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[20:33] • skenmy rings the meeting bell
[20:33] AndrewRT: hi
[20:34] AndrewRT: Seddon spoke to me this afternoon - asked me to pass on his apologies
[20:34] AndrewRT: for being late
[20:34] • skenmy nods
[20:35] AndrewRT: mpeel is talking technical!
[20:35] skenmy: Can we get started?
[20:35] mpeel: ah - sorry
[20:35] AndrewRT: is cfp here>
[20:36] AndrewRT: ?
[20:36] skenmy: I'm struggling to stay awake as it is 
[20:36] mpeel: zeyi was around before...
[20:36] AndrewRT: hi paul
[20:36] skenmy: hey Andrew
[20:36] cfp: i'm here andrew
[20:36] AndrewRT: hi
[20:36] AndrewRT: shall we start mpeel?
[20:36] skenmy: zeyi was here but pinged out
[20:37] mpeel: one sec
[20:37] geniice joined the chat room.
[20:37] mpeel: ok, let's start
[20:37] mpeel: agenda is at
[20:38] mpeel: # Apologies for Absence - as above
[20:38] mpeel: 2. Minutes of Meeting dated 2009-09-01 - approval & actions
[20:38] zeyi joined the chat room.
[20:38] mpeel: hi zeyi - we're just starting
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[20:38] AndrewRT: as above? Seddon
[20:38] AndrewRT: anyone heard from steve?
[20:38] zeyi was granted voice by ChanServ.
[20:39] mpeel: ah yes
[20:39] mpeel: he said that he was coming on the agenda page
[20:39] mpeel: he also left a report a short while ago
[20:39] AndrewRT: ok no probs
[20:39] AndrewRT: shall we start mins?
[20:40] mpeel: AndrewRT: my phone is dying, could you phone him quickly to see whether he's able to connect?
[20:40] stevev joined the chat room.
[20:40] AndrewRT: sure
[20:40] AndrewRT: ah perfect timing!
[20:40] AndrewRT: hi steve
[20:40] stevev was granted voice by ChanServ.
[20:40] stevev: hi
[20:40] mpeel: g'evening steve
[20:40] stevev: Report just gone up
[20:41] AndrewRT: we're just starting the minutes
[20:41] stevev: sorry late
[20:41] mpeel: ok, so, apologies for absence is Seddon who will arrive later
[20:41] AndrewRT:    
[20:41] mpeel: 2. # Minutes of Meeting dated 2009-09-01 - approval & actions - link as per AndrewRT
[20:41] AndrewRT: I've happy with the mins
[20:41] skenmy: happy here 
[20:41] cfp: me too
[20:41] AndrewRT: any qs/comments?
[20:42] mpeel: just changed the status of one of my actions
[20:42] AndrewRT: so i c!
[20:42] AndrewRT: otherwise happy?
[20:42] mpeel: yup
[20:42] stevev: ok
[20:42] zeyi: yes
[20:43] AndrewRT: shall i move to actions?
[20:43] mpeel: AndrewRT: please
[20:43] AndrewRT: k
[20:43] AndrewRT: first point - there seem to be lots of actions outstanding
[20:43] AndrewRT: but dont worry this is
[20:43] AndrewRT: because everyone's been busy with other things
[20:43] AndrewRT: conferences, charity application  etc etc
[20:44] AndrewRT: I've talked to nearly everyone about actions and tried to prioritise the urgent ones
[20:44] AndrewRT: moving on
[20:44] AndrewRT: first item 1. AT will look into where we could produce branded merchandise.  Doing...
[20:44] AndrewRT: you may have seen the email on the mailing list
[20:44] AndrewRT: do you want to discuss this today or at next meeting?
[20:44] mpeel: AndrewRT: I've listed it under AOB
[20:44] mpeel: shall we discuss later if there's time?
[20:45] AndrewRT: k - lets deal with then
[20:45] AndrewRT: 4. JS to get a copy of the WMF's press release contact list in the UK.
[20:45] mpeel: I actually asked Jay about this when doing the commons press release
[20:45] AndrewRT: spoke to seddon earlier - he's tried contacting different people but not able to get anything
[20:45] AndrewRT: so has asked to drop this action
[20:45] AndrewRT: ah any luck?
[20:45] mpeel: as far as I can tell, there isn't a list sorted by geography
[20:45] mpeel: we're best off creating one ourselves
[20:45] skenmy: Did you guys get the email I sent in?
[20:46] stevev: I sent one to you Mike
[20:46] mpeel: which is a work in progress at
[20:46] skenmy: Lots and lots of contacts in there 
[20:46] AndrewRT: yes - thanks skenmy - could do with adding to the wiki if poss
[20:46] mpeel: skenmy: and stevev - could you add appropriate ones to the wiki, please?
[20:46] skenmy: if I get some time I will try
[20:46] AndrewRT: stevev - the wiki one is essentially the earlier list you sent round a few months ago
[20:47] AndrewRT: thanks skenmy - just upload the file if you want, no need to wikify and make pretty
[20:47] stevev: OK
[20:47] mpeel: it would be good to have a list broken down by geographical area, I guess, for if we're doing local or national work
[20:47] mpeel: either that, or by theme/topic
[20:47] mpeel: e.g. technology, business, etc.
[20:47] AndrewRT: mpeel - yes agree
[20:48] AndrewRT: moving on
[20:48] AndrewRT: 11. SV will chase Steve Bowbrick to get an update on how his meeting with some senior BBC managers to discuss collaboration went.  Done  Discuss
[20:48] AndrewRT: am i right o mark this as don stevev?
[20:48] stevev: Not going well (see corporate report)
[20:48] AndrewRT: (based on previous conv)
[20:48] AndrewRT: but you did talk to him?
[20:48] stevev: Chased but every time I speak to him things alter a little
[20:48] mpeel: stevev: I talked to a couple of people from the BBC last week, which might interlink with this
[20:48] stevev: And they get pushed backwards
[20:48] AndrewRT: ok, shall we pick up with steve's report?
[20:48] stevev: I'd suggested working 'around' Bowbrick
[20:49] stevev:    
[20:49] AndrewRT: > Now that all section had been completed and all required policies adopted, the application is now ready to send. AT agreed to submit it to the Charity Commission.
[20:49] AndrewRT: I've sent it in!
[20:50] mpeel: AndrewRT: all, including the declarations?
[20:50] AndrewRT: stevev - have you posted me your declaraton?
[20:50] AndrewRT: mpeel - just waiting for stevev and seddon now
[20:50] stevev: I have not - sorry - it is in this room will fix now
[20:50] AndrewRT: cheers
[20:50] AndrewRT: charity commission wont even look at our application until the declarations are in
[20:51] AndrewRT: so please could you do asap
[20:51] AndrewRT: finally:
[20:51] AndrewRT: > The September newsletter is due out on 13th September. AT agreed to draft a section on the charity application; PW will contact others to get sections written as needed. MP will distribute on wiki on 14th.
[20:51] AndrewRT: this seems to have slipped - PW/MP you still ok to finalise?
[20:51] AndrewRT: could anyone else help with this?
[20:52] mpeel: I'll work on it tomorrow evening
[20:52] mpeel: and can distribute it then too
[20:52] AndrewRT: thanks mpeel
[20:52] mpeel: I've been too busy with other things lately, I'm afraid...
[20:52] AndrewRT: that's all the actions I wanted to birng up -
[20:52] AndrewRT: are there any other items others want to raise?
[20:53] mpeel: none here that aren't in the reports / agenda
[20:53] skenmy: one question
[20:53] skenmy: where were these dates for the newsletter agreed?
[20:53] AndrewRT: at the last board meeting
[20:53] skenmy: I must have missed that one
[20:54] AndrewRT: we previously said we would try to make each newsletter 7 days earlier than the previous
[20:54] AndrewRT: until we were at teh start of the month
[20:54] skenmy: Yes but I don't think there was ever an action for it?
[20:54] AndrewRT: were you away?
[20:54] skenmy: I am more of a fan of doing it at the END of the month
[20:54] mpeel: I thought we agreed to have it at the start of the month?
[20:54] mpeel: so that it didn't appear to be instantly outdated?
[20:55] AndrewRT: sending an "April" nesletter on 1st May doesn't give as good an impression as sending it on 1st April
[20:55] mpeel: I think that goes back to some of our earsiest meetings...
[20:55] skenmy: I remember the discussion
[20:55] skenmy: Yes but the April newsletter will then be full of March things
[20:55] skenmy: which isn't what I percieve as a newsletter
[20:56] mpeel: is it better going for the middle of the month instead, as we have been doing anyway recently?
[20:56] skenmy: But i'm sure this is probably better suited to the mailing list - we don't need a Board Action
[20:56] mpeel: ok - shall we move on to the reports?
[20:56] AndrewRT: sure
[20:56] AndrewRT:    
[20:56] AndrewRT: not much from me
[20:56] mpeel: 4.1 Secretary (AT) -
[20:57] AndrewRT: most of my stuff is covered in the actions
[20:57] AndrewRT: I asked if anyone was around on the date but no one was
[20:57] mpeel: it's a bit of an awkward date - as I recall, it's a wednesday?
[20:57] AndrewRT:    
[20:58] mpeel: have you tried asking the people that normally go to the wikimeets in london?
[20:58] AndrewRT: yeah that's right - Weds 23rd
[20:58] AndrewRT: yep - noone cn make it
[20:58] mpeel: pity
[20:58] cary joined the chat room.
[20:58] mpeel: I'm not sure there's much we can do about that?
[20:59] AndrewRT: nope, just asking in case someone was around - I'll reply to say sorry we cant meet, hopefully next time!
[20:59] mpeel: anything else?
[20:59] AndrewRT: any qs on my report?
[20:59] skenmy: Nothing here
[21:00] mpeel: 4.2 Treasurer (cfp) -
[21:00] cfp: have updated the accounts as you can see. only thing missing is a £6 paypal donation we had recently which i forgot to put on. incompatible encoding
[21:00] cfp: questions?
[21:00] Colds7ream left the chat room. (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[21:00] Camaron-Chris left the chat room.
[21:00] skenmy: It hurts my eyes 
[21:00] stevev left the chat room. ("Page closed")
[21:01] mpeel: the formatting could be better - I couldn't understand it, I'm afraid
[21:01] skenmy: Obviously not designed for wiki 
[21:01] steve_ joined the chat room.
[21:01] cfp: maybe my monitor is bigger than average
[21:01] cfp: that's how gnucash spits it out.
[21:01] AndrewRT: ok if u change text size
[21:01] steve_: sorry vanished for a moment
[21:01] Colds7ream joined the chat room.
[21:02] AndrewRT: thanks looks good
[21:02] AndrewRT: any more membership applications?
[21:02] cfp: no
[21:02] mpeel: there's a few too many columns to display well, sadly
[21:02] cfp: ahh it all fits without side scroll bars on my screen.
[21:03] mpeel: cfp: is there a bottom line?
[21:03] • mpeel looks to the end, sees "£0.00", gets worried 
[21:03] cfp: unrestricted funds are 305.37 liabilities are £201.30 incompatible encoding
[21:03] cfp: they're the most important figures
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[21:04] AndrewRT: ah thanks £100 free funds then
[21:04] mpeel: those numbers are rather close to each other for my liking... 
[21:04] AndrewRT: have you had my claim for teh AGM?
[21:05] mpeel: I gave it to cfp on friday
[21:05] mpeel: I think there was a claim of his that you were supposed to be printing and sending to me?
[21:05] cfp: i got your form from mike. i used the emailed stuff in the accounts though. i presume nothing's changed. i seem to remember asking you to print out mine too though andrew and they don't seem to make it
[21:05] cfp: but it's not the end of the world if we're meeting in august
[21:05] AndrewRT: ah sorry - missed that bit
[21:05] AndrewRT: _october_ 
[21:06] mpeel: cfp: you're going backwards in time now? 
[21:06] cfp: yes that. going crazy from too much maths apparently.
[21:06] mpeel: ok - anything else for cfp?
[21:06] AndrewRT: not from me
[21:06] skenmy: Nothing here!
[21:07] mpeel: 4.3 Chair (MP) - report at
[21:07] mpeel: lots on there...
[21:07] mpeel: two things to discuss
[21:07] AndrewRT: thanks mpeel
[21:07] mpeel: first is National Portrait Gallery
[21:08] mpeel: I sent an email around to the board summarizing my interactions with them - is everyone happy for me to pursue the discussions with them?
[21:08] effeietsanders joined the chat room.
[21:08] steve_: yes
[21:08] skenmy: Happy here!
[21:09] AndrewRT: do you want to summarise teh email brielfly for the benefit of our supporters?
[21:10] mpeel: basically, they were introduced to me during lunch at the pictures in public meeting, after which we had a productive discussion
[21:10] mpeel: focusing on where we go from here, rather than how we got here
[21:10] AndrewRT: I'm happy for you to continue these discussions, but please continue to keep WMF informed
[21:11] mpeel: the discussions were with the archives/website side of things, rather than marketting, which should really help in terms of having productive discussions
[21:12] cfp: ultimately no amount of high-level discussion is any use unless the whole community agrees with the outcome
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[21:12] mpeel: cfp: very true
[21:12] AndrewRT: yes, we need to keep the community onside
[21:12] AndrewRT: we = WMUK and we = WMF&WMUK
[21:13] mpeel: there were also a number of other productive conversations at the meeting, which I'll be following through in the next few days
[21:13] mpeel: the other thing I wanted to discuss was the blog
[21:13] mpeel: where there's been an increasing amount of spam
[21:13] mpeel: any objections to installing Akismet?
[21:13] mpeel:    
[21:13] mpeel: (it's "a spam-fighting service")
[21:13] skenmy: No opposition here
[21:14] skenmy: Does this really need discussing? Akismet is almost a standard thing on *any* WP blog.
[21:14] steve_: I use it on my blog so no from me
[21:14] AndrewRT: go ahead if yu think it'll be good
[21:14] mpeel: I just wanted to check this
[21:14] mpeel: ok, that's the discussion items
[21:14] mpeel: any questions, or shall we move on?
[21:14] skenmy: None here!
[21:15] zeyi: fine here
[21:15] AndrewRT: nope fine
[21:16] mpeel: ok, 4.4 Initiatives (zeyi) -
[21:17] AndrewRT: thanks for the report zeyi
[21:17] AndrewRT: did you manage to ring round the project leaders?
[21:17] steve_: Zeyi - BBC Lunches 'report' in the corporate report section
[21:17] zeyi: i called them last week
[21:18] zeyi: not this, but didn't manage to call steve
[21:18] AndrewRT: thanks
[21:18] zeyi: steve-yes, just saw that
[21:18] mpeel: zeyi: you said "two museums" in the report, as far as I'm aware there's only one at the moment?
[21:18] AndrewRT: V&A and the public transport museum?
[21:19] mpeel: V&A's confirmed
[21:19] AndrewRT: sorry no, it was the post office one
[21:19] steve_: suggest we take up other routes around SB that Mike Peel suggests if we want BBC collaboration to speed up
[21:19] mpeel: post office is not yet confirmed
[21:19] mpeel: I haven't talked to the public transport museum yet
[21:19] AndrewRT: didn't they ask to take part?
[21:19] zeyi: oh, I thought the same
[21:20] mpeel: they expressed interest; I don't think they've said for definite that they'll be involved yet.
[21:20] AndrewRT: it sounded pretty definite to me - are you following it up with them to confirm?
[21:20] zeyi: Mpeel-sorry, I thought it set up as well
[21:21] mpeel: I will be in the next few days
[21:21] AndrewRT: ok, that's great
[21:21] AndrewRT: shall we deal with initiatives in the later part of the meeting?
[21:21] zeyi: mpeel-do you need my help to follow some museums you already started?
[21:22] mpeel: zeyi: not yet, but there may be some meetings in person in the future that it would be good to have someone else from wikimedia involved with
[21:23] zeyi: mpeel-I would like to go if can arrange the time, we can discuss it through email.
[21:23] mpeel: let's skip 4.5 conferences for now, until Seddon appears
[21:23] AndrewRT: ok
[21:23] mpeel: so 4.6 Corporate relations (steve_) -
[21:23] steve_ was granted voice by ChanServ.
[21:24] AndrewRT: stevev care to talk us through?
[21:24] steve_: Talking to Keene Public Affairs - there is interest in the Wikimedia Loves Art concept for at least three of their clients and they have invited someone from Wikimedia to go and see them this friday (me)
[21:25] AndrewRT: have you spoken to mpeel about this?
[21:25] steve_: St Helena Tourist Board is this week - they want to prepare a request for collaboration with Wikimedia
[21:25] mpeel: where are their clients based - in Great Britain, or on other islands?
[21:25] steve_: No I have not spoken
[21:26] steve_: their clients are global
[21:26] AndrewRT: mpeel - what do you think about having St Helena or Falklands involved in Britain Loves Wikipedia?
[21:26] steve_: I believe the other two are Falklands Islands Touris Board - which is another UK dominion I believe
[21:26] steve_: And the port of New York
[21:26] AndrewRT: New York USA?
[21:27] steve_: yes - but that is not in discussion right now
[21:27] mpeel: I'm not sure that they count as "Britain", but I'm sure that we could involve them if they're interested.
[21:27] steve_: Later on the track
[21:27] mpeel: possibly under something like "Falklands Loves Wikipedia"
[21:27] AndrewRT: I suggest we don't involve New York
[21:27] steve_: agreed
[21:27] AndrewRT: as they're covered by WM-NYC and it's best keeping this as one chapter event for now
[21:27] mpeel: It would be best to refer the New York one to Pharos
[21:28] steve_: only immediate thing is St Helena Tourist Board
[21:28] AndrewRT: Falklands / St Helena wouldnt really fit in the original idea
[21:28] mpeel: there is a wikimedia user in St Helena, who we could ask if they'd be interested in helping out with this.
[21:28] AndrewRT: as you couldn't get a "cluster" of museums
[21:28] steve_: Not selected them out of choice - this was an opportunity that presented itself in discussion
[21:29] steve_: Perhaps we can go after Napoleon Bpnaparte archive material?
[21:29] AndrewRT: yes indeed!
[21:29] AndrewRT: mpeel - is it best doing this as a post-BLW follow up?
[21:29] AndrewRT: (or indeed pre-BLW warm up?)
[21:29] mpeel: possibly - I think that this can be discussed offline
[21:29] steve_: I thought 'shove under the banner of Loves Art' but bend the initiative and reshape it a little
[21:30] steve_: Not just pictures but all art
[21:30] AndrewRT: do you want to give stevev a ring later then?
[21:30] mpeel: not tonight.  But another day, yes, that would be good
[21:30] steve_: It depends on what the St Helena people tell me on Friday
[21:30] AndrewRT: stevev could you put your phone numbers on the wiki btw
[21:30] mpeel: steve_: I will be contactable by phone at any point on friday
[21:30] AndrewRT: I can never find your number to call you - i think I've got an old one
[21:31] steve_: what I need now is some kind of Board support or direction
[21:31] AndrewRT:    
[21:31] mpeel: if it's useful to get my view on something, or for me to join in the conversation, please feel free to call me
[21:31] steve_: AndrewRT - you have
[21:31] steve_: I leave Dow Jones this friday so home numbers only
[21:31] AndrewRT: ah that explains why i haven't been able to get hold of you!
[21:32] AndrewRT: steve_ - my suggestion is you explain the kind of things we've done with Wikipedia Loves Art, say we've got at least one Wikipedian on the island and do they want to do similar?
[21:33] steve_: I was going along those lines
[21:33] mpeel: the other big possibility would be content donations - working online to improve the metadata, descriptions etc. about their works (or rather, photographs of their works)
[21:33] AndrewRT: if they have digitised images, they could donate and use this as a way of drumming up visitors to the island
[21:34] steve_: A joint press release announcing our support, and maybe allowing the PR agency to use our name to encourage local St Helena schools and individuals to join in was what I was thinking?
[21:35] steve_: I have suggested that in order to get our blessing - we need a hefty content donation (sorry if that sounds crude on IRC)
[21:35] AndrewRT: sorry, our support for what?
[21:35] steve_: for a Wikimedia Loves Art initiative
[21:35] mpeel: steve_: I don't think that there should be any sort of requirements like that before getting involved - it should be something that the museums want, rather than a requirement of doing an event...
[21:36] mpeel: we should really check with the WMF at some point about the official view from them about chapters and overseas territories
[21:36] mpeel: possibly by internal-l
[21:36] AndrewRT: no exactly, we're in no position to be making demands
[21:36] steve_: I will phrase it in that way of course
[21:36] cfp: and i'm not sure press releases to the british press make a lot of sense about an island with a population of under 5000....
[21:36] steve_: no demands only suggestions
[21:37] mpeel: steve_: as I said above, if I can be of any help during these discussions, I'm only a phone call away.
[21:37] steve_: OK Mike
[21:37] mpeel: shall we move on?
[21:37] steve_: another tricky one
[21:38] steve_: Talking to MD of Impact Wise - also MD of another company called Child Wise. He has a training project proposal in with Hackney Council to use Facebook as a social media tool to train socially deprived young people in useful and reusable skills.
[21:38] AndrewRT: a) Would we be interested in supporting him through training sessions on how to use Wikipedia?
[21:38] steve_: After talking to him about this he said he'd be interested in Wikimedia could get involved in the training aspect. Editing skills, writing skills and site/community idea creation would be a better way of training socially deprived kids than simply getting them to stick pictures on Facebook.
[21:38] AndrewRT: sounds like one for the Learning Lunches team??
[21:38] AndrewRT: although we would need CRB checks presumably??
[21:38] steve_: If this goes ahead 'yes'
[21:38] mpeel: sounds like something that it would be great to get involved with
[21:38] steve_: I agree
[21:38] mpeel: how much of it would be actually talking to kids?
[21:39] mpeel: and how much would be teaching teachers how to teach kids?
[21:39] steve_: I do not know the details and need to follow up I spoke to him at start of month in Oxford when we met
[21:39] steve_: This work was part of a bigger programme for his company
[21:40] steve_: He works with Hackney Council on many projects
[21:40] AndrewRT: it would be a lot easier if we were givgin them material and trainign the teachers rather than teh kids directly
[21:40] steve_: Childwise is also a massive market research firm that has access to young kids (do you know them Skenmy?)
[21:40] skenmy: Not aware of Childwise
[21:40] steve_: Their data is bought by BBC etc and used extensively
[21:41] AndrewRT: could you ask them that when you're next talking to them?
[21:41] steve_: They have access to interviews inside schools and we touched on Wikimedia training kids how to use wikpedia when we met
[21:42] steve_: Nothing decided - just exploring - your collective thoughts?
[21:42] mpeel: There's a lot of information sharing that we could take part in
[21:43] steve_: agree
[21:43] AndrewRT: my thoughts - best to do this as us traingin the teachers
[21:43] mpeel: either done via the initiatives (workplace lunches and schools projects), or done outside that
[21:43] steve_: and the socially deprived kids training appealed to me
[21:44] mpeel: do we have any local volunteers in that area that might be able to help?
[21:44] zeyi: May I ask the Childwise is for-profit company?
[21:44] steve_: do we have some finished presentation we could send this guy? (perhaps yours AndrewRT?)
[21:44] AndrewRT: skanmy - how does this link to the schools project?
[21:44] AndrewRT: sure stevev
[21:44] AndrewRT:    
[21:44] steve_: It is a commercial company but I made it very clear we are a charity
[21:44] skenmy: Not a clue how it links, to be honest
[21:44] AndrewRT: (top one)
[21:44] skenmy: First time i've heard of it
[21:45] steve_: ditto Skenmy
[21:45] AndrewRT: sorry, skenmy I meant could the schools project use this lead?
[21:45] zeyi: ok steve
[21:45] mpeel: Wikipedia doesn't have a "ChildWise" article; only three mentions in other articles.
[21:45] skenmy: If they are interested in supporting our goals I don't see why not 
[21:46] steve_: Can I explore further and report back?
[21:46] mpeel: please steve_
[21:46] AndrewRT: yes please
[21:46] zeyi: Thanks Steve
[21:47] AndrewRT: do you want to talk about the BBC?
[21:47] steve_: Not really
[21:47] steve_: Pain in the neck
[21:47] AndrewRT: can i ring u abotu it later?
[21:47] steve_: SB keeps changing his position and avoiding the 'next steps' issue every time I talk to him
[21:48] zeyi: That's fine, all we know you done a lot
[21:48] AndrewRT: well it's good to know that now rather than in six months time
[21:48] mpeel: steve_: I think you're right that we need to have additional lines of interaction with them.
[21:48] AndrewRT: did you get details of the BBC people that Seddon had contact with?
[21:48] steve_: I have tried everything I know to move this along - it will move - but not sure what year
[21:48] mpeel: there were various people at the pictures in public conference - some of those might be useful leads (I'll send you their names & positions)
[21:48] steve_: send me names and I will pursue
[21:49] AndrewRT: Stevev - I've got together an outline of a presentation for a "learning lunch"
[21:49] AndrewRT: which I'll send to you
[21:49] steve_: send me
[21:49] mpeel: there is one person who I talked to, who will be leading the interaction with the oil paintings work, who I'll hopefully be talking to in the future - I'm not sure how far outside of the oil paintings work that will extend, though.
[21:50] mpeel: anything else, steve, or shall we move on to the volunteers report?
[21:50] steve_: that was the main stuff except for one thing
[21:50] AndrewRT: skenmy - was this a technical conference?
[21:50] steve_: John Rainey
[21:51] AndrewRT: sorry, go ahead steve
[21:51] steve_: GenieDB - a company looking for a technology partnership
[21:51] steve_: Andrew RT suggested sending him on to Kul
[21:51] AndrewRT: ah yes - the email you sent round
[21:51] AndrewRT: indeed
[21:51] AndrewRT: everyone ok with that?
[21:52] skenmy: sounds fine to me
[21:52] zeyi: ok here
[21:52] steve_: I am also putting together a database of company contacts for myself
[21:52] mpeel: yes, sending it to the WMF makes sense
[21:52] mpeel: it might be worth adding "if there's anything we can do within the UK to help, please let us know".
[21:52] steve_: Wikimedia can piggyback off it thru my corporate hat in some way
[21:53] steve_: 'training' - how to be a good corporate netizen - that kind of thing
[21:53] AndrewRT: Steve_ - you ok to forward to kul then?
[21:53] cary is now known as cary-afk.
[21:53] steve_: yes - but let's add to call discussion
[21:54] AndrewRT: ok sure
[21:54] AndrewRT: I need your phone number tho - can you private message me it
[21:54] steve_: gone to you thru google mail account
[21:55] mpeel: Could it be put up on the contact list on the wiki at some point, please?
[21:55] steve_: yep
[21:55] AndrewRT: sure i'll do that
[21:55] mpeel: ok, 4.7 Volunteers report (PW) -
[21:55] mpeel: skenmy?
[21:55] skenmy: Very brief from me! Probably of most interest to Seddon and our Conferences teams - some interest in technical sponsorship of large conferences / events. Made a few contacts, distributed a few of my shiny new business cards!
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[21:56] AndrewRT: thanks skenmy
[21:56] mpeel: thanks skenmy - that's good news
[21:57] mpeel: 5. Travel funds / Seminar in Brighton
[21:57] Tango42_ joined the chat room.
[21:57] mpeel: AndrewRT: did you want to overview this, or shall I?
[21:57] AndrewRT: yeah i can if you want
[21:57] AndrewRT: there was an email to the list
[21:57] cary-afk is now known as cary.
[21:57] AndrewRT: about a seminar (?) that happening in Brighton
[21:58] AndrewRT: I suggest we use our budget for free cnotent conferences
[21:58] AndrewRT: the £500
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[21:58] Tango42_ is now known as Tango42.
[21:59] mpeel: I was thinking that it would be good to generally offer small amounts of funding for traveling to this sort of event, as per my email at
[21:59] AndrewRT: to fund somoene to travel there
[21:59] AndrewRT: Tango42 suggested that we just delegate this to the conferences director
[21:59] AndrewRT: (seddon)
[21:59] AndrewRT: I spoke to seddon this afternoon and he's happy to do this
[22:00] AndrewRT: i think this is a good idea - what do others think?
[22:00] mpeel: AndrewRT: the specific or general case?
[22:00] AndrewRT: both
[22:01] mpeel: I'm happy for Seddon to take the lead with this, although it would be good to communicate possibilites to the board prior to approval (especially to cfp I guess)
[22:01] cfp: both seem fine. though i think we should always try to find people as close as possible else that £500 could be gone after only two journeys incompatible encoding
[22:01] AndrewRT: yeah too true
[22:02] AndrewRT: for Brighton, we dont' have any volunteers so I guess that;s not possible but good to get in plcae for future anyway
[22:02] mpeel: depending on the event, it might be possible to use content [access/generation] travel funds, or even school project travel funds.
[22:02] mpeel: ... and hopefully in the longer term we'll have general funds available
[22:03] mpeel: is everyone happy with this?
[22:03] cfp: yeah
[22:03] skenmy: Happy here
[22:03] mpeel: steve_, zeyi?
[22:03] skenmy: Can we do 6.2 first, please? I will be leaving very shortly.
[22:03] zeyi: fine
[22:03] AndrewRT: ok, I'll ask seddon to do this then
[22:03] mpeel: ok, 6.3 - Schools Project (skenmy)
[22:04] mpeel: * 6.3 == 6.2
[22:04] steve_: ok
[22:04] skenmy: right
[22:04] AndrewRT: can I just clarify something for the minutes please
[22:05] AndrewRT: mpeel - can you summarise what you think we've just decided
[22:05] skenmy: sure
[22:05] mpeel: ok, one min...
[22:05] AndrewRT: mpeel???
[22:06] mpeel: Seddon is to be responsible for dealing with requests for travel funds to events - which will then be run past the board prior to approval
[22:06] AndrewRT: approval by whom?
[22:07] mpeel: good question. 
[22:07] AndrewRT: ok, seddon leads on it, emails round the board and then.....
[22:07] mpeel: I'd say Seddon, so long as the board doesn't object within a reasonable amount of time
[22:07] AndrewRT: he approves?
[22:07] AndrewRT: bit like blog posts?
[22:07] mpeel: yup - that's worked well so far
[22:07] AndrewRT: right - so we are delegating the budget to seddon?
[22:08] mpeel: reasonable amount of time == ~ 24 hours
[22:08] mpeel: I'm not sure it's completely delegating the budget
[22:08] mpeel: more a trend towards approval unless someone disapproves
[22:08] AndrewRT: do you want him to make the final decision, yes or no?
[22:09] mpeel: for simple cases, yes. For more complex/controversial/expensive cases, perhaps not
[22:09] mpeel: if it's < ~ £20, then no problem
[22:09] mpeel: if more than that, I'm less sure
[22:09] AndrewRT: sorry to dwell on this but we need a clear decision
[22:10] mpeel: AndrewRT: what's your viewpoint/interpretation?
[22:10] mpeel: (also everyone else...?)
[22:10] AndrewRT: my proposal is we delegate full control of the £500 budget to seddon, by all means using email consultation if neceassary
[22:10] zeyi: yes, I agree we have to set a limitation of money which can be approved by seddon
[22:11] cfp: as i see it, someone sending an email saying "i will take it as approval if no one says anything after 24 hours" is getting board approval, just as much as they would be if they asked explicitly
[22:11] skenmy: I would be more comfortable if the Board gave the proposals the once over. Nothing against Seddon at all - but the Board needs to oversee the activities of the chapter in this early stage]
[22:11] skenmy: cfp - I like that.
[22:11] mpeel: To be picky, the amount is £476.58 (I believe)
[22:11] AndrewRT: the board doesn't approve every expenses claim
[22:12] cfp: this board meeting is a perfect example of why we need to do a lot more in email...
[22:12] mpeel: yes...
[22:12] mpeel: shall we discuss this by email?
[22:13] cfp: haha. good idea.
[22:13] AndrewRT: you are joking i presume?
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[22:13] zeyi left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
[22:13] mpeel: I'm not sure. 
[22:14] mpeel: I think that this is a discussion which we need Seddon to be involved with
[22:14] mpeel: so let's deal with it by email
[22:14] AndrewRT: omg
[22:15] mpeel: AndrewRT: as you just pointed out in pm, we have ~ 18 minutes remaining. We have other things to discuss.
[22:15] AndrewRT: lets move on
[22:15] mpeel: Returning to schools project - skenmy?
[22:15] skenmy: I'm concerned about the lack of progress WRT the schools project - I do not have the time to nor the wish to develop all the materials and content myself, and yet I am struggling to actually see anyone who is willing to take this on. zeyi - could you help me out and try to drum up some activity?
[22:16] AndrewRT: yeah I understand
[22:16] zeyi_ was granted voice by ChanServ.
[22:16] mpeel: zeyi_?
[22:16] skenmy: The project needs other people to setp into "leader" roles
[22:16] zeyi_: yes, I would like to help
[22:16] skenmy: Not necessarily board members
[22:16] zeyi_: sorry, just get voice
[22:16] skenmy: Infact, better to not be board members
[22:16] skenmy: No need for voice here 
[22:17] • Tango42 points out this channel isn't moderated 
[22:17] AndrewRT: skenmy - could you drop an email to the schools list?
[22:17] skenmy: Sure
[22:17] AndrewRT: with what's involved and what needs doing?
[22:17] mpeel: Tango42: I don't think it needs to be.
[22:17] skenmy: Sure - it'll be lengthy!
[22:17] skenmy: I have to disappear - any questions for me in particular before I go?
[22:17] AndrewRT: mpeel - it should be
[22:17] zeyi_: Skenmy-we can discuss it, may i call you tomorrow?
[22:18] skenmy: zeyi - you can try! If I don't answer you can always email me
[22:18] mpeel: AndrewRT: my approach has been that I'll turn on moderation if we have problems - we haven't had any yet.
[22:18] AndrewRT: ok
[22:18] zeyi_: hehe, ok, skenmy
[22:18] AndrewRT: thanks skenmy
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[22:18] mpeel: thanks skenmy for coming
[22:18] skenmy: Sorry for having to dart off
[22:19] skenmy: action me to write email
[22:19] mpeel: skenmy: one quick question
[22:19] skenmy: night all
[22:19] skenmy: go on!
[22:19] mpeel: is the 10/11 october ok for you for an in person board meeting?
[22:19] skenmy: yes
[22:19] skenmy: dates are free
[22:19] mpeel: great, thanks
[22:19] mpeel: hope you have a good evening.
[22:19] zeyi_: thanks, skenmy, bye
[22:20] mpeel: ok, do we need to discuss 6.1 Workplace Learning Lunches, or have we already covered that sufficiently?
[22:20] steve_: I hope we have
[22:20] steve_: I have pursued it will continue to do so - but not holding my breath with excitement
[22:20] mpeel: 6.3 Britain Loves Wikipedia (MP) - not much to say beyond that the V&A's involved, and I'm working on getting more museums involved. I've had some communication with Husky about what could be improved from the NL Wiki Loves Art.
[22:21] mpeel: anything else on initiatives, or shall we move on to AOB?
[22:21] AndrewRT: sure
[22:21] zeyi_: ok
[22:21] mpeel: 7. AOB - 7.1 Merchandising
[22:21] mpeel: AndrewRT: do you want to quickly summarize where we're at with this?
[22:21] AndrewRT: sure
[22:22] AndrewRT: we have approval from the Foundation to use their logos
[22:22] AndrewRT: restrictions in summary:
[22:22] AndrewRT: a) must be sold to members only
[22:22] AndrewRT: or b) must be given away free as publicity
[22:22] AndrewRT: c) must include either WMUK name or logo
[22:22] AndrewRT: apart from that we can do what we like
[22:22] AndrewRT: I started an email discussion on the list
[22:23] steve_: Is that last comment ironic?
[22:23] AndrewRT: which threw up some good ideas
[22:23] AndrewRT: question now: what's the next step?
[22:23] AndrewRT: steve_? which one?
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[22:23] steve_: cannot do a) b) or c) 'apart from that we can do what we like'
[22:23] mpeel: to what extent must the merchandise display the WMUK name or logo? There was talk at one point about it having equal prominence to any other wikimedia trademark?
[22:23] AndrewRT: hehe i c!
[22:24] AndrewRT: yes - that's dropped
[22:24] mpeel: great
[22:24] AndrewRT: we can have a ting 1 pt text at the bottom if we want 
[22:24] AndrewRT: _tiny_
[22:24] mpeel: great. 
[22:24] mpeel: we probably don't want to go to that extreme, though. 
[22:24] mpeel: what benefits do we want to get out of merchandising?
[22:25] mpeel: my thoughts were: some general funds (~ 20% of the cost of the merchandise?), additional members (from being able to purchase the merchandise), and publicity
[22:26] • mpeel pokes
[22:27] AndrewRT: my own view is the main benefit is identity
[22:27] AndrewRT: i.e. making members/supporters feel part of Wikimedia movement
[22:27] AndrewRT: and hence more likely to join up, donate, get involved
[22:28] mpeel: cfp, steve_, zeyi_ - any views?
[22:28] cfp: t-shirt printing costs are pretty minimal, so we should be able to both sell them cheap and get some revenue from it
[22:28] effeietsanders left the chat room.
[22:28] cfp: i'd suggest we don't do any (b) unless we have a sponsor for it
[22:29] mpeel: btw - WMAU asked for (and got) a grant from the WMF to buy merchanidising - see
[22:30] mpeel: cfp: (b)?
[22:30] cfp: > or b) must be given away free as publicity
[22:30] mpeel: ah - given away as publicity
[22:30] mpeel: ok, are we going to get anywhere with this now?
[22:30] mpeel: can we action someone to start obtaining quotes?
[22:31] mpeel: or possibly looking into print-on-demand services?
[22:31] mpeel: AndrewRT perhaps?
[22:31] AndrewRT: I've alerady got that as an action
[22:31] mpeel: ah, ok. 
[22:31] AndrewRT: but I'd like to nkow where were going with this first
[22:32] mpeel: what specifically do you want to know?
[22:32] AndrewRT: well, i dont want to do loads of work if we never sell a single item
[22:32] AndrewRT: what are we going to sell, to whom, how advertised??
[22:33] mpeel: so we start small - possibly print on demand if that's suitable, possibly just doing one item at once to start with, and doing more on request
[22:33] cfp: t-shirts, to the members, via emails,
[22:33] mpeel: ditto cfp
[22:33] mpeel: also advertised on the wiki to encourage new members to join
[22:33] AndrewRT: ok, I'll start with just t shirts and ask on the list for orders
[22:33] AndrewRT: & do a wiki advert
[22:34] AndrewRT: I'll put some ideas round
[22:34] mpeel: thanks AndrewRT
[22:34] cfp: hey i've got to go, sorry. email me any other queries.
[22:34] cfp left the chat room.
[22:34] mpeel: two last things, then...
[22:34] mpeel: first: in person meeting
[22:34] mpeel: 10/11 October - can everyone make this?
[22:34] zeyi_: I go for t-shit idea, and we also can put ads on our blog
[22:34] steve_: weekend awaydays are bad for me
[22:35] mpeel: cfp can I believe, as can Skenmy.
[22:35] steve_: Weekdays are better now I am a man of lesiure
[22:35] steve_: leisure
[22:35] AndrewRT: cheers zeyi I'll do a post!
[22:35] mpeel: steve_: weekdays are typically bad for me, unless they're a friday or monday
[22:35] mpeel: I guess others have similar problems?
[22:35] AndrewRT: who's confirmed for 10th mpeel?
[22:36] mpeel: zeyi_: AndrewRT: having a short blog post / twitter post is a good plan
[22:36] mpeel: so far, me and skenmy, possibly cfp
[22:36] zeyi_: weekend is better for me as well.
[22:36] AndrewRT: I can as well
[22:36] mpeel: thanks AndrewRT
[22:36] zeyi_: mpeel, Andrew, I can also put the picture on facebook
[22:36] mpeel: zeyi_: is the 10th ok with you?
[22:36] AndrewRT: zeyi_ u ok for 10th?
[22:37] zeyi_: sure
[22:37] zeyi_: can't sure will be stay on 11th
[22:37] AndrewRT: take it thats a no from you steve_?
[22:38] zeyi_: mpeel, what's your plan, may i have a lift
[22:38] mpeel: zeyi_: I will probably travel down on the saturday morning, and return on the sunday evening
[22:38] mpeel: most likely staying at a youth hostel somewhere overnight
[22:39] mpeel: that may be extended to the day before or after, depending on whether I can arrange a meeting with a museum for one of those days
[22:39] AndrewRT: seddon?
[22:39] mpeel: I don't think I've heard anything from seddon
[22:39] mpeel: steve_: can you definitely not do the 10th october?
[22:39] AndrewRT: so mpeel, andrewrt, zeyi_ yes
[22:40] AndrewRT: skenmy, cfp maybe
[22:40] AndrewRT: stvev_ no?
[22:40] AndrewRT: who have i missed?
[22:40] mpeel: seddon
[22:40] steve_: as I am transitioning from Dow Jones I really am not sure what i can and cannot do
[22:41] steve_: EG I might have a consultancy contract in Bulgaria 8 days a month
[22:41] AndrewRT: ok, if we dont have four confirmed we should can it
[22:41] steve_: don't know when yet
[22:41] AndrewRT: no point spending all thsat money for a inority of the board
[22:41] mpeel: skenmy was yes
[22:41] mpeel: cfp I think was yes
[22:41] mpeel: but need to double-check
[22:41] mpeel: that's 5/6
[22:42] mpeel: seddon I'll ask about
[22:42] mpeel: I think that's sufficient to go ahead
[22:42] mpeel: I agree that if it's less than 4 (i.e. a majority), then it wouldn't be worth doing
[22:42] mpeel: I'll organize further by email, and we'll see where we go (please respond to the email!)
[22:42] AndrewRT: can you get definites from skenmy/cfp and let us know the outcome?
[22:42] mpeel: ok, will do
[22:43] AndrewRT: mpeel - try ringing!
[22:43] mpeel: AndrewRT: I will
[22:43] mpeel: the last thing on the agenda is the fundraising drive
[22:43] mpeel: which we really need to start planning out, in terms of what WMUK will have to do (and what we want to do)
[22:43] AndrewRT: forst thing is agreeing the contract
[22:44] AndrewRT: i sent an email about this
[22:44] AndrewRT: any comments?
[22:44] mpeel: AndrewRT: when was that?
[22:44] AndrewRT: after the last meeting
[22:44] steve_: contract?
[22:45] AndrewRT: Fundraisign Agreement with the Wikimedia Foundation
[22:45] steve_: ok
[22:45] mpeel: AndrewRT: I can't find it
[22:46] AndrewRT: oh sorry, its sat in my draft file!
[22:46] mpeel: that possibly explains the lack of comments on it. 
[22:46] AndrewRT: ooops
[22:46] AndrewRT: I'll send it out - quite long I'm afriad but please reply!
[22:47] mpeel: we need to agree to the contract, but we also need to think about the donation system (the donation request page; receiving donations; etc.), and publicity surrounding the event
[22:47] AndrewRT: should we do publicity?
[22:47] mpeel: why shouldn't we do publicity?
[22:48] mpeel: by publicity, I'm thinking blog post, twitter posts, etc.
[22:48] AndrewRT: why should we?
[22:48] mpeel: also possibly a press release
[22:48] mpeel: because by doing publicity, we publicise the fundraiser
[22:48] AndrewRT: why? teh Foundation will be doing loads of publicity anyway
[22:48] mpeel: and hence hopefully get more donations in
[22:48] mpeel: why should we bother participating in the fundraiser, then?
[22:48] mpeel: what benefits do we bring?
[22:48] AndrewRT: to get some money?
[22:49] AndrewRT: Foundation aren't asking us to do publicity
[22:49] mpeel: why shouldn't it all just go via the WMF?
[22:49] AndrewRT: they're doing it to support teh chapters
[22:49] mpeel: Foundation aren't asking us to do a lot of things that we do anyway
[22:49] steve_: we have a good press list - let's use it
[22:49] AndrewRT: I think we've got loads we have got to do so lets focus on that first
[22:50] AndrewRT: i.e. the list of activities we'll spend the money on, handling the money, doing teh contract
[22:50] mpeel: those too.
[22:51] mpeel: how do we want to develop the plans?
[22:51] mpeel: do we want a wiki page?
[22:51] AndrewRT: personally i think wait a bit till we'vve got the contract agreed - that should be our first priority now
[22:52] mpeel: I'm not sure that there's anything we can do proactive there
[22:52] mpeel: and I'm also a little worried that by the time the contract is agreed, it will be too late
[22:52] mpeel: (i.e. end of october)
[22:52] mpeel: ok, I guess we should wrap things up now - given that we're about 20 minutes over time.
[22:52] mpeel: so, date and content of next meeting
[22:53] mpeel: 29th September?
[22:53] mpeel: Non-initiatives?
[22:53] AndrewRT: sounds good to me
[22:53] steve_: ok
[22:53] AndrewRT: can we speak about inits briefly during zeyi's report?
[22:54] mpeel: yes, of course
[22:54] mpeel: zeyi_?
[22:54] mpeel: is the 29th september ok with you?
[22:54] steve_: ok
[22:55] mpeel: ok, thanks all for coming. <end>
[22:56] zeyi_: ok


[20:36] Tango42: Before the meeting starts, can I make a public request that the winter fundraising drive preparations be added to the agenda?
[20:36] geniice: Colds7ream nice one. that the G9 would not have been able to do. Too noisy
[20:36] Tango42: I know Seddon wants to discuss it, but he isn't here yet
[20:36] AndrewRT: it's already on next meeting's agenda
[20:36] mpeel: Tango42: remember the wiki thing? 
[20:36] skenmy: This is an Initiatives meeting
[20:36] Colds7ream:                          
[20:36] Tango42: I don't like to edit board pages
[20:37] Tango42: You can't have initiatives without fundraising
[20:37] Tango42: it doesn't need much discussion at this stage
[20:37] Majorly_ is now known as Majorly.
[20:37] AndrewRT: indeed
[20:37] RC_Reporting: New edit: [[Meetings/2009-09-15/Agenda]] * * + fundraising under AOB
[20:37] AndrewRT: what do you think needs discussing at this stage Tango?
[20:37] Jarry1250_ joined the chat room.
[20:37] Tango42: but if we don't get started soon, we won't be prepared
[20:38] AndrewRT: we had a brief discussion last board meeting and we've had some discussion on email
[20:38] AndrewRT: but I appreciate not in public
[20:38] Topic changed to "Discussion of Wikimedia UK - | Bot missing? or wait | Board meeting in progress in #wikimedia-uk-board  | This channel is logged during WMUK board meetings" by Jarry1250.
[20:38] Tango42: We need to put together some kind of structure for the planning, otherwise it won't happen
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[20:38] Jarry1250_ is now known as Jarry1250.
[20:39] Tango42: I suggest a fundraising officer (a board member if anyone has the time for it, I'll volunteer if not), and then a small group to handle tech and a small group to handle media
[20:40] mpeel: meeting is starting in #wikimedia-uk-board btw
[20:41] RC_Reporting: New edit: [[Meetings/2009-09-01]] * * /* Minutes of previous meetings */ change action c/f -> doing
[20:48] Colds7ream: WRTt merchandise, I'd like to see it done (apart from anything else I can avoid the $-based Cafepress site), but it does seem a bit of a faff...
[20:51] mpeel: merchandise would be good for bringing in some funds (I'm not convinced about the cost price thing), as well as publicity + bringing in members
[20:51] mpeel: ... by some funds, I mean that if a T-shirt costs £7, we should be asking for £10 (prices picked out of air)
[20:52] Colds7ream: Travelling billboards sort of thing? 
[20:52] mpeel: Colds7ream: exactly. 
[20:53] mpeel: they're great for wearing to general (non-Wikimedia specific) meetings, in terms of recognizability.
[20:54] Jarry1250: and recognisability.
[20:54] mpeel: that too. 
[20:54] Majorly_cold left the chat room. (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[20:54] Colds7ream: Ah, please don;t get me started on en-GB/en-US. Bad memories from [[International Space Station]]...
[20:55] Jarry1250: Oh, that reminds me, my posts to the mailing list are still marked as "non-member" and have to be moderated
[20:55] mpeel: Jarry1250: are you subscribed at the right email address?
[20:55] AndrewRT: yes indeed Jarry1250 - I have to find your mail from all the spam to approve!
[20:55] Jarry1250: 99% sure yes
[20:55] AndrewRT: you need to subscribe using the identical same address
[20:56] AndrewRT: nope - youre coming up as "mail from nonmember"
[20:56] Jarry1250: I'm pretty sure I have
[20:58] cary joined the chat room.
[20:58] AndrewRT: anyone around London on Wednesday 23rd?
[20:58] AndrewRT: (next Weds?)
[20:58] Colds7ream: Nope.
[20:58] Jarry1250: Andrew: What address are they listed as coming from?
[20:59] cary: strategy meeting in 5 minutes
[20:59] cary:        #wikimedia-strategy    
[20:59] cary: poor planning
[20:59] skenmy: We're already in a meeting 
[20:59] skenmy: kvit the spam
[20:59] mpeel: cary: there's a more important meeting happening here. 
[20:59] Tango42: Our meetings and the planning meetings always clash
[20:59] cary: mpeel, I'm aware
[20:59] Tango42: we scheduled our meetings first...
[21:00] Tango42: I'll lurk in -strategy, at least
[21:00] domas joined the chat room.
[21:00] domas: Hi!
[21:00] domas: I'm from Lithuania
[21:00] domas: but that means I can come to UK at any time
[21:00] domas: AND STAY
[21:00] cary: Wrong UK
[21:00] Colds7ream left the chat room. (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[21:00] domas: oh
[21:00] domas: damn
[21:00] PeterSymonds joined the chat room.
[21:00] Camaron-Chris left the chat room.
[21:00] cary: you want #wikimedia-ua
[21:00] Majorly_ joined the chat room.
[21:01] domas: I'd need visa for -UA
[21:01] Colds7ream joined the chat room.
[21:02] Majorly left the chat room. (Nick collision from services.)
[21:02] Majorly_ is now known as Majorly.
[21:02] AndrewRT: loads of lithuanians round here domas - ur welcome to come any time! 
[21:06] Tango42: mpeel: It is the closeness of those numbers which makes me think we need to take full advantage of the upcoming fundraiser
[21:06] mpeel: Tango42: yes
[21:08] geniice: is there a reason we feel the need to go anywhere near the NPG?
[21:09] mpeel: They sought me out at the meeting last week
[21:09] AndrewRT: yeah - they've got loads of great photographs which have been digitised
[21:09] mpeel: we had a productive discussion
[21:09] mpeel: it would be good to continue those discussions
[21:09] AndrewRT: and they might release to Wikimedia Commons
[21:09] geniice: eh
[21:09] AndrewRT: -photographs- paintings
[21:10] geniice: I don't like talking to people who throw around lawsuits
[21:10] Tango42: make sure you liaise closely with Mike Godwin about the NPG
[21:10] Tango42: we don't want to mess up his negotiations
[21:10] mpeel: I'm in as much contact with him and the others in the negotiations from the wikimedia side as I can be...
[21:11] Tango42: and you are keeping him informed about what you have said to the NPG and what they have said?
[21:11] mpeel: yes - they were cc'd into my lengthy email to the board
[21:11] mpeel: they didn't reply, but that's another matter
[21:12] mpeel: the replies I did get from other people (involved, but not from the WMF) were positive
[21:12] Tango42: wait until you have heard from the WMF before doing anything else
[21:13] geniice:    
[21:13] Tango42: I'm not sure it was a good idea to talk to them at all. You should have politely removed yourself saying you couldn't talk to them until the legal dispute was resolved.
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[21:13] geniice: Tango42 WMF not technicaly involved
[21:13] Tango42: The WMF are handling the negotiations, though, I believe
[21:14] geniice: by that standard I'm invovled
[21:14] • cary knows absolutely nothing
[21:14] Tango42: they aren't a party to any potential lawsuit
[21:14] Tango42: but they are involved
[21:14] cary: of course, I don't negotiate with terrorists
[21:14] geniice: I do
[21:14] AndrewRT: Tango42 - mike contacted the WMF beforehand and they agreed in principle to mike talking to NPG
[21:15] mpeel: I talk to people where useful and productive conversations can be held - which includes with the NPG.
[21:15] AndrewRT: but you're right, of course, we need to do everything in close consultation with the Foundation
[21:15] geniice: mpeel hmm did they at any point mention zoomify
[21:15] mpeel: correction: I'm not in contact with Mike, it's Erik I've been talking to.
[21:15] mpeel: geniice: yes, they wanted to get that back online, but were nervous about doing so
[21:16] Tango42: ok, I didn't realise mike at legal clearance in advance - that's good.
[21:16] AndrewRT: mike = mpeel 
[21:16] mpeel: it's one of the things I wanted to talk to them further about - there's no problem with putting it online for copyrighted works (i.e. those that are newer than 1923/author died less than 70 years ago)
[21:17] mpeel: for older works, I suspect that the "damage" (if you can call it that) has already been done
[21:18] geniice: but to whom?
[21:18] geniice: The first legal threat came from David Urbanic
[21:18] geniice: CEO of zoomify
[21:18] mpeel: geniice: which legal threat?
[21:19] geniice: otrs 2009060110061897
[21:19] • cary facepalms
[21:20] mpeel: geniice: ... and for those of us that don't have access to OTRS?
[21:21] geniice: ask cary
[21:21] mpeel: cary...? 
[21:22] cary: "Photographs made my museums are copyrighted"
[21:22] cary: "No they're not"
[21:22] cary: or something like that
[21:22] cary: We actually need more English speakers on OTRS
[21:22] cary: admins
[21:22] Reedy: lol
[21:23] Colds7ream: Sounds like an entertaining exchange... I wonder how embarrassed they'll be when we finally win the day?
[21:23] Reedy: i applied before, and got turned down
[21:23] mpeel: hmm; that doesn't sound like a productive conversation...
[21:23] Tango42: i applied ages ago and was rejected
[21:23] skenmy: I would volunteer but I already do too much 
[21:23] geniice: cary no cary I want to know if I can pm the intial email to mpeel
[21:23] cary: Tango42, I'm sure the reasoning is that it would take away from your time on foundation-l
[21:24] cary: geniice, feel free.  I think you should PM your responses too
[21:24] Tango42: cary: It was a long time ago... possibly before I even subscribed to foundation-l...
[21:24] cary: Tango42, well, it was a different set of admins, I'm sure
[21:24] Tango42: i've been desysopped since, so I think my chances now are slim
[21:25] geniice: depends.
[21:26] cary: what did you do to get desysopped?
[21:26] Tango42: If RFA weren't such a nightmare I would stand again, but it has changed so much since I originally stood - would you believe I was promoted unanimously?
[21:26] Tango42: I blocked MONGO - big mistake!
[21:26] cary: ...
[21:27] Tango42: Is that stunned silence at the unanimous promotion or my block of MONGO?
[21:27] Tango42: I should say, promoted unanimously with about 1000 edits total.
[21:27] geniice: no idea
[21:27] cary: the desysop at the block of MONGO
[21:27] geniice: to be honest OTRS work is pretty dull. Even the copyright stuff gets repetative fast
[21:28] cary: yep
[21:29] Tango42: well, they dug out several of my decisions that a few people had complained about and cited a non-existent policy
[21:29] Tango42: I tried to appeal the non-existent policy bit after the ArbCom elections, but even the new arbcom didn't see a problem with it
[21:30] Colds7ream: Just to say, The Falklind Islands are DEFINITELY part of Britain - remember 1982 and all that? They get very offended if anyone suggests otherwise.
[21:30] Colds7ream: *Falkland
[21:31] cary: You mean Las Islas Malvenas?
[21:31] mpeel: Colds7ream: are they part of the island of Great Britain, though?
[21:31] Colds7ream: NO, I don't.
[21:31] Tango42: They aren't part of Great Britain, they are a British Overseas Territory or something
[21:32] Colds7ream: No, but then neither is Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands, the Shetlands, the Scilies or the Isle of Man.
[21:32] mpeel: ah - they're just off South America.
[21:32] cary: Argentina
[21:33] AndrewRT: the Channel Islands aren't no, but the Scillies are definitely part of the UK
[21:33] Tango42: Yes, very close to Argentina, hence the conflict with them
[21:33] Tango42: AndrewRT: We were talking about GB, not UK
[21:33] Tango42: different things
[21:33] mpeel: it's worth seeing whether they're interested in running an event, then possibly thinking about doing it as a joint event
[21:33] mpeel: with WMAR
[21:34] cary: St. Helena
[21:34] AndrewRT: yes, but we're WMUK!
[21:34] Tango42: The Falklands have nothing to do with Argentina - we won the war
[21:34] AndrewRT: highly unlikely Falkland Islands would want to get involved with WMAR
[21:34] cary: that was a war?
[21:34] Colds7ream: I'd highly recommend not involving WMAR.
[21:34] Jarry1250: TBH, that would probably end in disaster
[21:35] Tango42: I agree. The Falklands are ours, let's not even suggest otherwise or we might trigger another war...
[21:36] mpeel: Tango42: The Falklands are the Falklands. They can decide who they want to "belong" to... 
[21:36] cary: Indeed.  Colonials
[21:37] Jarry1250: And they decided to belong to the UK.
[21:37] Tango42: Yes, they definitely consider themselves British
[21:37] AndrewRT: yeah, mpeel they're actually quite a long way away from Buenas Aires though - unlikely to get many people popping over for the day to help out
[21:37] AndrewRT: especially as they speak a different language
[21:37] cary: Boy, do they
[21:37] Tango42: the dispute isn't over the people, it is over the land
[21:38] cary: and the sheep
[21:38] cary: there's still a dispute?
[21:38] Colds7ream: [[Falklands War]] "Decisive British military victory; status quo ante bellum." 
[21:38] AndrewRT: oh yes, cary
[21:39] Colds7ream: ...yes, there's still a dispute. The Argentine national constitution still claims them.
[21:39] cary: This is so much more interesting than either of those meetings
[21:39] Colds7ream:                          
[21:39] Tango42: Yes, Argentina never dropped their claim. Relations between the UK and Argentina have seen rather strained ever since
[21:39] AndrewRT: yeah doesn't the Irish constitution still claim N Ireland thou?
[21:40] Tango42: The British Monarch claimed to be King of France until fairly recently!
[21:40] Colds7ream: Not sure about that, the Republic was governed as a separate colony before it split, I believe.
[21:40] Jarry1250: Tango: 1801 methinks
[21:40] Colds7ream: The Irish Free State if I remember rightly.
[21:40] Colds7ream: Tango: Yes, the Act of Union.
[21:40] Tango42: What is now the RoI was part of the UK. It may have been a separate colony for a short time inbetween that
[21:41] cary: I've been to Ireland
[21:41] Tango42: I think the King of France claim was dropped more recently
[21:41] Colds7ream: Hence we were the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.
[21:41] Jarry1250: cary: Which bit and when?
[21:42] cary: Dublin, Galway, Limerick
[21:42] cary: last month
[21:42] Jarry1250: Fair enough
[21:42] AndrewRT: - isn't wp wonderful!
[21:43] Colds7ream:    
[21:43] Tango42: Oh, no, it was 1801, you are right!
[21:43] cary: I've been to Argentina too
[21:43] Jarry1250: Makes a nice change 
[21:44] Tango42: I've been to Ireland too - saw dolphins in the Shannon estuary.
[21:44] Tango42: Haven't been to Argentina because no-one would pay for me to go
[21:45] cary: I've only been to Heathrow Airport in the UK, however
[21:45] Tango42: did you go through immigration?
[21:45] cary: no
[21:45] Tango42: then you haven't been to the UK - I don't count airport visits unless you immigrate
[21:45] Colds7ream: Haven't technically been in the UK then. 
[21:45] cary: that's my point
[21:46] Colds7ream: It's international territory.
[21:46] Tango42: Well, no, it's UK territory
[21:46] Tango42: it is completely under UK jurisdiction
[21:46] Colds7ream: Oh yes, administered by the UK. But the 'UK border' isn;t until after passport control.
[21:46] mpeel: It's on Earth. /me doesn't care beyond that
[21:47] cary: Ireland was wet
[21:47] Tango42: bloody astronomers...
[21:47] AndrewRT: cary - yeah, England is too, but not quite so much 
[21:48] Jarry1250: Now, Manchester is wet.
[21:48] Colds7ream: Try RAF Lossiemouth. Now that's a wet place. 
[21:49] cary: I want to go back to Ireland.  Have to get some people to found a chapter there
[21:49] cary: Too many sheep on the list, not enough shepherds
[21:49] Jarry1250: But that's in /Scotland/ isn't it?
[21:49] mpeel: Try going swimming. Water is wet. 
[21:49] geniice: that has to be a problem unique in wikimedia history
[21:50] Jarry1250: Cary: Metaphorical or literal?
[21:50] cary: There are a lot of sheep in Ireland
[21:50] cary: surely some of them have internet access
[21:51] Tango42: I'll help with getting people to set up an Irish chapter, Cary. I just need airfare!
[21:51] AndrewRT: hopefully my radio interview helped drum up support!
[21:52] AndrewRT: i tried to get WMIE a mention, but didn't quite manage it
[21:52] Colds7ream: Jarry1250: Yep, it's Scotland. Was up there for a week this summer, and it didn't stop raining once.
[21:52] AndrewRT: Colds7ream - I spent a week there a few yrs ago - glorious sunshine whole time
[21:53] AndrewRT: plus midnight sun
[21:53] Colds7ream: Obviously picked a better time than me! 
[21:53] cary is now known as cary-afk.
[21:53] AndrewRT: yeah just lucky
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[21:57] cary-afk is now known as cary.
[21:58] Tango42_: Somebody killed my net connection... that doesn't usually happen
[21:58] cary: I blame skenmy
[21:58] skenmy: ssssssh
[21:58] skenmy: or he'll cotton on
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[22:00] geniice: ah the copyright confence
[22:01] Jarry1250: mm?
[22:02] Tango42: mpeel: I think we need to get used to the fact that the board can't approve every single thing. Sooner or later, you have to just give people a budget and let them spend it.
[22:02] geniice: when the budget is larger perhaps
[22:02] AndrewRT:    
[22:02] geniice: Jarry1250 what they are talking about. I would have gone myself but busy
[22:02] mpeel: Tango42: true, but we're not there yet. 
[22:02] Tango42: geniice: I don't understand
[22:03] Tango42: If you keep saying that, we'll never get there
[22:03] Tango42: You have to take the plunge
[22:03] skenmy: But now is not the time to take the plunge 
[22:03] Tango42: Why not?
[22:03] Tango42: The funds can't be spent on anything else
[22:03] geniice: Tango42 you take the plunge when board aproval is slowing things down to much or you have too much money for the board to cordinate. Right now neither an an issue
[22:04] AndrewRT: sorry, do what? we've just agreed to delegate the budget to seddon??
[22:04] Tango42: no, you've agreed for seddon to make recommendations to the board
[22:04] Tango42: people want the board to still make a final decision
[22:05] geniice: which is a reasonable aproach for the time being
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[22:07] Tango42: if the board were better at rubber stamping things rather than wanting to discuss the intricate details of everything, I would agree with you, but that isn't the case
[22:07] geniice: they are good enough at allowing things through at the momenyt
[22:07] geniice: when they have more money we can reconsider
[22:08] Tango42: mpeel: What about emergencies - if the money is needed less than 24 hours after discovering the conference - we've found out about conferences rather late before
[22:09] geniice: realisticaly getting someone to the confence would be too big an obstical in that case to worry about costs
[22:09] Tango42: I'm assuming the person that finds out about the conference is volunteering to go
[22:10] Tango42: (and has a ticket)
[22:10] cary:    
[22:10] mpeel: Tango42: it can always be approved retrospectively, no?
[22:10] Tango42: What happens if it is rejected?
[22:11] mpeel: then we're in interesting times? 
[22:11] Tango42: Not a good plan...
[22:11] Jarry1250: cary: did you see that stuff about the semantic medical database thing?
[22:11] Tango42: I propose this: Seddon may spend money of travel and tickets for conferences up to £50 at a time as long as there is money left in the budget, if it will cost more than £50 he needs board approval.
[22:11] geniice: Tango42 however it's how most expensis systems work
[22:12] Tango42: Yes, but we're not talking about Seddon's expenses, we're talking about someone else's expenses that Seddon has approved and are then being revoked. Who pays then? Seddon or the person going?
[22:13] mpeel: Tango42: I wasn't distinguishing between Seddon's approval and the board's approval in my last comment
[22:13] Tango42: I don't see much point in "if no-one objects in X time" policies - you are making decisions based on people not checking their emails. Board approval means a board resolution at a meeting or in writing.
[22:13] Tango42: It wouldn't get to the board if Seddon hadn't approved it
[22:14] Tango42: How about you action Seddon to read these logs and then draft a resolution for the next meeting?
[22:14] Tango42: (He will probably want to consult people while drafting it)
[22:15] Tango42: This time limitation issue is why I think you need to delegate more - there isn't time to discuss everything with the whole board
[22:16] geniice: hmm is there a list of materials needed for the school project?
[22:17] • Jarry1250 has to go
[22:17] Tango42: mpeel:I know, but Zeyi seemed to think it was modded
[22:18] Jarry1250: See t'all
[22:18] Jarry1250: *y'all
[22:18] skenmy: o/
[22:18] AndrewRT: by jarry
[22:18] mpeel: g'night Jarry1250
[22:18] Jarry1250: Good night
[22:18] Tango42: bye
[22:18] Jarry1250 left the chat room. ("UK? [[User:Jarry1250/P]]")
[22:23] Colds7ream: Right folks, I'm gonna take my leave - speak to you soon!
[22:23] Tango42: next step: get several quotes
[22:23] Tango42: byebye
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[22:23] AndrewRT: by CS
[22:23] AndrewRT: thanks for coming
[22:24] AndrewRT: Tango42: from whom for what?
[22:25] Tango42: from various suppliers for whatever seems like a good idea - t-shirts, polo shirts, baseball caps, bags, whatever they well
[22:25] Tango42: once we have prices, we can work out what we want
[22:26] Tango42: *whatever they sell
[22:27] Tango42: I suggest we put a small WMUK logo on the back of all clothes at the top, for consistency. (They might have the logo elsewhere too if it is a WMUK t-shirt)
[22:27] AndrewRT: small = how large?
[22:30] Tango42: 15mm square?
[22:30] Tango42: like you often get the brand of the seller on the back of t-shirts
[22:31] AndrewRT: yeah i c
[22:32] Tango42: giving away free is a good way to deal with surplus stock
[22:32] Tango42: surplus t-shirts make good prizes for competitions at meetups/conferences and things
[22:34] Tango42: you need quotes before you ask for orders...
[22:34] cary: No matter how ugly the t-shirt design, they always wind up going
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[22:35] AndrewRT: yep, I'll get price agreed first
[22:35] Tango42: I suggest getting quotes from both on-demand and bulk sellers
[22:36] AndrewRT: will do - any names i can look at?
[22:37] Tango42: um... yes, I had a contact for t-shirts for our failed wikimania bid. I will dig it out and email you
[22:38] AndrewRT: ah excellent thanks
[22:46] • Tango42 laughs at AndrewRT
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[22:46] cary: why are we laughing at AndrewRT
[22:47] Tango42: he forgot to actually send the email he wrote to the board
[22:47] Tango42: aren't you following the board channel?
[22:47] AndrewRT: I haven't finished it either!
[22:47] cary: ah
[22:47] cary: not particularly
[22:49] Tango42: We need to get people on radio and hopefully TV giving interviews - that gets more notice than a few blog posts
[22:49] mpeel: Tango42: I suspect that's unrealistic
[22:49] Tango42: Why?
[22:50] Tango42: We've done plenty of interviews before
[22:50] mpeel: doing a fundraising doesn't get attention to that degree
[22:50] Tango42: We are Wikipedia - that is worth of attention
[22:50] mpeel: controversies, like we've been responding to, do get attention
[22:50] Tango42: I'm not expecting journalists to come to us, we need to go to them
[22:50] mpeel: but without some key element that gets people's attention (and I'm not convinced "give us money" is one), then I don't think journalists will pay attention.
[22:51] Tango42: We discuss what we're going to spend money on
[22:51] geniice: journalists say you not twitter you yeasterdays news sod off
[22:51] Tango42: You focus primarily on the planned iniatives
[22:51] mpeel: good point Tango42