewRT> subject to cheques clearing
[2009-09-01 21:25:07] <mpeel> cfp: anything more with your report?
[2009-09-01 21:26:12] <cfp> nothing else to report, no new transactions and i've been out of the country hence unable to do anything else
[2009-09-01 21:26:23] <mpeel> thanks cfp 
[2009-09-01 21:26:37] <mpeel> 4.3 Chair (MP) - report at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-09-01/Agenda/Chair%27s_Report
[2009-09-01 21:26:50] <mpeel> three "discuss" items, but we've already done the first and third
[2009-09-01 21:27:08] <mpeel> the other one is "I've started fleshing out this idea on the webpages. Would it be worth having a dedicated domain name for this?"
[2009-09-01 21:27:18] <mpeel> wrt http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Britain_Loves_Wikipedia
[2009-09-01 21:27:20] <AndrewRT> we have the budget
[2009-09-01 21:27:31] <AndrewRT> (from the advertising bit)
[2009-09-01 21:28:02] <mpeel> the rationale is that it's easier to distribute and remember something shorter than http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Britain_Loves_Wikipedia
[2009-09-01 21:28:14] <mpeel> e.g. http://www.britainloveswikipedia.org.uk/
[2009-09-01 21:28:30] <cfp> still quite long
[2009-09-01 21:28:32] <AndrewRT> up to you i think - if you think it's good use of the budget
[2009-09-01 21:28:39] <cfp> www.blw.org.uk ?
[2009-09-01 21:28:51] <cfp> it's a pittance so it's seems like a sensible spend to me
[2009-09-01 21:29:01] <mpeel> cfp: what's easier to remember, an acronym or a few words?
[2009-09-01 21:29:04] <AndrewRT> lots of people use .org or .com in the UK
[2009-09-01 21:29:12] <AndrewRT> although the purists hate it!
[2009-09-01 21:29:23] <mpeel> .uk domains have the advantage that they're cheaper (25% of the cost of a US domain)
[2009-09-01 21:29:37] <AndrewRT> blw.org and blw.com are both takem
[2009-09-01 21:29:43] <cfp> wikibritain.org is catchy
[2009-09-01 21:29:48] <skenmy> i think the longer version is better
[2009-09-01 21:29:53] <mpeel> blw.org.uk is available
[2009-09-01 21:30:08] <mpeel> wikibritain.org is taken
[2009-09-01 21:30:19] <cfp> annoying.
[2009-09-01 21:30:36] <AndrewRT> we all happy in principle with this?
[2009-09-01 21:30:38] <mpeel> wikibritain.org.uk isn't
[2009-09-01 21:30:45] <AndrewRT> if so, mpeel do you want to register it?
[2009-09-01 21:30:49] <skenmy> happpy in principle, yes
[2009-09-01 21:31:02] <mpeel> AndrewRT: the problem is, register which? 
[2009-09-01 21:31:07] <cfp> yup happy with any of these suggestions
[2009-09-01 21:31:25] <AndrewRT> mpeel - do you want to research what's available and then recommend one?
[2009-09-01 21:31:37] <mpeel> AndrewRT: OK, will recommend by email
[2009-09-01 21:32:13] <mpeel> will assume that people are happy with my recommendation 24 hours after sending the email, if I don't hear anything back.
[2009-09-01 21:32:23] <mpeel> any questions about my report?
[2009-09-01 21:32:33] <mpeel> (it's been a busy few weeks...)
[2009-09-01 21:32:47] <AndrewRT> nope
[2009-09-01 21:32:50] <AndrewRT> thanks for that
[2009-09-01 21:33:15] <mpeel> 4.4 Conferences (JS) - he's given a report at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-09-01/Agenda/Conferences%27s_Report
[2009-09-01 21:33:31] <AndrewRT> "As a wikimedian I do not expect to be putting a bid in for 2011. Due to time constraints. If any other member of the UK is thinking about a 2011 or 2012 bid please do contact me for advice."
[2009-09-01 21:33:41] <AndrewRT> so we're back to Wikimania Manchester 2013 it seems...
[2009-09-01 21:33:47] <mpeel> that seems logical
[2009-09-01 21:34:00] <skenmy> I'm half tempted
[2009-09-01 21:34:12] <skenmy> however I believe it would be a wasted, rushed effort
[2009-09-01 21:34:22] <skenmy> we are better off building a highly strong 2013 bid
[2009-09-01 21:34:29] <AndrewRT> i think so too
[2009-09-01 21:34:42] <skenmy> 2012 is probably not a good idea :P
[2009-09-01 21:34:47] <AndrewRT> we'll get great experience from the 2010 UKCON/WMUK conference
[2009-09-01 21:34:52] <skenmy> yes
[2009-09-01 21:34:53] <mpeel> joint event with the Olympics? ;-)
[2009-09-01 21:34:54] <skenmy> absolutely
[2009-09-01 21:34:55] <AndrewRT> _OKCON_
[2009-09-01 21:34:58] <AndrewRT> hehe
[2009-09-01 21:34:59] <skenmy> mpeel - hahaha
[2009-09-01 21:35:07] <skenmy> "and here come the Wikimedia UK team"
[2009-09-01 21:35:10] <skenmy> *waving*
[2009-09-01 21:35:18] <skenmy> *sit down at desk, begin meeting*
[2009-09-01 21:35:33] <zeyi> hehe
[2009-09-01 21:35:52] <mpeel> OKCon sounds good
[2009-09-01 21:36:04] <skenmy> OKCon sounds like it's going to be great
[2009-09-01 21:36:05] <mpeel> it's definitely a good approach to start off with smaller meetings and gain experience + contacts
[2009-09-01 21:36:29] <mpeel> ok, moving on?
[2009-09-01 21:36:33] <AndrewRT> sure
[2009-09-01 21:36:38] <mpeel> 5.5 Corporate relations (SV) - steve's not here, and hasn't left a report.
[2009-09-01 21:36:48] <mpeel> so 5.6 Initiatives (zeyi)
[2009-09-01 21:36:55] <mpeel> report is at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-09-01/Agenda/Initiatives_Report
[2009-09-01 21:37:02] <AndrewRT> "Two initiatives--Britain Loves Wikipedia & School projects have finished their plan and budget, which are waiting for approved in the board meeting"
[2009-09-01 21:37:11] <AndrewRT> do they need to be approved by the board?
[2009-09-01 21:37:21] <AndrewRT> or should the projects be allowed to run themselves?
[2009-09-01 21:37:32] <mpeel> I'm not quite sure I'd call the BLW timeline or budget "finished"...
[2009-09-01 21:37:40] <mpeel> I'd rather it ran itself. ;-)
[2009-09-01 21:37:45] <skenmy> agreed
[2009-09-01 21:38:41] <AndrewRT> ok
[2009-09-01 21:38:49] <mpeel> before large amounts of money are spent, a budget should be in existance and well developed, though.
[2009-09-01 21:39:05] <mpeel> it's the expenditure of money that needs to be board approved
[2009-09-01 21:39:10] <AndrewRT> ok that makes sense
[2009-09-01 21:39:51] <mpeel> anything else to discuss, or shall we move on?
[2009-09-01 21:40:01] <AndrewRT> I wanted to do the budget/timeline for the Worplace Lunches by this meeting
[2009-09-01 21:40:05] <AndrewRT> but didn't get round to it
[2009-09-01 21:40:07] <AndrewRT> apologies for that
[2009-09-01 21:40:23] <AndrewRT> I've had further discussions with SV, so we are moving forward with it
[2009-09-01 21:40:31] <zeyi> I didn't manage to contact sv, sorry for that
[2009-09-01 21:40:34] <mpeel> when do you estimate you can have the budget/timeline sketched out by?
[2009-09-01 21:40:43] <AndrewRT> I can certainly do 15th
[2009-09-01 21:41:14] <mpeel> thanks AndrewRT 
[2009-09-01 21:41:22] <mpeel> shall we move on?
[2009-09-01 21:41:27] <mpeel> 4.7 Volunteers report (skenmy) - report at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-09-01/Agenda/Volunteers_Report
[2009-09-01 21:41:47] <AndrewRT> thanks skenmy for this
[2009-09-01 21:41:52] <AndrewRT> what's PLASA?
[2009-09-01 21:42:07] <skenmy> PLASA is an entertainment industry trade show
[2009-09-01 21:42:14] <skenmy> technical theatre
[2009-09-01 21:42:52] <skenmy> okay - as for point one
[2009-09-01 21:42:53] <mpeel> is that http://www.plasashow.com/visit/ ?
[2009-09-01 21:43:02] <skenmy> thats the one
[2009-09-01 21:43:15] <AndrewRT> ah interesting - good to know
[2009-09-01 21:43:32] <AndrewRT> thanks the starting the discussion on membership
[2009-09-01 21:43:33] <skenmy> point one - the thread on the mailing list has been dead
[2009-09-01 21:43:38] <skenmy> one reply from Tom
[2009-09-01 21:43:43] <skenmy> with some good thought points
[2009-09-01 21:43:44] <AndrewRT> I'll post some ideas myself and hopefully we can get some ideas flowing
[2009-09-01 21:43:52] <skenmy> excellent
[2009-09-01 21:44:12] <skenmy> i'd be greatful if everyone could try and contribute
[2009-09-01 21:44:41] <AndrewRT> sure
[2009-09-01 21:45:11] <skenmy> on a related point for PLASA, Andrew
[2009-09-01 21:45:13] <AndrewRT> we've already had a board discussion on this subject - not sure there's much more we can do here on this
[2009-09-01 21:45:14] <mpeel> two points: merchandising would be a good draw, as would the ability to easily join when donating in the winter fundraiser
[2009-09-01 21:45:32] <skenmy> any chance of a small run of business cards? I am very much willing to pay for them myself.
[2009-09-01 21:45:34] <AndrewRT> mpeel - good point, something to remember for later
[2009-09-01 21:45:41] <skenmy> mpeel - good point.
[2009-09-01 21:45:44] <AndrewRT> skenmy - sure I'll get onto that straight away
[2009-09-01 21:45:52] <skenmy> much appreciated
[2009-09-01 21:45:59] <skenmy> and no problem if not possible
[2009-09-01 21:46:04] <skenmy> might come in handy, is all
[2009-09-01 21:46:54] <mpeel> skenmy: do you want anything from the rest of us aside from business cards wrt PLASA, or are you happy?
[2009-09-01 21:47:01] <skenmy> happy! :)
[2009-09-01 21:47:06] <AndrewRT> no other qs from me
[2009-09-01 21:47:16] <mpeel> thanks skenmy 
[2009-09-01 21:47:19] <mpeel> 5. Charity Commission application
[2009-09-01 21:47:25] <mpeel> http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Charity_Commission_application
[2009-09-01 21:47:27] <mpeel> AndrewRT?
[2009-09-01 21:47:31] <AndrewRT> right
[2009-09-01 21:47:50] <AndrewRT> we agreed previously that we'd try to get the charity application out in early september
[2009-09-01 21:47:56] <AndrewRT> and ideally approved tonight
[2009-09-01 21:48:01] <AndrewRT> and I think we're on track for that
[2009-09-01 21:48:07] <AndrewRT> there's three things left to do
[2009-09-01 21:48:14] <AndrewRT> a) Agree a conflicts of interest policy
[2009-09-01 21:48:26] <AndrewRT> b) Agree the wording of section D
[2009-09-01 21:48:37] <AndrewRT> and c) Agree the child protection policy
[2009-09-01 21:48:45] <AndrewRT> so if we can start with (a)
[2009-09-01 21:48:54] <AndrewRT> it's at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Conflicts_of_interest_policy
[2009-09-01 21:48:57] <AndrewRT> any comments?
[2009-09-01 21:48:58] <mpeel> there's also a brief (d) on section C
[2009-09-01 21:49:50] <mpeel> apologies from me - I planned on reading this carefully, but then forgot...
[2009-09-01 21:50:07] <AndrewRT> ok sure
[2009-09-01 21:50:16] <AndrewRT> could everyone have a quick read through now
[2009-09-01 21:50:29] <mpeel> it seems to be a mix of rules and guidelines
[2009-09-01 21:50:42] <mpeel> e.g. "Travel by private motor vehicle or bicycle will be reimbursed at the standard HMRC rates. Travel by train or aeroplane will be reimbursed for standard class only." is a rule
[2009-09-01 21:50:51] <mpeel> "Authorisers should only pay claims where they have been properly completed." is apparently a guideline
[2009-09-01 21:50:55] <mpeel> note the use of the word "should"
[2009-09-01 21:51:01] <AndrewRT> no I think they're all rules
[2009-09-01 21:51:12] <mpeel> "should" needs to be changed to "must", then...
[2009-09-01 21:51:17] <AndrewRT> sure
[2009-09-01 21:51:30] <mpeel> "If, for example, a partner organisation offers ..." is actually an example, not a rule.
[2009-09-01 21:51:31] <AndrewRT> changed
[2009-09-01 21:51:40] <AndrewRT> no it's an example
[2009-09-01 21:51:51] <mpeel> there's also a "shodul"
[2009-09-01 21:51:55] <mpeel> "When considering whether to submit or authorise an expense payment, due regard shodul be paid to the Charity Commission guidance "CC11 - Trustee expenses and payments""
[2009-09-01 21:52:23] <AndrewRT> changed
[2009-09-01 21:53:00] <mpeel> there's about a dozen more "should"s...
[2009-09-01 21:53:04] <cfp> seems good, but i'm struggling to stay awake here due to missed sleep on the journey and unwisely timed naps, so i'm not really in a state to provide more detailed feedback
[2009-09-01 21:53:27] <AndrewRT> mpeel - shall i change all shoulds to must then?
[2009-09-01 21:53:33] <AndrewRT> thanks cfp
[2009-09-01 21:53:44] <AndrewRT> I suggest we approve this this evening
[2009-09-01 21:53:54] <AndrewRT> and reconsider any amendments at the next meeting
[2009-09-01 21:54:08] <AndrewRT> so we can get the application in the post ASAP
[2009-09-01 21:54:13] <mpeel> AndrewRT: just to check, how easy is it to make an amendment?
[2009-09-01 21:54:24] <AndrewRT> remember - we're not actually sending the CC this policy, just saying we have one
[2009-09-01 21:54:32] <AndrewRT> mpeel - dead easy, just a board decision
[2009-09-01 21:55:13] <AndrewRT> zeyi any comments?
[2009-09-01 21:55:15] <AndrewRT> skenmy?
[2009-09-01 21:55:20] <mpeel> AndrewRT: should -> must in all cases seems appropriate
[2009-09-01 21:55:21] <skenmy> no comments from me
[2009-09-01 21:55:31] <AndrewRT> you're happy to approve then as is?
[2009-09-01 21:55:32] <skenmy> I am happy to approve with the amendements proposed by mike
[2009-09-01 21:55:37] <AndrewRT> cheers
[2009-09-01 21:55:47] <mpeel> AndrewRT: yes
[2009-09-01 21:56:13] <cfp> me too
[2009-09-01 21:56:16] <AndrewRT> zeyi?
[2009-09-01 21:56:30] <zeyi> yes
[2009-09-01 21:56:43] <AndrewRT> are you ok to approve as is, zeyi?
[2009-09-01 21:57:04] <zeyi> yes, seems fine as it looks like
[2009-09-01 21:57:57] <mpeel> AndrewRT: any objections to renaming the page "Conflict of Interest policy"?
[2009-09-01 21:58:13] <AndrewRT> nope
[2009-09-01 21:58:16] <AndrewRT> go ahead
[2009-09-01 21:58:37] <mpeel> moved
[2009-09-01 21:58:43] <mpeel> ok, are we moving on?
[2009-09-01 21:58:47] <AndrewRT> yes please
[2009-09-01 21:58:55] <AndrewRT> so that policy is approved then
[2009-09-01 21:59:01] <AndrewRT> moving on to section D
[2009-09-01 21:59:24] <AndrewRT> http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Charity_Commission_application#D_Vulnerable_people
[2009-09-01 21:59:28] <AndrewRT> I've written this up
[2009-09-01 21:59:35] <AndrewRT> is everyone happy with the wording?
[2009-09-01 22:00:05] <AndrewRT> Particularly:
[2009-09-01 22:00:06] <skenmy> "No other projects work with vulnerable people" should read "No other projects are intended to work specifically with vulnerable people", I think
[2009-09-01 22:00:12] <AndrewRT> "None of our current activities require us to carry out CRB checks.
[2009-09-01 22:00:12] <AndrewRT> However, Wikimedia UK is currently setting up a new project that will involve working in educational establishments. Once this project has started, we will become a "childrens charity", which will require all trustees to be checked. No other projects work with vulnerable people.
[2009-09-01 22:00:12] <AndrewRT> We are currently obtaining CRB checks for all trustees and establishing our child protection policies and procedures to comply with our legislation. Our new project will not commence until all these controls have been completed."
[2009-09-01 22:00:33] <mpeel> "we will become a" to "we believe that we will become a"?
[2009-09-01 22:00:52] <AndrewRT> yes good point - I suppose we might have a disabled person turn up to our Workplace Lunches!
[2009-09-01 22:01:13] <mpeel> "to comply with our legislation" - is that "the appropriate legislation", or do we have our own?
[2009-09-01 22:01:54] <AndrewRT> made both changes
[2009-09-01 22:02:20] <AndrewRT> any other qs on this section?
[2009-09-01 22:02:27] <AndrewRT> zeyi? cfp?
[2009-09-01 22:03:25] <mpeel> Do we want a comment in D3 at all, or are we OK with just saying NA?
[2009-09-01 22:03:39] <cfp> i'm happy andrew, thanks for all your work on this.
[2009-09-01 22:03:44] <zeyi> good to me when changed mpeel suggest
[2009-09-01 22:03:54] <AndrewRT> we're fine to say just N/A - it's clearer if you read the actual form and guidance notes
[2009-09-01 22:04:03] <AndrewRT> not designed for a wiki!
[2009-09-01 22:04:03] <mpeel> I'm happy then.
[2009-09-01 22:04:06] <AndrewRT> thanks cfp
[2009-09-01 22:04:14] <AndrewRT> ok that's approved as well then
[2009-09-01 22:04:25] <AndrewRT> onto the third and most difficult bit
[2009-09-01 22:04:50] <AndrewRT> http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Child_Protection_Policy
[2009-09-01 22:05:00] <AndrewRT> it's actually in the wrong place - sorry about that
[2009-09-01 22:05:03] <AndrewRT> I'll change the link
[2009-09-01 22:05:16] <mpeel> http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Child_protection_policy also exists
[2009-09-01 22:05:35] <AndrewRT> yes that was a holding page
[2009-09-01 22:05:44] <AndrewRT> I'll tidy up the wiki later
[2009-09-01 22:06:13] <AndrewRT> Seddon has drafted this based on the examples we had and a few discussions we had
[2009-09-01 22:06:23] <AndrewRT> I think there's a few issues I'd like to discuss in more detail
[2009-09-01 22:06:39] <mpeel> "Only members of Wikimedia UK are permitted to volunteer to work with children" - needs something appending to it.
[2009-09-01 22:07:04] <AndrewRT> but for tonight, If we're happy in general with it, could we approve it as is and then consider in detail at the next meeting?
[2009-09-01 22:07:08] <AndrewRT> mpeel - yes indeed!
[2009-09-01 22:07:09] <mpeel> "as a Wikimedia UK volunteer" possibly
[2009-09-01 22:07:20] <AndrewRT> yes - care to change?
[2009-09-01 22:07:43] <mpeel> done
[2009-09-01 22:07:47] <AndrewRT> thx
[2009-09-01 22:08:30] <AndrewRT> this policy actually puts the chair at the apex of complaints - are you ok with that mpeel?
[2009-09-01 22:08:51] <mpeel> that's OK by me - seems sensible
[2009-09-01 22:09:01] <skenmy> should I be named as Volunteers Director?
[2009-09-01 22:09:08] <skenmy> seems like it fits in with the role...
[2009-09-01 22:09:22] <AndrewRT> hmm that's a point
[2009-09-01 22:09:44] <AndrewRT> you're the project leader already, so we need someone else for Schools
[2009-09-01 22:10:02] <AndrewRT> but potentially for other projects it might make sense
[2009-09-01 22:10:03] <mpeel> a path of project leader -> volunteers director -> board -> chair seems appropriate
[2009-09-01 22:10:30] <AndrewRT> i'd proposed event leader --> project leader --> chair
[2009-09-01 22:10:44] <AndrewRT> where event leader is the person i/c of that particular school visit
[2009-09-01 22:11:02] <AndrewRT> project leader is skenmy and chair is mpeel
[2009-09-01 22:11:06] <skenmy> should we be placing so much onus on our volunteers?
[2009-09-01 22:11:29] <mpeel> AndrewRT: I was meaning more generally. Event leader makes sense as the first contact, though.
[2009-09-01 22:11:30] <AndrewRT> how could we reduce the burdon skenmy?
[2009-09-01 22:11:53] <skenmy> god forbid anything should ever come up, but in the event it does, do we really want our volunteer event leader being the point of contact for a potential criminal investigation?
[2009-09-01 22:11:56] <AndrewRT> mpeel: board is inappropriate - needs to be a person
[2009-09-01 22:12:02] <mpeel> skenmy: we're all volunteers!
[2009-09-01 22:12:16] <skenmy> yes but we know what we're in for ;)
[2009-09-01 22:12:17] <mpeel> AndrewRT: by "board" I was meaning "a board member"
[2009-09-01 22:12:26] <AndrewRT> skenmy - I think we need to have a person there on the ground we can report things to immediately
[2009-09-01 22:12:33] <skenmy> sure
[2009-09-01 22:12:45] <skenmy> i think this section needs to be clearly defined
[2009-09-01 22:12:47] <AndrewRT> easy solution - you just need to go to every event yourself ;)
[2009-09-01 22:12:51] <skenmy> with a procedure for complaint
[2009-09-01 22:12:58] <skenmy> lol andrew
[2009-09-01 22:13:26] <skenmy> initial report made to event leader, notifies project leader who becomes point of contact who liases with voldir - passed upwards if necessary
[2009-09-01 22:13:29] <skenmy> or something like that
[2009-09-01 22:13:34] <AndrewRT> skenmy - does that prevent it being adopted tonight?
[2009-09-01 22:13:39] <skenmy> absolutely not
[2009-09-01 22:13:42] <AndrewRT> or could you draft something now?
[2009-09-01 22:13:44] <skenmy> i'm nitpicking
[2009-09-01 22:13:53] <skenmy> Child Protection is a nasty, nasty business
[2009-09-01 22:14:04] <AndrewRT> or are you ok to adopt as is with a more detailed discussion next time and via email?
[2009-09-01 22:14:12] <skenmy> I am happy to adopt as is.
[2009-09-01 22:14:34] <AndrewRT> thanks
[2009-09-01 22:14:35] <skenmy> What's important is that there is a procedure there - we can amend it as necessary in the future
[2009-09-01 22:14:39] <AndrewRT> mpeel?
[2009-09-01 22:14:57] <AndrewRT> and as with teh other policy, we're not sending it to the CC, we're just saying we've got one!
[2009-09-01 22:15:34] <skenmy> yup!
[2009-09-01 22:15:49] <AndrewRT> mpeel, zeyi, cfp any other comments?
[2009-09-01 22:15:53] <mpeel> I'm broadly happy, although I would prefer more time to read through them.
[2009-09-01 22:16:09] <mpeel> AndrewRT: could you clarify, which pages are we approving?
[2009-09-01 22:16:16] <AndrewRT> mpeel - if we have a more detailed discussion next time and on email would that be ok
[2009-09-01 22:16:21] <mpeel> just http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Child_Protection_Policy or some of the other pages?
[2009-09-01 22:16:35] <AndrewRT> just http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Child_Protection_Policy
[2009-09-01 22:16:45] <AndrewRT> i think - we can come to the others later
[2009-09-01 22:17:02] <mpeel> I'm happy with that, then.
[2009-09-01 22:17:33] <AndrewRT> zeyi, cfp any other comments?
[2009-09-01 22:18:29] <zeyi> just read it, ok for me so far
[2009-09-01 22:18:36] <zeyi> will read it carefully
[2009-09-01 22:18:43] <cfp> no sorry, i'm barely awake. i trust you two
[2009-09-01 22:18:46] <AndrewRT> thanks - I know there's lots to get through!
[2009-09-01 22:18:55] * skenmy feeds cfp coffee
[2009-09-01 22:19:14] <AndrewRT> zeyi - do you want more time?
[2009-09-01 22:19:38] <zeyi> nop, go ahead
[2009-09-01 22:19:43] <AndrewRT> thanks
[2009-09-01 22:19:49] <AndrewRT> ok that's that approved then
[2009-09-01 22:19:55] <AndrewRT> finally section C http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Charity_Commission_application#C_Assessing_the_organisation.E2.80.99s_public_benefit
[2009-09-01 22:20:06] <AndrewRT> mpeel - you had a few changes to that?
[2009-09-01 22:20:27] <mpeel> AndrewRT: yes, let me find the diff
[2009-09-01 22:20:39] <mpeel> http://uk.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Charity_Commission_application&diff=5439&oldid=5102
[2009-09-01 22:20:48] <mpeel> minor alteration, as I agreed to make a while back
[2009-09-01 22:20:52] <AndrewRT> Looks good
[2009-09-01 22:20:56] <mpeel> AndrewRT: are you happy appending the appropriate pages?
[2009-09-01 22:21:01] <AndrewRT> yep sure
[2009-09-01 22:21:27] <AndrewRT> right, assuming everyone is happy that means the full application has now been approved!
[2009-09-01 22:21:31] <AndrewRT> *fanfare
[2009-09-01 22:21:35] <skenmy> happy here!
[2009-09-01 22:21:41] * mpeel goes into shock
[2009-09-01 22:21:42] <skenmy> POST IT
[2009-09-01 22:21:47] <skenmy> QUICK
[2009-09-01 22:21:47] <AndrewRT> action me to send it off i presume
[2009-09-01 22:21:50] <skenmy> BEFORE SOMEONE OBJECTS
[2009-09-01 22:21:59] <AndrewRT> indeed!
[2009-09-01 22:22:04] <cfp> this sentence is a bit odd
[2009-09-01 22:22:04] <cfp> Such content is also verifiable via references contained within it and also the interlinking of it to related material, such that it has educational merit and value.
[2009-09-01 22:22:14] <AndrewRT> mpeel?
[2009-09-01 22:22:29] <mpeel> hmm; too many such's
[2009-09-01 22:22:37] <mpeel> AndrewRT: you weren't quick enough posting it. ;-)
[2009-09-01 22:22:38] <AndrewRT> I presume this is a reference to the CC guidance 
[2009-09-01 22:22:57] <cfp> the "and also" bit is odd too.
[2009-09-01 22:23:05] <AndrewRT> they specifically referred to wikis being ok as long as facts were verifiable or something like that
[2009-09-01 22:23:24] <AndrewRT> mpeel/cfp woulc you suggest a rewording?
[2009-09-01 22:23:25] <cfp> otherwise no objections
[2009-09-01 22:23:43] * mpeel is rewording
[2009-09-01 22:24:22] <mpeel> "This information is also verifiable via accompanying references and also the interlinking of appropriate phrases to related material. As such, it has educational merit and value."
[2009-09-01 22:24:32] <AndrewRT> verifiable --> verified?
[2009-09-01 22:24:46] <mpeel> no; it's potentially verifiable
[2009-09-01 22:24:50] <cfp> Such content is made verifiable both by the refences it contains and its links to related material.
[2009-09-01 22:24:55] <cfp> second sentence as in mpeel's
[2009-09-01 22:25:13] <cfp> sorry: Such content is made verifiable both by the refences it contains and by its links to related material.
[2009-09-01 22:25:25] <mpeel> refences?
[2009-09-01 22:25:37] <mpeel> " Such content is made verifiable both by the references it contains and by its links to related material."
[2009-09-01 22:25:59] <cfp> andrew?
[2009-09-01 22:26:00] <AndrewRT> have u made the chage mpeel?
[2009-09-01 22:26:09] <AndrewRT> I'm fine with that
[2009-09-01 22:26:53] <mpeel> "Such content is made verifiable both by the references it contains and by its links to related material. These links also structure the content so that it can be explored in a logical way. As such, it has educational merit and value."
[2009-09-01 22:27:13] <zeyi> I go with mpeel's
[2009-09-01 22:27:15] <AndrewRT> great - have you made the change?
[2009-09-01 22:27:26] <cfp> looks good
[2009-09-01 22:27:46] <mpeel> done - http://uk.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Charity_Commission_application&diff=5580&oldid=5577
[2009-09-01 22:28:03] <AndrewRT> thanks
[2009-09-01 22:28:07] <AndrewRT> so all approved
[2009-09-01 22:28:15] <AndrewRT> two final actions coming out of this
[2009-09-01 22:28:19] <AndrewRT> a) conflict of interest
[2009-09-01 22:28:31] * skenmy sounds the two minute alarm
[2009-09-01 22:28:44] <AndrewRT> I'll contacting each board member re the register of interests
[2009-09-01 22:28:46] <mpeel> skenmy: we'll be running over by about 10 minutes, if that's OK?
[2009-09-01 22:28:53] <mpeel> (my estimate of how long AOB will take)
[2009-09-01 22:29:00] <AndrewRT> and b) child protection
[2009-09-01 22:29:07] <skenmy> sounds fine to me!
[2009-09-01 22:29:10] <AndrewRT> mpeel - will you apply for the CRB checks for directors?
[2009-09-01 22:29:42] <mpeel> AndrewRT: I can, if there's a budget for the expenses
[2009-09-01 22:29:45] <AndrewRT> "the Chair and Project Leader have personal responsibility for ensuring that these checks are carried out before the activity starts."
[2009-09-01 22:30:00] * skenmy gets his prodding stick
[2009-09-01 22:30:00] <AndrewRT> ah - do we have to wait until WMF has given the go ahead for reallocation?
[2009-09-01 22:30:20] <mpeel> either that, or spend some of the WMUK money on it.
[2009-09-01 22:30:25] <cfp> i really doubt they'll object.
[2009-09-01 22:30:31] <AndrewRT> cfp - how much free funds do we have atm?
[2009-09-01 22:31:23] <mpeel> I can't do anything before Sunday; if we ask the WMF in the next few days then the issue might be moot.
[2009-09-01 22:31:28] <AndrewRT> ok, action mpeel once WMF have got back to us then
[2009-09-01 22:31:39] <AndrewRT> i think that's all on this - onto AOB mpeel?
[2009-09-01 22:31:54] <mpeel> ok, thanks AndrewRT for all of your work on the CC application
[2009-09-01 22:32:00] <AndrewRT> cheers mpeel
[2009-09-01 22:32:00] <cfp> not a lot. it's a little bit confused by the fact we've budgeted for wmf giving us £5 grand but they in fact gave less
[2009-09-01 22:32:02] <mpeel> & to everyone else that worked on it
[2009-09-01 22:32:20] <AndrewRT> yes good point cfp - we have to pro-rate down all those amounts
[2009-09-01 22:32:22] <skenmy> ...
[2009-09-01 22:32:47] <mpeel> cfp: I assume that we're modifying the project budgets, rather than making up the shortfall from other funds?
[2009-09-01 22:32:58] <AndrewRT> skenmy - we applied for $ not £
[2009-09-01 22:33:10] <skenmy> right
[2009-09-01 22:33:14] <AndrewRT> the exchange rate wasn't as good so £5k is actually less than we originally thought
[2009-09-01 22:33:22] <skenmy> was that not a slight oversight?
[2009-09-01 22:33:28] <AndrewRT> sorry, should have mentioned that before
[2009-09-01 22:33:31] <cfp> yeah that would be the sensible option
[2009-09-01 22:33:49] <AndrewRT> well we did actually put in a higher bid than the then exchange rate 
[2009-09-01 22:33:57] <zeyi> skenmy-good point, if we got money in the right time...
[2009-09-01 22:34:08] <AndrewRT> but it moved mheavily against £ in the intervening 3 months
[2009-09-01 22:34:50] <AndrewRT> mpeel - do you want me to mentioned my AOB?
[2009-09-01 22:35:11] <mpeel> AndrewRT: yes, please
[2009-09-01 22:35:14] <mpeel> sorry, got distracted
[2009-09-01 22:35:15] <AndrewRT> OTRS system - confidentiality & risks
[2009-09-01 22:35:26] <AndrewRT> I was a bit alarmed by an email that mpeel sent around
[2009-09-01 22:35:33] <AndrewRT> but I'm not more comfortable
[2009-09-01 22:35:51] <AndrewRT> basicly an OTRS admin answered one of our WMUK emails and signed it WMUK
[2009-09-01 22:36:02] <AndrewRT> there are two issues:
[2009-09-01 22:36:20] <mpeel> Apparently that was a mistake - he didn't mean to reply to a WMUK email, and doesn't normally reply to chapter emails
[2009-09-01 22:36:22] <AndrewRT> a) we're an independent organisation with interests that are occasionally at odds with the foundation
[2009-09-01 22:36:28] <mpeel> he just didn't notice that it was a WMUK email.
[2009-09-01 22:36:38] <AndrewRT> yes seddon mentioned that to me
[2009-09-01 22:37:02] <AndrewRT> on (a), we might not want potentially confidential emails being read by non-WMUK people
[2009-09-01 22:37:21] <AndrewRT> and b) if people are replying in our name, they are potentially exposing us to liabilities
[2009-09-01 22:37:31] <skenmy> quite frankly i'm pretty peeved at this
[2009-09-01 22:37:54] <skenmy> If the user in question is an OTRS Admin, he should be taking more care over what he does within the software
[2009-09-01 22:37:57] <zeyi> I have the same worring after reading that email
[2009-09-01 22:37:58] <AndrewRT> my question is - should we move back to a simple reforwarding service - i.e. get all info@wikimedia.org.uk emails forwarded to either chair or secetary
[2009-09-01 22:38:02] <skenmy> I appreciate pobody's nerfect
[2009-09-01 22:38:06] <mpeel> One option is that we could set up our own OTRS system.
[2009-09-01 22:38:11] <skenmy> we could indeed
[2009-09-01 22:38:22] <AndrewRT> own OTRS system sounds like a lot of work
[2009-09-01 22:38:27] <skenmy> disagree :)
[2009-09-01 22:38:34] <cfp> do we actually gain that much from otrs?
[2009-09-01 22:38:34] <mpeel> it should be a standard package, so fairly easy to set up
[2009-09-01 22:38:37] <AndrewRT> i might be wrong!
[2009-09-01 22:38:43] <skenmy> could use OTRS or RT
[2009-09-01 22:38:44] <mpeel> I'd be willing to investigate + install it next week
[2009-09-01 22:38:47] <mpeel> skenmy: RT?
[2009-09-01 22:38:48] <skenmy> same meat, different gravy
[2009-09-01 22:38:49] <AndrewRT> who at the moment actually replies to OTRS emails?
[2009-09-01 22:38:51] <cfp> from playing with it myself it seemed considerably less efficient than email.
[2009-09-01 22:38:57] <mpeel> AndrewRT: me and Seddon
[2009-09-01 22:39:01] <skenmy> RT is another piece of software like OTRS. freenode use it for their ticket system.
[2009-09-01 22:39:20] <AndrewRT> I found it a lot of hassle to get in and use
[2009-09-01 22:39:24] <mpeel> skenmy: http://bestpractical.com/rt/ ?
[2009-09-01 22:39:33] <skenmy> thats the one! :)
[2009-09-01 22:39:34] <AndrewRT> and because it's not in your inobx, there's no prompt to go in and reply
[2009-09-01 22:40:09] <mpeel> kibble: AndrewRT, you can get it to send you e-mails when there's a new ticket 
[2009-09-01 22:40:17] <AndrewRT> yes that does solve one problem
[2009-09-01 22:40:19] <skenmy> This is true.
[2009-09-01 22:41:07] <AndrewRT> you're the one dealing with it mostly mpeel, what do you think - is OTRS worth it?
[2009-09-01 22:41:11] <cfp> what about an imap email account with a password we share
[2009-09-01 22:41:15] <cfp> e.g. gmail.
[2009-09-01 22:41:18] <skenmy> gah
[2009-09-01 22:41:22] <skenmy> Not a nice plan, cfp
[2009-09-01 22:41:28] <mpeel> AndrewRT: I think it's a lot better than emails in terms of archiving
[2009-09-01 22:41:36] <AndrewRT> yes that's true
[2009-09-01 22:41:51] <skenmy> ticketing systems have many benefits over an email account
[2009-09-01 22:41:57] <AndrewRT> particularly when board members change
[2009-09-01 22:42:15] <skenmy> there are trails of communication, locking of tickets, automated emails, etc et
[2009-09-01 22:42:17] <skenmy> c
[2009-09-01 22:42:21] <mpeel> There are things I don't like about it - e.g. if you respond to a ticket, then it's yours and no-one can easily see it again
[2009-09-01 22:42:29] <skenmy> mpeel - not quite
[2009-09-01 22:42:43] <AndrewRT> so what should we do?
[2009-09-01 22:42:44] <mpeel> skenmy: the only way I've found around that is to search for a whole queue
[2009-09-01 22:42:45] <skenmy> Just don't "lock" the ticket.
[2009-09-01 22:42:57] <mpeel> it seems to auto-lock them whenever you reply to an email.
[2009-09-01 22:43:02] <skenmy> unlock it, it goes back into the queue
[2009-09-01 22:43:06] <mpeel> perhaps that's a configuration thing, though
[2009-09-01 22:43:14] <skenmy> I'm only guessing at this stage - but I would anticipate that's a config thing
[2009-09-01 22:43:21] <skenmy> if not, it should be simple enough to hack
[2009-09-01 22:43:28] <AndrewRT> so what should we do?
[2009-09-01 22:43:29] <mpeel> shall I investigate, and potentially set up an installation of it?
[2009-09-01 22:43:42] <skenmy> i support our own OTRS system
[2009-09-01 22:43:44] <mpeel> I'll use a test address, and make sure that it all works
[2009-09-01 22:43:46] <AndrewRT> that sounds like a good idea
[2009-09-01 22:43:48] <skenmy> at least for a trial
[2009-09-01 22:43:56] <AndrewRT> thanks mpeel, if no one objects I'll action you 
[2009-09-01 22:44:14] <zeyi> thanks mpeel, ok for me.
[2009-09-01 22:44:15] <mpeel> there's the question of whether we can export the messages so far from the WMF's OTRS system. skenmy, any ideas?
[2009-09-01 22:44:25] <skenmy> you'd need to chat to the OTRS admins
[2009-09-01 22:44:30] <AndrewRT> shall we cross that bridge later?
[2009-09-01 22:44:31] <skenmy> I doubt it, but it might be possible.
[2009-09-01 22:44:36] <mpeel> ok, thanks
[2009-09-01 22:44:42] <AndrewRT> any other AOB?
[2009-09-01 22:44:43] <mpeel> any other business?
[2009-09-01 22:44:56] <skenmy> none here
[2009-09-01 22:44:57] <AndrewRT> not from me
[2009-09-01 22:45:06] <AndrewRT> thanks all for coming then
[2009-09-01 22:45:07] <mpeel> oh, comScore
[2009-09-01 22:45:10] <AndrewRT> ah
[2009-09-01 22:45:24] <AndrewRT> yes that was an interesting email
[2009-09-01 22:45:26] <mpeel> just a quick one to point out that I've been in contact with Sue about these, to see if we can get access to the information
[2009-09-01 22:45:47] <mpeel> the interesting fact to come out of it was that the "penetration" in the UK is actually fairly high, compared to e.g. the US.
[2009-09-01 22:45:48] <AndrewRT> UK has greater use of wp than US
[2009-09-01 22:45:55] <mpeel> Not quite as high as FR or DE, but close
[2009-09-01 22:46:09] <mpeel> 28-37% penetration
[2009-09-01 22:46:26] <AndrewRT> thats as % of internet users no?
[2009-09-01 22:46:35] <mpeel> I think so, yes
[2009-09-01 22:46:52] <mpeel> it has lots of caveats.
[2009-09-01 22:46:57] <AndrewRT> was there anything to do on this?
[2009-09-01 22:47:01] <mpeel> is everyone happy with me continuing to pursue access to the statistics, if possible?
[2009-09-01 22:47:09] <AndrewRT> definitely yes pls
[2009-09-01 22:47:21] <AndrewRT> could come in useful later when dealing with media e.g.
[2009-09-01 22:47:34] <AndrewRT> I have one more AOB
[2009-09-01 22:47:44] <AndrewRT> Newsletter
[2009-09-01 22:47:49] <AndrewRT> is due out before next meeting
[2009-09-01 22:48:00] <skenmy> develop, develop, develop!
[2009-09-01 22:48:04] <AndrewRT> skenmy - you ok to coordinate or would you prefer mpeel?
[2009-09-01 22:48:05] <mpeel> http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Newsletter/September2009
[2009-09-01 22:48:14] <skenmy> I'm okay :)
[2009-09-01 22:48:16] <mpeel> you have a fairly full press coverage section already. ;-)
[2009-09-01 22:48:26] <mpeel> there's also information that you can get from the blog posts
[2009-09-01 22:48:28] <skenmy> will need initiatives sectuions written
[2009-09-01 22:48:43] <skenmy> andrew - if you could do the "charity status update" part
[2009-09-01 22:48:49] <AndrewRT> action skenmy then - do you want to email/ring people to chase
[2009-09-01 22:48:55] <skenmy> shall do
[2009-09-01 22:48:57] <AndrewRT> yep I'll do charity section
[2009-09-01 22:49:40] <mpeel> anything else with this?
[2009-09-01 22:49:52] <AndrewRT> nope
[2009-09-01 22:49:54] <mpeel> date of next meeting - 15 September, 8.30pm?
[2009-09-01 22:50:00] <skenmy> fine here!
[2009-09-01 22:50:07] <AndrewRT> deadline for newsletter is 13th btw
[2009-09-01 22:50:11] <zeyi> none here
[2009-09-01 22:50:30] <mpeel> I'll be in london on the 13th, so won't be able to circulate the newsletter on-wiki until the 14th
[2009-09-01 22:50:46] <AndrewRT> ok thats fine
[2009-09-01 22:50:52] <AndrewRT> 15 Sep is fine for me
[2009-09-01 22:51:11] <mpeel> ok, thanks all for coming!
[2009-09-01 22:51:12] <mpeel> <end>

#wikimedia-uk

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[2009-09-01 21:25:28] <Jarry1250> Hurray, that'll be me I think :)
[2009-09-01 21:46:30] <Jarry1250> Maybe make applying for membership easier?
[2009-09-01 21:46:42] <AndrewRT> yes good idea
[2009-09-01 21:46:46] <skenmy> Jarry1250, i'd love to hear your views on that point
[2009-09-01 21:46:50] <AndrewRT> what did you think of the process?
[2009-09-01 21:47:07] <Jarry1250> Erm, I was a bit surprised I had to write a cheque for £6
[2009-09-01 21:47:26] <Jarry1250> Can it not be done online?
[2009-09-01 21:47:43] <skenmy> PayPal is accepted
[2009-09-01 21:47:50] <skenmy> perhaps this is not widely advertised enough?
[2009-09-01 21:48:57] <Jarry1250> The form suggests three options (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/uk/thumb/6/6f/Wiki_UK_Ltd_membership_application_form.pdf/page1-424px-Wiki_UK_Ltd_membership_application_form.pdf.jpg)
[2009-09-01 21:49:27] <Jarry1250> cheque, standing order, direct bank transfer
[2009-09-01 21:49:46] <Jarry1250> presumably, an entirely online applications process would be possible
[2009-09-01 21:52:38] <AndrewRT> yes - been proposed before, some chapters do it
[2009-09-01 21:52:58] <AndrewRT> i think it's worth considering again
[2009-09-01 21:53:42] <skenmy> definately possible to develop something there
[2009-09-01 21:55:03] <Jarry1250> [21:45]	<mpeel>	...as would the ability to easily join when donating in the winter fundraiser
[2009-09-01 21:55:39] <Jarry1250> Probably too short notice, unless other chapters have easily copyable setups
[2009-09-01 21:56:02] <AndrewRT> I think Mike was thikiing of a simple check box - tick if you want to join WMUk at the same time
[2009-09-01 21:56:05] <skenmy> PayPal give us all the information we require for a membership
[2009-09-01 21:56:09] <skenmy> so it's just a paypal button
[2009-09-01 21:56:39] <Jarry1250> Could be problematic
[2009-09-01 21:56:50] <mpeel> there's the question of whether we should avoid making the membership application process too easy - as it's then easy to start having non-entities or sockpuppet members
[2009-09-01 21:57:06] <Jarry1250> agreed
[2009-09-01 21:57:18] <AndrewRT> that's what was raised before as an issue - as we get bigger, the risks get less with this
[2009-09-01 21:57:29] <Jarry1250> donating != joining
[2009-09-01 21:57:30] <skenmy> Does that detrimentally affect the chapter in any way?
[2009-09-01 21:57:38] <AndrewRT> all membership applications would still go to the board for approval
[2009-09-01 21:58:03] <AndrewRT> skenmy - yes, if we had 50 members signing up who then voted in their slate to the board and took it in a different direction
[2009-09-01 21:58:13] <skenmy> That's a very good point
[2009-09-01 21:58:21] <Jarry1250> Remember cases where potential member != person paying
[2009-09-01 21:58:36] <Jarry1250> For the paypal thing I meant
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[2009-09-01 22:39:53] <kibble> AndrewRT, you can get it to send you e-mails when there's a new ticket :-)
[2009-09-01 22:40:05] <AndrewRT> ah interesting
[2009-09-01 22:40:35] <AndrewRT> thanks
[2009-09-01 22:40:50] <kibble> https://ticket.wikimedia.org/otrs/index.pl?Action=AgentPreferences => select "wm-uk" as a favorite queue, then set "Send me a notification if there is a new ticket in "My Queues"." to yes
[2009-09-01 22:48:52] <Jarry1250> Incidentally, before I head off, I believe you cashed my cheque before approving me as a member - oh, the kerfuffle if you had said no! (Just something to bear in mind regards paying online and so forth.)
[2009-09-01 22:49:19] <AndrewRT> really?
[2009-09-01 22:49:36] <AndrewRT> might have been a mistake
[2009-09-01 22:49:40] <AndrewRT> sorry bout that
[2009-09-01 22:50:02] <Jarry1250> I believe so, just thought I'd mention it
[2009-09-01 22:50:19] <AndrewRT> thanks - I'll follow up
[2009-09-01 22:51:01] <Jarry1250> Okay, I'm off, see y'all
[2009-09-01 22:51:08] <AndrewRT> cheers Jarry
[2009-09-01 22:51:18] <AndrewRT> hope to see you again & you know where we are!
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[2009-09-01 23:39:54] <mpeel> Draft press release is now online - http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Press_releases/Wikimedia_Commons_5_million_files
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